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View Full Version : Sandy goes on DL, Burke called up; Alex Escobar claimed


habibharu
08-17-2004, 04:41 PM
alomar goes on DL with a sore groin. jamie burke gets called up

bafiarocks03
08-17-2004, 04:43 PM
YAH...JAMIE BURKE!!! poor Sandy!!

thepaulbowski
08-17-2004, 04:47 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040817soxmoves,1,3865821.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

maurice
08-17-2004, 04:48 PM
alomar goes on DL
Alomar to the DL? Shocking!

Thanks for the scoop. :gulp:

habibharu
08-17-2004, 04:48 PM
pretty good move! escobar is only 25 and has some talent

JRIG
08-17-2004, 04:50 PM
pretty good move! this guy is only 25 and has some talent
No, he has some tools. Joe Borchard has tools too.

habibharu
08-17-2004, 04:56 PM
No, he has some tools. Joe Borchard has tools too.yeah, but this guy has some speed and is pretty good at defense. he might make a good utility player

Palehose13
08-17-2004, 05:07 PM
yeah, but this guy has some speed and is pretty good at defense. he might make a good utility player
I got tools too! :D:

Randar68
08-17-2004, 05:10 PM
I got tools too! :D:
No, no, no... There's a difference between "having" tools and "being" a tool...

:D: :D: :D: :D:

jabrch
08-17-2004, 05:17 PM
Per Rotoworld.com

White Sox claimed outfielder Alex Escobar off release waivers from the Indians and placed him on the 60-day disabled list with a navicular fracture in his right foot.
This gives the White Sox another candidate to take over in right field next year if Magglio Ordonez leaves. Not an especially good one, though. Ordonez will miss the rest of this season with his foot injury. Aug. 17 - 5:12 pm et


This looks like a no-lose option. Escobar was very highly rated in the Mets organization before going to Cleveland. If we can get him together....

Ok - so its likely to be a non-factor. But there is no downside and a good bit of upside in it. Me Likey!

Rocky Soprano
08-17-2004, 05:19 PM
Has it been confirmed that Maggs will not be back at all this year?

I know it was confirmed Frank would not be back, but I must of missed the announcement about Maggs.

jabrch
08-17-2004, 05:21 PM
Has it been confirmed that Maggs will not be back at all this year?

I know it was confirmed Frank would not be back, but I must of missed the announcement about Maggs.
Nothing confirmed yet - but highly doubtful he returns.

Rocky Soprano
08-17-2004, 05:23 PM
Nothing confirmed yet - but highly doubtful he returns.
Yeah that's what I thought. Thanks.

Chez
08-17-2004, 05:28 PM
Per Rotoworld.com

This looks like a no-lose option. Escobar was very highly rated in the Mets organization before going to Cleveland. If we can get him together....

Ok - so its likely to be a non-factor. But there is no downside and a good bit of upside in it. Me Likey!
I agree. When I saw that Cleveland released him to clear room for Josh Phelps, I was hoping KW would pick him up. He was touted as one of the best prospects in the game before he broke his leg.

jabrch
08-17-2004, 05:28 PM
Davis will have plenty of PT for the rest of the season!

StillMissOzzie
08-17-2004, 05:44 PM
alomar goes on DL with a sore groin. jamie burke gets called up
Bad for Alomar, but conveniently, he'll come off the DL when the rosters can expand, so Burke will be around for the rest of the year.

SMO
:gulp:

Kogs35
08-17-2004, 05:45 PM
does this move now shore up pk getting traded, and moving carlos to first and frank as dh and have carlos go back to left and frank at 1st when we r in the nl parks? speaking of interleague for next year the denver post has confermation that we will be playing rockies but they dont know where yet

thezeker
08-17-2004, 05:48 PM
Bad for Alomar, but conveniently, he'll come off the DL when the rosters can expand, so Burke will be around for the rest of the year.

SMO
:gulp:
I think Burke & Davis should have been our catchers all along.

Davis hits righties well and Burke seems to excel against lefties.

