PDA

View Full Version : More Inside Info.....8/10/04


WSox8404
08-11-2004, 12:42 AM
Well I talked to my source again today and dug this up. I was mistaken. We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. This does not even include the money we would save if Konerko was traded and Valentin not signed. We did not get into specifics on where this money was coming from, but he was serious about it. For now, that is all.

South Side
08-11-2004, 12:45 AM
Well I talked to my source again today and dug this up. I was mistaken. We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. This does not even include the money we would save if Konerko was traded and Valentin not signed. We did not get into specifics on where this money was coming from, but he was serious about it. For now, that is all.
Not to be an ass or anything... but I have to ask, this is a reliable source that knows what he is talking about? The only reason I am asking is b/c I am a big Maggs fan and I am probably one of the only ones holding on to the idea that he will be back... Despite this, it's nice to have some inside info. Thanks.

jcirish85
08-11-2004, 12:47 AM
Well I talked to my source again today and dug this up. I was mistaken. We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. This does not even include the money we would save if Konerko was traded and Valentin not signed. We did not get into specifics on where this money was coming from, but he was serious about it. For now, that is all.
I would love that to happen, but i dont think it will. in order to get Beltran, we would have to outbid the Yankees. We will never be able to do that. We can get him to play here only if we can give close to the amount of money the yankees offer and he would rather play here.

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 12:47 AM
Not to be an ass or anything... but I have to ask, this is a reliable source that knows what he is talking about? The only reason I am asking is b/c I am a big Maggs fan and I am probably one of the only ones holding on to the idea that he will be back... Despite this, it's nice to have some inside info. Thanks.
Okay, I will tell you who he is, well not his name, but his part in the organization. He is one of the owners. Very reliable if you ask me.

Evman5
08-11-2004, 12:48 AM
I had a feeling that we may make a run at Beltran, however, I still think we need a 2/3 type pitcher and some bp upgrades!

Frankfan4life
08-11-2004, 12:48 AM
Not to be an ass or anything... but I have to ask, this is a reliable source that knows what he is talking about? The only reason I am asking is b/c I am a big Maggs fan and I am probably one of the only ones holding on to the idea that he will be back... Despite this, it's nice to have some inside info. Thanks.Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I also want Maggs back (if he is healthy).

Aidan
08-11-2004, 12:54 AM
Is JR going to go after Beltran in the same we he went after A-Rod? Throw a joke of a contract offer at him, get laughed at, and then he signs with the Yankees? I just don't see it happening. If JR won't give Maggs his $14 million a year, why would he pay out even more to Carlos Beltran? Beltran is going to want $90 million for 6 years. Granted I would love to have Beltran over Maggs -- he is an awesome glove in CF, he can steal bases, and he can hit homeruns. Beltran is worth every bit of the $15 million a year he will be asking for, while Maggs isn't worth the $14 million a year he wants But I don't see Jerry loosening the purse strings a great deal to obtain him. Although an outfield of Carlos Lee, Carlos Beltran, and Aaron Rowand would be pretty damn formidable. :o:

MRKARNO
08-11-2004, 12:59 AM
I would rather see this team go after a high quality pitcher and round out the various holes than throw all our money at Carlos Beltran

Aidan
08-11-2004, 01:02 AM
I would rather see this team go after a high quality pitcher and round out the various holes than throw all our money at Carlos BeltranWell, another good pitcher will cost us $9 million a year. Beltran at $15 million a year can be just as much of a difference maker in a lineup as a starting pitcher would be. I somewhat agree with you though. I wouldn't mind seeing a solid rotation of Garcia, Buehrle, Pavano, Contreras, and Garland and go more towards the small-ball route.

Evman5
08-11-2004, 01:04 AM
If the choice is between Beltran or fill various needs, I have to agree that we need to fill our holes. I would love to get Beltran, but not at the expense of pitching.

hi8is
08-11-2004, 01:05 AM
if our team had a starting pitching line up of....

garcia
burly
cont.
(FA pitch... like PAVANO, or ORTIZ)
and garland as A NUMBER 5!

that would be great
all we would need is an average hitting club and we would be set.... and with the people signed through 05 in the lineup, thats beyond an average hitting club

if KW has a lot of money to work with.... trade paulie, get pavano or someone of that caliber.... and get a SS with high OBS... and a LH power hitting 1B or.... pavano caliber pitcher and beltran... i know its a pipe dream, but this is the net =D

pinwheels3530
08-11-2004, 01:06 AM
Carlos Beltran agent is Scott Boras enough said.......Bring back Maggs and get another stud starter, some more bullpen help, a solid defensive shortstop that is a contact hitter and of course the BIG HURT.

South Side
08-11-2004, 01:08 AM
Carlos Beltran agent is Scott Boras enough said.......Bring back Maggs and get another stud starter, some more bullpen help, a solid defensive shortstop that is a contact hitter and of course the BIG HURT.
Exactly.

hi8is
08-11-2004, 01:09 AM
boras
eek
didnt remember that

forget it

MRKARNO
08-11-2004, 01:14 AM
Well, another good pitcher will cost us $9 million a year. Beltran at $15 million a year can be just as much of a difference maker in a lineup as a starting pitcher would be. I somewhat agree with you though. I wouldn't mind seeing a solid rotation of Garcia, Buehrle, Pavano, Contreras, and Garland and go more towards the small-ball route.
The best plan is to build around starting pitching because that's the plan that will win more often than not. I think Pavano is good, but I'm not sure he's the surest pitcher for 9 million we could get. If Clement was going around 9 mil, I'd give it to him and if Pedro was going around 10-11 mil then I think we might be well served to go that route (and hope that this year was a fluke). Odalis Perez would also probably be a pretty good guy to throw 7 mil a year at (his 2.92 has not been due to Dodger Stadium as he has a 2.66 ERA on the road). Odalis might actually be the best option. Russ Ortiz would be a good option too. We can get decent hitting on the cheap. If you keep Thomas, Lee and Konerko then you dont need to do too much work except to acquire a 3B or SS and another outfielder or you could go with a Lee-Harris-Rowand outfield if need be with Roberto resigned for 2B. Then you also need 2 bullpen arms. I feel confident going into next season with a Davis/Burke combo at catcher. Uribe can play short or third depending on who we bring in. My Priority list looks like this:

1 (tie). Quality Bullpen arm
1 (tie). Top-notch Starting pitcher
3. Valentin Replacement
4. 2nd Bullpen arm
5. Outfielder

Aidan
08-11-2004, 01:20 AM
I'm not so high on Clement as some of you guys. If you look at his career numbers, this is really his first good year. Granted, he has gotten no run support this year so his record sucks but look at his previous seasons. He is 68 - 73 with a 4.30 ERA on his career. A career 4.30 ERA is not that great, especially when he has been in the N.L. for his entire career. He has been "wildly" inconsistent, no pun intended. He seems to throw wild pitches in the worst situations (i.e. runner at 3rd base). I would pass on Clement and his Amish beard.

MRKARNO
08-11-2004, 01:27 AM
I'm not so high on Clement as some of you guys. If you look at his career numbers, this is really his first good year. Granted, he has gotten no run support this year so his record sucks but look at his previous seasons. He is 68 - 73 with a 4.30 ERA on his career. A career 4.30 ERA is not that great, especially when he has been in the N.L. for his entire career. He has been "wildly" inconsistent, no pun intended. He seems to throw wild pitches in the worst situations (i.e. runner at 3rd base). I would pass on Clement and his Amish beard. I dont see why you're so high on Pavano and so low on Clement. Pavano has had only one good year and one mediocre year. In his mediocre year he had a 5+ ERA on the road. Clement has had 2 good years and one decent year out of the last 3 and his K/9 rate is really good, though that 4 ERA on the road is a bit worrisome. But if you can keep your HR rate down and your K rate up, then you're generally in good shape. I also think it's fair to throw out Clement's earlier years when evaluating how good he will be over the next three years. They might end up being even (Clement and Pavano) or Pavano better, but Clement is the more proven commodity

kittle42
08-11-2004, 01:32 AM
You know, these aren't exactly earth-shattering predictions.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 01:36 AM
You know, these aren't exactly earth-shattering predictions.Damn dude, if they aren't "earth-shattering predictions" to you, why even bother posting in this thread? Do you think anyone here needs or even wants your input?

doublem23
08-11-2004, 01:39 AM
I would rather see this team go after a high quality pitcher and round out the various holes than throw all our money at Carlos Beltran
Have you not noticed how offensively bad this team is when Maggs and Frank are gone. Frank said he's gonna be back, and if Maggs won't then he needs to be replaced. That's a priority.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 01:45 AM
Have you not noticed how offensively bad this team is when Maggs and Frank are gone. Frank said he's gonna be back, and if Maggs won't then he needs to be replaced. That's a priority.Well, there are a few reasons that Maggs isn't worth $14 million a year and Beltran is worth $15+ million a year...

1.) Beltran plays the hardest position in baseball at CF and plays it extremely well. Maggs is only an average right fielder.
2.) Beltran can steal bases. Maggs cannot.
3.) Beltran has never had a serious injury to my knowledge. Maggs' injury makes him a big risk to sign to a long-term deal.
4.) Beltran can switch-hit while Maggs cannot.
5.) Beltran is 3 years younger than Maggs.

Maggs is a great player but he is not the all-around package that Beltran is. If Beltran only costs us a couple more million a year than Maggs, then why not sign him? A Lee, Beltran, Rowand outfield would be damn good offensively and defensively.

nodiggity59
08-11-2004, 02:10 AM
At $15mil per year, Beltran is a STEAL!!! This guy can put up Maggs like numbers with great defense and steal threat for only $1mil more? Where do I sign???


That being said, something tells me King George will go for more than$15mil. I personally think he's worth$18mil to us. If you take into account he's more valuable than Maggs and that we're not WASTING money on Koch now, I say sign him at up to 18.

Also, if Valentin has to go to accomodate this, fine--> HE GONE. With Uribe at short Beltran in center, this team becomes one of the best on defense with solid pitching. All's we would need is to shore up the bullpen.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 02:14 AM
At $15mil per year, Beltran is a STEAL!!! This guy can put up Maggs like numbers with great defense and steal threat for only $1mil more? Where do I sign???


That being said, something tells me King George will go for more than$15mil. I personally think he's worth$18mil to us. If you take into account he's more valuable than Maggs and that we're not WASTING money on Koch now, I say sign him at up to 18.

Also, if Valentin has to go to accomodate this, fine--> HE GONE. With Uribe at short Beltran in center, this team becomes one of the best on defense with solid pitching. All's we would need is to shore up the bullpen.I don't really see Beltran getting that much more money than Vladimir Guerrero at $18 million a season, but who knows? It could happen with the flurry of bids he could get. I only see one team giving him that kind of money though -- the Evil Empire. :whiner:

princek
08-11-2004, 02:39 AM
Carlos Beltran is not worth 18 mil/yr , we would be much wiser to invest in Odalis Perez or Pavano, and some top of the order good obp guys like Catallanato and for god sakes shore up the horrific bullpen. No use in putting your eggs all in one basket with Beltran.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 02:43 AM
Carlos Beltran is not worth 18 mil/yr , we would be much wiser to invest in Odalis Perez or Pavano, and some top of the order good obp guys like Catallanato and for god sakes shore up the horrific bullpen. No use in putting your eggs all in one basket with Beltran.I agree with that. However, I do think he is worth $15 million a year since Maggs wants $14 million a year but $18 million a year is just too much to spend on one guy. Only the Yankees do that kind of stuff, oh, and the Cubs with the underachieving Sosa. :tongue:

CWSGuy406
08-11-2004, 03:07 AM
For all of you guys wanting to throw tons and tons of money at Beltran - look how a big contract can stranglehold a team. We're not the Yankees. We have to be wise with our money, and an 18 million dollar contract would really bog us down, IMHO. And - while Beltran may be younger and faster, a healthy Maggs is still better offensively than Beltran (I'm not advocating resigning Maggs.)

Beltran's numbers this year with Houston: .235 AVG, .320 OBP, 27 HR (Combined KC and Houston), 77 RBIs (combined). Really - not the player we need. Sure, he'd be nice to have, but at 16 million per year? You want Vlad type money, you best put up Vlad type numbers.

