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View Full Version : Thomas is a HOF


PorkChopExpress
08-10-2004, 01:11 PM
On espn 1000, Dan Patrick is discussing Edgar Martinez's chances of getting into the hall of fame, and mentioned that his chances are hurt by playing at the same time with someone like Frank Thomas who is going to be a hall of famer. Nice for the big guy to get a little respect.

CWWTWS1
08-10-2004, 01:16 PM
Frank Thomas is without question going to the HOF. I still say only Barry Bonds impacts the game more the Frank does.

Hangar18
08-10-2004, 01:57 PM
I miss Big Frank. Despite his not wanting to speak to the media too much (something Ive ALWAYS said was more the MEDIA twisting things and trying to create a story/if he was member of that other team, the MEDIA
would pee-their-pants writing glowing things about him) , Thomas is Well Spoken, and I LOVE hearing him
talk about HITTING and Baseball Situations. I was ecstatic to hear
Thomas sounding HAPPY and saying right from the Get-Go the other day,
that Hes "coming back" and that OZZY made the Clubhouse Great and everyone
liked him and he cant wait for Spring Training to finish what they started.
Frank Thomas, unlike other "stars" in this city who arrived because noone could pay them, or they were given away, is our guy. We Drafted Him.
He came up thru the system. Hes played in the old park. Hes had his ups.
Hes had his Downs. He deserves a World Series Ring with the White Sox.
and he Deserves going to the HOF as a WHITE SOX. Hopefully Uncle Jerry
doesnt screw that up either.

pinwheels3530
08-10-2004, 07:39 PM
Frank Thomas should be a HOFer don't tell Maroitti that though:D:

LongLiveFisk
08-10-2004, 08:14 PM
That is one trip to Cooperstown I don't intend to miss. :D:

HomeFish
08-10-2004, 08:29 PM
I'd like to see some stats on that. I've always thought of Edgar as the superior player.

Daver
08-10-2004, 08:29 PM
I'd like to see some stats on that. I've always thought of Edgar as the superior player.

LMAO!!!!!!

Look it up yourself.

SOXSINCE'70
08-10-2004, 08:36 PM
I'd like to see some stats on that. I've always thought of Edgar as the superior player.
Please say you're joking.With the numbers Thomas put up between '91 and '97,it should be a lock.He was one of the 3 toughest outs in the A.L. during those years.Hope he makes it,but being a DH,the HOFers may not think a DH belongs in the hall,but I do.:cool: :cool:

pczarapa
08-10-2004, 09:06 PM
Frank Thomas is without question going to the HOF. I still say only Barry Bonds impacts the game more the Frank does.
Amen, I think Thomas is a lock

Brian26
08-10-2004, 09:24 PM
Thomas is a lock. He put up consistent power numbers before the ball got juiced, and his other numbers (average, on base %, walks, etc) are unbelievable from '91 to '97.

AnkleSox
08-10-2004, 09:58 PM
Please say you're joking.With the numbers Thomas put up between '91 and '97,it should be a lock.He was one of the 3 toughest outs in the A.L. during those years.Hope he makes it,but being a DH,the HOFers may not think a DH belongs in the hall,but I do.:cool: :cool:

Well, if you look at the years from 91 to 97, he was primarily a first baseman, something that might help his cause since these were some of his best years.

voodoochile
08-10-2004, 10:00 PM
Well, if you look at the years from 91 to 97, he was primarily a first baseman, something that might help his cause since these were some of his best years.
Those were some of the best years anyone has ever had, period and as good a streatch as ANY right handed hitter has EVER had.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:03 PM
Those were some of the best years anyone has ever had, period and as good a streatch as ANY right handed hitter has EVER had.
Agreed. Frank is one of the greatest hitters in baseball history. Anyone who can't see that just doesn't understand baseball.

