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hawkeyesrule
08-12-2004, 09:24 AM
I am having a lot of trouble understanding everyone's obsession with Beltran. I think he is a very good player, but not worth the kind of money that everyone seems willing to throw at him. Look at his stats this year! Last year, he was awesome, no question, but this year he hasn't done much. And if you go back further in his career, he looks very good, but not great. I know, I know, he is young, but who's to say he will improve? I just don't see taking a $15 mil per year gamble on him reverting to last year's form or improving on it. If he doesn't live up to expectations, he becomes UNTRADEABLE.

My other question is about another starter. Why hasn't anyone mentioned Matt Clement??? I hear all sorts of other pitchers mentioned as being a good fit, but I think Clement would thrive in our rotation. Between Maggs money (assuming he doesn't come back) and Valentin's money, we have an outside shot at getting both Clement and Renteria if we can throw in a few extra dollars.

Opinions???

jshanahanjr
08-12-2004, 09:28 AM
I agree with Beltran. He's a very good player, but not as good of hitter as Maggs.

BigEdWalsh
08-12-2004, 09:30 AM
I am having a lot of trouble understanding everyone's obsession with Beltran. I think he is a very good player, but not worth the kind of money that everyone seems willing to throw at him. Look at his stats this year! Last year, he was awesome, no question, but this year he hasn't done much. And if you go back further in his career, he looks very good, but not great. I know, I know, he is young, but who's to say he will improve? I just don't see taking a $15 mil per year gamble on him reverting to last year's form or improving on it. If he doesn't live up to expectations, he becomes UNTRADEABLE.

My other question is about another starter. Why hasn't anyone mentioned Matt Clement??? I hear all sorts of other pitchers mentioned as being a good fit, but I think Clement would thrive in our rotation. Between Maggs money (assuming he doesn't come back) and Valentin's money, we have an outside shot at getting both Clement and Renteria if we can throw in a few extra dollars.

Opinions???
Beltran, I'm all for it.

Matt Clement, I dunno. He has that stupid beard!

CWWTWS1
08-12-2004, 09:35 AM
Have you seen what Beltran has done to the Sox over the years? He is a switch hitting power hitter with speed and he plays very good defense. There is nothing he can't do on the field.

Matt Clement is going to command a 3-4 year deal at 8-9m per. Not a CHANCE JR gives Kenny the OK on that one.

DMarte708
08-12-2004, 09:38 AM
Beltran, I'm all for it.

Matt Clement, I dunno. He has that stupid beard!If not Clement, then his twin brother Carl Pavano should be considered. I'd bet both are commanding heftly contracts but would ultimately complete our rotation for the next three years. Most teams would love for their 5th starter to be Jon Garland.

hawkeyesrule
08-12-2004, 09:41 AM
Tearing up the Sox is one thing. Tearing up the rest of the league is another. Beltran hasn't exactly done enough THIS year to warrant the kind of money he wants. He wants 5+ years at 15+ mil per. Why give one guy that money? I'd give it to Maggs (contingent on his health) because he has proven to be consistent.

I still think taking that money and doing the Clement/Renteria combo makes the most sense. What if Renteria goes back to what he did last year??

CWWTWS1
08-12-2004, 09:47 AM
Renteria is going to stay with the Cardinals, no way the let him walk. As I said before, no way does JR give KW the ok to sign Pavano, or Clement at the dollars and years they will be asking for.

hawkeyesrule
08-12-2004, 09:54 AM
The Cards have a lot of guys locked up, plus they have to pay Big Tony LaRussa this year. Renteria might ask for more than they are able to afford.

