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View Full Version : What I think our biggest weakness is


SoxxoS
08-11-2004, 11:28 AM
I don't think enough has been said about what I think our biggest weakness is...inconsistancy. Inconsistancy is the reason why we have been "paper champs" the past 3 years.

Inconsistancy goes hand in hand with being mentally weak. I realize baseball is a game of streaks, but we take that to a whole new level.

Our poster child and microcosm of the White Sox is everyones favorite high-talent, mentally weak pitcher...Jon Garland.

Jon Garland is highly talented. His sinking fastball is one of the best in the game. He can throw a nice, sharp breaking curveball. He can change speed effectively. He does not, however, get the results correlated with his talent.

Sound like a team you know?

You have Willie Harris. 5 for 5 yesterday...career day. Before the last 4 games, he was about 2-50. That is just TOO inconsistant.

Our SS inconsistancy has been well documented.

How about Konerko? How can you go from being a guy on the fringe of Royce Claytonesque numbers as a first baseman in 2003, to a should-have-been All Star leading the A.L. (or second) in home runs in 2004? Somthing isn't right, there. Guys have bad years, but come on.

CLee is a very streaky power hitter, although about the closest to consistant that we have.

Politte was solid for a few weeks, then awful, then solid for a month, now recently hasn't looked that great.

Then, we have players that are just bad 80% of the time, like Joe Crede, Joe Borchard, Sandy Alomar and Mike Jackson.

Point being, we have a bunch of Ray Durhams on this team, and 0 John Oleruds. We need more steady ballplayers who we know what we are going to get from each year. Guys that are mentally strong. Being mentally strong leads to more consistancy, which will lead to a ballclub similar to our rivals, the Minnesota Twins.

Lip Man 1
08-11-2004, 11:37 AM
In a bizarre sort of way the Sox have been consistent....they have been consistently 'inconsistent'; since opening day 2001.

Lip

cornball
08-11-2004, 11:40 AM
In a bizarre sort of way the Sox have been consistent....they have been consistently 'inconsistent'; since opening day 2001.

Lip
Consistent in record.........yes, not in performance on the field.

Been underachieving consistently.

SoxxoS
08-11-2004, 11:42 AM
Consistent in record.........yes, not in performance on the field.

Been underachieving consistently.
You wouldn't think that the Sox would underachieve...look at the players and their numbers of last season...

But numbers at the end of the season don't matter. It's getting key hits and beating the right opponents at the right time. That is why I don't mind Jose Valentin too much, b/c we know he is inconsistant...but he is consistant at getting key hits at key times.

This all steams back to being "mentally weak."

CanadianSoxFan
08-11-2004, 11:49 AM
Actually, if you look at Garland's stats, he's quite consistant on a per game basis (obviously inconsistant on a per inning basis). He tends to give up around 4 runs and usually pitches 6 or 7 innings. That's actually not so bad, but he needs to make one more step where he limits his bad inning and only gives up 2 or 3 runs over 6 or 7 innings. That's the difference between Jon being a #5 and a #3. But he's still young and I still think he'll make that step up to a #3.

I do agree with you about inconsistancy. We have too many players that are hot and cold (Harris, Uribe, Valintin, Crede and to a lesser extent Lee). But more than just being inconsistant, I have noticed that the team seems to hit the same, either really good or really bad, at the same time. Either the whole team can't hit or we poound out 15 hits and score 8 runs. We wouldn't be so bad if half the lineup was off at the time the other half was on.

IMO, we only need 2 things to be a more consistanly good hitting team:
1. a top of the order guy who has a high OBP and a high average, like a Shannon Stewart. A guy who sets the table for the rest of the team to eat.
2. a middle infielder to platoon with Harris and Uribe that can really hit left handed pitching. Most of their inconsistancy is due to not hitting lefties. I'd recommend picking up Placido Polanco from the Phillies, he's great against left handers and can play 2B, SS or 3B. He's an ideal #2 hitter as well.

One more top three pitcher would be really great as well. Someone like a Pavano or Russ Ortiz and I think we'd actually have a team that could win it all.

Baby Fisk
08-11-2004, 04:27 PM
I think this team is more akin to a flock of birds. The players all tend to soar at once, scoring 10+ runs and blowing teams out. Then all of a sudden they tend to dive all at once, making dud pitchers look like stud pitchers and putting 2 hits on the board.

