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Jerry_Manuel
08-11-2004, 02:19 PM
Hal had this in his column this week, and I'm shocked nobody has said anything about it.

The good news for the Sox is that if Ordoņez comes back healthy from the bone marrow edema he has been sidelined with, other clubs may not want to risk paying him a salary comparable to Vlad Guerrero. The bad news for everyone is that there are persistent rumors that Ordoņez will never recover from this injury.
I've heard the same thing Hal has, he may not ever be at 100% again. So I guess it begs the question should the Sox still try and sign him if he's not the same player?

Gimm
08-11-2004, 02:33 PM
Hal had this in his column this week, and I'm shocked nobody has said anything about it.


I've heard the same thing Hal has, he may not ever be at 100% again. So I guess it begs the question should the Sox still try and sign him if he's not the same player?
Well, OF COURSE they should try to sign him!

This organization cannot afford losing a fan-favorite All-Star who still has an outside chance at a HOF career (Edgar Martinez didn't become "Edgar" until he was almost 30) over pettiness and pennies. You save a mill or two, but you lose 20-fold in future profits because of damaned fan relations and massive loss of good will. Look at the Sox now, they have to pay for PR disasters made in the 80's - EIGHTIES!!

At the same time, 5 year/75 Mill figure should be out of the question. I wouldn't even pay that money to Beltran if I am the Sox GM. Magglio got into bad habits at the plate after winning the Las Vegas Home Run Derby before the 2003 season and hasn't really been the same hitter since. 2004 was his chance to show that still has a HOFer's talent and as such deserves at least 13-14 Mill a year. Instead, he gave us 830 OPS and a very unspectacular baserunning and defense.

Plus you got the bone marrow edema, which could be career-threatening.

Give him a 1-year, heavily incentive-ied deal to prove himself in 2005. And then go from there.

JDP
08-11-2004, 02:36 PM
Give him a 1-year, heavily incentive-ied deal to prove himself in 2005. And then go from there.
$1.0M base + $1.0M 130+ games + $1.0M .300BA + $1.0M AS appearance + $1.0M 30 HRs + $1.0M 100 RBIs.

*nods*






Hey, #500 finally.

CWWTWS1
08-11-2004, 02:38 PM
Ordonez will never wear Sox black again. He does not WANT to be here anymore. He'll get his money from the Mets and the Sox will make a play for J.D. Drew, IMHO.

bobj4400
08-11-2004, 02:38 PM
$1.0M base + $1.0M 130+ games + $1.0M .300BA + $1.0M AS appearance + $1.0M 30 HRs + $1.0M 100 RBIs.

*nods*






Hey, #500 finally.
Congrats on #500...now if you changed all the 1.0M's to 2.0M's, they might (I stress MIGHT) not laugh you out of the room. Someone will still pay him a fully guaranteed 12M though...

*thinks Mets and laughs*

MisterB
08-11-2004, 02:43 PM
Hal had this in his column this week, and I'm shocked nobody has said anything about it.


I've heard the same thing Hal has, he may not ever be at 100% again. So I guess it begs the question should the Sox still try and sign him if he's not the same player?The more of this I hear, the less I think the media has really checked into it. My look around the medical texts showed that bone marrow edema is not a diagnosis in itself. It's a secondary condition (more like a symptom, really) to some other bone/joint problem such as a trauma (like running into light-hitting secondbasemen...) or osteoporosis & osteoarthritis. There was a mention of another condition (transient osteoporosis) which seems to me would be the primary diagnosis. As the name implies, T.O. is a temporary condition that usually clears up in 2-3 months. Unless there has been a change in that diagnosis, his 'never being able to recover' is just that: a persistent rumor. If they called BME by it's common nickname - a bone bruise - I don't think the media would be doomsaying like this.

Baby Fisk
08-11-2004, 02:43 PM
Congrats on #500...now if you changed all the 1.0M's to 2.0M's, they might (I stress MIGHT) not laugh you out of the room. Someone will still pay him a fully guaranteed 12M though...