If it's true, that we have that much money to throw around. I'd rather throw some money at Pedro Martinez - which would make our staff one of the best, if not the best, in the AL.

If we've learned anything this year, it's not to invest most of your money in just one or two guys. Spread it out - like Karno said, build through pitching. Strengthen the bullpen! All World Series caliber teams have excellent bullpens - if we can find one more pitcher who can get us to the eighth with Politte/Marte, then to the ninth and Shingo, we will be set.

My priorities are as follows:

1.)A lefty, OBP bat. Catalanatto. Hell - throw money at JD Drew if he enters FA.
2.)TIE Bullpen help and another #2, #3 starting pitcher (Pedro, if possible.)
4.)Speed - and grinders.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 03:39 AM
Beltran's numbers this year with Houston: .235 AVG, .320 OBP, 27 HR (Combined KC and Houston), 77 RBIs (combined). Really - not the player we need. Sure, he'd be nice to have, but at 16 million per year? You want Vlad type money, you best put up Vlad type numbers.Why do you post Beltran's combined HR and RBI totals and not his combined batting average? That is very slanted imo. He is hitting .263 with a .350 OBP on the season. .263 isn't great but it sounds alot better than .235.

By the way, what kind of money do you think Pedro is going to want? He is making $17,500,000 this season and he is having a pretty good season at 12-4 with a 3.94 ERA. He may cost us just as much as Beltran. Granted, Pedro's ERA is higher than it normally is; he is still going to want alot of money via free agency. So much for not investing "most of your money in just one or two guys".

CanBuehrleWait
08-11-2004, 04:07 AM
Hey First Time Poster. :D: Anyways just would like to point something out. Before every one goes and says that King George will buy Beltran keep in mind that their outfield is already set. Williams, Matsui and Sheffield are locked up through 2005. Now it would not be a suprising if they pull some Yankee antics and move Williams to DH to make room for Beltran... But this will probably be largely contigent on Gianbi's status. An eariler post pointed out Beltrans current contract year numbers aren't that great.. (.263 avg). So it may not be so far fetched to go after him. However I also agree we have some other major holes to fill so we'll just have to wait and see what route Kenny goes.

Aidan
08-11-2004, 04:20 AM
If the Red Sox showed any interest in signing Beltran, Steinbrenner would swoop in and sign him. Regardless of Giambi's health status, the Yankees would put Beltran in CF, make Bernie the DH, and resign Olerud to play 1B. If Giambi can play next season, they just won't resign Olerud and Giambi will play 1B. Bernie Williams isn't getting any younger at 35, almost 36, so I could see him being their full-time DH. I still think even if Boston doesn't show any interest in Beltran, Steinbrenner will try to sign him.

nitetrain8601
08-11-2004, 04:38 AM
Is JR going to go after Beltran in the same we he went after A-Rod? Throw a joke of a contract offer at him, get laughed at, and then he signs with the Yankees? I just don't see it happening. If JR won't give Maggs his $14 million a year, why would he pay out even more to Carlos Beltran? Beltran is going to want $90 million for 6 years. Granted I would love to have Beltran over Maggs -- he is an awesome glove in CF, he can steal bases, and he can hit homeruns. Beltran is worth every bit of the $15 million a year he will be asking for, while Maggs isn't worth the $14 million a year he wants But I don't see Jerry loosening the purse strings a great deal to obtain him. Although an outfield of Carlos Lee, Carlos Beltran, and Aaron Rowand would be pretty damn formidable. :o:
Actually that wasn't a joke deal. There's a reason Sox were in the Top 3 and not even his Mets were. Sox gave him a good deal at the table. He just wasted time and wanted money. That's why he signed with the poor lowly Texas Rangers. They just dissasembled while the Sox and Mariners were on their way up(at least one of them). I'm sick of people blaming things on JR. He's opened up the wallet. And don't forget, he's not the only one running the show back in the office.

Anyway, if we could get Beltran for 15 mil a year and sign a good pitcher that's great. I would accept taking Pedro(he's a CTC[cut the check] guy too) then I would go after him. He would also teach our pitching staff a lesson. Or we could sign Beltran and get a ground ball pitcher in Derek Lowe(I know he's having a down year, but he's been playing with horrible defense and it is Fenway) who's the cheaper option. I don't see why that wouldn't work. Also Valentin has to go, not only because he's sucking, but because he's getting old. This team also needs to decide, if they are going to play the young guys(Willie and Joe C and Uribe) or go try to win it all. Playing these guys sparingly(with the exception of Crede) is hurting development. We all saw that with Rowand.

Win1ForMe
08-11-2004, 04:58 AM
About this $20 M of extra money we seem to have ready to spend (and I'll believe when I see it), could it be possible that it would come from the Comcast cable deal?

OEO Magglio
08-11-2004, 05:00 AM
About this $20 M of extra money we seem to have ready to spend (and I'll believe when I see it), could it be possible that it would come from the Comcast cable deal?I'm very skeptical of that, that's all I'm going to say.

samram
08-11-2004, 08:44 AM
Why do you post Beltran's combined HR and RBI totals and not his combined batting average? That is very slanted imo. He is hitting .263 with a .350 OBP on the season. .263 isn't great but it sounds alot better than .235.

By the way, what kind of money do you think Pedro is going to want? He is making $17,500,000 this season and he is having a pretty good season at 12-4 with a 3.94 ERA. He may cost us just as much as Beltran. Granted, Pedro's ERA is higher than it normally is; he is still going to want alot of money via free agency. So much for not investing "most of your money in just one or two guys".
Looking at those numbers, it seems as if Beltran shuts it down a little bit when his team isn't in the race. He had a great year last year when KC contended, but this year, his BA and OBP are off.

Also, no pitcher is going to get $15M in this market. After what happened with guys like Mike Hampton, Denny Neagle, and Kevin Brown, I think teams are wary of paying more than $10M or $11M for pitchers. Add to that Pedro's age and wear and tear on his arm, and I think he'll get around $10M. For the Sox, Odalis Perez, IMO, would be the best option. Another cheaper option would be Aaron Sele, who is 7-0 this year, although he always seems to have injury problems. I think they should also keep an eye on El Duque, who may be getting things together, finally.

I think a RH set-up guy is imperative. They should sign either Scott Williamson or Felix Rodriguez. The second-tier guys include Jeff Nelson, Paul Shuey (who's been hurt), and Roberto Hernandez, but that spot needs to be addressed. I also think they need a legitimate left-handed power hitter, whether they get it through trade or FA. I don't think Carl Everett is that anymore. They also need to have a better idea about the lead-off spot, although maybe Willie (don't count on it) or Alomar can fill that spot.

gosox41
08-11-2004, 08:54 AM
Well I talked to my source again today and dug this up. I was mistaken. We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. This does not even include the money we would save if Konerko was traded and Valentin not signed. We did not get into specifics on where this money was coming from, but he was serious about it. For now, that is all.
We'll go after Beltran kind of like we went after A-Rod. I hate when the Sox do this.

I don't doubt they will call his agent, but Boras hates the Sox and to think he will sign here isn't realistic.

But everyone, feel free to make our your pretend lineups with Beltran in it.

Good to hear they have $20 mill more to spend for next year in addition to what's already signed. But I'm sure some fans are going to complain about not spending enough even though attendance is up.



Bob

gosox41
08-11-2004, 08:57 AM
The best plan is to build around starting pitching because that's the plan that will win more often than not. I think Pavano is good, but I'm not sure he's the surest pitcher for 9 million we could get. If Clement was going around 9 mil, I'd give it to him and if Pedro was going around 10-11 mil then I think we might be well served to go that route (and hope that this year was a fluke). Odalis Perez would also probably be a pretty good guy to throw 7 mil a year at (his 2.92 has not been due to Dodger Stadium as he has a 2.66 ERA on the road). Odalis might actually be the best option. Russ Ortiz would be a good option too. We can get decent hitting on the cheap. If you keep Thomas, Lee and Konerko then you dont need to do too much work except to acquire a 3B or SS and another outfielder or you could go with a Lee-Harris-Rowand outfield if need be with Roberto resigned for 2B. Then you also need 2 bullpen arms. I feel confident going into next season with a Davis/Burke combo at catcher. Uribe can play short or third depending on who we bring in. My Priority list looks like this:

1 (tie). Quality Bullpen arm
1 (tie). Top-notch Starting pitcher
3. Valentin Replacement
4. 2nd Bullpen arm
5. Outfielder
Pedro is an injury waiting to happen. The Sox don't need a pitcher who can't pitch more then 100 pitches in a game and gets 6 days off b/w starts. At $10 mill. Pedro would be a huge mistake of epic porportions for this team.


Bob

samram
08-11-2004, 08:59 AM
We'll go after Beltran kind of like we went after A-Rod. I hate when the Sox do this.

I don't doubt they will call his agent, but Boras hates the Sox and to think he will sign here isn't realistic.

But everyone, feel free to make our your pretend lineups with Beltran in it.

Good to hear they have $20 mill more to spend for next year in addition to what's already signed. But I'm sure some fans are going to complain about not spending enough even though attendance is up.



Bob
Well, I'm certainly not penciling in Beltran for next year, but Boras is a good enough agent to not let his personal likes and dislikes get in the way of the best deal for his client. If JR makes the best offer (doubtful), they'll get him. I still think the Dodgers are the most likely destination, since they will lose Finley back to AZ, and they traded Dave Roberts.

wdelaney72
08-11-2004, 09:55 AM
Pedro is an injury waiting to happen. The Sox don't need a pitcher who can't pitch more then 100 pitches in a game and gets 6 days off b/w starts. At $10 mill. Pedro would be a huge mistake of epic porportions for this team.

Bob
Amen!

Tekijawa
08-11-2004, 09:55 AM
We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. .
I believe I've stated this since he first got traded to houston... I'm Pretty sure he'll be in a Sox uniform next year... last time I had this feeling was when Colon was being floated arround as either going to the yankees or the redsox.... Let's hope it works out a little better this time around. An OF of Lee RF Beltran CF And Rowand is good enough for me!

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 11:00 AM
We'll go after Beltran kind of like we went after A-Rod. I hate when the Sox do this.

I don't doubt they will call his agent, but Boras hates the Sox and to think he will sign here isn't realistic.

But everyone, feel free to make our your pretend lineups with Beltran in it.

Good to hear they have $20 mill more to spend for next year in addition to what's already signed. But I'm sure some fans are going to complain about not spending enough even though attendance is up.



Bob
Umm, if memory serves me correctly, we went after ARod with a $17mil/yr offer when the "market rate" was in the 18-19mil range. Not exactly trying to massively underbid. The Rangers came out with an offer hugely higher than anything else available, that doesn't mean the Sox were somehow trying to cheap out. It's very similar to the Colon deal, where he went to Anaheim because they gave him more money and more years than anyone else was even thinking of.

And yes, there were deferrals in the Sox offer- as there are in all big contracts and in fact as ARod has in his current one.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 11:04 AM
If JR won't give Maggs his $14 million a year, why would he pay out even more to Carlos Beltran? Beltran is going to want $90 million for 6 years. Granted I would love to have Beltran over Maggs -- he is an awesome glove in CF, he can steal bases, and he can hit homeruns. Beltran is worth every bit of the $15 million a year he will be asking for, while Maggs isn't worth the $14 million a year he wants But I don't see Jerry loosening the purse strings a great deal to obtain him. Although an outfield of Carlos Lee, Carlos Beltran, and Aaron Rowand would be pretty damn formidable. :o:
I've seen nothing that says that JR is limiting the offer to Maggs, it appears to be more a "value for money" thing where the Sox think Maggs is worth $13mil and he thinks he's worth more. It'a slo been reported that the major sticking point is deferrals (which by MLB rule couldn't be more than 2 years past the end of the deal), and/or some protection in the 5th year (which "wouldn't take away from the overall dollars"). Those 2 make it seem to me that Maggs isn't that interested in staying unless the Sox break the bank. He's not worth that.

I'm not sure if I'd prefer Beltran at $15mil or say a JD Drew at $8mil & a couple of pitchers, but a Lee-Beltran-Rowand OF looks VERY nice offensively and defensively, and if we can get some decent, cheap relief pitching, that would maek for a pretty good team. Even with Crede, Uribe, Willie in the lineup.

kittle42
08-11-2004, 11:25 AM
Damn dude, if they aren't "earth-shattering predictions" to you, why even bother posting in this thread? Do you think anyone here needs or even wants your input?
:?: I am confused....I thought this was a message board. I'll post wherever the hell I want. Do you think anyone here needs or wants anyone's input - except maybe Otis', as his is asked for at times.