They both also can throw out baserunners. This injury to Alomar may turn out to be a real blessing for this team!!!

Jjav829
08-17-2004, 05:49 PM
does this move now shore up pk getting traded, and moving carlos to first and frank as dh and have carlos go back to left and frank at 1st when we r in the nl parks? speaking of interleague for next year the denver post has confermation that we will be playing rockies but they dont know where yetHow does this move have anything to do with PK getting traded and Carlos moving to 1st base? If anything, Escobar is a candidate to compete for an outfield spot next. :dunno:

hold2dibber
08-17-2004, 05:51 PM
does this move now shore up pk getting traded, and moving carlos to first and frank as dh and have carlos go back to left and frank at 1st when we r in the nl parks?
Uh, no.

the_valenstache
08-17-2004, 06:01 PM
This injury to Alomar may turn out to be a real blessing for this team!!!

Championing an injury to a veteran player on your own team? That's classless. Especially to a guy like Sandy who has the mind of a manager and is probably directly responsible for the growth of Ben Davis AND Jamie Burke. Whether or not he shows up in the box score, I've always appreciated having Sandy on our team. Injuries are never blessings. If you can't figure that out, then you haven't been watching this team at all this year.

Chez
08-17-2004, 06:06 PM
Championing an injury to a veteran player on your own team? That's classless. Especially to a guy like Sandy who has the mind of a manager and is probably directly responsible for the growth of Ben Davis AND Jamie Burke. Whether or not he shows up in the box score, I've always appreciated having Sandy on our team. Injuries are never blessings. If you can't figure that out, then you haven't been watching this team at all this year.
"Injuries are never blessings." Wasn't it Wally Pipp who first said that?

Randar68
08-17-2004, 06:25 PM
Championing an injury to a veteran player on your own team? That's classless. Especially to a guy like Sandy who has the mind of a manager and is probably directly responsible for the growth of Ben Davis AND Jamie Burke. Whether or not he shows up in the box score, I've always appreciated having Sandy on our team. Injuries are never blessings. If you can't figure that out, then you haven't been watching this team at all this year.
Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't even try.

minastirith67
08-17-2004, 06:59 PM
No, no, no... There's a difference between "having" tools and "being" a tool...

:D: :D: :D: :D:
Well said.:roflmao::roflmao:

guillen4life13
08-17-2004, 07:55 PM
Just wanted to let those who didn't know this, know this.

How good is his upside? Isn't he the one who was traded for Robbie Alomar back in '02?

Is this a good thing, and does he have the stuff to be at least average at the ML level, if not above average? He's already 25 years old.

Randar68
08-17-2004, 07:58 PM
Just wanted to let those who didn't know this, know this.

How good is his upside? Isn't he the one who was traded for Robbie Alomar back in '02?

Is this a good thing, and does he have the stuff to be at least average at the ML level, if not above average? He's already 25 years old.
Edit: I guess it got moved, but still. People still haven't learned to read. When a roster move is made, folks, you can bet if it's 5 minutes old, there's already a thread...

guillen4life13
08-17-2004, 08:06 PM
Edit: I guess it got moved, but still. People still haven't learned to read. When a roster move is made, folks, you can bet if it's 5 minutes old, there's already a thread...
Sorry. I made a mistake. Chill out.

Randar68
08-17-2004, 08:08 PM
Sorry. I made a mistake. Chill out.
It happens over and over and over. It's to the point where no distinction is possible between repeat offenders and "mistakes."

guillen4life13
08-17-2004, 09:44 PM
It happens over and over and over. It's to the point where no distinction is possible between repeat offenders and "mistakes."
Well as far as I know, this is the first time I've done it. Sorry. I'll try not to do it again.

Cubbiesuck13
08-17-2004, 10:14 PM
Well as far as I know, this is the first time I've done it. Sorry. I'll try not to do it again.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, some people get all anal over silly stuff.

gobears1987
08-17-2004, 10:15 PM
I think Burke & Davis should have been our catchers all along.

Davis hits righties well and Burke seems to excel against lefties.

