PDA

View Full Version : The Sox-Seattle rumors


Mohoney
08-17-2004, 02:08 PM
The rumors surrounding a potential trade between the Sox and Mariners have really died down since last Thursday. Was Meche really a target of ours, or was Bruce Levine blowing smoke again?

I still think we could use Meche in order to keep from having to go to a 4 man rotation. I know a lot of people like the idea of a 4 man rotation, and I would certainly agree that it is a major upgrade from trotting out a 5th starter from within our organization. But if Seattle is willing to part with Meche at a reasonable cost, we are better off acquiring him and putting him in the 5th starter slot.

The guy is only 25, and we would retain his rights through 2006 unless we declined to offer arbitration. Therefore, acquiring him would not be a rent-a-player move. We would be getting a legitimate return on our investment with Meche pitching the rest of this year's stretch run and full seasons in 2005 and 2006 at the very least. It justifies further depleting the farm to grab this guy.

habibharu
08-17-2004, 02:09 PM
The rumors surrounding a potential trade between the Sox and Mariners have really died down since last Thursday. Was Meche really a target of ours, or was Bruce Levine blowing smoke again?

I still think we could use Meche in order to keep from having to go to a 4 man rotation. I know a lot of people like the idea of a 4 man rotation, and I would certainly agree that it is a major upgrade from trotting out a 5th starter from within our organization. But if Seattle is willing to part with Meche at a reasonable cost, we are better off acquiring him and putting him in the 5th starter slot.

The guy is only 25, and we would retain his rights through 2006 unless we declined to offer arbitration. Therefore, acquiring him would not be a rent-a-player move. We would be getting a legitimate return on our investment with Meche pitching the rest of this year's stretch run and full seasons in 2005 and 2006 at the very least. It justifies further depleting the farm to grab this guy. yeah, he looks like a pretty good SP. he just made a good start against the yanks

inta
08-17-2004, 02:14 PM
what could we give up though for him?

i could be wrong, but i thought i had heard that the M's have one of the better farm systems (why they've remained competitive even after losing arod, griffey, etc), and that they have deeper claws in the japanese leagues than any other team in the US....

habibharu
08-17-2004, 02:15 PM
what could we give up though for him?

i could be wrong, but i thought i had heard that the M's have one of the better farm systems (why they've remained competitive even after losing arod, griffey, etc), and that they have deeper claws in the japanese leagues than any other team in the US....crede

Palehose13
08-17-2004, 02:17 PM
crede
Sooooo...could his "boo-boo" have anything to do with it? Has anyone heard anything about it lately? Is he still day to day or will he be playing again soon?

balke
08-17-2004, 02:25 PM
Seattle wanted Lee in the Garcia trade from what I heard. I bet they are still after him. They wanted Borchard too. I doubt a trade is made. I think Kenny will be looking for the other big name pitchers in the offseason people have been mentioning.

habibharu
08-17-2004, 02:27 PM
Seattle wanted Lee in the Garcia trade from what I heard. I bet they are still after him. They wanted Borchard too. I doubt a trade is made. I think Kenny will be looking for the other big name pitchers in the offseason people have been mentioning. where did you hear that they wanted lee? they orginally wanted crede and olivo, but KW convinced them to take reed instead of crede

hold2dibber
08-17-2004, 02:30 PM
The rumors surrounding a potential trade between the Sox and Mariners have really died down since last Thursday. Was Meche really a target of ours, or was Bruce Levine blowing smoke again?.
I think I'll go with (B).

I still think we could use Meche in order to keep from having to go to a 4 man rotation. I know a lot of people like the idea of a 4 man rotation, and I would certainly agree that it is a major upgrade from trotting out a 5th starter from within our organization. But if Seattle is willing to part with Meche at a reasonable cost, we are better off acquiring him and putting him in the 5th starter slot.

The guy is only 25, and we would retain his rights through 2006 unless we declined to offer arbitration. Therefore, acquiring him would not be a rent-a-player move. We would be getting a legitimate return on our investment with Meche pitching the rest of this year's stretch run and full seasons in 2005 and 2006 at the very least. It justifies further depleting the farm to grab this guy.
I agree - Meche is a guy with a lot of upside; assuming he wouldn't cost too much, I'd love to see the Sox give him a shot.

Mohoney
08-17-2004, 02:33 PM
Seattle wanted Lee in the Garcia trade from what I heard. I bet they are still after him. They wanted Borchard too. I doubt a trade is made. I think Kenny will be looking for the other big name pitchers in the offseason people have been mentioning.

Just keep Magglio and get Gil Meche. A big name pitcher would be nice, but I would consider Buehrle and Garcia big enough names already. I would rather have a deep starting rotation with 5 competent starters than a top-heavy rotation and a 5th starter merry-go-round.