idseer
08-10-2004, 10:03 PM
................. g .. ab .... r .... h .. hr .. rbi .. bb .. k .. avg . obp . slg . tb
rice ........ 2089 8225 1249 2452 382 1451 670 1423 .298 .352 .502 4129

thomas ... 1851 6611 1255 2048 418 1390 1386 1077 .310 .428 .568 3752

either thomas does not yet have hof numbers ... or jim rice should be in the hall.

thomas does have the power edge, rice has the rbi edge. the one thing that differs greatly between the 2 is thomas's walk total. more than double in 2 less years! so frank has the obp and runs scored per ab. the question is, does thomas belong and rice doesn't because he walked so much more?

voodoochile
08-10-2004, 10:07 PM
Even with having a few worse/injury plagued years recently, Frank is still top 10 OBP ALL TIME.

If 1994 doesn't get canceled by strike people would still be talking about his stats that year 50 years from now...

Year TM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1994 CWS 113 399 106 141 34 1 38 101 109 61 2 3 .353 .487 .729 1.216

Project that out over 160 games...

Lip Man 1
08-10-2004, 10:09 PM
Once he gets to 500 home runs it will no longer be an issue. After all how many players do you know with 500 home runs AND a batting championship?


Lip

idseer
08-10-2004, 10:11 PM
Even with having a few worse/injury plagued years recently, Frank is still top 10 OBP ALL TIME.

If 1994 doesn't get canceled by strike people would still be talking about his stats that year 50 years from now...

Season TM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1994CWS113399106141341381011096123.353.487.7291.21 6there is no doubt about it. but i doubt selections would be made based on what might have been.

i think thomas still needs a couple decent years yet. he's been too interrupted the last 3 years.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:14 PM
Even with having a few worse/injury plagued years recently, Frank is still top 10 OBP ALL TIME.

If 1994 doesn't get canceled by strike people would still be talking about his stats that year 50 years from now...

Year TM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1994 CWS 113 399 106 141 34 1 38 101 109 61 2 3 .353 .487 .729 1.216

Project that out over 160 games...
I don't think I've ever seen a hitter dominate baseball the way Frank did that season. It's going to be a long time before anyone approaches that level of play again.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:15 PM
Once he gets to 500 home runs it will no longer be an issue. After all how many players do you know with 500 home runs AND a batting championship?


Lip
:hitless

"I have five hundred home runs."

:hurt

"Maybe in tee-ball."

:hitless

"WHAAA!"

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:16 PM
Once he gets to 500 home runs it will no longer be an issue. After all how many players do you know with 500 home runs AND a batting championship?


Lip
To offer a more serious answer to your question, Lip, Barry Bonds is the only person I can think of who's done that.

AnkleSox
08-10-2004, 10:18 PM
Those were some of the best years anyone has ever had, period and as good a streatch as ANY right handed hitter has EVER had.

That's exactly what I mean, and his being primarily a DH now should not have any bearing on whether or not he's a hall of famer. Hell, even if he was just a DH then those numbers are more than worthy of the HOF.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:21 PM
That's exactly what I mean, and his being primarily a DH now should not have any bearing on whether or not he's a hall of famer. Hell, even if he was just a DH then those numbers are more than worthy of the HOF.
To this day, I still find it amusing that so many baseball officials hate the DH, even though it has been a legitamite position for more than thirty years.

idseer
08-10-2004, 10:30 PM
Those were some of the best years anyone has ever had, period and as good a streatch as ANY right handed hitter has EVER had.
the problem as i see it is .... those numbers just aren't flashy.
he did lead in avg once. but he's never lead in homeruns and he's never lead in rbi's. i'm not saying it's right, but i think voters are 'flashy' consious.
saying that he had 30+ hr's, 100 + bb's, and 100+ rbi's for so many consecutive years is fine and those numbers do compare to ted williams ... but ted williams also lead the league in hitting 6 times, and in home runs 4 times, and in rbi's 4 times.