This seems to be the difference between the Sox & Twins last year and this. While the Twins prolly have just as many streaky players, they tend to not all go into the crapper at the same time. Some of them are able to rise to the occasion when one or more teammates go into a funk. The Sox do not do this. When the Sox hit the skids, they do it en masse. This loses games in bunches, and kills us fans.

batmanZoSo
08-11-2004, 09:11 PM
I think this team is more akin to a flock of birds. The players all tend to soar at once, scoring 10+ runs and blowing teams out. Then all of a sudden they tend to dive all at once, making dud pitchers look like stud pitchers and putting 2 hits on the board.

This seems to be the difference between the Sox & Twins last year and this. While the Twins prolly have just as many streaky players, they tend to not all go into the crapper at the same time. Some of them are able to rise to the occasion when one or more teammates go into a funk. The Sox do not do this. When the Sox hit the skids, they do it en masse. This loses games in bunches, and kills us fans.
You know why that is? Too many power hitters. Too many Credes, too many Valentins. .238 doesn't cut it. 130 strikeouts doesn't either.

kojak
08-11-2004, 10:05 PM
How can you be consistent when your only consistent players are done for the year?

Hold on, it gets worse... We are showing the door to our most consistent player!

See ya Maggs! Take your .300 BA, 30+ homers and 100+ RBI and stick 'em where the sun don't shine (which I guess would be Seattle?)

freshdill
08-11-2004, 10:50 PM
How can you be consistent when your only consistent players are done for the year?

Hold on, it gets worse... We are showing the door to our most consistent player!

See ya Maggs! Take your .300 BA, 30+ homers and 100+ RBI and stick 'em where the sun don't shine (which I guess would be Seattle?)
The only smart post of the bunch here, boys. This might be one of the dumbest threads. Every team in every sport struggles with something so general as "consistency". Consistency is what wins, so obviously it is a problem with teams that we think "underachieve". Come on now guys, this is getting ridiculous. Season's over when you lose 2 straight series to KC when you have a chance. I hope I'm wrong ...

F

CanadianSoxFan
08-11-2004, 11:00 PM
These last two games prove my (and BabyFisk's) point. Last night everyone was hitting and tonight everyone wasn't. It's not just about consistency, it's a fundamental flaw with the way this team is built. We need some guys that can get on base to compliment the guys that hit homeruns and extra base hits. We have a bunch of guys that hit homeruns and strikeout. We had this problem last year and year before that (with FT & MO) Hitting is contageous, we need people who can hit. But thanks for calling me dumb.

SoxxoS
08-11-2004, 11:58 PM
The only smart post of the bunch here, boys. This might be one of the dumbest threads. Every team in every sport struggles with something so general as "consistency". Consistency is what wins, so obviously it is a problem with teams that we think "underachieve". Come on now guys, this is getting ridiculous. Season's over when you lose 2 straight series to KC when you have a chance. I hope I'm wrong ...

FGreat post. I feel enlightened.

BigEdWalsh
08-12-2004, 09:41 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. The Sox are the masters of inconsistency. I'm sick of guys like Crede especially and his one good month a season. Garland (who I happen to still believe can be GOOD) and his one bad inning. Valentin and his anemic BA and all the whiffs. And on and on. It's pretty much the same every year. Every year we're done in by this. Time for a lot of changes.

At least Mike Jackson is pretty consistent.

jackbrohamer
08-12-2004, 10:47 AM
Crede's pretty consistent, pretty much every day he goes 0-for-3. Seems like the guy never gets a hit but he stays around .230, someone must be cooking his stats for him.

ChiSoxBobette
08-12-2004, 11:57 AM
I don't think enough has been said about what I think our biggest weakness is...inconsistancy. Inconsistancy is the reason why we have been "paper champs" the past 3 years.

Inconsistancy goes hand in hand with being mentally weak. I realize baseball is a game of streaks, but we take that to a whole new level.

Our poster child and microcosm of the White Sox is everyones favorite high-talent, mentally weak pitcher...Jon Garland.

Jon Garland is highly talented. His sinking fastball is one of the best in the game. He can throw a nice, sharp breaking curveball. He can change speed effectively. He does not, however, get the results correlated with his talent.

Sound like a team you know?

You have Willie Harris. 5 for 5 yesterday...career day. Before the last 4 games, he was about 2-50. That is just TOO inconsistant.