*thinks Mets and laughs*Good point, I forgot about the Mets. Maybe Baltimore! ho ho! :cool:

skobabe8
08-11-2004, 02:45 PM
Congrats on #500...now if you changed all the 1.0M's to 2.0M's, they might (I stress MIGHT) not laugh you out of the room. Someone will still pay him a fully guaranteed 12M though...

*thinks Mets and laughs*

Exactly. That would be a great deal for us, a little too great as a matter of fact. Someone will take a chance and throw some money/more years his way if we dont.

Rocky Soprano
08-11-2004, 02:48 PM
I dont know why people say that Maggs simply doesnt want to be here.

A couple of weeks ago I heard that Maggs told Mark that as soon as they got back from the road he was going ot talk to Jerry to make sure he stayed. Unfortunately he went back on the DL.

With the injury I would try to work a deal that works for both parties. If the Sox dont resign Maggs, we all know its going to be a PR disaster.

habibharu
08-11-2004, 02:49 PM
theres no way we will get maggs. the mets are gonna throw a ****load of money at him even though he is hurt

Gimm
08-11-2004, 02:53 PM
$1.0M base + $1.0M 130+ games + $1.0M .300BA + $1.0M AS appearance + $1.0M 30 HRs + $1.0M 100 RBIs.

*nods*






Hey, #500 finally.No, no - you still have to give him what other teams won't.

It's Magglio, not some interchangeable schmuck.....remember?

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 02:54 PM
I dont know why people say that Maggs simply doesnt want to be here.

A couple of weeks ago I heard that Maggs told Mark that as soon as they got back from the road he was going ot talk to Jerry to make sure he stayed. Unfortunately he went back on the DL.

With the injury I would try to work a deal that works for both parties. If the Sox dont resign Maggs, we all know its going to be a PR disaster.
It was reported that the Sox came up to or very close to the 5-yr/70mil he initially asked for. However, there were some deferrals and something int he 5th year that gave the team some protection in case of injury/reduced performance, but that in KW's words was "nothing to take away from the overall dollars".

Given that MLB rules on deferred $$$ now require it all to be paid within 2 years of the contract's completion, the reduction in contract value due to possible deferrals is pretty minor. That Maggs said it was unacceptable leads one to infer that he isn't willing to stay at any discount to his initial offer. Combine that with the fact that his initial desire was a Vlad-type of contract (despite him not being a Vlad-type of player), and you can infer that he wants to test the market in hopes of breaking the bank, or that he simply wants to play somewhere else.

I can't speak to the veracity of the report on the offer, but if true, the Sox are making a very strong effort to keep him. He's cited Tejada & Vlady as comarable deals. Tejada has similar deferrals, and Vlady has the last year on a team option. Maggs wants neither.......

Combine that with the

Blueprint1
08-11-2004, 02:55 PM
theres no way we will get maggs. the mets are gonna throw a ****load of money at him even though he is hurt
Why is everyone so sure the mets are going to be the team to sign maggs. I think the mets may be the largest player for another free agent this summer hes playing in Huston right now not Chicago

hold2dibber
08-11-2004, 02:56 PM
Well, OF COURSE they should try to sign him!

This organization cannot afford losing a fan-favorite All-Star who still has an outside chance at a HOF career (Edgar Martinez didn't become "Edgar" until he was almost 30) over pettiness and pennies. You save a mill or two, but you lose 20-fold in future profits because of damaned fan relations and massive loss of good will. Look at the Sox now, they have to pay for PR disasters made in the 80's - EIGHTIES!!

At the same time, 5 year/75 Mill figure should be out of the question. I wouldn't even pay that money to Beltran if I am the Sox GM. Magglio got into bad habits at the plate after winning the Las Vegas Home Run Derby before the 2003 season and hasn't really been the same hitter since. 2004 was his chance to show that still has a HOFer's talent and as such deserves at least 13-14 Mill a year. Instead, he gave us 830 OPS and a very unspectacular baserunning and defense.

Plus you got the bone marrow edema, which could be career-threatening.

