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benjamin
08-14-2004, 03:02 PM
In looking at Joe Crede's 2004 statistics vs. those of his career totals, it's hard not to remember having a similar feeling in 2003 about another guy whose game had gone very, very sour.

You might know him. He's Paul Konerko.

Just a point of order for those wishing to ship Crede off on the next ship to Siberia: take a quick look at the career progression of Paul Konerko leading up to his age 27 season of 2003 and then sit back a moment let it sink in exactly how God-awful he was last year.

Now, in his age 28 season Konerko is doing his best to convince everyone that last year was a fluke.

Meanwhile, here we are in the midst of Joe Crede's age 26 season and his averages of .228/.289/.432 are very similar to those of Konerko's .234/.305/.399 of last year. In fact, though both putrid, Crede has at least been able to produce a significantly higher isolated power figure (SLG% - BA) at .204 to .165. [Major League Average is about .160]

The point here, folks, is that while we can assuredly be disappointed with the awkward display at home plate this season from our young 3B, casting him aside would be an awful mistake.

The key to understand is that while his batting average has taken an absolute nosedive from .285 in 200 ABs in '02 and .261 last year, his power has not gone away.

Heading into his age 27 season next year, Crede will indeed have a great deal to prove. However, even returning his batting average to the .255-.260 range would bring with it a SLG% around .460, which would be well above-average for a major league third baseman. And if he were to bring that average up to the .290-.300 range that scouts saw possible in him and his minor league numbers suggest, you would be looking at a .300/.350/.500 hitter.

Plus, Crede's salary is no where near the $8.0 million-range of Konerko's next year.

batmanZoSo
08-14-2004, 03:11 PM
In looking at Joe Crede's 2004 statistics vs. those of his career totals, it's hard not to remember having a similar feeling in 2003 about another guy whose game had gone very, very sour.

You might know him. He's Paul Konerko.

Just a point of order for those wishing to ship Crede off on the next ship to Siberia: take a quick look at the career progression of Paul Konerko leading up to his age 27 season of 2003 and then sit back a moment let it sink in exactly how God-awful he was last year.

Now, in his age 28 season Konerko is doing his best to convince everyone that last year was a fluke.

Meanwhile, here we are in the midst of Joe Crede's age 26 season and his averages of .228/.289/.432 are very similar to those of Konerko's .234/.305/.399 of last year. In fact, though both putrid, Crede has at least been able to produce a significantly higher isolated power figure (SLG% - BA) at .204 to .165. [Major League Average is about .160]

The point here, folks, is that while we can assuredly be disappointed with the awkward display at home plate this season from our young 3B, casting him aside would be an awful mistake.

The key to understand is that while his batting average has taken an absolute nosedive from .285 in 200 ABs in '02 and .261 last year, his power has not gone away.

Heading into his age 27 season next year, Crede will indeed have a great deal to prove. However, even returning his batting average to the .255-.260 range would bring with it a SLG% around .460, which would be well above-average for a major league third baseman. And if he were to bring that average up to the .290-.300 range that scouts saw possible in him and his minor league numbers suggest, you would be looking at a .300/.350/.500 hitter.

Plus, Crede's salary is no where near the $8.0 million-range of Konerko's next year.
How could Crede start hitting .300? The way he's played this year, he has no business being on the field every day. I imagine next year will be his last chance. The guy's not a prospect he's 26. He's not much younger than Konerko who became a legitimate force 5 years ago. Crede can't stop swinging for the fences and I imagine that's the only way he can hit his 20 homers. To play every day you gotta hit .270.

Gimm
08-14-2004, 03:11 PM
In looking at Joe Crede's 2004 statistics vs. those of his career totals, it's hard not to remember having a similar feeling in 2003 about another guy whose game had gone very, very sour.

You might know him. He's Paul Konerko.

Just a point of order for those wishing to ship Crede off on the next ship to Siberia: take a quick look at the career progression of Paul Konerko leading up to his age 27 season of 2003 and then sit back a moment let it sink in exactly how God-awful he was last year.

Now, in his age 28 season Konerko is doing his best to convince everyone that last year was a fluke.

Meanwhile, here we are in the midst of Joe Crede's age 26 season and his averages of .228/.289/.432 are very similar to those of Konerko's .234/.305/.399 of last year. In fact, though both putrid, Crede has at least been able to produce a significantly higher isolated power figure (SLG% - BA) at .204 to .165. [Major League Average is about .160]

The point here, folks, is that while we can assuredly be disappointed with the awkward display at home plate this season from our young 3B, casting him aside would be an awful mistake.

The key to understand is that while his batting average has taken an absolute nosedive from .285 in 200 ABs in '02 and .261 last year, his power has not gone away.

Heading into his age 27 season next year, Crede will indeed have a great deal to prove. However, even returning his batting average to the .255-.260 range would bring with it a SLG% around .460, which would be well above-average for a major league third baseman. And if he were to bring that average up to the .290-.300 range that scouts saw possible in him and his minor league numbers suggest, you would be looking at a .300/.350/.500 hitter.