Our SS inconsistancy has been well documented.

How about Konerko? How can you go from being a guy on the fringe of Royce Claytonesque numbers as a first baseman in 2003, to a should-have-been All Star leading the A.L. (or second) in home runs in 2004? Somthing isn't right, there. Guys have bad years, but come on.

CLee is a very streaky power hitter, although about the closest to consistant that we have.

Politte was solid for a few weeks, then awful, then solid for a month, now recently hasn't looked that great.

Then, we have players that are just bad 80% of the time, like Joe Crede, Joe Borchard, Sandy Alomar and Mike Jackson.

Point being, we have a bunch of Ray Durhams on this team, and 0 John Oleruds. We need more steady ballplayers who we know what we are going to get from each year. Guys that are mentally strong. Being mentally strong leads to more consistancy, which will lead to a ballclub similar to our rivals, the Minnesota Twins.
What we need are team players, better 2 strike with two outs and runners in scoring position hitters, and we need players who stop saying we have more talent than the other teams in our division because we may have the better talent but the twins & indians seem to have the better team players , players who do what you have to to get a win. We on the other hand seem to have a lineup of players who when we have the bases loaded and no out are all swinging for the fences and when they get that second strike they're done 3 outs no runs.

SoxxoS
08-12-2004, 12:07 PM
Good point.

I also think we look at the numbers after the season, forgeting how fundamentally retarted our team is, and kind of "excuse them." In other words, we look at the bottom stat line in February at Crede "Well, he had a 810 OPS in the second half...he will be sure to carry that into the next year and turn into Scott Rolen lite."

Or...Look at CLee. .300 25 100. That will look great at the end of the year, when most of us forget on how many occasions he has come up in clutch situations and has failed to produce. But that gets tossed to the side in the offseason, b/c we don't physically see it anymore.

gosox41
08-12-2004, 12:09 PM
I don't think enough has been said about what I think our biggest weakness is...inconsistancy. Inconsistancy is the reason why we have been "paper champs" the past 3 years.

Inconsistancy goes hand in hand with being mentally weak. I realize baseball is a game of streaks, but we take that to a whole new level.

Our poster child and microcosm of the White Sox is everyones favorite high-talent, mentally weak pitcher...Jon Garland.

Jon Garland is highly talented. His sinking fastball is one of the best in the game. He can throw a nice, sharp breaking curveball. He can change speed effectively. He does not, however, get the results correlated with his talent.

Sound like a team you know?

You have Willie Harris. 5 for 5 yesterday...career day. Before the last 4 games, he was about 2-50. That is just TOO inconsistant.

Our SS inconsistancy has been well documented.

How about Konerko? How can you go from being a guy on the fringe of Royce Claytonesque numbers as a first baseman in 2003, to a should-have-been All Star leading the A.L. (or second) in home runs in 2004? Somthing isn't right, there. Guys have bad years, but come on.

CLee is a very streaky power hitter, although about the closest to consistant that we have.

Politte was solid for a few weeks, then awful, then solid for a month, now recently hasn't looked that great.

Then, we have players that are just bad 80% of the time, like Joe Crede, Joe Borchard, Sandy Alomar and Mike Jackson.

Point being, we have a bunch of Ray Durhams on this team, and 0 John Oleruds. We need more steady ballplayers who we know what we are going to get from each year. Guys that are mentally strong. Being mentally strong leads to more consistancy, which will lead to a ballclub similar to our rivals, the Minnesota Twins.

I think the problem may be more lack of talent then anything else.


Bob

KingXerxes
08-12-2004, 12:31 PM
I think our biggest weakness is the way whomever is in charge of stadium operations insists on piping crowd noise in through the speakers at an un-Godly rate.

I sat below the roof speakers at Sunday's game, and it's a joke at how much they do this is order to create some sort of contrived atmosphere. The whistling sounds throughout the game are also very irritating.

E Coast Sox Fan
08-12-2004, 02:04 PM
The missing ingredient is a lack of "Mental Toughness". I think the Torii Hunter play sums up this team's attitude. After that play, no one on the Sox stood up and put the twins on notice that we're going to have kick their a$$ now. Instead, they all sat around looking at each other. Simply stated, (with the exception of Rowand) they accept defeat too easily.

KingXerxes
08-12-2004, 02:55 PM
Maybe because there wasn't enough crowd noise piped into the dugout.