Give him a 1-year, heavily incentive-ied deal to prove himself in 2005. And then go from there.
Well which is it? First you say that the Sox HAVE to sign him or risk a massive fan revolt, then you say only offer him a 1 year heavily incentive-ized deal. Which is it? I mean, I'm all in favor of the 1 year, heavily incentive-ized deal. But what if he won't sign that (and I'm guessing he won't)? Are you suggesting that the Sox should just right him a Vlad Guerrerro contract anyway? Sox fans will miss Maggs if he goes, but the Mariners became a huge draw in Seattle despite losing Griffey, Johnson and A-Rod because they started winning a ton of games and playing good baseball consistently. If Maggs leaves but the Sox use his money to sign Beltran or Pavano and a high OBP guy, which results in the same kind of success the Mariners had, no one will cry any tears over Magglio's departure.

hi8is
08-11-2004, 02:58 PM
tune in next year for ace ventura 3! the plot:

ace needs to find a penguin that has seemed to disapear.... the trail of clues lead him to find that ex-baseball star maglio ordoņez has isolated himself in the north poll, living in a pscyatric ward. after ending his carrer on a freak acedent with willie harris, maggs has never been the same and has never played baseball again. maggs has a lot of much money in the bank and he pays people to kid nap penguins which, he skins and uses the fur to make a life size model of willie harris. ace must stop ordonez before he completes his model of harris and replaces the model, with the real willie harris.

an ingury ridden, psycotic maglio orgonez
a life size model of willie harris made out of penguin skins
and ace ventura

Rocky Soprano
08-11-2004, 03:07 PM
tune in next year for ace ventura 3! the plot:

ace needs to find a penguin that has seemed to disapear.... the trail of clues lead him to find that ex-baseball star maglio ordoņez has isolated himself in the north poll, living in a pscyatric ward. after ending his carrer on a freak acedent with willie harris, maggs has never been the same and has never played baseball again. maggs has a lot of much money in the bank and he pays people to kid nap penguins which, he skins and uses the fur to make a life size model of willie harris. ace must stop ordonez before he completes his model of harris and replaces the model, with the real willie harris.

an ingury ridden, psycotic maglio orgonez
a life size model of willie harris made out of penguin skins
and ace ventura


:prozac

misty60481
08-11-2004, 03:07 PM
How come we never hear any news about our injured players?? Just a few ( he is recovering on track ) and nothing else for a month. Maggs is still under contract and getting paid so either him or team owe us an update now and then besides he is doing therapy in his swimming pool

Tekijawa
08-11-2004, 03:23 PM
I don't care where Maggs ends up I want the Sox to win a World series or two, if it "alienates" a fanbase because he's the "face of the organization then tuff F'in titties, I'd rather the Face of the organization and the cover of the schedule have a big fat DIamond in it surrounded by hundreds of little diamons and written in the surrounding gold 20XX World Champions.

What if Magglio flops, what if he doesn't recover, would you be happy with no championships and a content Magglio doing the spanish broad cast from the booth while we wonder why the legless beloved radioman isn't the the hall of fame? (Sound familiar?) I saw let him go... then go get a known comodity, make it look like an effort is being made to make a push for a championship. I think I've had enough of guys coming back from surgery, banged up, or "have potential" filling out the jerseys... If you'd even think of offering this guy a Long term contract I'd feel much better going after some one else, there will be some nice talent available next year at many positions.

Keep the Cash, Give it to Beltran, 'nuff said let's go home...

Hangar18
08-11-2004, 04:36 PM
The more of this I hear, the less I think the media has really checked into it. My look around the medical texts showed that bone marrow edema is not a diagnosis in itself. It's a secondary condition (more like a symptom, really) to some other bone/joint problem such as a trauma (like running into light-hitting secondbasemen...) ...........If they called BME by it's common nickname - a bone bruise - I don't think the media would be doomsaying like this.
You forgot ........... The Chicago Media is much too busy covering where Nomar is going to Eat Steak after games, How he will adjust to daytime games, how he will react to fans suddenly "loving" him (never mind they liked him in Boston)
and how Mia Hamms antics in the Olympics will affect the ss of the flubs.
Thats more important ......... than say checking on what the heck is really wrong with our AllStar Outfielder

Paulwny
08-11-2004, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE=JDP]$1.0M base + $1.0M 130+ games + $1.0M .300BA + $1.0M AS appearance + $1.0M 30 HRs + $1.0M 100 RBIs.