Actually, wait, before the next time I post, let me make sure that I completely agree with the topic so that I can post in a way that will make everyone's life more meaningful and enjoyable.

cornball
08-11-2004, 11:38 AM
Well, I'm certainly not penciling in Beltran for next year, but Boras is a good enough agent to not let his personal likes and dislikes get in the way of the best deal for his client. If JR makes the best offer (doubtful), they'll get him. I still think the Dodgers are the most likely destination, since they will lose Finley back to AZ, and they traded Dave Roberts.
You can cross off the majority of teams going after Beltran because of Boras. The one thing for sure, Boras will create a bidding war wheather this is one or not for Beltrans services.

gosox41
08-11-2004, 11:40 AM
Amen!
Of course if the Sox do sign him, I have full right (more so then before) to bash the move as well as KW since I am telling everyone that Pedro at anywhere near $8-10 mill. per season in a long term contract is bad.


Bob

gosox41
08-11-2004, 11:43 AM
Umm, if memory serves me correctly, we went after ARod with a $17mil/yr offer when the "market rate" was in the 18-19mil range. Not exactly trying to massively underbid. The Rangers came out with an offer hugely higher than anything else available, that doesn't mean the Sox were somehow trying to cheap out. It's very similar to the Colon deal, where he went to Anaheim because they gave him more money and more years than anyone else was even thinking of.

And yes, there were deferrals in the Sox offer- as there are in all big contracts and in fact as ARod has in his current one.
I have no problem with deferred money. But if the Sox are going to go after a player, it's a joke to make an initial bid and then end it there. Why bother ? It's just driving the price up.

If the Sox do go after Beltran, my guess is they'll offer him Vlad money wiht maybe one less year. A bunch of teams will trump that deal and the Sox will never come back with a counteroffer, thus making the process a joke and waste of time.



Bob

JDP
08-11-2004, 11:43 AM
How about signing Benitez to be the closer, move Takatsu into middle relief and sign a solid SP (Pavano/Clement/Benson)?

Lip Man 1
08-11-2004, 11:43 AM
At first the issue with A-Rod wasn't the money...remember the reports in the newspaper, later conformed by A-Rod, that Uncle Jerry called him personally and said the Sox wanted to meet with him without his agent?

A-Rod immediately told Boras about it which is why when Williams showed up for his interview 'poof' A-Rod and Boras didn't.

Scratch another name off the list.

The Sox only had a longshot chance for A-Rod in the first place. The mets remember made a better offer right from the get - go, then the Rangers topped it.

Like Bob says, any offer to Beltran will be the same way, purely a token PR move...a la Ventura and A-Rod.

and Bob...if the Sox increase the payroll twenty million next season, let's see 65 million plus 20 million....

My God! That's a 'major market' payroll!!!!!!!!! With that type of money they may be able to survive two injuries next season!

Lip

voodoochile
08-11-2004, 11:44 AM
We'll go after Beltran kind of like we went after A-Rod. I hate when the Sox do this.

I don't doubt they will call his agent, but Boras hates the Sox and to think he will sign here isn't realistic.

But everyone, feel free to make our your pretend lineups with Beltran in it.

Good to hear they have $20 mill more to spend for next year in addition to what's already signed. But I'm sure some fans are going to complain about not spending enough even though attendance is up.



Bob
How big of an increase is it? Magglio frees up $14M of that money by himself.

samram
08-11-2004, 11:46 AM
You can cross off the majority of teams going after Beltran because of Boras. The one thing for sure, Boras will create a bidding war wheather this is one or not for Beltrans services.
That could be, but in the end Beltran makes the decision, and he will go to the team making the best offer. If Boras had shrunk the market because of prior antics, I wouldn't be very happy as a client, but Boras won't cross the Sox off because of JR, although JR may cross Beltran off because of Boras.

JDP
08-11-2004, 11:46 AM
How big of an increase is it? Magglio frees up $14M of that money by himself.
Not including "raises", including the addition of Contreras/subtraction of Loaiza and including the signing of Garcia, what exactly is freed up? $25.0M?

voodoochile
08-11-2004, 11:50 AM
Not including "raises", including the addition of Contreras/subtraction of Loaiza and including the signing of Garcia, what exactly is freed up? $25.0M?
Hope you are right. If JR actually does it, I will be ecstatic. Until it actually happens and the team payroll increases to something more fitting for a team from this market size, I will remain skeptical...

gosox41
08-11-2004, 11:51 AM
At first the issue with A-Rod wasn't the money...remember the reports in the newspaper, later conformed by A-Rod, that Uncle Jerry called him personally and said the Sox wanted to meet with him without his agent?

A-Rod immediately told Boras about it which is why when Williams showed up for his interview 'poof' A-Rod and Boras didn't.

Scratch another name off the list.

The Sox only had a longshot chance for A-Rod in the first place. The mets remember made a better offer right from the get - go, then the Rangers topped it.

Like Bob says, any offer to Beltran will be the same way, purely a token PR move...a la Ventura and A-Rod.

and Bob...if the Sox increase the payroll twenty million next season, let's see 65 million plus 20 million....

My God! That's a 'major market' payroll!!!!!!!!! With that type of money they may be able to survive two injuries next season!

Lip
That's not what was posted. What was posted was that the Sox have $20 mill free to spend for next season. THis inludes money coming off the books. So basically you have to look at whoever is signed with guaranteed contracts for next season and add $20 mill to determine what the payroll will be.

I don't know what the total comes to. Guys like Buerhle and Garcia are getting raises. ORdoenz is off the books. Thomas is at $8 mill. I don't know how Lee or PK's contract is structured, just what the average salay is for the life of their contract.


I read somewhere that the Sox have about $50-53 mill locked up in guaranteed contracts next season. So $20 mill would be around $70-73. And I'm sure that $50-53 mill doesn't include arbitrattion cases to Garland and Uribe to name a few.

Lip, I can see this scenario happening (the one in the paragraph above) but I have not heard anything about next year at all. If this isn't true don't blame me or let it take away from any credibility I may or may not have. I'm not the one who reported this. I can see it happening, and that's strictly my personal opinion in some level (maybe the Sox will 'only' add $18 mill). I don't know if it will or won't for fact.


Bob

gosox41
08-11-2004, 11:53 AM
How big of an increase is it? Magglio frees up $14M of that money by himself.
I think I read that the Sox have about $50 mill. or so locked up next year"

Frank-$8 mill
Garcia-$7-8 mill
Contreras-$6 mill (that's the Sox portion they have to pay)
Buerle-$6 mill.
PK-$8.5
Lee-around $7.5

That's off the top of my head. I don't know the contract status of Roberto Alomar or Everett and am to busy to research the rest.


Bob

nodiggity59
08-11-2004, 12:01 PM
Frankly, I think the bidding war will be limited. The Sox and the Dodgers are the only team who logically should go after Btran, IMO.

Here are the teams who could make a run at B-tran, and why they shouldn't/won't:

NL EAST: Mets- already saddled w/ Piazza's big contract, as well as Glavine's, plus they have Cameron in center for studly D. Unlikely but possible.

NL CENTRAL: Cubs- would have to waive bye bye to Ramirez or Nomar and Patterson to make it work, plus they already have Sosa's huge deal. Very unlikely.

NL EAST: Dodgers- Depodesta is a Moneyballer, which is the only reason this team wouldn't make a run at a high priced guy instead of having more financial balance. 50/50 maybe? Still, he fits there.

AL EAST: Yankees- Have Bernie and Lofton locked up, but still could want him. However, don't be surprised if they focus on STARTING PITCHING seeing as that is their main weakness. Also, they don't have any significant contracts coming off the books other than Contreras. Likely, but not as vital for this team's success b/c they only have Mussina and Vazquez under contract for next year.

Boston- They already have Manny's huge deal, plus Johnny Damon in center and hopefully a healthy Trot Nixon in right, in addition to 3!!! holes in the rotation due to free agency sooo...A chance, but a slim one.

AL CENTRAL: Sox- have just dismissed their former franchise player, have a solid starting 4, and are also getting out from some other contracts for older/useless (Valentin/Koch) players. As likely as anyone.

AL WEST: Angels- Moreno was in over his head with throwing around money this year, he probably won't continue to do so especially w/ Vlad and Colon's big deals. Unlikely.

Okay that was pretty long. If you disagree, feel free to tear me a new one.

soxtalker
08-11-2004, 12:04 PM
I have no problem with deferred money. But if the Sox are going to go after a player, it's a joke to make an initial bid and then end it there. Why bother ? It's just driving the price up.

If the Sox do go after Beltran, my guess is they'll offer him Vlad money wiht maybe one less year. A bunch of teams will trump that deal and the Sox will never come back with a counteroffer, thus making the process a joke and waste of time.

Bob
Seems to me that driving up the price can have both good and bad consequences. It probably drives up the pricing of all players to some extent, which I don't view as particularly good as a fan (who ends up paying for overall player salaries in some way). However, it also takes up more of the resources of whatever team does sign him. If that team is our competition at some point, I'd prefer to see them with less resources.

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2004, 12:12 PM
Mercy. How great would this be if it came to pass as WSox8404 relates?

I'm going to assume for the moment that what he says is true and payroll is upped to the $85M range. But if Konerko is dealt, does Frank play first? I know his numbers at first are much better than at DH, but since he will be recovering from a foot/ankle injury, will he want to play the field? Should he even consider playing the field? But let's assume that Konerko is dealt (perhaps to New York for Lofton, Tom Gordon and cash), Frank does play 1B and Everett, since he is under contract, moves to DH. They also likely still could sign Frank Catalanotto in free agency. A lineup of:

Lofton/Rowand (RF,), Catalanotto (2B), Frank (1B), Beltran (CF), Lee (LF), Everett (DH), Crede (3B), Uribe (SS), Davis/Burke (C)

would put the fear of God into opposing pitchers at an estimated cost of $46M. The starting staff of Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras and Garland would be about $25M and Gordon would be $3.5M for a total of $74.5M so far. If the payroll was capped at $85M, that leaves $10.5M for the bench, #5 starter and the rest of the bullpen.
:supernana:

Now, taking off the deeppink glasses, I just fear there is no deeppink deep enough to express this pipe dream.

samram
08-11-2004, 12:12 PM
NL WEST: Dodgers- Depodesta is a Moneyballer, which is the only reason this team wouldn't make a run at a high priced guy instead of having more financial balance. 50/50 maybe? Still, he fits there.

AL EAST: Yankees- Have Bernie and Lofton locked up, but still could want him. However, don't be surprised if they focus on STARTING PITCHING seeing as that is their main weakness. Also, they don't have any significant contracts coming off the books other than Contreras. Likely, but not as vital for this team's success b/c they only have Mussina and Vazquez under contract for next year.
DePodesta is a Moneyballer, but he's also in a big market, working with a big payroll- it's not like Oakland or Toronto. They will probably lose Beltre too because Boras rarely has clients resign with the same team, although the Dodgers will probably do anything they can to keep him.

Another team could be the Phillies, depending on whether they want to keep spending as they have the last two offseasons- they are sick of Marlon Byrd.

nodiggity59
08-11-2004, 12:23 PM
DePodesta is a Moneyballer, but he's also in a big market, working with a big payroll- it's not like Oakland or Toronto. They will probably lose Beltre too because Boras rarely has clients resign with the same team, although the Dodgers will probably do anything they can to keep him.

Another team could be the Phillies, depending on whether they want to keep spending as they have the last two offseasons- they are sick of Marlon Byrd.
Very true. I think one interesting thing about this whole situation is that the Sox, of all teams the Sox, are one of the best positioned to make a run b/c their starting pitching is SOLID. Whod'a thunk?

BTW I wouldn't ming seeing Beltre here lol.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 12:49 PM
Frankly, I think the bidding war will be limited. The Sox and the Dodgers are the only team who logically should go after Btran, IMO.

Here are the teams who could make a run at B-tran, and why they shouldn't/won't:

NL EAST: Mets- already saddled w/ Piazza's big contract, as well as Glavine's, plus they have Cameron in center for studly D. Unlikely but possible.

