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hawkeyesrule
08-17-2004, 08:01 AM
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040816&content_id=829411&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

I think this might be the first interview I've read with him that he didn't say something that absolutely enraged me. Sure, this was a puff piece from whitesox.com, but they didn't entirely avoid many of the things we hate about him.

Opinions?

gosox41
08-17-2004, 08:08 AM
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040816&content_id=829411&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

I think this might be the first interview I've read with him that he didn't say something that absolutely outraged me. Sure, this was a puff piece from whitesox.com, but they didn't entirely avoid many of the things we hate about him.

Opinions?

Good interview. But since he didn't say the things fans here think is true he must by lying.


Bob

Chisox_cali
08-17-2004, 08:36 AM
Lies! All Lies! He hates each and everyone of us, and has a personal vendetta against all! He takes pleasure in ruining your lives individually!!! And we all know this since we all have access to the going on's in his head, and know without a doubt that he doesn't care about the Sox and only wants money!!!



Alright that should take care of it...

Sell Jerry Sell!
08-17-2004, 09:42 AM
What is the biggest misperception about Jerry Reinsdorf? That I'm more interested in money than winning. Our goal is winning, and it's our ultimate goal. Baseball is a passion for me just like it is for our fans. We've never wanted to make money at the White Sox, but at the same time I have a responsibility to our investors that I can't allow the team to lose money. If we can break even, I'm satisfied. But our ultimate goal is a World Series victory.


Shouldn't this have been in pink or teal??

Cubsuck_a_lot
08-17-2004, 09:51 AM
i just feel like if he truly truly TRULY (repeated for effect) wanted this club to win a world series, it would ahve happened, if not won a WS then at least paid a visit to the Big Dance. I understand that it takes the right combo of players and the right understanding of the game to make it all the way, but this guy has hed the power to win a ring for over 20 years and it just seems to me like he does very little to help the advancment of this club interms of giving his ALL to the benefit of the team (white flag trade, supporting the 94 lockout, giving a small payroll to a large market team). You could say that hes done a lot for the re-vamoing of The Cell, but that was US Cellulars money, not his. and i wonder how many of the new parts of the cell were actually his idea. If he really cared about the welfare of the White Sox, we would at the least have ticket stubs from a world series game. I just dont trust him, and even if a Ring was one during his tenure with the Sox, i still wouldnt trust the jackass. hes a business man, not a sports fan

Baby Fisk
08-17-2004, 09:56 AM
Wow. His proudest moment with this team was 21 years ago. Since then it's all been a steaming pile of ****. :angry:

NonetheLoaiza
08-17-2004, 10:11 AM
i just feel like if he truly truly TRULY (repeated for effect) wanted this club to win a world series, it would ahve happened, if not won a WS then at least paid a visit to the Big Dance. I understand that it takes the right combo of players and the right understanding of the game to make it all the way, but this guy has hed the power to win a ring for over 20 years and it just seems to me like he does very little to help the advancment of this club interms of giving his ALL to the benefit of the team (white flag trade, supporting the 94 lockout, giving a small payroll to a large market team). You could say that hes done a lot for the re-vamoing of The Cell, but that was US Cellulars money, not his. and i wonder how many of the new parts of the cell were actually his idea. If he really cared about the welfare of the White Sox, we would at the least have ticket stubs from a world series game. I just dont trust him, and even if a Ring was one during his tenure with the Sox, i still wouldnt trust the jackass. hes a business man, not a sports fan
It is not that easy to just make it to the World Series. Ask the Mets who are still paying Mo Vaughn.

hawkeyesrule
08-17-2004, 10:12 AM
What is the biggest misperception about Jerry Reinsdorf? That I'm more interested in money than winning. Our goal is winning, and it's our ultimate goal. Baseball is a passion for me just like it is for our fans. We've never wanted to make money at the White Sox, but at the same time I have a responsibility to our investors that I can't allow the team to lose money. If we can break even, I'm satisfied. But our ultimate goal is a World Series victory.


