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View Full Version : 2004 White Sox = 2003 Florida Marlins?


WhiteSoxFan84
08-14-2004, 06:59 PM
It's a scary yet exciting though. They have a lot in common. Neither one of them was given much of a chance to win a World Series in their respective seasons. But if you break it down, the 2004 ChiSox and the 2003 World Series Champion Florida Marlins, do have a lot in common.

1) Both teams had very good starting pitchers. I know some of you may think I'm dreaming here, but Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, and Jose Contreras could take any team DEEP into the playoffs. Garcia can be compared to Beckett. Contreras has stuff comparable if not BETTER than Carl Pavano's. And Buehrle is better than anybody else on that staff.

2) No-name bullpen. Our bullpen maybe unknown because it sucks at times, but names like Shingo Takastu, Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte are not very well known. They can be effective and who knows, maybe the playoffs would bring the best out of all of them.

3) Up and coming OF have career years. Miguel Cabrera didn't exactly have a career year last year, but he did have a ton to do with the Marlins winning it all. Aaron Rowand is starting to establish himself as an up and coming superstar (or am i just dreaming? I don't think so).

4) Records and paces. The Marlins had to make a very late run last year to win the Wild Card. Beating the Phillies 17 out of 19 times helped them out tremendously. The Sox will have to pull off a late run and continue to play good baseball if they want to play more than 3 games in October (3 vs. Royals finish out the regular season).

5) Ozzie Guillen. He could be the magical piece from last year's Champions that makes us..... at least a playoff team this year.

I might be just dreaming here, but it's worth thinking about. We have more in common but I can't remember much more.

DVsoxfan
08-14-2004, 07:56 PM
I sure hope you're right. I'd sure like to see us win this thing. 4-0 Indians right now, if JG keeps it up we might 3 games out going into Sunday. That would be sweet.

SouthBendSox
08-14-2004, 08:06 PM
the marlins finished above .500 right?

batmanZoSo
08-14-2004, 08:12 PM
It's a scary yet exciting though. They have a lot in common. Neither one of them was given much of a chance to win a World Series in their respective seasons. But if you break it down, the 2004 ChiSox and the 2003 World Series Champion Florida Marlins, do have a lot in common.

1) Both teams had very good starting pitchers. I know some of you may think I'm dreaming here, but Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, and Jose Contreras could take any team DEEP into the playoffs. Garcia can be compared to Beckett. Contreras has stuff comparable if not BETTER than Carl Pavano's. And Buehrle is better than anybody else on that staff.

2) No-name bullpen. Our bullpen maybe unknown because it sucks at times, but names like Shingo Takastu, Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte are not very well known. They can be effective and who knows, maybe the playoffs would bring the best out of all of them.

3) Up and coming OF have career years. Miguel Cabrera didn't exactly have a career year last year, but he did have a ton to do with the Marlins winning it all. Aaron Rowand is starting to establish himself as an up and coming superstar (or am i just dreaming? I don't think so).

4) Records and paces. The Marlins had to make a very late run last year to win the Wild Card. Beating the Phillies 17 out of 19 times helped them out tremendously. The Sox will have to pull off a late run and continue to play good baseball if they want to play more than 3 games in October (3 vs. Royals finish out the regular season).

5) Ozzie Guillen. He could be the magical piece from last year's Champions that makes us..... at least a playoff team this year.

I might be just dreaming here, but it's worth thinking about. We have more in common but I can't remember much more.They had better starting pitching (including a Beckett who for all practical purposes, might as well have been Sandy Koufax himself), better bullpen, and a better lineup top to bottom. Even if we had Thomas and Ordonez, theirs would be better suited to win playoff games. They don't have much in common other than that at one point they stunk and looked to be dead in the water. And I know that's probably your main point. But there's a reason the Marlins went all the way and why we probably won't. It was a magical year for them, but they weren't chopped liver by any stretch. We're not that good.