*nodsQUOTE]

It's against mlb rules to have a contract with offensive stats as an incentive., games played, plate appearances, AS appearance, etc, are allowed.

calderon
08-11-2004, 09:59 PM
maggs and his agent would never sign a one year deal, someone else(Mets) will sign him long term.

gosox41
08-12-2004, 08:36 AM
Hal had this in his column this week, and I'm shocked nobody has said anything about it.


I've heard the same thing Hal has, he may not ever be at 100% again. So I guess it begs the question should the Sox still try and sign him if he's not the same player?
Nope. Unless it's an inentive laden contract. Last thing the Sox need is to tie down 20% of their payroll in a player who amy never be the same player, let alone never play again.


Bob

mymanmaggs30
08-12-2004, 06:15 PM
if they dont sign maggs that would be the end of eveything!! why are we talking bout it?? uhhhh

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

IA_soxfan
08-12-2004, 07:19 PM
if they dont sign maggs that would be the end of eveything!! why are we talking bout it?? uhhhh

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:
:prozac

Aidan
08-12-2004, 07:43 PM
if they dont sign maggs that would be the end of eveything!! why are we talking bout it?? uhhhh

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:I still don't think you understand that players come and go. The only guy that has stayed with us forever has been Frank.

ND_Sox_Fan
08-12-2004, 08:17 PM
If there is even a question about his knee, let the Mets take him and have another Mo Vaughn on thier payroll.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 08:26 PM
If there is even a question about his knee, let the Mets take him and have another Mo Vaughn on thier payroll.
Why does everyone keep saying this?

Mets are not run by stupid people; sooner or later they will learn their lesson from 2002-2004 debacles and will modify their spending philisophy accordingly.

Look at the Dodgers - new regime, lower payroll....resulted in a team that is running away with it in the 2nd half despite not being that good on paper. Then look at the Angels and the Red Sox. Mets will be emulating Dodgers.

Give Maggs 1 year, 8-10 Mill.

ND_Sox_Fan
08-12-2004, 08:30 PM
Why does everyone keep saying this?

Mets are not run by stupid people; sooner or later they will learn their lesson from 2002-2004 debacles and will modify their spending philisophy accordingly.

Look at the Dodgers - new regime, lower payroll....resulted in a team that is running away with it in the 2nd half despite not being that good on paper. Then look at the Angels and the Red Sox. Mets will be emulating Dodgers.

Give Maggs 1 year, 8-10 Mill.
Sooner or later JR will start spending money too... Besides, he's only an 8-10 million dollar player fully healthy.

Daver
08-12-2004, 08:31 PM
Give Maggs 1 year, 8-10 Mill.
If your going to overpay for a player, then damn well do it right.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 08:35 PM
If your going to overpay for a player, then damn well do it right.I will. When Maggs shows me he can:

-run worth a damn
-field worth a damn
-hit higher than 830 OPS while playing in the best hitting park in AL



in 2005, I'll over pay in 2006 and beyond.

ND_Sox_Fan
08-12-2004, 08:42 PM
I will. When Maggs shows me he can:

-run worth a damn
-field worth a damn
-hit higher than 830 OPS while playing in the best hitting park in AL

in 2005, I'll over pay in 2006 and beyond.
Are you saying that he deserves that money in 2005 reagardless, and then you are willing to raise it further in 2006 if he meets your benchmarks?

We are saying that 8-10 million is overpaying in 2005, and rediculously if you are going to blindly pay him that money with injury questions.

Daver
08-12-2004, 08:43 PM
I will. When Maggs shows me he can:

-run worth a damn
-field worth a damn
-hit higher than 830 OPS while playing in the best hitting park in AL



in 2005, I'll over pay in 2006 and beyond.
But you'll offer him 8 mil knowing none of this.

You'd make a great GM for the Mets.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 08:48 PM
But you'll offer him 8 mil knowing none of this..
That what winterball is for.

Daver
08-12-2004, 08:52 PM
That what winterball is for.
LMAO!!!

I'm done on this subject.

Gimm
08-12-2004, 09:28 PM
LMAO!!!

I'm done on this subject.:rolleyes:

BME!