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View Full Version : Twins/Tribe Watch 08-12-04


MRKARNO
08-12-2004, 06:52 PM
Twins up 6-3 bottom 8, but Santana is out of the game and the M's already have scored 2 on the Twins bullpen

MarqSox
08-12-2004, 07:03 PM
Lew Ford was taken to the hospital with a leg injury. X-Rays are pending.

MRKARNO
08-12-2004, 07:12 PM
Nathan comes on in the 9th and totally blows away the Mariner hitters, getting 3 K's in a perfect inning. Twins win 6-3

the_valenstache
08-12-2004, 07:13 PM
Lew Ford was taken to the hospital with a leg injury. X-Rays are pending.
Gee.

They're backup stud outfielder gets injured.

What terrible luck.

MRKARNO
08-12-2004, 07:20 PM
Gee.

They're backup stud outfielder gets injured.

What terrible luck.
They're going to be so devastated playing an outfield of Jones, Hunter and Stewart

Tavarin
08-12-2004, 07:39 PM
Gee.

They're backup stud outfielder gets injured.

What terrible luck.

You do realize Ford is probably the best hitter in their lineup

CHISOXFAN13
08-12-2004, 07:55 PM
You do realize Ford is probably the best hitter in their lineup

And he's also hardly a back-up outfielder either. He plays every day!

LOsing Ford would be an enormous loss, even though they have a nice outfield already. Jones cannot hit left-handed pitching, and that could be a problem against Cleveland this weekend.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 07:58 PM
They're going to be so devastated playing an outfield of Jones, Hunter and StewartOh please, Jones and Hunter are average baseball players this year.

Stewart has that injury that he can re-aggravate at any time on that Dome surface.

Without Ford and Stewart, they're a below average team. Koskie has an injuried wrist is it now? Yeah, that will help his hitting.....

No, Minnesota doesn't have the division in the bag, not even close.

But by the same token, Sox can't make any kind of move in the standings with Crede, Sandy, Borchard, Timo and Mike Jackson participating in close games. We're still too weak against LHP.

KW, the team need you.

Aidan
08-12-2004, 08:14 PM
While Shannon Stewart is the Twins most clutch hitter, Lew Ford is their BEST hitter. There's a reason why he is in the #3 spot in their lineup and Hunter and Jones are not. He has been carrying that team all season.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 08:28 PM
While Shannon Stewart is the Twins most clutch hitter, Lew Ford is their BEST hitter. There's a reason why he is in the #3 spot in their lineup and Hunter and Jones are not. He has been carrying that team all season.
Disagree - witness their record with and without Stewart since he was traded for in July of 2003. With? Playoff team. Without? Barely above .500

Without Koskie, Ford and Stewart, they ain't going anywhere. Sooner or later Santana returns to earth a bit and the team will be overaken.....by the Indians.

Our job is to get enough cheap upgrades off the waivers to plug the line-up holes and then challenge the Indians with a 4-man rotation. :)

Aidan
08-12-2004, 08:34 PM
Disagree - witness their record with and without Stewart since he was traded for in July of 2003. With? Playoff team. Without? Barely above .500

Without Koskie, Ford and Stewart, they ain't going anywhere. Sooner or later Santana returns to earth a bit and the team will be overaken.....by the Indians.

Our job is to get enough cheap upgrades off the waivers to plug the line-up holes and then challenge the Indians with a 4-man rotation. :)I agree with you but that was LAST SEASON. Lew Ford has been their 2003 Shannon Stewart this season. Santana will not return to earth. He is the best starting pitcher in the A.L. What will hurt them is that they only have 2 good starters -- Santana and Radke.

the_valenstache
08-12-2004, 08:50 PM
You do realize Ford is probably the best hitter in their lineup
My sarcasm was directed at the fact that they lose a guy they never intended on being a full time starter in the first place, and we lose two everyday guys who we can't win without. In summation, I hate the Twins.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 09:09 PM
. Santana will not return to earth.
Oh yes he will. They all do.

He's had a 2.00 ERA in the last, what, 2 months? He is not THAT good.

Aidan
08-12-2004, 09:18 PM
Oh yes he will. They all do.

He's had a 2.00 ERA in the last, what, 2 months? He is not THAT good.Go compare his numbers to Mark Mulder and tell me what you see.

Nevermind, I will do it for you...

Johan Santana (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6441)
3.25 ERA
190 SO
44 BB
10.30 K/9
BAA .205
WHIP 1.01

Mark Mulder (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6393)
3.49 ERA
114 SO
56 BB
6.04 K/9
BAA .243
WHIP 1.22

Do you believe me yet? The only statistic that Mulder has that is better than Santana is his record. If Santana was on the A's, he would easily have 15 wins, if not more. I know that the Twins will not go far since they have only two good pitchers -- Santana and Radke -- but Santana is an ace and is definately the best starting pitcher in the A.L. this season.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 09:31 PM
Do you believe me yet? .
No.

I know what I see, and Santana is not a 2.00 ERA talent. He is a 3.50 ERA talent.

And he most definately will hit the skids again before the year is over. Just watch.

Mohoney
08-12-2004, 09:32 PM
Tribe Update.

In the bottom of the 7th:

Sizemore flies out. 1 out.