Shouldn't this have been in pink or teal??

What jumped out at me is that he said breaking even means he is satisfied. Everyone needs to keep in mind that we are not privy to the info that he is. He didn't say that his goal was to make a ton of money off of the team (though his investment is worth a ton more than he paid), his responsibility is to not lose money. That's fair. Look at what happened to the Marlins (and now the D-Backs) after over extending themselves and spending money they don't have. I'd rather build the club for the long-haul rather then take the chance that over spending will bring a championship when it could just as easily send the club into financial ruin for years.

As I read this, I can't believe I am defending him after the things he has done in the past...

gosox41
08-17-2004, 11:01 AM
i just feel like if he truly truly TRULY (repeated for effect) wanted this club to win a world series, it would ahve happened, if not won a WS then at least paid a visit to the Big Dance. I understand that it takes the right combo of players and the right understanding of the game to make it all the way, but this guy has hed the power to win a ring for over 20 years and it just seems to me like he does very little to help the advancment of this club interms of giving his ALL to the benefit of the team (white flag trade, supporting the 94 lockout, giving a small payroll to a large market team). You could say that hes done a lot for the re-vamoing of The Cell, but that was US Cellulars money, not his. and i wonder how many of the new parts of the cell were actually his idea. If he really cared about the welfare of the White Sox, we would at the least have ticket stubs from a world series game. I just dont trust him, and even if a Ring was one during his tenure with the Sox, i still wouldnt trust the jackass. hes a business man, not a sports fan
JR has had his moments of stupidity but he does win. I saw the logic behind the White Flag Trade. Look how many fans (including me) who thought that after that 6 game losing streak it was over for the team. We may be wrong, and hopefully we are, but we know what the odds are.

1994 was a strike and not a lockout. Balme JR all you want but no one knows the whole story for sure.

I do partially blame JR for the small market payroll. Not because he's cheaping out, he is spending what he has. But because he has alienated so many Sox fans over the years. While I see their point, it's time to get over it. How many of these pissed of Sox fans are also Bulls fans an support them (they had one of the top attendances in the league the last few years and they suck). Or how many pissed off JR hating Sox fans are Bear fans. How's that working out for you? Ownership there treats the fans badly and they can't even win with a salary cap or parity. How many pissed of JR hating Sox fans are Black Hawk fans? Do I need to say more about the Hawks.

My point is JR pissed fans off and it's hurt the team revenue wise. And they have every right to feel how they feel. But I have two words of advice: 1. move on, it's been 10 years and 2. Tell me that most of these fans don't exhibit the contradicitory behaviors I listed above.


Bob

TDog
08-17-2004, 11:23 AM
The White Sox have been competitive for awhile. The Diamondbacks have a World Series win to their credit, but the franchise is in real trouble because the team can now only be competitive on any given night. The White Sox are not a the level of the A's, and the A's don't get to the World Series either. If the next step for the Sox is to be the A's, it wouldn't stop a lot of the complaining around here.

At least the A's, and even the Sox, provide hope for their fans. I have a lot of friends in Arizona, and I'm sorry to hear the Diamondbacks are less popular there than they were when they struggled in their inaugural season. (I went to four Diamondbacks games in that first season, and they didn't score a run.) I would rather have some hope every year than pay for a great season with what the Diamondbacks are going through.

Lip Man 1
08-17-2004, 11:53 AM
None Loazia says: "It is not that easy to just make it to the World Series."

Well let's see.... the following franchises have made it to the World Series since the start of the 1981 season (when current ownership took over...)

Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals, Brewers, Phillies, Orioles, Padres, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Red Sox, Twins, Athletics, Giants, Reds, Braves, Blue Jays, Indians, Marlins, Diamondbacks and Angels.

(Bold indicates expansion teams...)

Let's see....hmmmm....that's 21 out of 30 MLB clubs.....seems pretty easy to me.