They both also can throw out baserunners. This injury to Alomar may turn out to be a real blessing for this team!!!
Say that to Alomar's wife!!!

guillen4life13
08-18-2004, 12:52 AM
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, some people get all anal over silly stuff.
Yeah. You're right.

Randar68
08-18-2004, 01:29 AM
Well as far as I know, this is the first time I've done it. Sorry. I'll try not to do it again.One time is too many. With a few thousand members, nobody gets special "well I only did it once" treatment. Especially when you've been here a while and the thread with the topic in the title of it is only a couple of threads down.

Common courtesy is less and less common.

Aidan
08-18-2004, 01:37 AM
Just wanted to let those who didn't know this, know this.

How good is his upside? Isn't he the one who was traded for Robbie Alomar back in '02?

Is this a good thing, and does he have the stuff to be at least average at the ML level, if not above average? He's already 25 years old.Escobar was a top center fielder prospect in the Mets organization a few years back. He is supposed to be quick and have a great arm. His problem is that he keeps getting injured year after year. I was excited when I saw that we picked him up on the "Minor League Report" at tonight's game. I also saw that we have Carlos H. Lee in Single A. He is Carlos Lee's brother and he is a pitcher. :tongue:

Randar68
08-18-2004, 01:46 AM
Escobar was a top center fielder prospect in the Mets organization a few years back. He is supposed to be quick and have a great arm. His problem is that he keeps getting injured year after year. I was excited when I saw that we picked him up on the "Minor League Report" at tonight's game. I also saw that we have Carlos H. Lee in Single A. He is Carlos Lee's brother and he is a pitcher. :tongue:
Carlos Lee's brother is a catcher.

Aidan
08-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Carlos Lee's brother is a catcher.Oh, you're right. I stand corrected.

thezeker
08-18-2004, 01:59 AM
Say that to Alomar's wife!!!
Excuse me. I thought we were trying to win. I did no know we were carrying players because they were really great teammates or because some day they will be a coach for us.

The two best catchers in this organization are Davis and Burke. I believe they give us the best chance to win. Alomar should have been made a coach and taken off the roster before the injury happened. Sending down a guy who at this point is a superior hitter to Alomar and better at throwing out baserunners made no sense.

I have all the respect in the world for Alomar but I truly believe he is # 3 of our three catchers. I did not wish for his injury but the fact is that it did happen and Burke and Davis are a superior tandem. Please don't read other meanings into my words.

Randar68
08-18-2004, 02:10 AM
Excuse me. I thought we were trying to win. I did no know we were carrying players because they were really great teammates or because some day they will be a coach for us.

The two best catchers in this organization are Davis and Burke. I believe they give us the best chance to win. Alomar should have been made a coach and taken off the roster before the injury happened. Sending down a guy who at this point is a superior hitter to Alomar and better at throwing out baserunners made no sense.

I have all the respect in the world for Alomar but I truly believe he is # 3 of our three catchers. I did not wish for his injury but the fact is that it did happen and Burke and Davis are a superior tandem. Please don't read other meanings into my words.
Burke was hitting in the VERY low .200's in many more AAA AB's than he received in his few sparse AB's in the majors... At 32 years old, are you expecting a career mid-.200's AAA hitter to be a competent regular in the majors?

StillMissOzzie
08-18-2004, 03:01 AM
I also saw that we have Carlos H. Lee in Single A. He is Carlos Lee's brother and he is a pitcher. :tongue:
OT, but Carlos Lee's brother is also named Carlos Lee? Why didn't Mama Lee name them both Darryl?

SMO
:redneck

Aidan
08-18-2004, 03:49 AM
OT, but Carlos Lee's brother is also named Carlos Lee? Why didn't Mama Lee name them both Darryl?

SMO
:redneckYep, his name is also Carlos Lee and he plays catcher for the Kannapolis Intimidators (White Sox Single A)...

http://milb.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=milb-intimidators&page=milb-sa/teams/L31/roster.aspx?team=L31

He is currently hitting .357 (18 for 51) with 3 homers and 12 RBIs. Hopefully, he will hit like his big brother!