SoxxoS
08-12-2004, 10:02 AM
Plus, if we got Pavano, we would be seeing a lot of Alyssa Milano at the Cell...which gives us a one up over the Cubs and Mia Hamm.

doublem23
08-12-2004, 10:03 AM
Plus, if we got Pavano, we would be seeing a lot of Alyssa Milano at the Cell...which gives us a one up over the Cubs and Mia Hamm.
I like the way you think. :bandance:

Tekijawa
08-12-2004, 10:16 AM
I agree with Beltran. He's a very good player, but not as good of hitter as Maggs.
Do you watch baseball? He's also a CENTERFIELDER a good one at that, he's a switch hitter that can hit at the top of the order who can bunt, hit for power AND AND AND STEAL BASES... I think that he would fill about three of the holes that we have now, I'd trade magss and prospects for beltran, the good news is we won't have to if Jerry opens the pocket book a little wider!

My biggest desire is to somehow pry Santana away from the twins, he'll be due a ton in arbitration this year so they might look to get rid of him to a high bidder, I know that they would try and avoid giving him to us at any cost but if we could get some back door 3 way trade and get Johan here, we'd be unstoppable for years to come.... Imagine a rotation of Santana Contreras Buehrle Garcia and Garland and having CF patroled by Beltran.... WOW

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Do you watch baseball? He's also a CENTERFIELDER a good one at that, he's a switch hitter that can hit at the top of the order who can bunt, hit for power AND AND AND STEAL BASES... I think that he would fill about three of the holes that we have now, I'd trade magss and prospects for beltran, the good news is we won't have to if Jerry opens the pocket book a little wider!

My biggest desire is to somehow pry Santana away from the twins, he'll be due a ton in arbitration this year so they might look to get rid of him to a high bidder, I know that they would try and avoid giving him to us at any cost but if we could get some back door 3 way trade and get Johan here, we'd be unstoppable for years to come.... Imagine a rotation of Santana Contreras Buehrle Garcia and Garland and having CF patroled by Beltran.... WOW
Do you watch Baseball? Since he has been traded he is hitting .235 and he is hitting an AMASING .263 on the year. He has made 4 Errors (rowand 5). Not to include He has never hit 30 hr. And he really does not cover that much ground in center, Like all of you would like to think. If we are going to replace Maggs with Beltran we should have just traded for Andruw Jones. He is also 27 Has more range and a better Glove than Beltran. ( 6 gold gloves at 27) He Averages 31 hr a year.(Beltran has nevr hit 30) His life time Average is 14 points lower. But he comes alot cheaper.

You would trade Maggs and Prospects for Beltran??? THANK GOD YOU DO NOT RUN THIS TEAM.

gosox41
08-12-2004, 10:52 AM
Plus, if we got Pavano, we would be seeing a lot of Alyssa Milano at the Cell...which gives us a one up over the Cubs and Mia Hamm.
Unfortunately, they broke up.

But Pavano is still a better option then Clement. Clement is an injury waiting to happen, Pavano has less milage on him.


Bob

WSox8404
08-12-2004, 11:05 AM
Do you watch Baseball? Since he has been traded he is hitting .235 and he is hitting an AMASING .263 on the year. He has made 4 Errors (rowand 5). Not to include He has never hit 30 hr. And he really does not cover that much ground in center, Like all of you would like to think. If we are going to replace Maggs with Beltran we should have just traded for Andruw Jones. He is also 27 Has more range and a better Glove than Beltran. ( 6 gold gloves at 27) He Averages 31 hr a year.(Beltran has nevr hit 30) His life time Average is 14 points lower. But he comes alot cheaper.

You would trade Maggs and Prospects for Beltran??? THANK GOD YOU DO NOT RUN THIS TEAM.
I think we can give the man a little leeway because of being traded to an underachieving team. Beltran is by far the more superior player. And amazing is spelled with a z.

DVsoxfan
08-12-2004, 11:13 AM
I want Pavano, not Clement. Not only is Pavano a better pitcher, but I couldnt stand to look @ that beard thing on his face every 5th day. I think Clement would get rocked in the AL. Does anyone have his stats vs. AL this year? Given, Clement hasnt had a lot of run support this year, but I dont think Pavano has either. He's 12-5 and just lost 1-0 to the Cardinals. If he can shut down the Cards, then he can shut down anyone. Lets get him.