Lip

Iwritecode
08-17-2004, 11:56 AM
The White Sox have been competitive for awhile. The Diamondbacks have a World Series win to their credit, but the franchise is in real trouble because the team can now only be competitive on any given night. The White Sox are not a the level of the A's, and the A's don't get to the World Series either. If the next step for the Sox is to be the A's, it wouldn't stop a lot of the complaining around here.

At least the A's, and even the Sox, provide hope for their fans. I have a lot of friends in Arizona, and I'm sorry to hear the Diamondbacks are less popular there than they were when they struggled in their inaugural season. (I went to four Diamondbacks games in that first season, and they didn't score a run.) I would rather have some hope every year than pay for a great season with what the Diamondbacks are going through.

If the Sox won one WS and then became what the D-backs are now for the next 10 years I could die happy. 86 years is a long time to wait. All I'm asking for is one WS championship before I die...

misty60481
08-17-2004, 11:59 AM
JR is quick to blame everybody that this is a Cubs town yet he helped create that--he let Harry & b Jimmy go at the time they were the most popular announcers in the league, I know they were complaining about how the Sox werent playing smart baseball but the fans loved them, Harry went to north side and became cult status while JR sat and whined then he let LaRussa go only to become one of the top managers in baseball, then he tore down old Comiskey look at the popularity of Wrigley & Fenway just because they are old landmarks and ours was a couple years older. he does not have good feelingfs with any of the old Sox favorites we could have days when Fisk, Luzinski, Looie or some of the old timers have a day, instead they all either have hard feelings toward us or just dont care, I think not only has JR made his own problems he wont try to correct them, I know he is ( or Cellular is ) trying to made the park more baseball friendly but I think it is aliitle to late. I cant help it I dont feel a bit sorry for JR....

Iwritecode
08-17-2004, 12:01 PM
JR has had his moments of stupidity but he does win. I saw the logic behind the White Flag Trade. Look how many fans (including me) who thought that after that 6 game losing streak it was over for the team. We may be wrong, and hopefully we are, but we know what the odds are.

1994 was a strike and not a lockout. Balme JR all you want but no one knows the whole story for sure.

I do partially blame JR for the small market payroll. Not because he's cheaping out, he is spending what he has. But because he has alienated so many Sox fans over the years. While I see their point, it's time to get over it. How many of these pissed of Sox fans are also Bulls fans an support them (they had one of the top attendances in the league the last few years and they suck). Or how many pissed off JR hating Sox fans are Bear fans. How's that working out for you? Ownership there treats the fans badly and they can't even win with a salary cap or parity. How many pissed of JR hating Sox fans are Black Hawk fans? Do I need to say more about the Hawks.

My point is JR pissed fans off and it's hurt the team revenue wise. And they have every right to feel how they feel. But I have two words of advice: 1. move on, it's been 10 years and 2. Tell me that most of these fans don't exhibit the contradicitory behaviors I listed above.


Bob

Something to keep in mind...

The Sox have a couple handicaps that the other Chicago teams don't. One is the weather. Typically, the worse the weather, the fewer the fans. It doesn't come into play with the Bulls or Hawks. Bears fans expect bad weather.

Second is the length of the schedule. They probably have more home games than all the other teams combined. It's easier to spread the attendance out that way.

voodoochile
08-17-2004, 12:02 PM
None Loazia says: "It is not that easy to just make it to the World Series."

Well let's see.... the following franchises have made it to the World Series since the start of the 1981 season (when current ownership took over...)

Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals, Brewers, Phillies, Orioles, Padres, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Red Sox, Twins, Athletics, Giants, Reds, Braves, Blue Jays, Indians, Marlins, Diamondbacks and Angels.

(Bold indicates expansion teams...)

Let's see....hmmmm....that's 21 out of 30 MLB clubs.....seems pretty easy to me.