what i'm saying is that i just don't think he's a lock. his lifetime numbers are just not that impressive. his stats per 162 games totals ARE. but how many voters will really look at that?

he needs more productive years imo to be assured the hof.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 10:32 PM
he needs more productive years imo to be assured the hof.
I think Frank knows that, which is why he's so committed to getting ready for next season. He was having a great year until he injured his ankle, so I would imagine that he wants to make up for what he lost.

idseer
08-10-2004, 10:44 PM
I think Frank knows that, which is why he's so committed to getting ready for next season. He was having a great year until he injured his ankle, so I would imagine that he wants to make up for what he lost.
i'm sure that's what he wants too. let's face it, he's always been very interested in his own stats and i'm confident the hall would mean a great deal to him.

mjmcend
08-10-2004, 11:05 PM
First player in MLB history to hit .300, hit 20 home runs, have over 100 walks, RBIs and runs scored in seven straight seasons.

You can't discount that. If the name of the game is consistency (and Greg Maddux would agree with me) then no did it better than Frank over a 7 year period. Ever.

idseer
08-10-2004, 11:07 PM
First player in MLB history to hit .300, hit 20 home runs, have over 100 walks, RBIs and runs scored in seven straight seasons.

You can't discount that. If the name of the game is consistency (and Greg Maddux would agree with me) then no did it better than Frank over a 7 year period. Ever.
too bad 7 years isn't enough time to get you elected, isn't it?

mjmcend
08-10-2004, 11:09 PM
too bad 7 years isn't enough time to get you elected, isn't it?
It is not like he hasn't produced in his other years as well.

illinibk
08-10-2004, 11:15 PM
too bad 7 years isn't enough time to get you elected, isn't it?
Tell that to Koufax

Nellie_Fox
08-10-2004, 11:18 PM
too bad 7 years isn't enough time to get you elected, isn't it?Sandy Koufax really only had five great years, 62-66. He was pretty mediocre prior to that. But oh, those five.

idseer
08-11-2004, 08:04 AM
Sandy Koufax really only had five great years, 62-66. He was pretty mediocre prior to that. But oh, those five.
very true.
but i do see 4 differences.
1. those years were spectacular ... much more so than .300/30/100.
he was head and shoulders above his contemporaries.
2. his career was stopped short because of ... wasn't it arthitis? so he had the 'feel sorry' thing going for him.
3. took his team to a world series championship
4. the media loved him!

thomas's 'string' of very good years were interesting but none of them were spectacular by themselves. i'm reminded of hank aaron's career. none of his year were outstandingly spectacular. no 50 hr seasons, 132 rbi was his season's high, and he hit .355 once but never more than .328 otherwise.
but look at his yearly averages for 23 years. .305/37/113! 23 years!
but he just wasn't lucky enough to string those 7 years in a row together. and let's face it, it did take luck. most players have an injury somewhere in there that disrupts those kinds of strings. thomas avoided it for 7 years.

i'm not knocking franks career tho i'm sure you probably think i am. i'm really playing more the devil's advocate here. i'm trying to look at him with an unpartisan eye as hof voters will. if he never played another game, they will see a guy whose team never won a title, a guy who lead the league in avg. one time and had a string of 7 very good years.
no 500 homers.
only 1439 rbi's.
strictly a dh thru most of his career.
a troubled career regarding the media and teammates.

there are players in the hall who do not compare with frank thomas, but then the same can be said for jim rice.
i just think he'd have a hard time of it unless he can pump up his career numbers for another few years.

ode to veeck
08-11-2004, 09:58 AM
Anyone who K's 15 YankMes in a WS game deserves the HOF IMHO, but I don't get to vote.

Gimm
08-11-2004, 11:00 AM
Why would Frank retire now?

He is only 36 - Edgar Martinez was a very good hitter until he broke his toe in August of 2003 at the age of 40.5. Palmeiro was putting up big-time numbers until he turned 38 in 2002 and then came back to have a solid season in 2003. Bonds is 40 and has an OBP of 600.