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 11:14 AM
I think we can give the man a little leeway because of being traded to an underachieving team. Beltran is by far the more superior player. And amazing is spelled with a z.
So is Konerko, That Ichiro guy plays for an underachieving team, I think Carlos Lee does to. No leeway for playing for an underachieving team sorry. That is a huge crock of bull. I am not saying I want jones either but Beltran is not the answer to our problems. and no I do not want a guy hitting .235 at the top of my order.

Tekijawa
08-12-2004, 11:40 AM
Do you watch Baseball? Since he has been traded he is hitting .235 and he is hitting an AMASING .263 on the year. He has made 4 Errors (rowand 5). Not to include He has never hit 30 hr. And he really does not cover that much ground in center, Like all of you would like to think. If we are going to replace Maggs with Beltran we should have just traded for Andruw Jones. He is also 27 Has more range and a better Glove than Beltran. ( 6 gold gloves at 27) He Averages 31 hr a year.(Beltran has nevr hit 30) His life time Average is 14 points lower. But he comes alot cheaper.

You would trade Maggs and Prospects for Beltran??? THANK GOD YOU DO NOT RUN THIS TEAM.
First of all I wa scompairing Beltran to Magglio, and his Flat tire, but I'll play.

So you want a guy that hits almost 20 points lower, steals less bases has only ONCE drove in 100 Runs and Scores less runs... yeah Jones is better than Beltran in the field, especially when he comes to play, Which hasn't been this year. Andruw Jones Makes 12.5 Million Dollars this year, I'd rather pay the extra 2.5 Million to get a LEFT HANDED top of the order guy that can get on and steal bases...

And then you want to keep a guy who will probably never be the player that he was because of a possible Career ending knee injury, and then you want pay him more than either beltran or Jones (or Vlad for that matter) because he's a Corner outfielding, right handed station to station power hitter (I thin kwe have enough of those)... Good Choice... I'm glad you're not running the team either!

Would I like to have Magglio back? Yes, would I rather spend the type of money that he wants on Beltran? YES

Lip Man 1
08-12-2004, 12:02 PM
Why the constant discussion over Beltran...his agent is Scott Boras...he's not coming here. Yankees probably as now Sheffield was reported today of talking about retiring because of his injury at the end of the season.


Lip

nitetrain8601
08-12-2004, 12:12 PM
I want Beltran. If we had someone in the minors that even looked decent enough to call up next year(besides Borchard) than I wouldn't mind going after Renteria and a pitcher, but fact is, that's not the case. I think we should go after Beltran and El Duque.

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 12:23 PM
:) First of all I wa scompairing Beltran to Magglio, and his Flat tire, but I'll play.

So you want a guy that hits almost 20 points lower, steals less bases has only ONCE drove in 100 Runs and Scores less runs... yeah Jones is better than Beltran in the field, especially when he comes to play, Which hasn't been this year. Andruw Jones Makes 12.5 Million Dollars this year, I'd rather pay the extra 2.5 Million to get a LEFT HANDED top of the order guy that can get on and steal bases...

And then you want to keep a guy who will probably never be the player that he was because of a possible Career ending knee injury, and then you want pay him more than either beltran or Jones (or Vlad for that matter) because he's a Corner outfielding, right handed station to station power hitter (I thin kwe have enough of those)... Good Choice... I'm glad you're not running the team either!

Would I like to have Magglio back? Yes, would I rather spend the type of money that he wants on Beltran? YES
So hitting .235 is fine if you are left handed? Wow Don't we have a guy who could do that already, You want a guy gettin on base at .320 clip at the top of our order, Valentin is doing that right now lets throw him at the top of the order. Why not? he is left handed So it is ok to hit .235 isn't it. F**K it Let's just resign Valentin for 10 mill. He is a left hittin .235.

wdelaney72
08-12-2004, 12:32 PM
The Cards have a lot of guys locked up, plus they have to pay Big Tony LaRussa this year. Renteria might ask for more than they are able to afford.
The Cardinals WILL NOT be able to re-sign Renteria. They're already strapped with their current payroll.