Lip
Two of the remaining teams are also expansion teams who haven't been around since 1981 and some of the other teams include the flubbies and the Expos. Not good company there now is it?

In addition every other team in the ALC has made it at least once.

Baby Fisk
08-17-2004, 12:07 PM
If the Sox won one WS and then became what the D-backs are now for the next 10 years I could die happy. 86 years is a long time to wait. All I'm asking for is one WS championship before I die...
Couldn't agree with this more. I'll never understand the "don't mortgage the future" argument. **** the future! I want to die with WS memories, not with perpetually unfulfilled hopes for the future. :angry:

TDog
08-17-2004, 12:07 PM
If the Sox won one WS and then became what the D-backs are now for the next 10 years I could die happy. 86 years is a long time to wait. All I'm asking for is one WS championship before I die...
When I was living in Cubs country (everybody I went to school with just across the stateline in Northwest Indiana in the late 1960s were Cubs fans) no one cared that within the last 10 years the Sox had been to a World Series. No one cared that the Sox were coming off of 17 straight winning seasons when they were losing 10 straight to open the 1968 season.

anewman35
08-17-2004, 12:07 PM
Two of the remaining teams are also expansion teams who haven't been around since 1981 and some of the other teams include the flubbies and the Expos. Not good company there now is it?

In addition every other team in the ALC has made it at least once.
Just curious - if we're blaming JR for not getting the team to the series in the last 22 years, then shouldn't we put equal blame on all the previous owners for not getting us to the series for the 22 years before that? (and, of course, except for that one year, for the 40 years before that).

Say what you want about JR, but he has a long way to go before the longest seriesless streak this team has ever had (and, remember, back then there were EIGHT teams in the league, and we still couldn't make it for 40 years).

hawkeyesrule
08-17-2004, 12:46 PM
Going back twenty years is the wrong comparison here. Yes, he's owned the team that long, but the landscape of the game has changed immensely since then. I'd say the last 10 years is a pretty appropriate time frame. Before that, it wasn't quite as easy to "buy" a championship. The 1997 Marlins tried this, and it worked. Then it took them a while to pick up the pieces, and it took another World Series to bring back the fans they alienated when they broke up that team in a fire-sale (for no reason other than they spent too much). If you look at the players that were there, who knows how many more they might have won. But look at all the teams over the past 10 years that have tried this way. The Mets are a great example. The Yankees are the big spenders, and if you look at the core of their championship teams, you see the same home-grown guys.

iwannago
08-17-2004, 01:30 PM
Really, I don't think JR is too bad of an owner. He did bring six Championships to Chicago. I think only Halas could top that.

Cubsuck_a_lot
08-17-2004, 02:03 PM
It is not that easy to just make it to the World Series. Ask the Mets who are still paying Mo Vaughn.

with over 20 years of ownership experience, the knowledge he has gained by watching other teams making it to the WS and knowing what kind of players and what kind of money it takes to get to, let alone win, a WS, JR seems unable to buy a clue. i know it's hard to get there, but what im saying is that, if he really did care about the welfare and the success of the Sox, he should know what to do and acclimate his team to get to that point. it just blows my mind why someone who doesnt seem to really, deeply long his team to win cant even get to the World Series. Why does he want to keep his ownership status when he doesnt seem to be 100% into his business venture? I dont like polyester suits, so why would i buy one and then hold on to it for 20some years?

Iwritecode
08-17-2004, 02:34 PM
I dont like polyester suits, so why would i buy one and then hold on to it for 20some years?

If you bought that suit for $20 and 20+ years later knew that you could get a couple of million for it wouldn't you hold on to it as well?

SOXSINCE'70
08-17-2004, 02:35 PM
Hey,JR's a great owner.Just ask Carlton Fisk,Jack McDowell or one of his combatants during the '94 strike,Curt Schilling.:kneeslap:

If you like "pay for perfomance" clauses,"diminshed skills" clauses and deferred money,he's your guy.:D: :D:

I just know that since his group took ownership of this team in 1981,expansion teams such as the Marlins (twice),Angels(once),
Twins(twice),and D-Backs(once) have all won the WS on limited budgets.

