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View Full Version : Note to Ozzie - RE: Shingo


jabrch
08-16-2004, 12:21 AM
Ozzie, please stop using Shingo in the 8th. He isn't good at throwing in multiple innings.

Thanks

Jason

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 12:30 AM
Ozzie, please stop using Shingo in the 8th. He isn't good at throwing in multiple innings.

Thanks

Jason
Who would u suggest oz put in\put his trust in when the tieing run is batting in the 8th inning which happened today? Ageless Wonder(where my fastball went) Mike Jackson?

jabrch
08-16-2004, 12:31 AM
Who would u suggest oz put in\put his trust in when the tieing run is batting in the 8th inning which happened today? Ageless Wonder(where my fastball went) Mike Jackson?
Politte? Adkins? Cotts? Marte? Anyone but Shingo, IMHO. He seems ineffective after he sits down in the dugout. Some guys aren't mean for the 2 inning save.

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 12:40 AM
Politte? Adkins? Cotts? Marte? Anyone but Shingo, IMHO. He seems ineffective after he sits down in the dugout. Some guys aren't mean for the 2 inning save.It was pollite and marte who walked the bases loaded i believe. Cotts and adkins are delegated to eating up innings during losses.

And what is wrong with shingo going more than 1 inning? Cuz he gave up 2 runs and ballooned his era to 2.31? He can have a 9 era for all i care, as long as he doesnt blow the save. He is a seasoned vet and it showed today with his pitching. He only gave up the 2 runs cuz 'Tek got a lucky fastball

jabrch
08-16-2004, 12:51 AM
Nah - it just looks like he struggles so much any time he has to go more than 1 IP. The loss vs Minn, the loss at Wrigley, today, his bad outings seem to often come when called to go more than just the 9th.

Now I agree - we don't have too many options. But I just get the feeling Takatsu would be best used for 1 inning only.

Nard
08-16-2004, 12:56 AM
Games where Shingo has given up runs in July/August:

at CHC: 1.1 IP, 1 R
vs MIN: 2.0 IP, 1 R
vs CLE: 1.0 IP, 3 R
at BOS: 1.1 IP, 2 R
at BOS: 1.1 IP, 2 R


Yep.

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 12:58 AM
Nah - it just looks like he struggles so much any time he has to go more than 1 IP. The loss vs Minn, the loss at Wrigley, today, his bad outings seem to often come when called to go more than just the 9th.

Now I agree - we don't have too many options. But I just get the feeling Takatsu would be best used for 1 inning only.

Any pitcher is best used for one inning. Hence why the BY Kim project to make him a starter has constantly failed, the longer someone see's a pitcher, the better they read him. Its law of averages, the more a pitcher throws, the chances of him being beat increases. If randy johnson became a closer, he could prob rack up the most saves in a season the quickest dependin on the team. Sox couldnt afford to possibly blow that game in the 8th, esp with bostons hi powered lineup. He is human, he will lose some games and make mistakes. Plus its not like he's being put out there every day, so we dont need to worry about him burning out. I def dont wanna see marte in any game after he gives up walks like those and although i am a fan of neal cotts, he's not major league ace material yet as i predicted when he came to us. Only a few more years neal, and you'll be our Rich Harden

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 01:08 AM
Games where Shingo has given up runs in July/August:

at CHC: 1.1 IP, 1 R
vs MIN: 2.0 IP, 1 R
vs CLE: 1.0 IP, 3 R
at BOS: 1.1 IP, 2 R
at BOS: 1.1 IP, 2 R


Yep.
he also has a win against cleveland where he pitched 2 innings. And he blew a save against cleveland only pitching 1 inning

And apparently he has a 27.00 era when the count is 0-0

What does this all mean? That hes Human

Nard
08-16-2004, 01:12 AM
I have that Cleveland one right up there.

It still means that in the last couple months, 80% of the time that Shingo gives up runs is when he pitches multiple innings.

samram
08-16-2004, 07:51 AM
It would be really nice if Politte or Marte could actually get through the 8th inning without putting two or three guys on, and making Ozzie change pitchers. Although, Oz screwed up, IMO, by bringing in Marte on Sunday, which allowed Boston to send Millar up with a chance to tie the game. That was a brain cramp.

misty60481
08-16-2004, 08:26 AM
I disagree with your idea that a pitcher becomes less effective after more than one inning, some of the best pitchers get b stronger as the game goes on, how many times have you heard it said if you dont get to him early he will only get stronger?????

losingugly2004
08-16-2004, 08:43 AM
Ozzie, please stop using Shingo in the 8th. He isn't good at throwing in multiple innings.

Thanks

Jason
I'd like to see Ozzie bring Shingo in just once as a set-up guy to Marte or Politte. Most of Shingo's appearances this year have come in a closer's role with little or no room for error. He is seeing some of these batters for the first time. I'm still amazed he has done this well at this point of the season. Let's take a little of the pressure off him and spread it to some of the other relievers now.

ChiSoxBobette
08-16-2004, 08:54 AM
Politte? Adkins? Cotts? Marte? Anyone but Shingo, IMHO. He seems ineffective after he sits down in the dugout. Some guys aren't mean for the 2 inning save.They were in and they were'nt effective either , so who would you go to. Ozzie had no choice.

OurBitchinMinny
08-16-2004, 10:17 AM
whatever most of you think, the league is figuring out shingo. He is old and should not be made to go more than one inning

mcfish
08-16-2004, 10:57 AM
whatever most of you think, the league is figuring out shingo. He is old and should not be made to go more than one inningBoston had never seen Shingo before this weekend. He did his job and finished both games for us. More importantly, he struck out a man when he came into a 2-out bases loaded situation Twice this weekend. The problem with the bullpen is not Shingo.