I want him and Pavano signed. I like Clement, but I think some stupid GM will go out and give him 9 million a year to be their #1. Now, if Clement's market value is around 5-6 million, I'd do it, but I still like Pavano a bit more.

hold2dibber
08-12-2004, 12:37 PM
I would absolutely love to see the Sox pick up Pavano - Clement to a lesser extent, because I worry about his arm falling apart. If the Sox can re-sign Maggs to a 1-year deal (like Pudge Roriguez signed with the Marlins last year) to prove he's worth a big contract and then sign Pavano, I'd trade Garland and either Rowand or Lee (whoever would be more valuable in trade) to fill a few holes (e.g., C, SS, bullpen). Would the Braves take Lee, Garland, Ben Davis and a prospect for Furcal and Estrada?

Furcal SS
Rowand CF
Ordonez RF
Thomas DH
Konerko 1B
Everett LF
Estrada C
Crede 3B
Harris 2B

Garcia
Buehrle
Contreras
Pavano
Diaz/Cotts/Journeyman

Tekijawa
08-12-2004, 12:40 PM
:)
So hitting .235 is fine if you are left handed? Wow Don't we have a guy who could do that already, You want a guy gettin on base at .320 clip at the top of our order, Valentin is doing that right now lets throw him at the top of the order. Why not? he is left handed So it is ok to hit .235 isn't it. F**K it Let's just resign Valentin for 10 mill. He is a left hittin .235.
Ok so he's batted .235 on a new team in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE for a month and a half, so now his career stats don't count? Babe Ruth bated .181 in his last year in 92 at bats, I think you should start a movement to get him out of the hall!

Magglio batted .200 in July, should we take him out back of the barn and shut him down perminantly? Or should we hand him Jerry's Visa card and say, get what you want maggs, eshunn said that you're well worth it! How's the knee OH YOU CAN'T WALK? here have some more, glad we didn't make an effort at that beltran fool, can you believe the guy went into a slump? and in a contract year no less, man I can't believe that anyone offered him more that Jose Valentin because for a month there they batted the same average... Lucky Eshunn is running the show!

I'm pretty sure that a large MAJORITY of the people here would agree with me on this one eshunn...

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 12:51 PM
Ok so he's batted .235 on a new team in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE for a month and a half, so now his career stats don't count? Babe Ruth bated .181 in his last year in 92 at bats, I think you should start a movement to get him out of the hall!

Magglio batted .200 in July, should we take him out back of the barn and shut him down perminantly? Or should we hand him Jerry's Visa card and say, get what you want maggs, eshunn said that you're well worth it! How's the knee OH YOU CAN'T WALK? here have some more, glad we didn't make an effort at that beltran fool, can you believe the guy went into a slump? and in a contract year no less, man I can't believe that anyone offered him more that Jose Valentin because for a month there they batted the same average... Lucky Eshunn is running the show!

I'm pretty sure that a large MAJORITY of the people here would agree with me on this one eshunn...
Yeah, Just because a mojority says so does not make it true, the majority of the world is poor and broke, does not make it the right way to live. 1st off His last month in KC he was hitting worse than in Houston, It is easier to hit in the NL, And Beltran is not at the end of his career, And 70lbs over weight, Beltran has never put up overly impressive numbers EVER, And he has only declined. He has hit .300 a couple of times .308 at his absolute highest, he could steal 25 bases a year whoopty freakin do, If your going for that type of plaer get someone who will steal 40 and hit over .300 consistantly. Paying Beltran 15 million to hit say even .280 with 30 homers and 25 sb. is absolutley retarded.