:hawk
It's all about the mindset. Dud'n' matter if I think they can do it. It's the twenty-five guys down there in the dugout.

MarqSox
08-14-2004, 08:51 PM
the marlins finished above .500 right?Yep, just like the 2004 Sox are currently doing and will continue to do. :bandance:

Gimm
08-14-2004, 08:58 PM
I can't stand fans like this.

It's one thing to be optimistic about a team that almost lost the season in the span of only 2 weeks. It's quite another to make outlandish comparisons with WS champs.

Can we please win 4-5 games in a row against good teams first before running the 2003 Marlins (or even 2003 Sox!) comparisons? Too much to ask?

Daver
08-14-2004, 09:00 PM
I can't stand fans like this.


It's almost as bad as the fans that take it upon themselves to tell others how to be a fan.

Gimm
08-14-2004, 09:05 PM
It's almost as bad as the fans that take it upon themselves to tell others how to be a fan.Yeah, can't stand those people, too....


:bandance:

MarqSox
08-14-2004, 09:11 PM
I can't stand fans like this.

It's one thing to be optimistic about a team that almost lost the season in the span of only 2 weeks. It's quite another to make outlandish comparisons with WS champs.

Can we please win 4-5 games in a row against good teams first before running the 2003 Marlins (or even 2003 Sox!) comparisons? Too much to ask?I know it seems like a foreign concept to many Sox fans, but there really is nothing wrong with a little optimism now and then. Makes it more fun, believe it or not.

OurBitchinMinny
08-14-2004, 10:17 PM
It's a scary yet exciting though. They have a lot in common. Neither one of them was given much of a chance to win a World Series in their respective seasons. But if you break it down, the 2004 ChiSox and the 2003 World Series Champion Florida Marlins, do have a lot in common.

1) Both teams had very good starting pitchers. I know some of you may think I'm dreaming here, but Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, and Jose Contreras could take any team DEEP into the playoffs. Garcia can be compared to Beckett. Contreras has stuff comparable if not BETTER than Carl Pavano's. And Buehrle is better than anybody else on that staff.

2) No-name bullpen. Our bullpen maybe unknown because it sucks at times, but names like Shingo Takastu, Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte are not very well known. They can be effective and who knows, maybe the playoffs would bring the best out of all of them.

3) Up and coming OF have career years. Miguel Cabrera didn't exactly have a career year last year, but he did have a ton to do with the Marlins winning it all. Aaron Rowand is starting to establish himself as an up and coming superstar (or am i just dreaming? I don't think so).

4) Records and paces. The Marlins had to make a very late run last year to win the Wild Card. Beating the Phillies 17 out of 19 times helped them out tremendously. The Sox will have to pull off a late run and continue to play good baseball if they want to play more than 3 games in October (3 vs. Royals finish out the regular season).

5) Ozzie Guillen. He could be the magical piece from last year's Champions that makes us..... at least a playoff team this year.

I might be just dreaming here, but it's worth thinking about. We have more in common but I can't remember much more.


Not a chance in hell. The marlins had a decent bullpen. Our bullpen is kind of a joke, especially now that shingo is starting to get hit

Whitesox029
08-14-2004, 10:36 PM
It's a scary yet exciting though. They have a lot in common. Neither one of them was given much of a chance to win a World Series in their respective seasons. But if you break it down, the 2004 ChiSox and the 2003 World Series Champion Florida Marlins, do have a lot in common.

1) Both teams had very good starting pitchers. I know some of you may think I'm dreaming here, but Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, and Jose Contreras could take any team DEEP into the playoffs. Garcia can be compared to Beckett. Contreras has stuff comparable if not BETTER than Carl Pavano's. And Buehrle is better than anybody else on that staff.

2) No-name bullpen. Our bullpen maybe unknown because it sucks at times, but names like Shingo Takastu, Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte are not very well known. They can be effective and who knows, maybe the playoffs would bring the best out of all of them.