This brings me to the question on many a Sox fan's mind:

"Hey Jerry,where's my championship??":angry: :angry:

Cubsuck_a_lot
08-17-2004, 02:43 PM
If you bought that suit for $20 and 20+ years later knew that you could get a couple of million for it wouldn't you hold on to it as well?
but why go thru the hell of the criticism from the media, from the fans, from the players, from the managment, if you didnt truly want your team to win? all this does is perpetuate the idea that JR truly is just a money-loving jackass. but beyond that, it shows that he really doesnt care about the welfare of the Sox, so just sell the team and get your "couple of million". If K Dub owned the team, he'd would probably start selling any body part of his that isnt a desperately necessity of life (a kidney, an arm, maybe a leg or two) just to get the payroll this team needs and this town deserves.

Flight #24
08-17-2004, 02:45 PM
I just know that since his group took ownership of this team in 1981,expansion teams such as the Marlins (twice),Angels(once),
Twins(twice),and D-Backs(once) have all won the WS on limited budgets.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Marlins first championship team and the DBacks team both pretty big budget extravaganzas? I seem to recall something about one of them selling off players after the title and the other going through a period where the team was supposedly close to not making payroll a few years ago. Not sure I'd classify those teams as "low budget".

As for the Twins - well, in general I think you need to separate the "eras" to pull out the time from when salaries exploded. Them winning is not at all like the Marlins last year, even though both were relatively low budget teams. Back when the Twins won, payrolls were a lot less divergent from top to bottom, spreading talent more evenly. It's near impossible to have a team like they did on a low budget nowadays.

In any case, to have 3 or so teams win on a low budget in 20 years isn't exactly a resounding case that there isn't a linkage between high payroll and championship caliber teams.

Flight #24
08-17-2004, 02:49 PM
but why go thru the hell of the criticism from the media, from the fans, from the players, from the managment, if you didnt truly want your team to win? all this does is perpetuate the idea that JR truly is just a money-loving jackass. but beyond that, it shows that he really doesnt care about the welfare of the Sox, so just sell the team and get your "couple of million". If K Dub owned the team, he'd would probably start selling any body part of his that isnt a desperately necessity of life (a kidney, an arm, maybe a leg or two) just to get the payroll this team needs and this town deserves.
Don't be fooled. It's one thing to put all the resources of the organization into winning, and making organizational sacrifices to have that happen. It's another thing entirely to make personal sacrifices.

Would any of us pay say - $10,000 if it meant the Sox would field a high budget team (no guarantee of a title)? As much as I love the Sox, I would not. And similarly, I don't expect JR to dip into his personal finances. If he wants to make an investment in the team from his personal $$$ based on getting a return on that investment when/if the team does well and revenues increase, that's a separate matter. But those who say "He's rich, why can't he put his own money in - he can afford it" are kidding only themselves.

ewokpelts
08-17-2004, 03:06 PM
Hey,JR's a great owner.Just ask Carlton Fisk,Jack McDowell or one of his combatants during the '94 strike,Curt Schilling.:kneeslap:

If you like "pay for perfomance" clauses,"diminshed skills" clauses and deferred money,he's your guy.:D: :D:

I just know that since his group took ownership of this team in 1981,expansion teams such as the Marlins (twice),Angels(once),
Twins(twice),and D-Backs(once) have all won the WS on limited budgets.

This brings me to the question on many a Sox fan's mind:

"Hey Jerry,where's my championship??":angry: :angry:the twins moved from washington in 1961. they are/were teh original senators.
Gene

DumpJerry
08-17-2004, 07:47 PM
Let's see....first response he had is how surprised he was at our pasion when he took over...............just what planet did he come from? Then, why couldn't one of us gotten a hold of his kid and taken him to a Flubs' game?

he_gone_89
08-17-2004, 08:01 PM
Two of the remaining teams are also expansion teams who haven't been around since 1981 and some of the other teams include the flubbies and the Expos. Not good company there now is it?