Add Gil Meche, insert Magglio and Frank back into this lineup, and 2005 looks very promising.

By the way, I would be more than willing to give Crede up for Meche. When it comes down to choosing between a question mark young pitcher and a question mark young 3rd baseman, you have to take the pitcher. A servicable 3rd baseman can be obtained a lot cheaper via free agency than a servicable starting pitcher.

Rocky Soprano
08-17-2004, 02:47 PM
Just keep Magglio and get Gil Meche. A big name pitcher would be nice, but I would consider Buehrle and Garcia big enough names already. I would rather have a deep starting rotation with 5 competent starters than a top-heavy rotation and a 5th starter merry-go-round.

Add Gil Meche, insert Magglio and Frank back into this lineup, and 2005 looks very promising.

By the way, I would be more than willing to give Crede up for Meche. When it comes down to choosing between a question mark young pitcher and a question mark young 3rd baseman, you have to take the pitcher. A servicable 3rd baseman can be obtained a lot cheaper via free agency than a servicable starting pitcher.
I totally agree. Keep Maggs, Keep Frank, get rid of Valentin and trade Crede for Meche. Sign some bullpen help, sign a solid SS, put Uribe at 3rd.

balke
08-17-2004, 02:52 PM
where did you hear that they wanted lee? they orginally wanted crede and olivo, but KW convinced them to take reed instead of crede
I actually think I heard that on ESPN, when GAmmons was analyzing the trade. Lee has been trade bait for about the past 2 seasons, but KW always seems to bait and switch him.


Just keep Magglio and get Gil Meche. A big name pitcher would be nice, but I would consider Buehrle and Garcia big enough names already. I would rather have a deep starting rotation with 5 competent starters than a top-heavy rotation and a 5th starter merry-go-round.

Add Gil Meche, insert Magglio and Frank back into this lineup, and 2005 looks very promising.

By the way, I would be more than willing to give Crede up for Meche. When it comes down to choosing between a question mark young pitcher and a question mark young 3rd baseman, you have to take the pitcher. A servicable 3rd baseman can be obtained a lot cheaper via free agency than a servicable starting pitcher.
To each his own. This team is going to shift around a lot next season. I think Maggs is gone personally, we can do a lot with 15 mil.

And if Meche and Garland are going to be our 4 and 5 "potentially" good starters... I feel less safe. I'd rather have a Pavano or Benson or anyone else that's shown consistency. I'm not talking Mussina or Clemens type names here. But I haven't even seen Meche pitch, so I should shut my trap, he might be that kind of pitcher.

I'm sticking with Crede's crew. With a Konerko style slump, he's still about the 10th best 3B in the majors. 3B are harder to acquire than you think. and if someone says "Look no further than Uribe". That's fine, we'll still need a SS and a 2B... Those'll be tough holes to fill (if Valentin is gone like I'm praying for).

DVsoxfan
08-17-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
Just keep Magglio and get Gil Meche. A big name pitcher would be nice, but I would consider Buehrle and Garcia big enough names already. I would rather have a deep starting rotation with 5 competent starters than a top-heavy rotation and a 5th starter merry-go-round
Meche has been inconsistent, but not as much as our 5th starters.There wouldn't be a 5th starter marry-go-round. If you sign a Pavano type then our rotation is Buerhle, Garcia, Pavano type, Contreras, and Garland. There's no questions about that rotation. Those starters look pretty competent if you ask me.

Brian26
08-17-2004, 03:05 PM
I think I'll go with (B) (refering to Levine blowing smoke).


Actually, Bruce reported KW's interest in Gil Meche as far back as early June, at the same time he reported KW's interest in Contreras. This was back when we still had Koch and Shingo hadn't really discovered himself yet, so there was talk of making Contreras our closer. After the Garcia trade, Levine once again reported that Meche was the original target of KW's (but I believe Meche had been sent down to the minors for this stretch, to show you how quickly some things change).

It seems that KW really tends to focus on guys he likes and stays after them for awhile. He's coveted Meche and Contreras for a long time. He's also been after Cory Lidle forever, and I'm surprised we didn't land him before the Phillies.

Soxzilla
08-17-2004, 03:06 PM
I say we go after meche now and utilize him as our 5th starter for next year. That way, barring any sort of injuries, we have our rotation solidified for the next few years, and it's one HELL of a rotation, mind you.

Getting a pavano or clement during the off season is a crap shoot, what's to say they even want to come here with JR's track record of not signing pitchers to long term deals (Garcia and contreras withstanding).