Tekijawa
08-12-2004, 01:08 PM
Yeah, Just because a mojority says so does not make it true, the majority of the world is poor and broke, does not make it the right way to live. 1st off His last month in KC he was hitting worse than in Houston, It is easier to hit in the NL, And Beltran is not at the end of his career, And 70lbs over weight, Beltran has never put up overly impressive numbers EVER, And he has only declined. He has hit .300 a couple of times .308 at his absolute highest, he could steal 25 bases a year whoopty freakin do, If your going for that type of plaer get someone who will steal 40 and hit over .300 consistantly. Paying Beltran 15 million to hit say even .280 with 30 homers and 25 sb. is absolutley retarded.You're right dude, we shouldn't sign beltran because 99% of the world is poor. I see where you're comming from now. Put my name right next to yours at the top of the list of the NO ONE SIGN BELTRAN petition. I think we should sign the cripple Right Fielder who has some bone disease that I've never heard of to a 15 million dollar a year contract, good thinking! I'm sure losing a step or two to this injury will make him SOOOOOOOOOOO Much better, maybe we should give him 16 million a year to make sure no one else makes a bid! Slow Power hitting Right Fielders are hard to find now adays. And our Farmsystem is just loaded with switch hitting All Star Centerfield Talent! What was I thining, I'm glad you brought me back to my sences!


P.S. Find me a Switch hitting CF (Or anything for that matter) that Can Steal 30-40 bases bat .286 Score 100 runs and drive in 100 RBI and hit 20+ HR and I'll gladly give them 15 million a year too... go ahead find me one... I'll be waiting...

steff
08-12-2004, 01:11 PM
Why the constant discussion over Beltran...his agent is Scott Boras...he's not coming here.
Lip

People like tha pain from the banging of their head on a brick wall..? :tongue:

maurice
08-12-2004, 01:15 PM
Didn't we do this thread already?

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 01:19 PM
You're right dude, we shouldn't sign beltran because 99% of the world is poor. I see where you're comming from now. Put my name right next to yours at the top of the list of the NO ONE SIGN BELTRAN petition. I think we should sign the cripple Right Fielder who has some bone disease that I've never heard of to a 15 million dollar a year contract, good thinking! I'm sure losing a step or two to this injury will make him SOOOOOOOOOOO Much better, maybe we should give him 16 million a year to make sure no one else makes a bid! Slow Power hitting Right Fielders are hard to find now adays. And our Farmsystem is just loaded with switch hitting All Star Centerfield Talent! What was I thining, I'm glad you brought me back to my sences!
I never said lets resign Maggs for that price either, I just saying BELTRAN is not worth it. I Said he cannot replace Maggs. And he can't, Giambi was an all-star too, In what way did I say people being poor had to do with signing Beltran? I used that analogy to show you that, Just because the majoity is one way does not make it right.

Tekijawa
08-12-2004, 01:40 PM
Just because the majoity is one way does not make it right.A majority of the United states voted for Gore... here we are, that alone should prove that the Majority should always be followed.

eshunn2001
08-12-2004, 01:44 PM
A majority of the United states voted for Gore... here we are, that alone should prove that the Majority should always be followed.
LOL... True. But Do you really think it matters who the president is? Gore probably would have been terrible too. But not any worse i guess.

SoxxoS
08-12-2004, 02:10 PM
LOL... True. But Do you really think it matters who the president is? Gore probably would have been terrible too. But not any worse i guess.
That should be Kerry's campaign slogan. I'm terrible, but not nearly as terrible as the incumbent.

batmanZoSo
08-12-2004, 02:49 PM
Have you seen what Beltran has done to the Sox over the years? He is a switch hitting power hitter with speed and he plays very good defense. There is nothing he can't do on the field.

Matt Clement is going to command a 3-4 year deal at 8-9m per. Not a CHANCE JR gives Kenny the OK on that one.
If that's all Clement wants, conisder it done. That's basically the exact deal we gave Garcia, come on. We're just not getting any pitcher looking for 5 year deals. Three years with options on the fourth, yes. And at 8 or 9 million, it's well within our grasp.