Let Frank heal and then play another 3-4 years in the Sox uniform, hopefully 2 of those years being "Frank" years.

Deadguy
08-11-2004, 05:42 PM
That is one trip to Cooperstown I don't intend to miss. :D:
See you there in 2013. Join me beforehand for some beer and grilled hamburgers. I got it all planned out already.

Deadguy
08-11-2004, 05:58 PM
................. g .. ab .... r .... h .. hr .. rbi .. bb .. k .. avg . obp . slg . tb
rice ........ 2089 8225 1249 2452 382 1451 670 1423 .298 .352 .502 4129

thomas ... 1851 6611 1255 2048 418 1390 1386 1077 .310 .428 .568 3752

either thomas does not yet have hof numbers ... or jim rice should be in the hall.

thomas does have the power edge, rice has the rbi edge. the one thing that differs greatly between the 2 is thomas's walk total. more than double in 2 less years! so frank has the obp and runs scored per ab. the question is, does thomas belong and rice doesn't because he walked so much more?
Are you intentionally being daft just to play devil's advocate, or do you actually believe this nonsense.

http://www.baseballreference.com/t/thomasfr04.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomafr04.shtml)

http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ricehi01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riceji01.shtml)

Just look at the adjusted OPS numbers. Rice only had two years that were better than the year that Thomas had last year. Thomas string of adjusted OPS numbers for his first seven years better just about everyone outside of maybe a handful of players. All those walks have value you know, since the difference between getting on base and making an out can change the entire complexion of the game.

If you're just looking at raw numbers, Jim Rice had just 1457 Runs Created in 9058 PAs, while Thomas had 1621 in 8158 PAs, coming into the season. So in nearly 1,000 fewer PAs, Thomas still blew Rice away, and Thomas is still not close to finished. So yes, Thomas does belong because he walks more.

idseer
08-11-2004, 06:47 PM
Are you intentionally being daft just to play devil's advocate, or do you actually believe this nonsense.

http://www.baseballreference.com/t/thomasfr04.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomafr04.shtml)

http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ricehi01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riceji01.shtml)

Just look at the adjusted OPS numbers. Rice only had two years that were better than the year that Thomas had last year. Thomas string of adjusted OPS numbers for his first seven years better just about everyone outside of maybe a handful of players. All those walks have value you know, since the difference between getting on base and making an out can change the entire complexion of the game.

If you're just looking at raw numbers, Jim Rice had just 1457 Runs Created in 9058 PAs, while Thomas had 1621 in 8158 PAs, coming into the season. So in nearly 1,000 fewer PAs, Thomas still blew Rice away, and Thomas is still not close to finished. So yes, Thomas does belong because he walks more.
a sox fan can play with the numbers all day long and it won't matter one whit!
the only thing that matters is the voters and the voters are NOT going to give a damn about what you just pointed out.
i have already read one voter's answer to the question of frank's hof chances and the first thing he pointed out was the comparison to jim rice.

the point of my post, incidently, was NOT that frank is/was no better than rice, but why he'd have a tough time entering with his CURRENT numbers.
if you wish to say how daft i must be to suggest such a thing i guess no one will stop you, but at least try to understand a post before you shoot your mouth off.

Gimm
08-11-2004, 07:30 PM
Let me reiterate

Why would Frank retire now?

He is only 36 - Edgar Martinez was a very good hitter until he broke his toe in August of 2003 at the age of 40.5. Palmeiro was putting up big-time numbers until he turned 38 in 2002 and then came back to have a solid season in 2003. Bonds is 40 and has an OBP of 600.

Let Frank heal and then play another 3-4 years in the Sox uniform, hopefully 2 of those years being "Frank" years.

Frank being a DH and playing in the Juice Era is going to hurt him.


That's why he needs to (and will) play another 3 years........barring an injury. Let's run the Rice and Thomas comparisons then, shall we?