3) Up and coming OF have career years. Miguel Cabrera didn't exactly have a career year last year, but he did have a ton to do with the Marlins winning it all. Aaron Rowand is starting to establish himself as an up and coming superstar (or am i just dreaming? I don't think so).

4) Records and paces. The Marlins had to make a very late run last year to win the Wild Card. Beating the Phillies 17 out of 19 times helped them out tremendously. The Sox will have to pull off a late run and continue to play good baseball if they want to play more than 3 games in October (3 vs. Royals finish out the regular season).

5) Ozzie Guillen. He could be the magical piece from last year's Champions that makes us..... at least a playoff team this year.

I might be just dreaming here, but it's worth thinking about. We have more in common but I can't remember much more.
You seem to have left out the Marlins' 7 game losing streak and overall 3 week skid from last August against the very teams they were contending with for the Wild Card.....oh that's right....there wasn't one. Are we sure this thread wasn't originally posted on June 30? It sounds like something from then--when there was hope.

Lip Man 1
08-14-2004, 10:38 PM
In a word...no.


Lip

hi8is
08-14-2004, 11:06 PM
Garcia can be compared to Beckett.

i beg to differ... beckett has some of the nastiest stuff in the MLB... garcia has good stuff, but not as nasty as beckett

MRKARNO
08-14-2004, 11:15 PM
The Marlins had a better rotation 1-5, were healthy, hot at the end of the year, had more wins at the same time last year, were fundamentally more sound and they had Pudge.

Gimm
08-14-2004, 11:26 PM
Not a chance in hell. The marlins had a decent bullpen. Our bullpen is kind of a joke, especially now that shingo is starting to get hit
Marlins had Pierre-Castillo - guys who got on base often, screwed up defensive alignment and drove pitchers insane.

Marlins also had IRod-Cabrera-Lowell-Lee-Conine who could hit fastballs, breaking balls, could hit outside pitch, could hit inside pitch, could pull the ball, could go away with it.....AND could hit quality pitching in the clutch as 2nd half of the regular season and pretty much all of playoffs showed.

Sox have Lee and Konerko. Then it's pray for rain.

Gimm
08-14-2004, 11:35 PM
I know it seems like a foreign concept to many Sox fans, but there really is nothing wrong with a little optimism now and then. Makes it more fun, believe it or not.
I am an optimist.

Doesn't mean it makes sense to compare a team that regularly fields Jackson, Adkins, Cotts, Harris, Borchard, Sandy, Timo, Gload, Uribe, Crede, Rauch, Diaz, Munoz, Koch - *vomits in mouth a little and temporarily loses cool* - to one of the more talented, balanced, fun and clutch 2nd half teams in recent years.

If you will.

pudge
08-15-2004, 01:18 AM
This thread is so moronic it's almost painful. The Marlins had the BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL after about May 1. Hence April was like their *only* bad month. You want to compare them to this year's White Sox? Wow.

Win1ForMe
08-15-2004, 01:46 AM
This thread is so moronic it's almost painful. The Marlins had the BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL after about May 1. Hence April was like their *only* bad month. You want to compare them to this year's White Sox? Wow.
Yeah, the 2003 Royals are a much better comparison. Faded down the stretch.

Lip Man 1
08-15-2004, 02:08 PM
One thing we can say with certaintly...the Marlins last year were a fluke just like the Angels before them.

Why? Because they fell apart the following season. I don't think Anaheim even had a winning record in 2003 and there is a good chance the Marlins don't either this year.

Say what you want about teams that spend money but they seem to be in the playoffs every season.

Lip

Odishon
08-15-2004, 02:13 PM
One thing we can say with certaintly...the Marlins last year were a fluke just like the Angels before them.

Why? Because they fell apart the following season. I don't think Anaheim even had a winning record in 2003 and there is a good chance the Marlins don't either this year.

Say what you want about teams that spend money but they seem to be in the playoffs every season.