Oh yeah, according to Baseball America (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/leagues/mlb/mets/index.html), Alex Escobar was rated the Mets top prospect for 3 years straight (1999, 2000, and 2001). Before all of his injuries, Escobar was once considered to be a 5-tool player in center field. He can play all three outfield positions, has a good arm, some speed, and some power. He was projected to hit around 30 home runs a season. He also strikes out more than he walks. I could definately see this guy making the roster next season as a fourth outfielder. This was definately a no risk/high rewards signing. If Maggs leaves, we may need this guy to play some RF next season.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040817&content_id=830281&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp
The Venezuelan native is a career .280 (546-1,947) hitter with 82 home runs and 326 RBI in 542 minor-league games. Escobar was named to the Class AAA All-Star Team in 2003 and finished second in the International League with 24 home runs. He was also tabbed by Baseball America in 2001 as the No.1 prospect in the Mets organization and the 18th best prospect overall.

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:53 AM
No, he has some tools. Joe Borchard has tools too.
What scares me is when KW says: 'We've been after this guy for quite som time.'

Great. He's also said that about Schoenweis andI think Loaiza.


Bob

samram
08-18-2004, 08:57 AM
What scares me is when KW says: 'We've been after this guy for quite som time.'

Great. He's also said that about Schoenweis andI think Loaiza.


Bob
He definitely said it about Contreras, and Lidle and Meche are two other guys for whom he yearns.

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:59 AM
Burke was hitting in the VERY low .200's in many more AAA AB's than he received in his few sparse AB's in the majors... At 32 years old, are you expecting a career mid-.200's AAA hitter to be a competent regular in the majors?

Funny, I said the same thinga few months ago when Magglio first went down with an injury. I posted that it was stupid to call up Burke an carry 3 catchers when a good hitting OFer was needed after there was an article that hit whitesox.com saying Burke was going to be called up. Even though the move wasn't official and I was speaking out about it I remember you cursing at me and insulting me. Even though I metnioned the exact same thing you did above.

If I remember correctly, you were the one who made a comment about common courtesy a few threads above. Ironic.:redneck


Bob

JRIG
08-18-2004, 10:07 AM
What scares me is when KW says: 'We've been after this guy for quite som time.'

Great. He's also said that about Schoenweis andI think Loaiza.


BobCaptain's Log, Stardate 2011:

White Sox aquire 1st baseman Darin Erstad

The Chicago White Sox, languishing in 2nd place in the A.L. Central behind the Kansas City Royals, made a move to add to their lineup today, aquiring 37-year-old Darin Erstad off waivers from the Anaheim Angels.

"I've got one word for you...1917," said White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams. "I want to win now and Darin Erstad is the type of grinder who can lead us to a pennant. We've been after this guy for quite some time."

Erstad had been benched the past few weeks after batting only .147 through the first three months of the season. He has yet to have an extra-base-hit.

Williams, who has yet to win a division championship as GM, says the Sox finally have the lineup they want.

"Roberto Alomar may look old out there at second base, but even at 43 he can lay down a bunt and do the little things better than anyone I ever played against," Williams said. "Sandy Alomar may only catch once a month, but he's still on the active roster and provides great veteran leadership."

The White Sox have had trouble scoring runs recently, but Williams thinks the move will solve that problem.

"There's few teams that can match a heart of the order like Erstad, Borchard, and Escobar," Williams said. "No, neither Borchard or Escobar have hit more than .200 in a full season in the big leagues yet, and neither has walked since 2008, but these guys have all the tools in the world. And when they finally put it together, we're going to be a force."

Instead of the $50,000 waiver claim, the Sox have agreed to send top prospect Jason Wind to the Angels. Wind, hitting .333 with an OBP of .452 at AAA Charlotte, was made expendable by the outfield depth the Sox have in the minors, Willams said.

"We still think Ryan Sweeney is going to turn things around in AA ball," said Williams. "And we just drafted a few guys who look great in jeans. We'll be just fine."