NL CENTRAL: Cubs- would have to waive bye bye to Ramirez or Nomar and Patterson to make it work, plus they already have Sosa's huge deal. Very unlikely.

NL EAST: Dodgers- Depodesta is a Moneyballer, which is the only reason this team wouldn't make a run at a high priced guy instead of having more financial balance. 50/50 maybe? Still, he fits there.

AL EAST: Yankees- Have Bernie and Lofton locked up, but still could want him. However, don't be surprised if they focus on STARTING PITCHING seeing as that is their main weakness. Also, they don't have any significant contracts coming off the books other than Contreras. Likely, but not as vital for this team's success b/c they only have Mussina and Vazquez under contract for next year.

Boston- They already have Manny's huge deal, plus Johnny Damon in center and hopefully a healthy Trot Nixon in right, in addition to 3!!! holes in the rotation due to free agency sooo...A chance, but a slim one.

AL CENTRAL: Sox- have just dismissed their former franchise player, have a solid starting 4, and are also getting out from some other contracts for older/useless (Valentin/Koch) players. As likely as anyone.

AL WEST: Angels- Moreno was in over his head with throwing around money this year, he probably won't continue to do so especially w/ Vlad and Colon's big deals. Unlikely.

Okay that was pretty long. If you disagree, feel free to tear me a new one.
Interesting analysis, and I'd agree with all of it and actually add something: If the Mets are really that hard up for Maggs, they're certainyl not going to be getting him AND Beltran. So if the Sox ARE willing to pony up for Beltran and they get outbid, I'd think it'd be more likely that after the fact Maggs would end up coming back unless there are 2 teams out there that are willing to offer ridiculous salaries, which based on your analysis isn't that likely. Really, the teams that could offer contracts to them are few: Yanks, Mets, BoSox, Dodgers, Cubs. As you say - Yanks & BoSox are going to be looking for pitching (or at least they should be if they have any sense!), Cubs & Dodgers will look to sign Nomar as priority #1. So for Beltran & Maggs the likely competition will be one f the Cubs/Dodgers (whoever doesn't get Nomar), leaving the other player for us!

longshot7
08-11-2004, 12:53 PM
Beltran is not coming here. See Boras comments above.

as for any of WSox's comments.... with the getting rid of all the run producers (Lee, Konerko, Ordonez).... I'll believe it when I see it.

kittle42
08-11-2004, 12:54 PM
Beltran is not coming here. See Boras comments above.

as for any of WSox's comments.... with the getting rid of all the run producers (Lee, Konerko, Ordonez).... I'll believe it when I see it.
Yup. Will not happen.

samram
08-11-2004, 12:57 PM
Interesting analysis, and I'd agree with all of it and actually add something: If the Mets are really that hard up for Maggs, they're certainyl not going to be getting him AND Beltran. So if the Sox ARE willing to pony up for Beltran and they get outbid, I'd think it'd be more likely that after the fact Maggs would end up coming back unless there are 2 teams out there that are willing to offer ridiculous salaries, which based on your analysis isn't that likely. Really, the teams that could offer contracts to them are few: Yanks, Mets, BoSox, Dodgers, Cubs. As you say - Yanks & BoSox are going to be looking for pitching (or at least they should be if they have any sense!), Cubs & Dodgers will look to sign Nomar as priority #1. So for Beltran & Maggs the likely competition will be one f the Cubs/Dodgers (whoever doesn't get Nomar), leaving the other player for us!
Do you still think the Dodgers will be after Nomar now that Izturis has become a pretty good player, when they could use that money to just go after Beltran, who seems to be a perfect fit there, with Finley leaving and Roberts traded? Nomar seems more likely to end up in Anaheim (if they don't keep Glaus and free up more space), or maybe San Fran, if he and Mia don't mind being a few hours from home.

Iguana775
08-11-2004, 12:58 PM
Carlos Beltran is not worth 18 mil/yr , we would be much wiser to invest in Odalis Perez or Pavano, and some top of the order good obp guys like Catallanato and for god sakes shore up the horrific bullpen. No use in putting your eggs all in one basket with Beltran.
When you get up to that type of money, what's another million or 2. kind of like comparing $10 and $15 to an average person.

Brian26
08-11-2004, 01:03 PM
I can't believe this thread is already 5 pages long when it's so obvious that the guy who started it is talking out of his behind. C'mon guys.

calderon
08-11-2004, 01:04 PM
I read in this weeks sporting news that the angels may make a run at beltran, move G. Anderson back to left, and trade Guillen for some pitching... I would like the Sox to spend some of that money and get another pitcher, (O. Perez,Lowe) which would drop garland to number 5 in the rotation.

Jerko
08-11-2004, 01:14 PM
I can't believe this thread is already 5 pages long when it's so obvious that the guy who started it is talking out of his behind. C'mon guys.
Maybe everyone thinks that is was Otis in disguise.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 01:16 PM
But let's assume that Konerko is dealt (perhaps to New York for Lofton, Tom Gordon and cash), Frank does play 1B and Everett, since he is under contract, moves to DH. They also likely still could sign Frank Catalanotto in free agency. A lineup of:


Man - I'd hope we could do a lot better than Kenny Lofton, Tom Gordon, & cash for Paul Konerko. The guy's got a 900+OPS and is tied for the league lead in HR. Plus he's a free agent after the year (so has the value of not coming with a long-term financial commitment). Not to mention that Rowand is showing some very nice ability v. righties, so I'm not sure why you'd platoon him. IMO, if you are going to make a serious run at Beltran, you trade either Konerko or Lee for pitching.

And FWIW - I think asking a 280+lb guy with stress fractures in his feet to play 1B, a position he hasn't played regularly in years is begging to lose one of the most potent offensive forces in baseball.

We'll see, but if Willie can use last night as a springboard, I think a lineup of Harris-Rowand-Beltran-Frank-Lee/Konerko-Everett-Valentin/Uribe-Crede-Davis/Burke, a rotation of Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland-??? with a bullpen of Cotts-Adkins-????-Marte-Shingo is a WS contender.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 01:18 PM
Do you still think the Dodgers will be after Nomar now that Izturis has become a pretty good player, when they could use that money to just go after Beltran, who seems to be a perfect fit there, with Finley leaving and Roberts traded? Nomar seems more likely to end up in Anaheim (if they don't keep Glaus and free up more space), or maybe San Fran, if he and Mia don't mind being a few hours from home.
Depends on how badly he'd like to play near home, how much $$$ he'd have to sacrifice, and how much the Dodgers want to add a big name to boost the franchise. While Beltran's a better player IMO, Nomar is by far a bigger "name".

owensmouth
08-11-2004, 01:21 PM
What makes anybody think that Frank is going to be available next year? According to the report that I read, there was no healing whatsoever of his stress fracture(s). He may be done, even without surgery.

habibharu
08-11-2004, 01:33 PM
i see nomar going to the angels. they are always willing to spend money and eckstein really isnt doing the job at SS

Mohoney
08-11-2004, 01:35 PM
I'm not so high on Clement as some of you guys. If you look at his career numbers, this is really his first good year. Granted, he has gotten no run support this year so his record sucks but look at his previous seasons. He is 68 - 73 with a 4.30 ERA on his career. A career 4.30 ERA is not that great, especially when he has been in the N.L. for his entire career. He has been "wildly" inconsistent, no pun intended. He seems to throw wild pitches in the worst situations (i.e. runner at 3rd base). I would pass on Clement and his Amish beard.

I would pass on Clement, too. He looks like an elbow injury waiting to happen with the way he snaps off his slider.

habibharu
08-11-2004, 01:38 PM
I would pass on Clement, too. He looks like an elbow injury waiting to happen with the way he snaps off his slider. clement is almost as much of a fluke this year as ELO was last yr. we are better off going after a pavano or perez. or better yet, trading paulie for a stud SP

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 01:40 PM
Mercy. How great would this be if it came to pass as WSox8404 relates?

I'm going to assume for the moment that what he says is true and payroll is upped to the $85M range. But if Konerko is dealt, does Frank play first? I know his numbers at first are much better than at DH, but since he will be recovering from a foot/ankle injury, will he want to play the field? Should he even consider playing the field? But let's assume that Konerko is dealt (perhaps to New York for Lofton, Tom Gordon and cash), Frank does play 1B and Everett, since he is under contract, moves to DH. They also likely still could sign Frank Catalanotto in free agency. A lineup of:

Lofton/Rowand (RF,), Catalanotto (2B), Frank (1B), Beltran (CF), Lee (LF), Everett (DH), Crede (3B), Uribe (SS), Davis/Burke (C)

would put the fear of God into opposing pitchers at an estimated cost of $46M. The starting staff of Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras and Garland would be about $25M and Gordon would be $3.5M for a total of $74.5M so far. If the payroll was capped at $85M, that leaves $10.5M for the bench, #5 starter and the rest of the bullpen.
:supernana:

Now, taking off the deeppink glasses, I just fear there is no deeppink deep enough to express this pipe dream.
The next time I see my source, I am going to ask him what he thinks the total payroll next year will amount to. I am hoping just like everyone else that it is in fact going to be close to the 80 to 85 million range. With the pieces we have now, adding another 20 million in other pieces would put us close to favorites in the AL. I will most likely see my source on Monday, possibly on Sunday. I will continue to grill him about various topics until all topics are exhausted.

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 01:43 PM
Beltran is not coming here. See Boras comments above.

as for any of WSox's comments.... with the getting rid of all the run producers (Lee, Konerko, Ordonez).... I'll believe it when I see it.
When did I say Lee was leaving??? Read my posts correctly before you question me.

habibharu
08-11-2004, 01:43 PM
The next time I see my source, I am going to ask him what he thinks the total payroll next year will amount to. I am hoping just like everyone else that it is in fact going to be close to the 80 to 85 million range. With the pieces we have now, adding another 20 million in other pieces would put us close to favorites in the AL. I will most likely see my source on Monday, possibly on Sunday. I will continue to grill him about various topics until all topics are exhausted. BTW, how exactly do you know this guy?

Hangar18
08-11-2004, 01:49 PM
Well, another good pitcher will cost us $9 million a year. Beltran at $15 million a year can be just as much of a difference maker in a lineup as a starting pitcher would be. I somewhat agree with you though. I wouldn't mind seeing a solid rotation of Garcia, Buehrle, Pavano, Contreras, and Garland and go more towards the small-ball route.
WOWOOOOOOOOO. Having these guys in our lineup, makes us Faster,
just as Powerful, and Better Defensively. Magglio should NEVER leave this team, and its RARE you can upgrade by letting him go, but BELTRAN is the EXCEPTION. I will get over it, if Maggs is let go in favor of Beltran.
Im getting goosebumps thinking of Pavano ...... and Beltran in this lineup.

But who am I kidding. This team has NEVER DONE THE RIGHT THING,
whether it comes to Spending a little extra on the RIght Players, SPending
money at all to keep players, building stadiums, keeping hall-of-fame bound
players in the organization, this team is clueless. Im excited....but
not really.

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 01:49 PM
I can't believe this thread is already 5 pages long when it's so obvious that the guy who started it is talking out of his behind. C'mon guys.
What makes you think I am talking out of my behind? I do not need to argue with people such as you. What makes you think I do not have a source? I have already stated that my source is one of the owners. Now do you want to know how I know him? I will tell you. I am a security guard that works his condominium builiding. I work there on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday of every week. That is why I only get info from him on these days. I will never give out his name, so this is all you need to know. Oh and by the way, Harold Baines is moving into the condominium next door in about six months.

habibharu
08-11-2004, 01:53 PM
WOWOOOOOOOOO. Having these guys in our lineup, makes us Faster,
just as Powerful, and Better Defensively. Magglio should NEVER leave this team, and its RARE you can upgrade by letting him go, but BELTRAN is the EXCEPTION. I will get over it, if Maggs is let go in favor of Beltran.
Im getting goosebumps thinking of Pavano ...... and Beltran in this lineup.