Lip
could it have anything with, i dunno, them missing i-rod and derek lee's considerable offensive as well as defensive contribution? or how about josh beckett going on DL twice? injury to Conine? trade of brad penny and choi?

maybe?

Mickster
08-16-2004, 10:47 AM
i beg to differ... beckett has some of the nastiest stuff in the MLB... garcia has good stuff, but not as nasty as beckett
If you've ever watched Contreras, not his W-L, ERA or K's, but rather what he can do with a baseball, you might even say that Contreras has some of the nastiest stuff in baseball. He can truly make that ball "dance"!

idseer
08-16-2004, 11:07 AM
3) Up and coming OF have career years. Miguel Cabrera didn't exactly have a career year last year, but he did have a ton to do with the Marlins winning it all. Aaron Rowand is starting to establish himself as an up and coming superstar (or am i just dreaming? I don't think so).
even i (having been a foc from the beginning) would not suggest that aaron is an up and coming superstar. a solid major league FULL TIME player ... yes. a major star? no.

so WAKE UP! ..... because you are indeed dreaming. :sunshine:

Wanne
08-16-2004, 12:06 PM
I can slightly (and it's probably wishful thinking) see a direction here...but one HUGE difference...the X-Factor...some dude named Pudge Rodriquez!

illiniwhitesox
08-16-2004, 12:22 PM
Last time I checked, no one on our staff throws a 97 MPH heater, backed up by an 88 MPH changeup. I agree with Baseball Tonight (can't believe I'm saying this) when they say he has the best stuff of anyone in MLB.

Secondly, Contreras does have nasty stuff, but the NYY unloaded him as a gift to us b/c he had lost all confidence, especially against the Red Sox.

You can't compare Contreras to Beckett, b/c Beckett is beyond cocky, beyond confident and beyond arrogant. Take that as a compliment or insult - but no matter how you slice it, he trusts his stuff and is not afraid to challenge hitters.

Seems like he came through in the clutch in LY's World Series and NLCS. We have no one with that kind of resume on our staff.

It' more than a reach to say that we are the next Marlin's. It would be nice just to beat the Twinkies at home.

mantis1212
08-16-2004, 12:28 PM
Yeah, the 2003 Royals are a much better comparison. Faded down the stretch.
This is the comparison that really scares me. The primary reason we hired Ozzie as manager was the performance of Pena and last year's Royals. I don't hear anyone raving about Pena's sophomore performance.

Well, at least Ozzie will have a decent rotation next year...

Lip Man 1
08-16-2004, 01:30 PM
Odishon:

Doesn't matter. I knew losing all those players would kill them but you couldn't tell that to some fans who were convinced that 'small payroll' teams were going to start beating up on the big spenders from now on.

That's one of the risk of being a fluke club, you lose a player, get someone hurt, sell off guys to lower payroll and you are dead.

Just can't convince some folks I guess.

Lip

MiamiSpartan
08-16-2004, 02:02 PM
I hope you're right. Unfortunately, both teams have been at about the same point at every point this year. Both are still close enough to make some noise, but they need to continue playing with more emotion.

gobears1987
08-16-2004, 02:42 PM
It's almost as bad as the fans that take it upon themselves to tell others how to be a fan. thank you

Foulke29
08-17-2004, 12:20 AM
2) No-name bullpen. Our bullpen maybe unknown because it sucks at times, but names like Shingo Takastu, Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte are not very well known. They can be effective and who knows, maybe the playoffs would bring the best out of all of them.

Not to be trollish here, but didn't Florida have Urbina last year closing and setting up out of the bullpen? I'm not so sure he'd qualify as 'no-name.'

jordan23ventura
08-17-2004, 01:06 AM
I can slightly (and it's probably wishful thinking) see a direction here...but one HUGE difference...the X-Factor...some dude named Pudge Rodriquez!
There's only one "Pudge," and his last name isn't Rodriguez.