PDA

View Full Version : I can't believe we're going to a 4-man rotation


Win1ForMe
08-14-2004, 09:23 PM
When asked about filling the fifth-starter void next Saturday afternoon in Chicago against Boston, Guillen spoke of the continued usage of Contreras, Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle and nobody else. That plan could be put into effect until the White Sox face the Twins again, beginning Sept. 14, when the South Siders get a better reading on where they stand in the pennant chase.

"If it doesn't work, we can go back to the five-man rotation and give guys more rest," Guillen said. "Right now, I'm looking to stay as close as we can to the teams in front of us and see what happens.

"We'll have to see. If we are still close to the pennant race, we might go with four. I'm going to sit with [general manager] Kenny [Williams] and Coop and see how long we can go with the four-man rotation."

Guillen will keep a close eye on his starters working on three days' rest, trying to keep their pitch counts at a manageable limit. But with every game so crucial in the drive to catch Cleveland and Minnesota in the American League Central, Guillen doesn't want to risk any further poor starts from the No. 5 slot. "I'm sick and tired of seeing the fifth starter not do anything," Guillen said. "It's frustrating, because nobody wants to take that job. When you are in a pennant race, you have to put the best guy on the mound." First of all, aren't we taking a humongous health risk by telling our pitchers to go on 3 days rest when they haven't been conditioned to do so? I'm amazed there's not a single voice of reason within our organizaton, especially with the amount of money we have invested in our pitchers.

Second, this won't work because our bullpen has only 2 dependable pitchers. We'll see more of Jackson/Adkins/Cotts/Politte, so instead of losing games in innings 1-4 (with Diaz), we'll lose them in inning 6-9 (as shown today by Adkins).

Jurr
08-14-2004, 09:25 PM
Actually, you'd be losing them in innings 8-9, and that's if Marte and Shingo tank. This is exactly the reason I see the Sox getting one more reliever off waivers. That would honestly be the only reason that you could even consider doing this move. Plus, nobody knows the players' conditioning better than the players, and they all (except for Garcia) wanted to do it.

Win1ForMe
08-14-2004, 09:27 PM
Plus, nobody knows the players' conditioning better than the players, and they all (except for Garcia) wanted to do it.
Yeah, Maggs really knew what he was doing playing the outfield earlier in the year.

Soxzilla
08-15-2004, 12:23 AM
Actually, you'd be losing them in innings 8-9, and that's if Marte and Shingo tank. This is exactly the reason I see the Sox getting one more reliever off waivers. That would honestly be the only reason that you could even consider doing this move. Plus, nobody knows the players' conditioning better than the players, and they all (except for Garcia) wanted to do it.
Garcia wanted to do it.

Win1ForMe
08-15-2004, 12:59 AM
I'm curious if any one knows the last team that went to a 4-man rotation for a prolonged stretch in the season. I seem to recall the Astros under Larry Dierker MIGHT have done it but not sure. Can't think of anyone else otherwise.

The Cheat
08-15-2004, 01:24 AM
I'm curious if any one knows the last team that went to a 4-man rotation for a prolonged stretch in the season. I seem to recall the Astros under Larry Dierker MIGHT have done it but not sure. Can't think of anyone else otherwise.
They attempted to do it in Colorado this season.... They thought a bunch of guys throwing shorter outings on shorter rest might help their ERA's in the thin air. They also carried 13 pitchers during that stretch (that may have been when Miles was sent down). We're not going to carry that many pitchers...

I expect us to live or die by it... Either it works, and we get ourselves back into the AL Central race, or it doesn't, and we go back to the 5th starter of diaz to get him some experience before we need him again next season.

Soxzilla
08-15-2004, 01:27 AM
With our pen, it honestly is probably a better idea to see diaz out there every 5th day.

When you take a look at it, would you rather see diaz once every 5 games, or see ANY combination of MJ - Politte - Adkins - Diaz - Cotts every OTHER game?

:?:

gosox41
08-15-2004, 07:51 AM
They attempted to do it in Colorado this season.... They thought a bunch of guys throwing shorter outings on shorter rest might help their ERA's in the thin air. They also carried 13 pitchers during that stretch (that may have been when Miles was sent down). We're not going to carry that many pitchers...