But who am I kidding. This team has NEVER DONE THE RIGHT THING,
whether it comes to Spending a little extra on the RIght Players, SPending
money at all to keep players, building stadiums, keeping hall-of-fame bound
players in the organization, this team is clueless. Im excited....but
not really. agree with everything you said

ndgt10
08-11-2004, 01:56 PM
clement is almost as much of a fluke this year as ELO was last yr. we are better off going after a pavano or perez. or better yet, trading paulie for a stud SP
I don't understand the assumption that Clement is having a fluke year, but Pavano is not. Lets look at their ERA's per year for their career:

'98 4.21 4.61
'99 5.63 4.48
'00 3.06 5.14
'01 6.33 5.05
'02 5.16 3.60
'03 4.30 4.11
'04 3.21 3.29

Looking at the two columns, both these pitchers look like they are having career years. Without knowing which pitchers belong to each column, it pretty much is a toss up. By the way, the left column is Pavano and the right column is Clement.

ndgt10
08-11-2004, 01:58 PM
What makes you think I am talking out of my behind? I do not need to argue with people such as you. What makes you think I do not have a source? I have already stated that my source is one of the owners. Now do you want to know how I know him? I will tell you. I am a security guard that works his condominium builiding. I work there on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday of every week. That is why I only get info from him on these days. I will never give out his name, so this is all you need to know. Oh and by the way, Harold Baines is moving into the condominium next door in about six months.
Don't listen to the select few individuals on this board who claim that you're "talking out of your behind." I appreciate all the info you give us, and I'm sure most other people do to. Keep up the good work man!

gosox41
08-11-2004, 01:59 PM
What makes you think I am talking out of my behind? I do not need to argue with people such as you. What makes you think I do not have a source? I have already stated that my source is one of the owners. Now do you want to know how I know him? I will tell you. I am a security guard that works his condominium builiding. I work there on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday of every week. That is why I only get info from him on these days. I will never give out his name, so this is all you need to know. Oh and by the way, Harold Baines is moving into the condominium next door in about six months.
I took yourt first message to mean that the Sox payroll was going to be $20 mill higher then what was already committed to next years players, not just adding $20 mill to this years payroll.

I hope people distinguish between the two, but it doesn't look like they're getting it.


Bob

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 02:02 PM
I took yourt first message to mean that the Sox payroll was going to be $20 mill higher then what was already committed to next years players, not just adding $20 mill to this years payroll.

I hope people distinguish between the two, but it doesn't look like they're getting it.


Bob
At least you got it right.

ndgt10
08-11-2004, 02:03 PM
i see nomar going to the angels. they are always willing to spend money and eckstein really isnt doing the job at SS
If that is the case, I would love for us to go after Eckstein. I think he would be a realistic, cheap option at shortstop. Sure he isn't the best guy defensively or offensively, but he gets the job done. He would be a good leadoff or #2 hitter, one who can get on base, but more importantly, not strikeout very often.

.298 BA, .354 OBP, 33 K's in 383 AB's.

Even more importantly, he is a contact hitter who doesn't go for the homerun like the majority of our lineup.

gosox41
08-11-2004, 02:06 PM
At least you got it right.
I occasionally here things from somone I know who is close with the team. And if you're not accurate here you get lambasted so don't take it pesonally.

You'll also find that people haven't mastered the skill of reading comprehension. They skim through many posts a day and see words like: 2004, 2005, $20 mill, payroll and just jump the gun.

Don't take anything pesonally or let it discourage you from posting other things you hear. If not feel free to private message me. I'm not going to immediately jump the gun on a scenario that could be valid.


Bob

I

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 02:09 PM
At least you got it right.
IIRC, that would give us a 73mil payroll, or 10mil over this year. Since we're basically net between financial additions & losses (assuming Jose, Koch, ELo, Maggs $$s are gone and we replace them with Garcia, Contreras, Everett, & assorted raises to the rest), that leaves $10mil for additions. That ain't getting Carlos Beltran. It might get Maggs if he wants a 1-yr deal to prove himself before hitting the market again in '05. Or it will certainly get you a couple of relievers, a middle IF, and a veteran catcher.

Or it could possibly get you Kendall (trade Davis+low prospect for Kendall+cash to make him $6mil/yr), and 2 middle relievers ($2mil each).

Me likey lineup of Kendall-Rowand-Thomas-Lee-Konerko-Everett-Crede-Harris-Uribe. IMO we can live with Diaz/Cotts as the 5th starter (I think Diaz will be better once he's settled into the bigs a bit). Especially if we have a lockdown pen centered on vet-vet-Marte-Shingo.

Win1ForMe
08-11-2004, 02:10 PM
I took yourt first message to mean that the Sox payroll was going to be $20 mill higher then what was already committed to next years players, not just adding $20 mill to this years payroll.

I hope people distinguish between the two, but it doesn't look like they're getting it.So I guess my question would be whether or not arbitration is already added to those totals? If you figure arbitration to players like Garland, Uribe, Rowand, and Timo Perez, the payroll should be somewhere around $62 M already. I believe the four will cost $6-8M total in arbitration, so that's a big chunk out of that previously mentioned $20M.

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 02:21 PM
Depends on how badly he'd like to play near home, how much $$$ he'd have to sacrifice, and how much the Dodgers want to add a big name to boost the franchise. While Beltran's a better player IMO, Nomar is by far a bigger "name".
Sorry not to pick on just you here, But Beltran in no way is better than Nomar. He does not hit as well for power, Average, Drive in as many runs, and Defensivley they are both above average, but nothing special.

We need to spend money on Beltran like we need a 2nd hole in the dick.
Beltran is a career .284 hitter which is good not great, He has never hit 30 hrs. (looks like he will this year but he is hittin .260 and .235 since joining Houston.) He seems to have Sox syndrome and is just swinging for the fences now. He has never driven in more than 108 runs. he has hit over .300 twice but never over .308. He is a solid player but he is not worth Big Player money he is asking for. Yeah, the Nomar deal would have been better than picking up Beltran in the off season.(as a replacement for Maggs)

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 02:21 PM
So I guess my question would be whether or not arbitration is already added to those totals? If you figure arbitration to players like Garland, Uribe, Rowand, and Timo Perez, the payroll should be somewhere around $62 M already. I believe the four will cost $6-8M total in arbitration, so that's a big chunk out of that previously mentioned $20M.
IIRC, someone posted an analysis a while back that had the players who started 2003 that were under contract for 2004 adding about 10mil in raises & arb awards. Then you factor in net losses (Koch-6, Valentin-5, ELo-4, Maggs-14), and adds (Garcia-9, Everett-4.5, Contreras-6), and you're at a net wash with the starting payroll of 63mil. So even on the low end, if the 2004 payroll is 73mil, you have about 10mil to "play with".

jeremyb1
08-11-2004, 02:26 PM
IIRC, someone posted an analysis a while back that had the players who started 2003 that were under contract for 2004 adding about 10mil in raises & arb awards. Then you factor in net losses (Koch-6, Valentin-5, ELo-4, Maggs-14), and adds (Garcia-9, Everett-4.5, Contreras-6), and you're at a net wash with the starting payroll of 63mil. So even on the low end, if the 2004 payroll is 73mil, you have about 10mil to "play with".

Yeah. Well it's clear to me that we don't have 20 million sitting around. If payroll is going to be increased 20 million that's a different story but that didn't sound as though that's what the source said so I'm really puzzled.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 02:26 PM
Sorry not to pick on just you here, But Beltran in no way is better than Nomar. He does not hit as well for power, Average, Drive in as many runs, and Defensivley they are both above average, but nothing special.

We need to spend money on Beltran like we need a 2nd hole in the dick.
Beltran is a career .284 hitter which is good not great, He has never hit 30 hrs. (looks like he will this year but he is hittin .260 and .235 since joining Houston.) He seems to have Sox syndrome and is just swinging for the fences now. He has never driven in more than 108 runs. he has hit over .300 twice but never over .308. He is a solid player but he is not worth Big Player money he is asking for. Yeah, the Nomar deal would have been better than picking up Beltran in the off season.(as a replacement for Maggs)
Factoring in age & availability (injury potential), along with speed & D (2 areas where Nomar has significantly declined), and I'd disagree with you. I do think that Nomar is a better hitter for average, but the run/rbi argument falls out because Nomar's traditionally been on a much higher scoring team than Beltran. They have similar OPS over the past 4 years, and Carlos is 4 years younger.

just my opinion, but financials aside, I'd rather have Beltran.

kittle42
08-11-2004, 02:30 PM
I can't believe this thread is already 5 pages long when it's so obvious that the guy who started it is talking out of his behind. C'mon guys.
I got bashed by alluding to this exact thing earlier in this thread.

jabrch
08-11-2004, 02:36 PM
We need to spend money on Beltran like we need a 2nd hole in the dick.
Um - I don't know how to exactly take that. I don't know what the advantages or disadvantages would be to a second dickhole. Is there any function to it? Cuz if not - then that makes sense. But can you crap through it? If so, that would be cool - to crap standing up...and likely not needing to wipe either! If that's the advantage, I'll take the 2nd dickhole option...

ya see? baseball, like second dickholes, are very subjective issues.

longshot7
08-11-2004, 02:44 PM
When did I say Lee was leaving??? Read my posts correctly before you question me.

My bad - I meant Valentin. Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 02:44 PM
Factoring in age & availability (injury potential), along with speed & D (2 areas where Nomar has significantly declined), and I'd disagree with you. I do think that Nomar is a better hitter for average, but the run/rbi argument falls out because Nomar's traditionally been on a much higher scoring team than Beltran. They have similar OPS over the past 4 years, and Carlos is 4 years younger.

just my opinion, but financials aside, I'd rather have Beltran.
So you would rather have a guy who hits .284 with 25 bombs over a guy Who hits .323 With 30 Bombs a year (based on 162 game averages) . A guy hitting .235 on his new team over a guy who is hitting .357 with his new team. C'mon

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 02:46 PM
Um - I don't know how to exactly take that. I don't know what the advantages or disadvantages would be to a second dickhole. Is there any function to it? Cuz if not - then that makes sense. But can you crap through it? If so, that would be cool - to crap standing up...and likely not needing to wipe either! If that's the advantage, I'll take the 2nd dickhole option...

ya see? baseball, like second dickholes, are very subjective issues.
There would be no addition functionabilty to the second hole.

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 02:48 PM
So you would rather have a guy who hits .284 with 25 bombs over a guy Who hits .323 With 30 Bombs a year (based on 162 game averages) . A guy hitting .235 on his new team over a guy who is hitting .357 with his new team. C'mon
Given that Nomar hasn't approached those averages the past couple of years, that Beltran, being younger is still improving whereas it appears Nomar's declining, and the fact that neither has enough ABs with their new team to say anything about their averages.....I'd say yes.

longshot7
08-11-2004, 02:49 PM
Um - I don't know how to exactly take that. I don't know what the advantages or disadvantages would be to a second dickhole. Is there any function to it? Cuz if not - then that makes sense. But can you crap through it? If so, that would be cool - to crap standing up...and likely not needing to wipe either! If that's the advantage, I'll take the 2nd dickhole option...

ya see? baseball, like second dickholes, are very subjective issues.


nice. very family-friendly.

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 02:55 PM
nice. very family-friendly.
C'mon your from califronia you have heard crazier stuff than this... Ever Listen to Tom Leykis?

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 02:59 PM
Given that Nomar hasn't approached those averages the past couple of years, that Beltran, being younger is still improving whereas it appears Nomar's declining, and the fact that neither has enough ABs with their new team to say anything about their averages.....I'd say yes.
2002-2003 were not that long ago. He is only 31 not 35

Flight #24
08-11-2004, 03:07 PM
2002-2003 were not that long ago. He is only 31 not 35
Last time he hit over 30HR - 1998. Last time he hit over .310 - 2000. Until this year (and it's small AB sample), his #s away from Fenway were good, but nowhere near start level.

Beltran's still improving and his best days are ahead of him. Nomar's not old, but he does seem to be breaking down somewhat and that's impacting his performance.

Joosh
08-11-2004, 03:33 PM
I just had a crazy idea! Lets Package Garland and Shoeny (maybe with a minor leaguer) and trade for some good, solid starting pitching. Could this be done, and if so, who would we trade for?

Then you just sign a mediocre talent pitcher (like garland) off of FA and you solve the Garland/Shoeny problems, while gaining good SP.

alohafri
08-11-2004, 04:02 PM
Just wondering--can anyone name a White Sox player, current or last several years, who has Boras as his agent?