In addition every other team in the ALC has made it at least once.whats worse: every other AL Central team has won a Title exempting the indians[1 game away from a title in 1997]
Twins[91]
Royals[85]
Tigers[84]

Daver
08-17-2004, 08:30 PM
Good interview. But since he didn't say the things fans here think is true he must by lying.


Bob
What is the truth?

You don't know it and neither do I, so what is your point?

I know some things that are true. I know that MLB is made up of 30 partners, all of whom own a 1/30th share of the Expos, where does the revenue sharing money for this franchise go?

If the Expos are running at a loss, how much is each partner kicking in to cover the deficit?

Is Jerry using money generated from the Sox to cover his portion of the Expos, if in fact they are operating at a loss? If so, is it considered when he takes the spreadsheet to the rest of the investors?

Jerry Reinsdorf has been playing a shell game for twenty two years, and will continue to do so.

tebman
08-17-2004, 09:57 PM
JR has had his moments of stupidity but he does win. I saw the logic behind the White Flag Trade. Look how many fans (including me) who thought that after that 6 game losing streak it was over for the team. We may be wrong, and hopefully we are, but we know what the odds are.

1994 was a strike and not a lockout. Balme JR all you want but no one knows the whole story for sure.

I do partially blame JR for the small market payroll. Not because he's cheaping out, he is spending what he has. But because he has alienated so many Sox fans over the years. While I see their point, it's time to get over it...

My point is JR pissed fans off and it's hurt the team revenue wise. And they have every right to feel how they feel. But I have two words of advice: 1. move on, it's been 10 years and 2. Tell me that most of these fans don't exhibit the contradicitory behaviors I listed above.

BobIt's been over 15 years, but I have a hard time letting go of the memory of JR's (and EE's) willingness to move the Sox to Florida if they didn't get their publicly-funded ballpark. I know, I know, I should move on. In most things I'm able to do that. But I see JR and I have this image of him holding the team over a bridge and saying, "Give me a free ballpark or they're going down!"

I'm sure JR has redeeming qualities. But he's first and foremost a real estate salesman, and that's what drives his business imperatives. Would he like the Sox to win? Sure. But if he has a chance to close A Deal instead, like in the movie "Glengarry Glen Ross," he'll close the Deal.

That's what I think.

- tebman

voodoochile
08-17-2004, 09:57 PM
Just curious - if we're blaming JR for not getting the team to the series in the last 22 years, then shouldn't we put equal blame on all the previous owners for not getting us to the series for the 22 years before that? (and, of course, except for that one year, for the 40 years before that).

Say what you want about JR, but he has a long way to go before the longest seriesless streak this team has ever had (and, remember, back then there were EIGHT teams in the league, and we still couldn't make it for 40 years).
Yes, absolutely. It is all of there faults too. Now, back to the issue at hand...

The CURRENT owner is failing miserably. Thanks for finally seeing things my way...:D:

Lip Man 1
08-17-2004, 10:49 PM
Daver:

Excellent points about the Expos although wouldn't it be 1/29th ownership since the Expos have no outside owners.

but that's true, Montreal loses money Uncle Jerry kicks in 1/29th operating funds, oh my! The Sox profit has gone by the boards. LOL

Lip

Nellie_Fox
08-17-2004, 11:49 PM
If the Sox won one WS and then became what the D-backs are now for the next 10 years I could die happy. I don't believe this for an instant. Oh, I believe you mean it now, but within a couple of years of frustration afterward, you'd be right there complaining about how the cheap SOB didn't break the bank to re-sign everyone. Look at how many Chicago fans still vilify him for breaking up the Bulls, and that was after how many championships?