Also if we sign meche, it gets a better opportunity to go after a superstar bat, be it magglio at a CHEEP price, or some other big name talent.

Maybe Nomar?

MisterB
08-17-2004, 03:07 PM
I'm sticking with Crede's crew. With a Konerko style slump, he's still about the 10th best 3B in the majors.
By most measures, the White Sox have had the worst production in the AL out of the 3B position. Take that for what you will.

hold2dibber
08-17-2004, 04:08 PM
I'm sticking with Crede's crew. With a Konerko style slump, he's still about the 10th best 3B in the majors. 3B are harder to acquire than you think. and if someone says "Look no further than Uribe". That's fine, we'll still need a SS and a 2B... Those'll be tough holes to fill (if Valentin is gone like I'm praying for).
As of right now, among 26 MLB 3B who have had enough ABs to qualify for the batting title, Crede is:

25th of 26 in avg.
24th of 26 in OBP
18th of 26 in SLG
23rd of 26 in OPS
16th of 26 in HRs
18th (T) of 26 in RBIs
15th (T) in 2Bs
16th in Rs

While Joe's a good fielder, there's no way he's good enough with the glove to vault him into the top 10 in baseball with those offensive numbers. I think its a bit of a stretch to say he's even top 20.

habibharu
08-17-2004, 04:10 PM
As of right now, among 26 MLB 3B who have had enough ABs to qualify for the batting title, Crede is:

25th of 26 in avg.
24th of 26 in OBP
18th of 26 in SLG
23rd of 26 in OPS
16th of 26 in HRs
18th (T) of 26 in RBIs
15th (T) in 2Bs
16th in Rs

While Joe's a good fielder, there's no way he's good enough with the glove to vault him into the top 10 in baseball with those offensive numbers. I think its a bit of a stretch to say he's even top 20. wow, i knew that joe was pretty ****ty, but did not konw he was that bad! 2nd lowest in avg!!?? pathetic!

nitetrain8601
08-17-2004, 06:21 PM
And if Meche and Garland are going to be our 4 and 5 "potentially" good starters... I feel less safe. I'd rather have a Pavano or Benson or anyone else that's shown consistency. I'm not talking Mussina or Clemens type names here. But I haven't even seen Meche pitch, so I should shut my trap, he might be that kind of pitcher.

I'm sticking with Crede's crew. With a Konerko style slump, he's still about the 10th best 3B in the majors. 3B are harder to acquire than you think. and if someone says "Look no further than Uribe". That's fine, we'll still need a SS and a 2B... Those'll be tough holes to fill (if Valentin is gone like I'm praying for).
The only consistent things about Benson is his consistency not to live up to his billing. Pavano has finally turned things around. Meche is good though. He was arguably Seattle's best pitcher last year. I think some work with Coop and he is better than Garland. I would also like to keep Crede though.

balke
08-18-2004, 02:44 PM
The only consistent things about Benson is his consistency not to live up to his billing. Pavano has finally turned things around. Meche is good though. He was arguably Seattle's best pitcher last year. I think some work with Coop and he is better than Garland. I would also like to keep Crede though.
Benson was a bad example, just a name that gets thrown around a lot on this board, but Pavano or clement a name like that. Heck, maybe Loaiza comes back! heh.

By most measures, the White Sox have had the worst production in the AL out of the 3B position. Take that for what you will.
Okay, i'm wrong. Crede is not the 10th best in the majors. He's only hovering around 10th best in AL. But his worst stats relate to his Batting average. He's got a good swing that looks a lot like pauly's. It has been slow this year, but I really think that average raises next year, and he looks like a completely average Joe next season.

Get rid of Joe, and you weaken an already schiite infield

habibharu
08-18-2004, 02:45 PM
Benson was a bad example, just a name that gets thrown around a lot on this board, but Pavano or clement a name like that. Heck, maybe Loaiza comes back! heh. Have you seen loaiza pitch lately?

Soxzilla
08-18-2004, 02:50 PM
Benson was a bad example, just a name that gets thrown around a lot on this board, but Pavano or clement a name like that. Heck, maybe Loaiza comes back! heh.


Okay, i'm wrong. Crede is not the 10th best in the majors. He's only hovering around 10th best in AL. But his worst stats relate to his Batting average. He's got a good swing that looks a lot like pauly's. It has been slow this year, but I really think that average raises next year, and he looks like a completely average Joe next season.

Get rid of Joe, and you weaken an already schiite infield
Joe crede has the worst swing in baseball.

hawkeyesrule
08-18-2004, 04:09 PM
To summarize, it looks like we should get a pitcher (clement, meche, or pavano), an all-star 3b, re-sign Maggs, get an all-star catcher, dump a clubhouse leader?