Randar68
08-18-2004, 11:10 AM
Funny, I said the same thinga few months ago when Magglio first went down with an injury. I posted that it was stupid to call up Burke an carry 3 catchers when a good hitting OFer was needed after there was an article that hit whitesox.com saying Burke was going to be called up. Even though the move wasn't official and I was speaking out about it I remember you cursing at me and insulting me. Even though I metnioned the exact same thing you did above.

If I remember correctly, you were the one who made a comment about common courtesy a few threads above. Ironic.:redneck


Bob
What I dressed you down about was your desire for another LH arm and another OF'er when the Sox had exhausted any supply of either that was anywhere near ready to be in the majors. With Sandy only able to catch a game a week all year, it almost dictates carrying 3 catchers. At the time, Frank was healthy and Burke was a fine addition in terms of defense and handling the pitching staff. He still is, but people have to be realistic and look at the career minor league numbers of this 32 year-old journeyman catcher and know he's nowhere near the .300+ hitter he has been in his short stint.

nodiggity59
08-18-2004, 11:51 AM
Captain's Log, Stardate 2011:

White Sox aquire 1st baseman Darin Erstad

The Chicago White Sox, languishing in 2nd place in the A.L. Central behind the Kansas City Royals, made a move to ass to their lineup today, aquiring 37-year-old Darin Erstad off waivers from the Anaheim Angels.

"I've got one word for you...1917," said White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams. "I want to win now and Darin Erstad is the type of grinder who can lead us to a pennant. We've been after this guy for quite some time."

Erstad had been benched the past few weeks after batting only .147 through the first three months of the season. He has yet to have an extra-base-hit.

Williams, who has yet to win a division championship as GM, says the Sox finally have the lineup they want.

"Roberto Alomar may look old out there at second base, but even at 43 he can lay down a bunt and do the little things better than anyone I ever played against," Williams said. "Sandy Alomar may only catch once a month, but he's still on the active roster and provides great veteran leadership."

The White Sox have had trouble scoring runs recently, but Williams thinks the move will solve that problem.

"There's few teams that can match a heart of the order like Erstad, Borchard, and Escobar," Williams said. "No, neither Borchard or Escobar have hit more than .200 in a full season in the big leagues yet, and neither has walked since 2008, but these guys have all the tools in the world. And when they finally put it together, we're going to be a force."

Instead of the $50,000 waiver claim, the Sox have agreed to send top prospect Jason Wind to the Angels. Wind, hitting .333 with an OBP of .452 at AAA Charlotte, was made expendable by the outfield depth the Sox have in the minors, Willams said.

"We still think Ryan Sweeney is going to turn things around in AA ball," said Williams. "And we just drafted a few guys who look great in jeans. We'll be just fine."
POTY:D: :D: :D:

gosox41
08-18-2004, 11:56 AM
Captain's Log, Stardate 2011:

White Sox aquire 1st baseman Darin Erstad

The Chicago White Sox, languishing in 2nd place in the A.L. Central behind the Kansas City Royals, made a move to ass to their lineup today, aquiring 37-year-old Darin Erstad off waivers from the Anaheim Angels.

"I've got one word for you...1917," said White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams. "I want to win now and Darin Erstad is the type of grinder who can lead us to a pennant. We've been after this guy for quite some time."

Erstad had been benched the past few weeks after batting only .147 through the first three months of the season. He has yet to have an extra-base-hit.

Williams, who has yet to win a division championship as GM, says the Sox finally have the lineup they want.

"Roberto Alomar may look old out there at second base, but even at 43 he can lay down a bunt and do the little things better than anyone I ever played against," Williams said. "Sandy Alomar may only catch once a month, but he's still on the active roster and provides great veteran leadership."

The White Sox have had trouble scoring runs recently, but Williams thinks the move will solve that problem.

"There's few teams that can match a heart of the order like Erstad, Borchard, and Escobar," Williams said. "No, neither Borchard or Escobar have hit more than .200 in a full season in the big leagues yet, and neither has walked since 2008, but these guys have all the tools in the world. And when they finally put it together, we're going to be a force."