DumpJerry
08-18-2004, 12:26 AM
My friends who are Flub fans are mostly from other parts of the country and don't understand my love for the Sox, hatred for JR and the Flubs. Especially the JR part. I explain that JR has committed numerous crimes against humanity. Among the crimes:

Sportschannel, tearing down old Comiskey, taking active steps to move team to Florida, dumping Fisk, taking credit for the '94 strike (he was chair of the Labor Management Committee and advocated calling the players' bluff), driving Harry to the North Side, and sending LaRussa packing. This is the short list. Maybe I was spoiled. My four years of high school coincided with the four year Veeck owned the team.

I remember after JR and EE bought the team, one of the sports columnist (Jerome Holtzman?) wrote that when they met the Chicago sports media for a beer, they talked about how crushed they were when the Dodgers moved west (he does it again in this interview). Holtzman said we had to brace ourselves because these guys (JR and EE) have no emotional ties to the Sox.

WE MUST HAVE LOCAL OWNERSHIP OF THE SOX!!!!!!!!!!

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:12 AM
Something to keep in mind...

The Sox have a couple handicaps that the other Chicago teams don't. One is the weather. Typically, the worse the weather, the fewer the fans. It doesn't come into play with the Bulls or Hawks. Bears fans expect bad weather.

Second is the length of the schedule. They probably have more home games than all the other teams combined. It's easier to spread the attendance out that way.
True on both points. But in reagards to home games, the Bulls average about 22K last season. And they sucked. Same with the 4 seasons before. And they sucked all those years.

The thing that gets me is that it is much cheaper to go to 1 Sox game a year then go to 1 Bulls game a year. Same with the Black Hawks and Bears. It costs a lot more money to be treated like garbage by ownership and not see a winning team then to go see the Sox, a team that has at least been in the fight the last couple of years.



Bob

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:17 AM
It's been over 15 years, but I have a hard time letting go of the memory of JR's (and EE's) willingness to move the Sox to Florida if they didn't get their publicly-funded ballpark. I know, I know, I should move on. In most things I'm able to do that. But I see JR and I have this image of him holding the team over a bridge and saying, "Give me a free ballpark or they're going down!"

I'm sure JR has redeeming qualities. But he's first and foremost a real estate salesman, and that's what drives his business imperatives. Would he like the Sox to win? Sure. But if he has a chance to close A Deal instead, like in the movie "Glengarry Glen Ross," he'll close the Deal.

That's what I think.

- tebmanThe thing about it was that it wsa all a big bluff. It was a political move done to get a new stadium built.

I was only a teenager at the time, but I remember asking my father if the Sox were going to leave town. He lauged and made a comment about how they would come up with a 'last minute' deal to keep the team here.

He was right. Right before that clock supposedly struck midnight on the night of the deadline, a deal was struck.

It's a shame the fans had to in the middle of the political wrangling, but think of it this way. The Sox owned the last ballpark. Pieces of upper deck were falling off (sound familiar to any team you know of in Chicago). THe Sox were responsible for fixing the structural problems as well as making the game safe for fans. If you think JR is cheap now, wait until you see waht his payrolls probably would have been had he been forced to shell out millions ot make the stadium safe.

And my guess is attendance wouldn't be any better then it is today if the old Comiskey were still here.



Bob

samram
08-18-2004, 08:18 AM
True on both points. But in reagards to home games, the Bulls average about 22K last season. And they sucked. Same with the 4 seasons before. And they sucked all those years.

The thing that gets me is that it is much cheaper to go to 1 Sox game a year then go to 1 Bulls game a year. Same with the Black Hawks and Bears. It costs a lot more money to be treated like garbage by ownership and not see a winning team then to go see the Sox, a team that has at least been in the fight the last couple of years.



Bob
Yeah, I don't think it's helped to play in the same division with Detroit, KC, Cleveland of the last few seasons, and what is really a starless Minnesota team. The team has drawn well for the Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, etc. Stars draw fans- in the NBA, there is usually one guy (maybe two) on the visiting team who will be out there for 40 minutes, who can draw fans to see a bad home team.