Plus, Crede's salary is no where near the $8.0 million-range of Konerko's next year.
Not all year-long funks are born equal.

Konerko's problem in 2003 was purely mental.

Crede's problem in 2004 is both mental AND physical - his bat has slowed down since the 2002 stint.

MRKARNO
08-14-2004, 03:13 PM
Here's the cause for concern however:

Konerko's best year(s) before 2003:

2001 .282 AVG .349 OBP 32 HR 99 RBI
2002 .304 AVG .359 OBP 27 HR 104 RBI

Crede's best year before 2004:

2003 .261 AVG .308 OBP 19 HR 75 RBI

So Konerko had put together two pretty damn good seasons before his slump year, while Crede has only one good season, but in reality it was just a good half a season.

benjamin
08-14-2004, 03:14 PM
Not all year-long funks are born equal.

Konerko's problem in 2003 was purely mental.

Crede's problem in 2004 is both mental AND physical - his bat has slowed down since the 2002 stint.

Konerko's bat wasn't slower last year?

benjamin
08-14-2004, 03:16 PM
Here's the cause for concern however:

Konerko's best year(s) before 2003:

2001 .282 AVG .349 OBP 32 HR 99 RBI
2002 .304 AVG .359 OBP 27 HR 104 RBI

Crede's best year before 2004:

2003 .261 AVG .308 OBP 19 HR 75 RBI

So Konerko had put together two pretty damn good seasons before his slump year, while Crede has only one good season, but in reality it was just a good half a season.
However, you also have to take in to account the salaries that both players are commanding. Konerko's slump made his $8mil salary a complete albatross.

NonetheLoaiza
08-14-2004, 03:27 PM
Here's the cause for concern however:

Konerko's best year(s) before 2003:

2001 .282 AVG .349 OBP 32 HR 99 RBI
2002 .304 AVG .359 OBP 27 HR 104 RBI

Crede's best year before 2004:

2003 .261 AVG .308 OBP 19 HR 75 RBI

So Konerko had put together two pretty damn good seasons before his slump year, while Crede has only one good season, but in reality it was just a good half a season.
Exactly. Crede's numbers in years past do not even come close to Konerko's.

MRKARNO
08-14-2004, 03:32 PM
However, you also have to take in to account the salaries that both players are commanding. Konerko's slump made his $8mil salary a complete albatross.
Salaries are a factor, but if your contension is that "You all wanted Konerko out last year and look at him now and Crede will be better just like Pauly Walnuts next year because they are analagous situations," which I think is your contention, then it's an incorrect one because Crede has had half a season of success while Konerko had 2 before 2003.

Soxzilla
08-14-2004, 03:56 PM
There have also been rumours that paulie was hiding a hip injury.

The only injury i could see crede trying to hide is the fact he has no talent....which apparently is pretty hard for him to hide this year.:rolleyes:

P.S. - Didn't paulie begin to level off after the asb last year? I mean, he pulled his avg up over 30 points eh?

iwannago
08-14-2004, 03:58 PM
How could Crede start hitting .300? The way he's played this year, he has no business being on the field every day. I imagine next year will be his last chance. The guy's not a prospect he's 26. He's not much younger than Konerko who became a legitimate force 5 years ago. Crede can't stop swinging for the fences and I imagine that's the only way he can hit his 20 homers. To play every day you gotta hit .270.
I you feel this way about Crede you must really want to dump Borchard.

MRKARNO
08-14-2004, 04:12 PM
P.S. - Didn't paulie begin to level off after the asb last year? I mean, he pulled his avg up over 30 points eh?
His average was down to .183 at one point in early July and Jerry benched him for 7 out of 10 games and then he took off. His average was back up to .256 by early september, but it fell back off to .234 by the end of the year with a terrible september

jackbrohamer
08-14-2004, 05:04 PM
Crede right now is one of the worst starters offensively in the league. I hope he pulls out of it but I don't draw any solace from the fact that he sucks as badly as Konerko did last year

Gimm
08-14-2004, 06:22 PM
The surprising thing with Crede is that in the last 2 months his defense has slipped as well.

He had the 3rd highest Zone Rating in baseball in the first couple of months, but now he is 5th from the bottom and dropping. And if you're watching the games, it's not terribly difficult to understand why. Hell, he misplayed 3 pop-ups in the span of 10 innings (!!!) against Oakland alone. While far from a liability, he is definately underachieving defensively lately.

At the plate, Joe is one of those players who cannot afford to be tentative or mechanically inconsistent, nor can he be effective as a dead-pull HR hitter. He doesn't have the batspeed or sheer power to compensate for a long swing path or lack of good pitch-recognition. He should be trying his best to emulate Robin Ventura because he is not Adrien Beltre or Aramis Ramirez.

Let's hope he can put it all together as a member of the White Sox. :bandance:

batmanZoSo
08-14-2004, 08:18 PM
I you feel this way about Crede you must really want to dump Borchard.
Mmm yes. Indeed I do.