--Mrs. Aloha

ndgt10
08-11-2004, 04:06 PM
:tomatoaward

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 04:11 PM
Last time he hit over 30HR - 1998. Last time he hit over .310 - 2000. Until this year (and it's small AB sample), his #s away from Fenway were good, but nowhere near start level.

Beltran's still improving and his best days are ahead of him. Nomar's not old, but he does seem to be breaking down somewhat and that's impacting his performance.
Beltran is improving to a .259 ba. I'll pass

eshunn2001
08-11-2004, 04:12 PM
Last time he hit over 30HR - 1998. Last time he hit over .310 - 2000. Until this year (and it's small AB sample), his #s away from Fenway were good, but nowhere near start level.

Beltran's still improving and his best days are ahead of him. Nomar's not old, but he does seem to be breaking down somewhat and that's impacting his performance.
He has 200 ab's that is a pretty good sample.

Wealz
08-11-2004, 04:21 PM
For fun say the information in this thread is correct and next year's payroll is $75M. Right now it sits at about $52M without Garland and Uribe's arbitration cases.

I would like to see them go after either Glaus or Beltre, probably Glaus because he'll come cheaper. I still want both Konerko and Lee gone and if they signed one of those third baseman they could use Crede as an incentive to take either Lee or Konerko's full salary and perhaps get something decent in return. (Yep, I know they are in the final year of their deals, but I don't think another team would take their salary.) Getting rid of Konerko and Lee's salaries pays for the upgrade at third so they'd still have $20M to spend.

With that $20M, I'd go after J.D. Drew, Scott Williamson, and hopefully have enough left over for a Todd Walker.

Granted there's a hole at first, but this 8-man lineup is pretty nice:

Rowand CF
Walker 2B
Thomas DH
Drew RF
Glaus/Beltre 3B
Everrett LF
Uribe SS
Davis/Burke C

steff
08-11-2004, 05:33 PM
You know, these aren't exactly earth-shattering predictions.
Especially considering someone around here said Maggs was not coming back months ago... :rolleyes:


And, we are not going after Beltran. And I'll bet the Vette on it.

steff
08-11-2004, 05:38 PM
Just wondering--can anyone name a White Sox player, current or last several years, who has Boras as his agent?

--Mrs. Aloha


No one. And there won't be one next year either.

santo=dorf
08-11-2004, 05:41 PM
No one. And there won't be one next year either.

What about Crede and Shingo? :?:

kittle42
08-11-2004, 05:41 PM
No one. And there won't be one next year either.
And yet another reason why JR must find something else to do with his life.

kittle42
08-11-2004, 05:41 PM
And, we are not going after Beltran. And I'll bet the Vette on it.
Watch out! Aidan might tell you that we don't need your opinions.

steff
08-11-2004, 05:43 PM
What about Crede and Shingo? :?:

What about them..? They are represented by the same firm, not by Boris personally.

steff
08-11-2004, 05:44 PM
Watch out! Aidan might tell you that we don't need your opinions.

And if Aidan doesn't like my opinions he should practice what he preeches.

santo=dorf
08-11-2004, 05:48 PM
What about them..? They are represented by the same firm, not by Boris personally.

Which firm? I thought they were the only ones on the Sox represented by Bora$$.

Does anyone have a site that lits which players are represented by each agent? I would like to see who will never play with the White Sox under the Reinsdorf regime.

steff
08-11-2004, 05:50 PM
Which firm? I thought they were the only ones on the Sox represented by Bora$$.

Does anyone have a site that lits which players are represented by each agent? I would like to see who will never play with the White Sox under the Reinsdorf regime.

They are not directly represented by him. I have the site bookmarked at home, and I'll be leaving for the game in a few so I'll post it tomorrow if it's not already here.

Brian26
08-11-2004, 05:50 PM
Especially considering someone around here said Maggs was not coming back months ago... :rolleyes:


And, we are not going after Beltran. And I'll bet the Vette on it.

Of course we're not going after Beltran. I can't believe this guy has so many people believing his stuff.

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 06:05 PM
Of course we're not going after Beltran. I can't believe this guy has so many people believing his stuff.
Hey Brian, kiss my ass, okay buddy? I don't need your crap. What makes you think I have no life and the only way I get my craps and giggles would be to sit here and make up stuff? I have a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. Is it my fault I know one of the owners? No, its not, so kiss it. I already explained how I know the guy and its not like I said he is my dad or anything like that. For Gods sake give it a rest. I even met Bill Melton through my source. He came over to the condo one day in his blue Dodge Durango and waved to me through the window when I was on duty. The owner told him to when he went outside and hopped into the SUV. They went out for dinner that day. For Christ's sake why can't anyone know anybody? Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone? Wait moron. Next time Melton comes around I am gonna take a picture with him when I have my security uniform on and then download it onto the computer. Then, when you see the picture I wanna hear what you have to say.

steff
08-11-2004, 06:11 PM
Hey Brian, kiss my ass, okay buddy? I don't need your crap. What makes you think I have no life and the only way I get my craps and giggles would be to sit here and make up stuff? I have a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. Is it my fault I know one of the owners? No, its not, so kiss it. I already explained how I know the guy and its not like I said he is my dad or anything like that. For Gods sake give it a rest. I even met Bill Melton through my source. He came over to the condo one day in his blue Dodge Durango and waved to me through the window when I was on duty. The owner told him to when he went outside and hopped into the SUV. They went out for dinner that day. For Christ's sake why can't anyone know anybody? Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone? Wait moron. Next time Melton comes around I am gonna take a picture with him when I have my security uniform on and then download it onto the computer. Then, when you see the picture I wanna hear what you have to say.You don't have a picture wth Bill Melton...??? :(:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2033&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2033) :bandance:

jordan23ventura
08-11-2004, 06:14 PM
We'll go after Beltran kind of like we went after A-Rod. I hate when the Sox do this.
Everybody always says we'll never get a Boras client because he hates the Sox. Doesn't the player have any say in this? Also, doesn't anybody find it odd that Boras clients usually demand heavy contracts which this team hasn't been willing to cover? Money talks and Boras is a leech. I'm sure he would have no problem sending anyone here under the right conditions. Whether JR agrees to those or not is another matter.

OEO Magglio
08-11-2004, 06:15 PM
Hey Brian, kiss my ass, okay buddy? I don't need your crap. What makes you think I have no life and the only way I get my craps and giggles would be to sit here and make up stuff? I have a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. Is it my fault I know one of the owners? No, its not, so kiss it. I already explained how I know the guy and its not like I said he is my dad or anything like that. For Gods sake give it a rest. I even met Bill Melton through my source. He came over to the condo one day in his blue Dodge Durango and waved to me through the window when I was on duty. The owner told him to when he went outside and hopped into the SUV. They went out for dinner that day. For Christ's sake why can't anyone know anybody? Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone? Wait moron. Next time Melton comes around I am gonna take a picture with him when I have my security uniform on and then download it onto the computer. Then, when you see the picture I wanna hear what you have to say.:o: Take a couple deep breaths, everything is going to be ok.

steff
08-11-2004, 06:16 PM
This one is my favorite though....

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1631&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1631)

jordan23ventura
08-11-2004, 06:16 PM
Hey Brian, kiss my ass, okay buddy? I don't need your crap. What makes you think I have no life and the only way I get my craps and giggles would be to sit here and make up stuff? I have a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. Is it my fault I know one of the owners? No, its not, so kiss it. I already explained how I know the guy and its not like I said he is my dad or anything like that. For Gods sake give it a rest. I even met Bill Melton through my source. He came over to the condo one day in his blue Dodge Durango and waved to me through the window when I was on duty. The owner told him to when he went outside and hopped into the SUV. They went out for dinner that day. For Christ's sake why can't anyone know anybody? Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone? Wait moron. Next time Melton comes around I am gonna take a picture with him when I have my security uniform on and then download it onto the computer. Then, when you see the picture I wanna hear what you have to say.
Wouldn't you pretty much be revealing your source then?

steff
08-11-2004, 06:21 PM
Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone?

Dayyyymmm... this is like total deja vu from 6 or so years ago.. :o:

Were you guys this mean to me back then.... :D:

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 06:22 PM
Wouldn't you pretty much be revealing your source then?He won't be in the picture. Melton will. Why would I want a picture with the owner? HaHa. The point the picture would make is that I am a security guard who took a picture with Bill Melton at my work. So who would Melton be visiting there? A friend, most likely someone in the Sox organization, right? But what if Bill lives there? Then he would have been my source and I would have said it. Honestly, I am not making anything up. Why would I? I am just as big a fan as any of you, and I am just relaying stuff I get from my source. Its not like the stuff the owner says is going to come true anyway. Its just that he is close to the action. I could talk to KW everyday and tell you guys stuff, but would all of that come true just because it came out of KW's mouth? No. Stuff happens. I had a hard time believing that we would take a run at Beltran myself. I still doubt it. But I have to go with what the owner says. He is a little close to everything than me. I take it for what it is worth. Was Otis always right? Did we get Frank C. or Jerry Harriston? No. But he said the deal was close!!!!! Get over it people. For all I know PK and Jose and Maggs will all be back next year. I am just telling you what I hear. Take it for what it is worth and run with it.

Iguana775
08-11-2004, 06:25 PM
Dayyyymmm... this is like total deja vu from 6 or so years ago.. :o:

Were you guys this mean to me back then.... :D:
Yes, steff....they were.

Iguana775
08-11-2004, 06:26 PM
He won't be in the picture. Melton will. Why would I want a picture with the owner? HaHa. The point the picture would make is that I am a security guard who took a picture with Bill Melton at my work. So who would Melton be visiting there? A friend, most likely someone in the Sox organization, right? But what if Bill lives there? Then he would have been my source and I would have said it. Honestly, I am not making anything up. Why would I? I am just as big a fan as any of you, and I am just relaying stuff I get from my source. Its not like the stuff the owner says is going to come true anyway. Its just that he is close to the action. I could talk to KW everyday and tell you guys stuff, but would all of that come true just because it came out of KW's mouth? No. Stuff happens. I had a hard time believing that we would take a run at Beltran myself. I still doubt it. But I have to go with what the owner says. He is a little close to everything than me. I take it for what it is worth. Was Otis always right? Did we get Frank C. or Jerry Harriston? No. But he said the deal was close!!!!! Get over it people. For all I know PK and Jose and Maggs will all be back next year. I am just telling you what I hear. Take it for what it is worth and run with it.
No worries from me. I dont know why people get so anal. i think it is fun to discuss the possibilities....even if they dont come true.

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 06:26 PM
Dayyyymmm... this is like total deja vu from 6 or so years ago.. :o:

Were you guys this mean to me back then.... :D:
Seriously Steff.....is it so hard to believe that I know someone? Jesus, its not like I said this guy was my dad or uncle. I work in his building. It was just a chance occurance this happened. The maintanance guy told me about the owner and I didn't believe him. But then I talked with the guy the maintanance guy was talking about. And sure enough he said he was an owner! Oh man, but that can't happen!!! I was still a little skeptical until I saw his briefcase with the White Sox ID card hanging off it and when I got first row seats right behind the Sox dugout for the second home game of the year (the game in which Maggs hit the game winner in the 9th or 10th). Then I knew he was for real.

steff
08-11-2004, 06:26 PM
He won't take the picture. Melton will. Why would I want a picture with the owner? HaHa. The point the picture would make is that I am a security guard who took a picture with Bill Melton at my work. So who would Melton be visiting there? A friend, most likely someone in the Sox organization, right? But what if Bill lives there? Then he would have been my source and I would have said it. Honestly, I am not making anything up. Why would I? I am just as big a fan as any of you, and I am just relaying stuff I get from my source. Its not like the stuff the owner says is going to come true anyway. Its just that he is close to the action. I could talk to KW everyday and tell you guys stuff, but would all of that come true just because it came out of KW's mouth? No. Stuff happens. I had a hard time believing that we would take a run at Beltran myself. I still doubt it. But I have to go with what the owner says. He is a little close to everything than me. I take it for what it is worth. Was Otis always right? Did we get Frank C. or Jerry Harriston? No. But he said the deal was close!!!!! Get over it people. For all I know PK and Jose and Maggs will all be back next year. I am just telling you what I hear. Take it for what it is worth and run with it.