Instead of the $50,000 waiver claim, the Sox have agreed to send top prospect Jason Wind to the Angels. Wind, hitting .333 with an OBP of .452 at AAA Charlotte, was made expendable by the outfield depth the Sox have in the minors, Willams said.

"We still think Ryan Sweeney is going to turn things around in AA ball," said Williams. "And we just drafted a few guys who look great in jeans. We'll be just fine."

That's funny.


Bob

gosox41
08-18-2004, 11:59 AM
What I dressed you down about was your desire for another LH arm and another OF'er when the Sox had exhausted any supply of either that was anywhere near ready to be in the majors. With Sandy only able to catch a game a week all year, it almost dictates carrying 3 catchers. At the time, Frank was healthy and Burke was a fine addition in terms of defense and handling the pitching staff. He still is, but people have to be realistic and look at the career minor league numbers of this 32 year-old journeyman catcher and know he's nowhere near the .300+ hitter he has been in his short stint.
I don't remember anything about a left handed arm. I do remember wanting Borchard or Reed called up (at the time Reed was still in the Sox system.)

I thought then and still think now that Sandy is a great guy to have around but a waste of a roster spot. When a star hitter goes down a move should be made to make up for that loss. Adding a second non-hitting catcher doesn't do that then. If anythng Alomar should be released or made a coach or whatever. He is taking up a valuable roster spot. How many guys on this team do we need that can't get on base consistently?


Bob

Randar68
08-18-2004, 12:20 PM
I don't remember anything about a left handed arm. I do remember wanting Borchard or Reed called up (at the time Reed was still in the Sox system.)

I thought then and still think now that Sandy is a great guy to have around but a waste of a roster spot. When a star hitter goes down a move should be made to make up for that loss. Adding a second non-hitting catcher doesn't do that then. If anythng Alomar should be released or made a coach or whatever. He is taking up a valuable roster spot. How many guys on this team do we need that can't get on base consistently?


Bob
That has been a problem since the 2000 team, not getting on-base, etc etc. IMO, Frank is a far more crucial part of this offense than Maggs was, and his loss hurts more. His pure presence and his ability to get on-base made the offense click. However, nobody the Sox have or had was ready to move in to that position, add in the holes in the pitching staff and elsewhere, and you can only make so many mid-season trades...

HebrewHammer
08-18-2004, 12:34 PM
This could be Kenny's latest "off the scrap heap" move, I like Escobar for our bench, I don't think he's durable enough to play a full season in a starting role, if he's healthy I'd rather see him off the bench than Timo or LTP.

maurice
08-18-2004, 01:19 PM
Why would anybody want to remind WSI that they wanted Borchard promoted over Burke?

Borchard's MLB performance in 2004: .190 AVE, .271 OBP, .286 SLG
Burke's MLB performance in 2004: .356 AVE, .377 OBP, .458 SLG

Given an extended look, there's an excellent chance that neither of them bats better than .260. That's why they're both bench players and should remain so next season.

gosox41
08-18-2004, 01:38 PM
Why would anybody want to remind WSI that they wanted Borchard promoted over Burke?

Borchard's MLB performance in 2004: .190 AVE, .271 OBP, .286 SLG
Burke's MLB performance in 2004: .356 AVE, .377 OBP, .458 SLG

Given an extended look, there's an excellent chance that neither of them bats better than .260. That's why they're both bench players and should remain so next season.
I think Borchard has more potential then Burke. To be honest, I didn't think Borchard would struggle this much, though it would help if he were playing everyday.

But I try to stick by what I say. If I like a certain move over another one, I'll take the heat if I'm wrong and wanted it pointed out when I'm right. Anyone can be a Monday morning QB and tell you after the fact.


Bob

balke
08-18-2004, 04:26 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040709&content_id=793789&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

All leg and foot related, that's not good. I guess we don't need to try and get Ken Griffey Jr. now...

STill a good move by kenny, hope this kid can make it through a season.