I expect us to live or die by it... Either it works, and we get ourselves back into the AL Central race, or it doesn't, and we go back to the 5th starter of diaz to get him some experience before we need him again next season.
The way this team has played at times I thought they were already dead. I'm not in favor of this move now. If Magglio and/or Frank were here I would probably do it. But it's not worth the risk to the pitchers IMHO to fight a losing battle.

THat being said, I hope it works out and the Sox go on a winning streak. I also hope no pitcher gets injured in what is all likelihood a lost season.


Bob

MarqSox
08-15-2004, 11:45 AM
First of all, aren't we taking a humongous health risk by telling our pitchers to go on 3 days rest when they haven't been conditioned to do so? The only way to condition them for it is to let them do it. Four-man rotations were commonplace up until 25 years ago, and most pitchers (with the notable exception of Sandy Koufax) still had similarly long careers. The five-man rotation is a fad that has gone on WAY too long.

JB98
08-15-2004, 11:49 AM
With our pen, it honestly is probably a better idea to see diaz out there every 5th day.

When you take a look at it, would you rather see diaz once every 5 games, or see ANY combination of MJ - Politte - Adkins - Diaz - Cotts every OTHER game?

:?:
You couldn't be more right. Can you imagine Garcia having a lead through six innings and having to come out because of pitch counts and the need to pitch on 3-days rest? Then, in comes Jackson or Cotts to blow the game. With Diaz on the mound, we're screwed every fifth day. With our middle relievers, we're screwed everyday.

owensmouth
08-15-2004, 12:35 PM
There seems to be a theory that a four man rotation will invariably mean injuries to our pitchers? Why? Would going to a six man rotation mean even fewer injuries?

Odishon
08-15-2004, 12:42 PM
Can you imagine Garcia having a lead through six innings and having to come out because of pitch counts and the need to pitch on 3-days rest? .
can you imagine felix diaz giving up 5 runs through first 3 innings and basically not even giving us a chance? i'd rather try my luck with adkins and cotts.

i will say this tho: this is where we sure coulda used a healthy shoeneweis and kelly wunsch. kelly in particular wouldn't have given up a homer to ortiz - might have walked him on 4 but he also might have struck him out on 3 nasty pitches.

Lip Man 1
08-15-2004, 12:47 PM
What's the option? Answer: None.

Ozzie said it best to Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown: "I'm sick and tired of seeing the fifth starter not do anything, It's frustrating because nobody wants to take that job. When you are in a pennant race, you have to put the best guy on the mound."

Lip

Brian26
08-15-2004, 12:55 PM
They're trying to win this thing. I admire the hell out of that. We may not go far in the playoffs, but if we can win a flag without our best two hitters, that's an unbelievable accomplishment. The 4-man rotation was common for years. Our 4 big starters all want to do it. Usually when you say someone's playing for pride, that means the season is over. I think these guys are playing for pride to show they can win the title without Frank and Mags. I say go for it.

Odishon
08-15-2004, 12:59 PM
What's the option? Answer: None.

Ozzie said it best to Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown: "I'm sick and tired of seeing the fifth starter not do anything, It's frustrating because nobody wants to take that job. When you are in a pennant race, you have to put the best guy on the mound."

Lip
can you blame him, tho? division is within grasp and yet he has to live through 10 runs/2 inn (schoeneweis) and 7 runs/3 inn (Diaz), um, experience every 5th day?

the 2000 team could afford that cuz they had the monster offense and later the sizeable lead. this 2004 team needs every damn edge it can find, and automatic losses every 5th day just deflate the hell out of a team.

Odishon
08-15-2004, 01:03 PM
The 4-man rotation was common for years.yeah can you believe that these pampered "athletically-superior studs" today can't throw 95-100 quality pitches on a 3-day rest when their counterparts in the 60s and 70s could and did throw 120-130+ pitches a game also on 3-day rest......without sophisticated conditioning programs or energy supplements, no less!

sam mcdowell had a game where he threw 275 pitches on a 3-day rest and he wasn't exactly a soft-tosser, lol.

Cubbiesuck13
08-15-2004, 01:16 PM
Manuel never went to a 4 man rotation. The Oz is not sitting back and waiting for something to happen. He has allready sat back and waited for someone to step up and pitch decent every 5th day. He knows the urgency and is doing something about it. I don't see how this will hurt any of our pitcher except for someone having a dead arm. Cue in the 5th starter for a spot start. I love this idea and can't wait untill it works. However, even if we win the world series if someone gets hurt next year some jackass will be pointing to this decision as a reason why.