Just a tad bit of advice.. if you're for real... it's not nice to repeat things people tell you in confidence. Next time you talk to your "owner" buddy.. let him know you're going to be posting his comments on an internet message board. With what you've posted here I can find out easily if you're lying. And if I can.. so can others. Many people here know investors (that's what they are called.. not owners), many people know Bill Melton, and many people even know players :o: .

Just some advice..

steff
08-11-2004, 06:27 PM
Yes, steff....they were.

Lord.. I'm glad I don't remember it.

OEO Magglio
08-11-2004, 06:28 PM
Dayyyymmm... this is like total deja vu from 6 or so years ago.. :o:

Were you guys this mean to me back then.... :D:Steff, we all know you are liar, you don't know anyone in the sox organization, why don't you just go away and just leave this website. You and your "sources" aren't wanted here.:D: :tongue:

WSox8404
08-11-2004, 06:28 PM
Just a tad bit of advice.. if you're for real... it's not nice to repeat things people tell you in confidence. Next time you talk to your "owner" buddy.. let him know you're going to be posting his comments on an internet message board. With what you've posted here I can find out easily if you're lying. And if I can.. so can others. Many people here know investors (that's what they are called.. not owners), many people know Bill Melton, and many people even know players :o: .

Just some advice..
Its not really confidence. We talk openly in front of other people and such. He is quite open with things. Well he told me he was an owner at first, then a minority share holder. How many of them are there steff? He told me 50ish.

Iguana775
08-11-2004, 06:29 PM
Lord.. I'm glad I don't remember it.
LOL....yep.

actually i think people were a lot worse.

steff
08-11-2004, 06:29 PM
Seriously Steff.....is it so hard to believe that I know someone? Jesus, its not like I said this guy was my dad or uncle. I work in his building. It was just a chance occurance this happened. The maintanance guy told me about the owner and I didn't believe him. But then I talked with the guy the maintanance guy was talking about. And sure enough he said he was an owner! Oh man, but that can't happen!!! I was still a little skeptical until I saw his briefcase with the White Sox ID card hanging off it and when I got first row seats right behind the Sox dugout for the second home game of the year (the game in which Maggs hit the game winner in the 9th or 10th). Then I knew he was for real.

It's not that you might know an investor.. it's that an investor would tell you this stuff. No offense.. but I don't buy the story either, and it's because I've been told totally contridictory information from others, including players themselves.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the offseason brings.

steff
08-11-2004, 06:31 PM
Its not really confidence. We talk openly in front of other people and such. He is quite open with things. Well he told me he was an owner at first, then a minority share holder. How many of them are there steff? He told me 50ish.

That's interesting.. that he would flap gums about such things. Oh well.

As for how many there are.. that information has been posted at least 100 times on this site.. it's not something that would solidify things for me.

Kogs35
08-11-2004, 06:32 PM
Just wondering--can anyone name a White Sox player, current or last several years, who has Boras as his agent?

--Mrs. Aloha
charles johnson?

steff
08-11-2004, 06:32 PM
LOL....yep.

actually i think people were a lot worse.


Sniff... it's all coming back to me now.. :whiner:


Off to the park to drink my sorrows away. :gulp:

Wanne
08-11-2004, 06:38 PM
The best plan is to build around starting pitching because that's the plan that will win more often than not. I think Pavano is good, but I'm not sure he's the surest pitcher for 9 million we could get. If Clement was going around 9 mil, I'd give it to him and if Pedro was going around 10-11 mil then I think we might be well served to go that route (and hope that this year was a fluke). Odalis Perez would also probably be a pretty good guy to throw 7 mil a year at (his 2.92 has not been due to Dodger Stadium as he has a 2.66 ERA on the road). Odalis might actually be the best option. Russ Ortiz would be a good option too. We can get decent hitting on the cheap. If you keep Thomas, Lee and Konerko then you dont need to do too much work except to acquire a 3B or SS and another outfielder or you could go with a Lee-Harris-Rowand outfield if need be with Roberto resigned for 2B. Then you also need 2 bullpen arms. I feel confident going into next season with a Davis/Burke combo at catcher. Uribe can play short or third depending on who we bring in. My Priority list looks like this:

1 (tie). Quality Bullpen arm
1 (tie). Top-notch Starting pitcher
3. Valentin Replacement
4. 2nd Bullpen arm
5. Outfielder

Olandis Perez...that's who I was thinking we'd go after...moreso for the fact he's a southpaw too. Pavano would be my second choice.

As for Beltran...I think one thing that may favor the Sox over the Yankees is the Latin connection. Hopefully he'll talk to Contreras before he makes any decisions.

samram
08-11-2004, 06:38 PM
Everybody always says we'll never get a Boras client because he hates the Sox. Doesn't the player have any say in this? Also, doesn't anybody find it odd that Boras clients usually demand heavy contracts which this team hasn't been willing to cover? Money talks and Boras is a leech. I'm sure he would have no problem sending anyone here under the right conditions. Whether JR agrees to those or not is another matter.
Agreed. If Boras represented me and he told me I couldn't play for the Sox because he didn't like the Sox or JR, I would tell him to go away. The player has the final say- he's the principal, Boras is the agent. Now, if it's true that Boras won't deal with the Sox, but a client wanted to play for them, or the Sox were offering good money, I think Boras would just have another agent in his firm do the negotiations. OTOH, if JR doesn't want to deal with Boras, which could be the case, that's different.

Win1ForMe
08-11-2004, 06:48 PM
I can't believe this thread is already 5 pages long when it's so obvious that the guy who started it is talking out of his behind. C'mon guys.
Yeah, let's talk about 3rd place instead. Seriously, is there any harm to this discussion?

kittle42
08-11-2004, 06:51 PM
Olandis Perez.
How about Odalis Gary?

Deadguy
08-11-2004, 07:28 PM
Looking at those numbers, it seems as if Beltran shuts it down a little bit when his team isn't in the race. He had a great year last year when KC contended, but this year, his BA and OBP are off.

I don't buy that at all. What player is going to "shut it down" in his contract season? Plus, the Astros brought him in to contribute to a contending team, and technically they are still in contention for the WC.

I guess I'm one of the few people here not impressed with Beltran. I would be very disaapointed if we signed him for more than 14+ million. I'd love to see him end up with the Mets.

OEO Magglio
08-11-2004, 07:32 PM
How about Odalis Gary?LOL:bandance:

samram
08-11-2004, 07:41 PM
I don't buy that at all. What player is going to "shut it down" in his contract season? Plus, the Astros brought him in to contribute to a contending team, and technically they are still in contention for the WC.

I guess I'm one of the few people here not impressed with Beltran. I would be very disaapointed if we signed him for more than 14+ million. I'd love to see him end up with the Mets.
Well, I never said they should sign him, because bullpen help and another starting pitcher would be better uses for the money.

Iguana775
08-11-2004, 07:56 PM
Yeah, let's talk about 3rd place instead. Seriously, is there any harm to this discussion?

yes, there is. we, as baseball and White Sox fans, cannot talk about the possibility of a player playing for our team.

batmanZoSo
08-11-2004, 09:07 PM
Well I talked to my source again today and dug this up. I was mistaken. We are not going to try to get Maggs back for next year and beyond. He was pretty sure of himself when talking about this. I asked him who would be the replacements at short and first and he said he didn't know yet. But here is an interesting tidbit: we are going to go after Beltran. Believe it or not, this is what he said. He said as of now, we have twenty million cleared to spend next year. This does not even include the money we would save if Konerko was traded and Valentin not signed. We did not get into specifics on where this money was coming from, but he was serious about it. For now, that is all.
With 25 million to spend (penciling in Valentin's exit) it would be stupid to get Beltran. That's 17 million right there and we still have no leadoff man, no shortstop, no catcher (sorry, Ben), and a terrible bullpen.

The key here: don't put all your eggs in one basket. The superstar thing don't effin work. We tried that. It failed. What we need is to acquire multiple solid to very good players at various positions. How much better is Beltran than a healthy Magglio? Can you even get that much better than Magglio? I don't see what the point in getting Beltran is. Granted he is better than Magglio, but wowee, we've upgraded one slot in the lineup slightly. We have many, many holes. I would rather see us get no big names (maybe one starter in that range, that's always welcome) and several supplementary-type players who can help address the major weaknesses.

If anything, I would take Magglio's departing 14 million and get another Freddy Garcia/Mark Buehrle caliber pitcher. That'll cost you 8 or 9 million. And that's by far the most I'd put into one player. Then I'd snag the best middle reliever available, another veteran type, a veteran catcher and a shortstop who can lead off.

South Side
08-11-2004, 11:45 PM
WhiteSox8404- Don't worry about it. Some (specific) people on this board think they are the know all of White Sox baseball so you should know by now that if you ever utter a word of knowledge on internal matters or whatnot you are obviously wrong... Don't worry about it, you're story sounds completely legit and like I said before it's nice to have someone share some inside info (without being condescending for once) whether it pans out or not (bussiness deals change)... I think intelligent people know that you're not "lieing". Thanks again...

nodiggity59
08-11-2004, 11:52 PM
Wow - when this thread started I was all gung ho about picking up Beltran, but I now like the idea many have stated concerning signing mid range type players.

How bout a "New Rule": NO WHITE SOX PLAYER MAKES MORE THAN $10mil?

TornLabrum
08-11-2004, 11:53 PM
Steff, we all know you are liar, you don't know anyone in the sox organization, why don't you just go away and just leave this website. You and your "sources" aren't wanted here.:D: :tongue:
I'm still waiting for KW to retire for family reasons! :D:

TornLabrum
08-11-2004, 11:54 PM
LOL....yep.

actually i think people were a lot worse.
I don't think people were nearly as nasty to her as they were to HSC.

Brian26
08-11-2004, 11:55 PM
Hey Brian, kiss my ass, okay buddy? I don't need your crap. What makes you think I have no life and the only way I get my craps and giggles would be to sit here and make up stuff? I have a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. Is it my fault I know one of the owners? No, its not, so kiss it. I already explained how I know the guy and its not like I said he is my dad or anything like that. For Gods sake give it a rest. I even met Bill Melton through my source. He came over to the condo one day in his blue Dodge Durango and waved to me through the window when I was on duty. The owner told him to when he went outside and hopped into the SUV. They went out for dinner that day. For Christ's sake why can't anyone know anybody? Is it that far fetched that someone who posts on WSI can actually know someone? Wait moron. Next time Melton comes around I am gonna take a picture with him when I have my security uniform on and then download it onto the computer. Then, when you see the picture I wanna hear what you have to say.
Posts like this make me long for the days when HSC was running wild on this board with her Koch-for-Foulke trade rumors.

Get back to me in 6 months when the Sox DON'T make a run at Beltran and they resign Jose for another year, ok?

Brian26
08-11-2004, 11:56 PM
I don't think people were nearly as nasty to her as they were to HSC.
GRRR! You beat me to the HSC reference by a minute!!!! :D:

TornLabrum
08-11-2004, 11:56 PM
How about Odalis Gary?
What do you get when you cross Odalis Perez with Jim Landis?

gosox41
08-12-2004, 09:29 AM
Yeah. Well it's clear to me that we don't have 20 million sitting around. If payroll is going to be increased 20 million that's a different story but that didn't sound as though that's what the source said so I'm really puzzled.
It's bot going to be an increase of $20 mill. when compared to 2004's payroll. It is going to be $20 mill in addition to whatever is locked up for next year.

The important think is people here actually think the payroll will be $80-85 mill next season and will complain about it all next season. THey'll say how JR lied to them. Never mind not one JR quote was cited. JR himself clearly logged onto this thread and swore an $80-85 mill payrolll.

Amazing how many people can't get simple facts when its in black and white and right in front of htem (and I'm in no way referriong to you, just anyone who flat out said the payroll next year was going to be $80-85 mill).

They're wrong.



Bob

gosox41
08-12-2004, 09:33 AM
Just a tad bit of advice.. if you're for real... it's not nice to repeat things people tell you in confidence. Next time you talk to your "owner" buddy.. let him know you're going to be posting his comments on an internet message board. With what you've posted here I can find out easily if you're lying. And if I can.. so can others. Many people here know investors (that's what they are called.. not owners), many people know Bill Melton, and many people even know players :o: .