FightingBillini
08-12-2004, 06:56 PM
A majority of the United states voted for Gore... here we are, that alone should prove that the Majority should always be followed.
If ignorance is bliss, you must be absolutely euphoric. Once again, I thank everyone who brings leftist propaganda into the clubhouse. Like anyone with common sense knows, if there was no electoral college, more people would have voted in states which leaned heavily towards one party (ex. a republican in Mass. who knows his vote wont change the outcome). We cant even speculate on what might have been.

You are wrong. Gore lost. Get over it.
Now lets talk some more friggin baseball.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 07:55 PM
yeah Jones is better than Beltran in the field
Andruw Jones is NOT better in the field than Beltran. Not anymore.

He is lazy, heavy and has bad knees.

Beltran is in the top tier of defensive CF in baseball, period. Watch some damn baseball.

And no, I won't want Beltran at 140/8 or whatever Boras is charging these days.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 07:58 PM
8-9 Mill. f that's all Clement wants, conisder it done..Matt Clement's arm is gonna fall off from throwing all those sliders. He's really had 1 year where he was worth 9 Mill a year.

**** his fugly ass.

Bring on Gil Meche and use the 9 Mill to get some mother****ing offense up in heah.

kitekrazy
08-12-2004, 09:45 PM
Well lets look at recent history. I doubt we'll sign any big names. We usually let them go and sign more Juan Uribes.

hawkeyesrule
08-13-2004, 09:08 AM
Something for all the Pavano supporters to remember is that his arm has already fallen off once. Didn't he have a complete reconstruction or something a few years back?

eshunn2001
08-13-2004, 11:01 AM
Andruw Jones is NOT better in the field than Beltran. Not anymore.

He is lazy, heavy and has bad knees.

Beltran is in the top tier of defensive CF in baseball, period. Watch some damn baseball.

And no, I won't want Beltran at 140/8 or whatever Boras is charging these days.
I watch the Braves every day, He is not lazy, How many Braves games have you watched? You are absolutley flat out wrong. He has won 6 Gold Gloves at 27, He saves at least .5 a run a game, They are the same age. We have all 5 of us at the house everyday including my nieghbors who watch every sinlge Braves/ Whitesox / Dodgers game played. You need to watch some damn baseball my friend. Just beacause you heard some dude on sportscenter say it does not mean it is true.

eshunn2001
08-13-2004, 11:03 AM
And just to let you know I don't want Jones at 12.0m or Beltran at 15.0 to 17 m a year.

nodiggity59
08-13-2004, 11:15 AM
To me, Russ Ortiz looks pretty attractive. Post season experience, bulldog mentality. Either way, what I hope the White Sox do is look at this class of FA starters (Pedro, Pavano, Clement, Perez, Ortiz, Lowe, Millwood, and Milton) and sign whichever is cheapest FROM THIS GROUP. None of them are truly blue chip, throw money at them types IMO. That said, we need one of them to have the dominant rotation KW seems to want.

Hopefully, we won't have to pay 3/4 years 27/36mil. I'm hoping more in the 3/4 20/26 mil range with the last year as an option.

Gimm
08-13-2004, 11:15 AM
I watch the Braves every day, He is not lazy, How many Braves games have you watched? You are absolutley flat out wrong. He has won 6 Gold Gloves at 27, He saves at least .5 a run a game, They are the same age. We have all 5 of us at the house everyday including my nieghbors who watch every sinlge Braves/ Whitesox / Dodgers game played. You need to watch some damn baseball my friend. Just beacause you heard some dude on sportscenter say it does not mean it is true.
TNT, hello! Cubs games on WGN, hello! I also watched him in person at USCF earlier this year and he misplayed 2 balls REEEEAAALLY badly.

You must have forgotten your glasses in 2003 and 2004 if you claim Andruw is the same defensive (or baserunning) player he was in, say, 1999 or even 2002. Please. Cameron, Kotsay, Hunter and Beltran were all easily as good as Andruw in 2003.