By the way, being in Fenway for that Friday game's K was really fun to see. Red Sox fans were not pleased.

BigEdWalsh
08-16-2004, 11:08 AM
Ideally, Ozzie shouldn't have to use his closer in the 8th. However, Politte and others have had their troubles forcing Ozzie to go to Shingo early. Good for Oz!

Shingo gets the outs he needs. Who cares about his ERA? The win is the main thing. Cotts, Adkins, Politte, sometimes Marte and of course Jackson make me nervous as hell.

idseer
08-16-2004, 11:10 AM
Ideally, Ozzie shouldn't have to use his closer in the 8th. However, Politte and others have had their troubles forcing Ozzie to go to Shingo early. Good for Oz!

Shingo gets the outs he needs. Who cares about his ERA? The win is the main thing. Cotts, Adkins, Politte, sometimes Marte and of course Jackson make me nervous as hell.
gets the outs he needs? i recall people saying exactly the same thing about koch early in the year.

Ubei
08-16-2004, 12:37 PM
Ozzie, please stop using Shingo in the 8th. He isn't good at throwing in multiple innings.

Thanks

Jason
...then Shingo rediscovers his pinpoint control that allowed him to at one point retire 28 batters in a row and not give up an important run (as opposed to Bubby Crosby's 2-run jack in early April in his ML debut, in a game Sox were losing anyway) until late June....and all his detractors will start once again raving about what an amazing closer he is.

Shingo will be fine. He was due for an identity crisis/controlitis. He'll make adjustments accordingly.

thezeker
08-16-2004, 05:15 PM
gets the outs he needs? i recall people saying exactly the same thing about koch early in the year.
If you can't see the difference between Shingo & Koch I am very worried about your eyesight and depth perception!

batmanZoSo
08-16-2004, 05:29 PM
Any pitcher is best used for one inning. Hence why the BY Kim project to make him a starter has constantly failed, the longer someone see's a pitcher, the better they read him. Its law of averages, the more a pitcher throws, the chances of him being beat increases. If randy johnson became a closer, he could prob rack up the most saves in a season the quickest dependin on the team. Sox couldnt afford to possibly blow that game in the 8th, esp with bostons hi powered lineup. He is human, he will lose some games and make mistakes. Plus its not like he's being put out there every day, so we dont need to worry about him burning out. I def dont wanna see marte in any game after he gives up walks like those and although i am a fan of neal cotts, he's not major league ace material yet as i predicted when he came to us. Only a few more years neal, and you'll be our Rich Harden
Closers as a rule only have one pitch, that's why they're closers. If you see them twice in one game you're probably gonna rough em up. A few like Rivera can go two innings no problem because he has a great fastball with movement, a cutter and a dominating slider. All Shingo has is the super-fun-happy-frisbee which is the closest thing to a gimick in the game today. And Foulke is another example...all he has is a world beating changeup...but that's it. I think he has a token breaking pitch that doesn't do much at all. The point is, these two like most closers, you get them in and out. Only in very desperate situations would I use either beyond one inning. And for the most part it would be to get the last out in the 8th then work the 9th.

kittle42
08-16-2004, 05:54 PM
Closers as a rule only have one pitch, that's why they're closers.
Gagne has 4.

thezeker
08-16-2004, 06:09 PM
Gagne has 4.
Thank You Kittle. Show me a pitcher with one pitch and I will show you a pitcher who will get hammered.

Shingo's 89 mph fastball with his different speeds on his change ups gives him an awesome repertoire.

As long as he keeps his control and does not walk batters he should continue to be awesome!!!!!

batmanZoSo
08-16-2004, 07:23 PM
Gagne has 4.
I already mentioned an exception in Rivera. Sure, Gagne works too. But these are two of the greatest closers of all time. That's like saying "well, Bonds has no holes" in a discussion about hitting.

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 11:27 PM
I disagree with your idea that a pitcher becomes less effective after more than one inning, some of the best pitchers get b stronger as the game goes on, how many times have you heard it said if you dont get to him early he will only get stronger?????

My reasoning was that of shingo is a new mlb pitcher, and has a unique delivery. When Nomo and kim came to the majors, they were near unhittable(hell nomo threw a nohitter in coors) but more you see a unique delivery, more you pick up on it. Also the comment on get him early\getting stronger mainly applies to starters because its how a starter starts and procedes that sets the pace for the game.

StockdaleForVeep
08-16-2004, 11:42 PM
Closers as a rule only have one pitch, that's why they're closers. If you see them twice in one game you're probably gonna rough em up. A few like Rivera can go two innings no problem because he has a great fastball with movement, a cutter and a dominating slider. All Shingo has is the super-fun-happy-frisbee which is the closest thing to a gimick in the game today. And Foulke is another example...all he has is a world beating changeup...but that's it. I think he has a token breaking pitch that doesn't do much at all. The point is, these two like most closers, you get them in and out. Only in very desperate situations would I use either beyond one inning. And for the most part it would be to get the last out in the 8th then work the 9th.
Explain then how 1 pitch foulker could rack up numbers of foulke from this season and last. This year alone he's gone over 1 inning about 10 times and has 19 saves, 2-3 record and a 1.80 era and last year he was 9-1 with 43 savesa and a 2.80 era.....all this with 1 pitch, he also had similar numbers when we was with oakland and same for botch when he was in oakland. Are you claiming its just we cant have 1 pitch closers?

minastirith67
08-16-2004, 11:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ozzie stated publicly that he didn't want to use Takatsu in the 8th but really was forced to thanks to the failure of the set-up guys (Politte and Marte). I believe Guillen will try to limit Shingo to the 9th as much as possible but obviously there is no guarantee.