Just some advice..
So Steff, is it true? Also investor/owner is technically the same thing.:smile:


Bob

BigHurt359300
08-16-2004, 09:32 PM
Olandis Perez...that's who I was thinking we'd go after...moreso for the fact he's a southpaw too. Pavano would be my second choice.

As for Beltran...I think one thing that may favor the Sox over the Yankees is the Latin connection. Hopefully he'll talk to Contreras before he makes any decisions.


Jose does not look like he is needed next year, so thats good

Dionys Cesar is hitting 341 through 14 Games with 3 SBs
Wilson Valdez is hitting 312 through 52 Games with 7 SBs

So that clears up alot of room for a beltran, or maggs, or some pitchers

SOXSINCE'70
08-16-2004, 10:11 PM
[QUOTE=pinwheels3530]Carlos Beltran agent is Scott Boras enough said.QUOTE]

Exactly!! No Scott Dumbass client will ever sign with the Sox.You're living in a pipe dream if you think this will ever occur.I agree with you.3 needs:

PITCHING,PITCHING,PITCHING!!!!!:angry: :angry:

SOXSINCE'70
08-16-2004, 10:13 PM
What do you get when you cross Odalis Perez with Jim Landis?
I don't know,ViTalis????:D: :D: :D: :D: :D:

steff
08-17-2004, 08:32 AM
So Steff, is it true? Also investor/owner is technically the same thing.:smile:


Bob
Not where I sit. An investor invests. An owner... hmm.. owns.


:rolleyes:

Wealz
08-17-2004, 08:51 AM
One thing to maybe consider when thinking about the 2005 payroll is if the Expos are sold that should add at least $10M to the other 29 teams coffers.

gosox41
08-17-2004, 09:12 AM
Not where I sit. An investor invests. An owner... hmm.. owns.


:rolleyes:
You must have a lot of free time.


Bob

steff
08-17-2004, 01:09 PM
You must have a lot of free time.


Bob
Barely. Very busy here.. But I deal with the owners and investors of our company each and every day. Experience over gossip anyday.

alohafri
08-17-2004, 02:07 PM
If someone invests in a business (i.e., buys stock) they would also technically be an owner....however, that doesn't mean an owner (in that sense) would have control over the business's operations. For example, the officers and Board of Directors control the business--and the board and officers are elected by their percentage interest in the company. In other words, the more $$ you have invested, the more control you have. But even if you only invested $1000 and the President of the company invested $1 million, you would still be an "owner"--you just wouldn't have any control over the company.


--Mrs. Aloha

eshunn2001
08-17-2004, 02:15 PM
Not where I sit. An investor invests. An owner... hmm.. owns.


:rolleyes:But Tecnically an investor is part owner, I know I live it.

steff
08-18-2004, 06:26 AM
If someone invests in a business (i.e., buys stock) they would also technically be an owner....however, that doesn't mean an owner (in that sense) would have control over the business's operations. For example, the officers and Board of Directors control the business--and the board and officers are elected by their percentage interest in the company. In other words, the more $$ you have invested, the more control you have. But even if you only invested $1000 and the President of the company invested $1 million, you would still be an "owner"--you just wouldn't have any control over the company.


--Mrs. Aloha
Thank you Peg. My head hurts... :-)

gosox41
08-18-2004, 08:51 AM
But Tecnically an investor is part owner, I know I live it.
I agree. Some of us don't. But I do.


Bob

JDP
08-18-2004, 09:07 AM
What about simply signing a top notch closer (see: Benitez). This moves Takatsu into middle relief or setup duty and has a nice bullpen core of Benitez, Takatsu and Marte to build around. I think a viable #1-4 can be had via FA (Pedro, Clement, Pavano, Ortiz, you choose), or if things fall into place the Sox can (or want to) package Konerko with a prospect or two for a solid starter and solid bullpen arm [Konerko, Borchard + prospects to the Marlins for Willis and Mota.] Either way, there are plenty of options for KW to work with, but the bottm line should be to shore up the rotation and bullpen.

steff
08-18-2004, 01:09 PM
But Tecnically an investor is part owner, I know I live it.
You do..

As an investor how much financial planning are you responsible for? What are your revenue increase responsibilities? How much SG&A are you accountable for? How many others salaries do you control? What are your profit margin %'s? And are you responsible if those fall below expectations and if so, do you take a "pay cut" when they fall..?? Do you forecast revenues? Are you responsible for allocations? Do you participate in assuring the balance sheet is correct? Do you have input on the P&L?

TornLabrum
08-18-2004, 01:15 PM
You do..

As an investor how much financial planning are you responsible for? What are your revenue increase responsibilities? How much SG&A are you accountable for? How many others salaries do you control? What are your profit margin %'s? And are you responsible if those fall below expectations and if so, do you take a "pay cut" when they fall..?? Do you forecast revenues? Are you responsible for allocations? Do you participate in assuring the balance sheet is correct? Do you have input on the P&L?
I think this is a debate over semantics. The people who do what you are describing would be described as "management." Management and ownership may or may not be two different things. My father-in-law owned and managed his own small business. On the other hand, my mother owns several shares of Sears stock (along with some of the companies Sears has spun off in recent years). She is asked for her proxy each year because she is a part owner of Sears (one of probably millions). However, she takes no part in the day to day management of the corporation.

steff
08-18-2004, 01:16 PM
I agree. Some of us don't. But I do.
Bob

If that were the argument, then you'd be slightly right. Just cause someone forks over some cash doesn't mean squat which is the point Mrs. Aloha made. Just cause you invest doesn't mean you have crap to do with any day to day operations.

But back to the point.. The Sox are "owned" by approximately 40+ people. They established a board many moons ago and that board makes decisions. There is not one person in control of anything of any magnitude regardless of what your "friend" told you. That's what investors say. You'd think they would know, eh?
:rolleyes:

steff
08-18-2004, 01:23 PM
I think this is a debate over semantics. The people who do what you are describing would be described as "management." Management and ownership may or may not be two different things. My father-in-law owned and managed his own small business. On the other hand, my mother owns several shares of Sears stock (along with some of the companies Sears has spun off in recent years). She is asked for her proxy each year because she is a part owner of Sears (one of probably millions). However, she takes no part in the day to day management of the corporation.

I don't see how comparing Sears (who, IIRC, allow employee buy in's - that's how my grandmother got stock anyway) to the Sox. In the Sox instance, their management is the owners/investors, correct? Correct me if I am wrong Hal, but for all these years I have been told that the board is a very active part in the monthly financial review (coming from the person who plans the meetings) and do make decisions all the way down to the SG&A & EBITDA lines.
In my grandmothers case (and my mother who owns Wal-Mart stock from working there years ago) their buy in does not allow them to see anything more than a proxy and/or dividend reports. To my understanding that is not the way the Sox work.

samram
08-18-2004, 02:08 PM
I don't see how comparing Sears (who, IIRC, allow employee buy in's - that's how my grandmother got stock anyway) to the Sox. In the Sox instance, their management is the owners/investors, correct? Correct me if I am wrong Hal, but for all these years I have been told that the board is a very active part in the monthly financial review (coming from the person who plans the meetings) and do make decisions all the way down to the SG&A & EBITDA lines.
In my grandmothers case (and my mother who owns Wal-Mart stock from working there years ago) their buy in does not allow them to see anything more than a proxy and/or dividend reports. To my understanding that is not the way the Sox work.
Actually, investors/owners, and the rest of us can see all financials for Sears and Wal-Mart, unless they want big problems with the SEC- otherwise, how would people judge how they want to invest. It's like Hal said, it's all semantics. In the Sox case, ownership and management is the same thing, which is not the case for the great majority of publicly traded companies.

eshunn2001
08-18-2004, 04:31 PM
You do..

As an investor how much financial planning are you responsible for? What are your revenue increase responsibilities? How much SG&A are you accountable for? How many others salaries do you control? What are your profit margin %'s? And are you responsible if those fall below expectations and if so, do you take a "pay cut" when they fall..?? Do you forecast revenues? Are you responsible for allocations? Do you participate in assuring the balance sheet is correct? Do you have input on the P&L?

Matters how big of an investor you are in our company, We have 3 major investors who have lots of say so in what we do. WWW.Dallaseuropean.com (http://www.Dallaseuropean.com) It tells you all about us.

eshunn2001
08-18-2004, 04:41 PM
You do..

As an investor how much financial planning are you responsible for? What are your revenue increase responsibilities? How much SG&A are you accountable for? How many others salaries do you control? What are your profit margin %'s? And are you responsible if those fall below expectations and if so, do you take a "pay cut" when they fall..?? Do you forecast revenues? Are you responsible for allocations? Do you participate in assuring the balance sheet is correct? Do you have input on the P&L?
When you invest 5 to 10 million in my company, you take part in all the above. All I know is if I sell they are going to be well compensated, and to me that it owning.

steff
08-18-2004, 05:11 PM
Actually, investors/owners, and the rest of us can see all financials for Sears and Wal-Mart, unless they want big problems with the SEC- otherwise, how would people judge how they want to invest. It's like Hal said, it's all semantics. In the Sox case, ownership and management is the same thing, which is not the case for the great majority of publicly traded companies.

The Sox are not public. Sears and Wal-Mart are employee "owned" (a % anyway). The Sox don't have to show anyone outside of their investment group anything.

steff
08-18-2004, 05:14 PM
When you invest 5 to 10 million in my company, you take part in all the above. All I know is if I sell they are going to be well compensated, and to me that it owning.

Which is the point I was trying to make... All of the investors have an interest in the way the Sox are run. They want to make $$. They don't leave it up to Jerry to make decisions that effect their financial livelyhood.

Brian26
08-18-2004, 05:15 PM
The Sox don't have to show anyone outside of their investment group anything.

Tell Bud Selig that :D:

steff
08-18-2004, 05:17 PM
Tell Bud Selig that :D:

Ha, ha. Smarty pants. :tongue:

samram
08-18-2004, 05:25 PM
The Sox are not public. Sears and Wal-Mart are employee "owned" (a % anyway). The Sox don't have to show anyone outside of their investment group anything.I know the Sox aren't publicly owned. I'm just saying that being able to see financial information does not necessarily separate management and ownership. I guess I'm confused about your delineation between management and ownership. Not taking part in the day-to-day decision making of the organization doesn't make one not an owner. I would say if you have rights to dividends/distributions of profits, and/or voting rights, you're an owner (generally speaking), even if you don't take part in the day-to-day operations. Therefore, the people you call Sox investors are also owners. Now, if the Sox are organized as an LLP or GP, and the term partner or member/investor is more appropriate than owner, then I see what you're saying.

steff
08-18-2004, 05:33 PM
I know the Sox aren't publicly owned. I'm just saying that being able to see financial information does not necessarily separate management and ownership. I guess I'm confused about your delineation between management and ownership. Not taking part in the day-to-day decision making of the organization doesn't make one not an owner. I would say if you have rights to dividends/distributions of profits, and/or voting rights, you're an owner (generally speaking), even if you don't take part in the day-to-day operations. Therefore, the people you call Sox investors are also owners. Now, if the Sox are organized as an LLP or GP, and the term partner or member/investor is more appropriate than owner, then I see what you're saying.
Don't they have to be a LLP with "investors" "owning" varying % of the "company".?

Maybe they are both..?

samram
08-18-2004, 05:44 PM
Don't they have to be a LLP with "investors" "owning" varying % of the "company".?

Maybe they are both..?
Good question- I don't know how they're organized. I think Reinsdorf refers to himself as "managing partner", so they could be an LLP. I think a lot of organizations used to elect to report as a partnership for tax purposes and as a corporation for liability purposes, but the LLC act probably makes that type of election unnecessary. Maybe they're just an LLC?

steff
08-18-2004, 05:48 PM
Good question- I don't know how they're organized. I think Reinsdorf refers to himself as "managing partner", so they could be an LLP. I think a lot of organizations used to elect to report as a partnership for tax purposes and as a corporation for liability purposes, but the LLC act probably makes that type of election unnecessary. Maybe they're just an LLC?

But the LLC would make sense to the "voting" aspect of decision making.. wouldn't you agree..?

samram
08-18-2004, 06:03 PM
But the LLC would make sense to the "voting" aspect of decision making.. wouldn't you agree..?
Yes it would, since I doubt the Sox are a general partnership. Therefore, each person with an interest would be referred to as a "member." That probably makes the most sense.