As for your claim he saves .50 runs a game with his glove....pure speculation. I can say Beltran saves 2 runs a game with his glove just as easily.

eshunn2001
08-13-2004, 12:49 PM
TNT, hello! Cubs games on WGN, hello! I also watched him in person at USCF earlier this year and he misplayed 2 balls REEEEAAALLY badly.

You must have forgotten your glasses in 2003 and 2004 if you claim Andruw is the same defensive (or baserunning) player he was in, say, 1999 or even 2002. Please. Cameron, Kotsay, Hunter and Beltran were all easily as good as Andruw in 2003.

As for your claim he saves .50 runs a game with his glove....pure speculation. I can say Beltran saves 2 runs a game with his glove just as easily.
Yeah that is why houstons rotation is giving up more runs a game since he took over center field. Not that i Blame it on him but he sure as hell is not saving 2 runs a game, TNT does not play as mant Braves games as it used to and if you do watch the braves, you really should know more about Jones I am not saying we should get him by any means but he is Incredible still.

habibharu
08-13-2004, 12:54 PM
Yeah that is why houstons rotation is giving up more runs a game since he took over center field. Not that i Blame it on him but he sure as hell is not saving 2 runs a game, TNT does not play as mant Braves games as it used to and if you do watch the braves, you really should know more about Jones I am not saying we should get him by any means but he is Incredible still. TNT doesent play braves games, its TBS

hold2dibber
08-13-2004, 01:18 PM
To me, Russ Ortiz looks pretty attractive. Post season experience, bulldog mentality. Either way, what I hope the White Sox do is look at this class of FA starters (Pedro, Pavano, Clement, Perez, Ortiz, Lowe, Millwood, and Milton) and sign whichever is cheapest FROM THIS GROUP. None of them are truly blue chip, throw money at them types IMO. That said, we need one of them to have the dominant rotation KW seems to want.

Hopefully, we won't have to pay 3/4 years 27/36mil. I'm hoping more in the 3/4 20/26 mil range with the last year as an option.
I wouldn't touch Lowe, Ortiz or Millwood with a ten foot pole - especially for anything close to 3 years and $20 million - that would be lunacy. The Sox can do better (or every bit as good) for far, far less than those guys will probably get. Plus, none of them are any good (Millwood has his moments, but he's not worth the $ he'll be asking for). I'd be interested in Milton only if he was way cheap (i.e., 2 years at $3.5 million per). Pedro or Pavano would be great. Clement intrigues me, but he's been inconsistent and, as others have said, he seems like a Tommy John surgery (or worse) waiting to happen. He's a tough call.

Win1ForMe
08-13-2004, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't touch Lowe, Ortiz or Millwood with a ten foot pole - especially for anything close to 3 years and $20 million - that would be lunacy. The Sox can do better (or every bit as good) for far, far less than those guys will probably get. Plus, none of them are any good (Millwood has his moments, but he's not worth the $ he'll be asking for). I'd be interested in Milton only if he was way cheap (i.e., 2 years at $3.5 million per). Pedro or Pavano would be great. Clement intrigues me, but he's been inconsistent and, as others have said, he seems like a Tommy John surgery (or worse) waiting to happen. He's a tough call.
I don't understand the problems with Ortiz? He's had 3 very good seasons in a row and has no injury problems to speak of. OTOH, this is Pavano's first good season and he's been injured before, same with Pedro. Clement, much like Pavano, has been inconsistent in his career. Really, Ortiz may be the safest bet out of all the FA pitchers.

nodiggity59
08-13-2004, 01:40 PM
I don't understand the problems with Ortiz? He's had 3 very good seasons in a row and has no injury problems to speak of. OTOH, this is Pavano's first good season and he's been injured before, same with Pedro. Clement, much like Pavano, has been inconsistent in his career. Really, Ortiz may be the safest bet out of all the FA pitchers.
I agree. I would love to see Ortiz in a Sox uni for 3 years 20mil, which is slightly more than he is making now.