McDonald flies out. 2 out.

Belliard singles, 2 out.

Kerry Lightenberg replaces Ted Lilly

Crisp Walks, 2 out.

Lawton walks, 2 out.

Blake Walks, Belliard scores, 2 out.

Vinnie Chulk replaces Kerry Lightenberg

Ben Broussard hits a grand slam.

I don't know about anybody else, but I definitely don't doubt this team anymore.

Aidan
08-12-2004, 09:43 PM
No.

I know what I see, and Santana is not a 2.00 ERA talent. He is a 3.50 ERA talent.

And he most definately will hit the skids again before the year is over. Just watch.I never said that Santana was 2.00 ERA talent. I noted that his ERA on the season is lower than Mulder's. Why is Santana 3.50 ERA talent in your eyes when his ERA on the season is 3.25? Besides, last time I checked, a 3.50 ERA in the A.L. is excellent anyways. :rolleyes: What's your point?

doublem23
08-12-2004, 10:14 PM
I don't know about anybody else, but I definitely don't doubt this team anymore.
I don't doubt them this year, but they will fall apart and crumble next. Bank on it.

File them with the '03 Kansas City Royals. A nice little story of a plucky young team with a never-say-die attitude that came back to Earth in a big way.

Next year? I'll be surprised if the Tribe finishes above .500.

MRKARNO
08-12-2004, 10:30 PM
I don't doubt them this year, but they will fall apart and crumble next. Bank on it.

File them with the '03 Kansas City Royals. A nice little story of a plucky young team with a never-say-die attitude that came back to Earth in a big way.

Next year? I'll be surprised if the Tribe finishes above .500.
The problem I have with this is that the Royals had a lot of clear indicators that they were going to collapse, such as their .325ish average with 2 outs and RISP and Anderson and May with career low ERAs without increasing their strikeouts. The Royals also played something like 8-10 games over their Pythagorean W-L, and subsequently, they were outscored on the year by their opponents. There were a ton of warning signs for their inevitable collapse. A lot of their players were having career years at an age where you could tell it was going to be a fluke.

I don't see the same warning signs for the Indians. A lot of their hitters are having career years at an age in which you'd expect it (25-28). CC Sabathia is for real and Brian Westbrook is for real in the rotation. Beyond that, I dont really know. They don't really have a bullpen either. They have the offense without question, but is it really this good? I do question that.

So they have 2 starters and maybe a full offense which doesnt really have any holes. That's something which could be really good to build on.

Here's what it is for me:

If their offense can continue to play at this level for years to come, then they are for real, but if they fall off, then they are probably just a .500 team.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 10:33 PM
The problem I have with this is that the Royals had a lot of clear indicators that they were going to collapse, such as their .325ish average with 2 outs and RISP and Anderson and May with career low ERAs without increasing their strikeouts. The Royals also played something like 8-10 games over their Pythagorean W-L, and subsequently, they were outscored on the year by their opponents. There were a ton of warning signs for their inevitable collapse. A lot of their players were having career years at an age where you could tell it was going to be a fluke.

I don't see the same warning signs for the Indians. A lot of their hitters are having career years at an age in which you'd expect it (25-28). CC Sabathia is for real and Brian Westbrook is for real in the rotation. Beyond that, I dont really know. They don't really have a bullpen either. They have the offense without question, but is it really this good? I do question that.

So they have 2 starters and maybe a full offense which doesnt really have any holes. That's something which could be really good to build on.

Here's what it is for me:

If their offense can continue to play at this level for years to come, then they are for real, but if they fall off, then they are probably just a .500 team.
They have a 34 Mill payroll - a lot of it is Matt Lawton. If their owner ever decided to double the payroll, the Indians will be pretty formidable in 2005.

ma-gaga
08-13-2004, 01:27 AM
They have a 34 Mill payroll - a lot of it is Matt Lawton. If their owner ever decided to double the payroll, the Indians will be pretty formidable in 2005.I don't know what their current salaries/years in the league of their players are, but keeping that team together is going to cost them a bunch. I'm totally guessing here, but annual salary increases will probably jump their payroll to upper 40's/lower 50's next year.

I need to see where Gerut and Martinez roll in at though. They are their young studs... if this is their 3rd year in the league, there's a big dollar jump to year 4.

Their pitching is what scares me the most. They have a bunch of good cheap pitching. That's what seperates them from KC in my mind. And why they'll be able to contend next year as well.

Gimm
08-13-2004, 01:57 AM
I don't know what their current salaries/years in the league of their players are, but keeping that team together is going to cost them a bunch. I'm totally guessing here, but annual salary increases will probably jump their payroll to upper 40's/lower 50's next year.

I need to see where Gerut and Martinez roll in at though. They are their young studs... if this is their 3rd year in the league, there's a big dollar jump to year 4.

Their pitching is what scares me the most. They have a bunch of good cheap pitching. That's what seperates them from KC in my mind. And why they'll be able to contend next year as well.
Sabathia is arbit-eligible.
Martinez is not until 2007
Hafner is not until 2007.
Westbrook is not until 2006.

Nobody else on that team scares me. But if Indians want to make some noise in 2005, they can get Carl Pavano and a couple of bit-time relievers. They'll be damn good then.