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:25 AM
Hey,JR's a great owner.Just ask Carlton Fisk,Jack McDowell or one of his combatants during the '94 strike,Curt Schilling.:kneeslap:

If you like "pay for perfomance" clauses,"diminshed skills" clauses and deferred money,he's your guy.:D: :D:

I just know that since his group took ownership of this team in 1981,expansion teams such as the Marlins (twice),Angels(once),
Twins(twice),and D-Backs(once) have all won the WS on limited budgets.

This brings me to the question on many a Sox fan's mind:

"Hey Jerry,where's my championship??":angry: :angry:
NOt that I like sticking up for JR, but here goes:

1. Just about every owner has had problems with a few players over time in regards to salary negotiations getting sticky.

2. 'Pay for performance' is a concept I'm in favor of. It'll never happen, but why shouldn't these guys get paid to stay on their games? The NFL does it by not having guaranteed contracts. Pay for performance would probably reduce the amount of money wasted on guys like Jamie Navarro, Sidney Ponson, and Danny Tartabull. All those guys played great in their FA year, signed a big deal and coaste the rest of their careers.

3. Deferred payments is something most manjor league teams use to pay players, especially in long term contracts.

4. Check out the payroll for the 1997 Marlins, and the 2001 Diamondbacks. They bought their championships. They didn't do it on a modest budget or whatever.

And while no one mentions it, the Marlins were able to get to the 2003 World Series because they traded away their core 1997 players for talent and while also getting some high draft picks.

What would you say if JR won the World Series and then promptly traded every significant contributor to cut payroll?

Of course JR would first have to get to a WS let alone win it. But you no what I mean.


Bob

tebman
08-18-2004, 08:54 AM
The thing about it was that it wsa all a big bluff. It was a political move done to get a new stadium built.

I was only a teenager at the time, but I remember asking my father if the Sox were going to leave town. He lauged and made a comment about how they would come up with a 'last minute' deal to keep the team here.

He was right. Right before that clock supposedly struck midnight on the night of the deadline, a deal was struck.

It's a shame the fans had to in the middle of the political wrangling, but think of it this way. The Sox owned the last ballpark. Pieces of upper deck were falling off (sound familiar to any team you know of in Chicago). THe Sox were responsible for fixing the structural problems as well as making the game safe for fans. If you think JR is cheap now, wait until you see waht his payrolls probably would have been had he been forced to shell out millions ot make the stadium safe.

And my guess is attendance wouldn't be any better then it is today if the old Comiskey were still here.

BobBob, everything you say is true. But JR still gnaws at me for calling the bluff in the first place. That's the real-estate salesman in him.

I think it was Garrison Keillor who once wrote that its good to have some regrets and to carry some small grudges. They provide some reference points in one's life. Maybe I should thank JR for providing that reference for me.

- tebman

Hitmen77
08-18-2004, 03:20 PM
Really, I don't think JR is too bad of an owner. He did bring six Championships to Chicago. I think only Halas could top that.
Are we talking about MJ or JR here? At any rate, the Bulls championships don't mean anything to me as a Sox fan.

I think a number of posters on this thread have already covered the reasons why JR is a bad owner. I don't think it's so much his willingness or lack of willingness to spend (which has been debated to death on WSI) as much as his amazingly tin ear when it comes to public relations. He's done alot of things that have driven many away from the Sox fan base forever.
- Dumping Harry and gift-wrapping an icon to the Cubs,
- Putting the Sox mostly on pay TV while the Cubs stayed on free tv (remember, the Sox didn't just go to basic cable in the 80s, they went to a $21/month premium service)
- Building a generic new stadium that was almost immediately put to shame by Camden Yards.
- His perceived role in the '94 strike.
- The White Flag Trade
and so forth