Gimm
08-13-2004, 02:14 PM
I wouldn't touch Lowe, Ortiz or Millwood with a ten foot pole - especially for anything close to 3 years and $20 million - that would be lunacy. The Sox can do better (or every bit as good) for far, far less than those guys will probably get. Plus, none of them are any good (Millwood has his moments, but he's not worth the $ he'll be asking for). I'd be interested in Milton only if he was way cheap (i.e., 2 years at $3.5 million per). Pedro or Pavano would be great. Clement intrigues me, but he's been inconsistent and, as others have said, he seems like a Tommy John surgery (or worse) waiting to happen. He's a tough call.

Who knows, maybe Randy Johnson changes his mind and approves an off-season trade.


I see Garcia and Buerhle as more #2 types (who are just entering their prime and might become #1 in a couple of years), and Contreras and Garland could be outstanding as #4 and #5 respectively.

Big Unit will be making 10 Mill in 2005, with 6 Mill deferred. If Sox are planning another WS push next year....then might as well take a one-year gamble on somebody as good and as marketable as Big Unit rather than giving unproven Pavano or Clement the big dough for 4 years. I think Unit has at least 1 really good year left in him.

Unit (10 + def)
Garcia (8.5)
Buerhle (5.5)
Contreras (6)
Garland (3?)

2B Harris/Hairston
CF Rowand
DH Frank (8)
LF Lee (8.5)
1B Konerko (8.5)
RF Everett (4)
SS Valentin (3?)
3B Uribe/Crede
C Burke/Davis

Shingo (2.5)
Marte (1.5)
Politte (1.5)
Cotts
Bajenaru
Munoz



Of course, if JR is not planning to expand the 2005 budget to 75-78 Mill levels, then disregard the above. Hopefully, with the revenue increases across the board this year, Comcast and rev. sharing next year, he does the smart thing and loosens the purse strings a bit. Is 20% too much to ask?

Gimm
08-13-2004, 02:52 PM
Who knows, maybe Randy Johnson changes his mind and approves an off-season trade.

I see Garcia and Buerhle as more #2 types (who are just entering their prime and might become #1 in a couple of years), and Contreras and Garland could be outstanding as #4 and #5 respectively.

Big Unit will be making 10 Mill in 2005, with 6 Mill deferred. If Sox are planning another WS push next year....then might as well take a one-year gamble on somebody as good and as marketable as Big Unit rather than giving unproven Pavano or Clement the big dough for 4 years. I think Unit has at least 1 really good year left in him.

Unit (10 + def)
Garcia (8.5)
Buerhle (5.5)
Contreras (6)
Garland (3?)

2B Harris/Hairston
CF Rowand
DH Frank (8)
LF Lee (8.5)
1B Konerko (8.5)
RF Everett (4)
SS Valentin (3?)
3B Uribe/Crede
C Burke/Davis

Shingo (2.5)
Marte (1.5)
Politte (1.5)
Cotts
Bajenaru
Munoz


Of course, if JR is not planning to expand the 2005 budget to 75-78 Mill levels, then disregard the above. Hopefully, with the revenue increases across the board this year, Comcast and rev. sharing next year, he does the smart thing and loosens the purse strings a bit. Is 20% too much to ask?

Bench won't be expensive.

hold2dibber
08-13-2004, 03:41 PM
I don't understand the problems with Ortiz? He's had 3 very good seasons in a row and has no injury problems to speak of. OTOH, this is Pavano's first good season and he's been injured before, same with Pedro. Clement, much like Pavano, has been inconsistent in his career. Really, Ortiz may be the safest bet out of all the FA pitchers.
Whoops - I completely forgot about Russ Ortiz; I thought the original post was referring to Ramon Ortiz. :redneck

I'd like to see Russ Ortiz in a Sox uni, although I think he would suffer some due to going from the NL to the AL (Ortiz allows a lot of runners for a guy who usually has a pretty good ERA and doesn't strike many guys out - my guess is that he would pay the price for those extra base runners more often in the AL than he does in the NL).