PDA

View Full Version : What is the Fisk story?


FightingBillini
08-10-2004, 12:39 PM
This was brought up on another thread. I am a little too young to remember this, can you guys tell me what happened between Fisk and the Sox? I know that he hates management, and thats why he went into the hall wearing a 'B' on his cap. Please refresh me.

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 12:46 PM
This was brought up on another thread. I am a little too young to remember this, can you guys tell me what happened between Fisk and the Sox? I know that he hates management, and thats why he went into the hall wearing a 'B' on his cap. Please refresh me.
The rift between Fisk and Sox managment has existed for several years. It started in 1986, when Ken Harrelson, then the Sox GM, decided that Fisk's days as a catcher "were over," and that he would be better able to prolong his career by becoming an outfielder. Fisk played only a few games in left field before being moved back to his normal position.

Seven years later, not long after Fisk had broken Bob Boone's record for games started by a catcher, the Sox released Pudge at the start of a roadtrip. There was no advance notice or warning. There was no chance for the fans to say goodbye to Fisk one last time. The Sox arrived in Cleveland, and Fisk was given his unconditional release. A rotten move from a rotten organization.

Mickster
08-10-2004, 12:54 PM
The rift between Fisk and Sox managment has existed for several years. It started in 1986, when Ken Harrelson, then the Sox GM, decided that Fisk's days as a catcher "were over," and that he would be better able to prolong his career by becoming an outfielder. Fisk played only a few games in left field before being moved back to his normal position.

Seven years later, not long after Fisk had broken Bob Boone's record for games started by a catcher, the Sox released Pudge at the start of a roadtrip. There was no advance notice or warning. There was no chance for the fans to say goodbye to Fisk one last time. The Sox arrived in Cleveland, and Fisk was given his unconditional release. A rotten move from a rotten organization.
My understanding of the release in Cleveland (and I could be wrong) was that he was left in Cleveland and forced to find his own way back to Chicago at his own cost. Pretty sad. :(:

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 12:59 PM
My understanding of the release in Cleveland (and I could be wrong) was that he was left in Cleveland and forced to find his own way back to Chicago at his own cost. Pretty sad. :(:
I think you're right. Reinsdorf dropped the ball on this one. Can't say I'm surprised.

Lip Man 1
08-10-2004, 01:07 PM
From Donn Pall's interview with WSI:

ML: In June the Sox made what turned out to be a major public relations disaster when they released Fisk while the Sox were in Cleveland. Compounding the problem was that they didnít even hold a press conference to announce it, they sent faxes to the local media. Tell me what happened that day and how Carlton reacted to it and for that matter what the feeling was a few days earlier on "Carlton Fisk Night" at Comiskey Park after he broke the record for games caught..

DP: "When we had that night for him I turned out to be the winning pitcher when we beat the Rangers in extra innings. I got Carlton to sign the game ball from that night. Bo Jackson went around asking guys if theyíd donate five hundred dollars each and we surprised Pudge by getting him a motorcycle which Bo drove to home plate during the ceremonies. After the game the guys had a big party right in the clubhouse. It was great! Later that evening guys went out on the field and started running around and sliding into the bases just like you saw in "Bull Durham." The party went so long into the night that a lot of the guys stayed and slept in the clubhouse because we had an afternoon game the next day! That night is something I wonít forget."

"As far as Pudge having lost it, I donít agree with that at all. He still worked very hard but the problem was he was only playing maybe once a week and when you are at that age, not playing causes you to lose your skills quickly. He and Gene (Lamont), didnít get along at all and it started one day when Pudge got thrown out for arguing balls and strikes with an ump. He must have been out there two or three minutes and during that entire time, Gene never came out of the dugout! I mean managers always come out to defend their players and Gene didnít do that. I lost some respect for him that day and Iím sure the other guys did as well."

"We had heard rumblings that something could be happening but it was a poor decision on the part of the Sox to wait until we were in Cleveland before doing something. I mean why have Pudge get on the plane if youíre going to release him? That morning Ron Schueler called him and told him the Sox let him go. That night weíre at the game and Pudge is sitting in the stands yelling at us! He was saying stuff like "you guys suck!" and everybody got a big laugh out of it."

"I talked to Pudge and he told me he was going to go way out in center field for the rest of the game. I asked him why and he said he was going to sit next to the guy who used to beat on that drum! Pudge said Ďevery time Iíve come in here that guy was beating his drum and it drove me nuts, so tonight Iím going to sit next to him,í and he did. He bought the guy a few beers and had a great time."

ML: In another incredible public relations blunder you and Fisk were turned away by security guards before Game #1 of the ALCS. I guess you just wanted to say Ďhelloí to the guys didnít you?

DP: "We got to the game early and yes we tried to get in the clubhouse. The security guards who were there, they were the regular guys that had been there all season. When we tried to go in for a moment, the guard said that major league baseball ordered that we couldnít come in. I thought he was pretty embarrassed about it because he kept kind of shifting his weight from one foot to another and looking down. He said that he felt really bad about it. I thought it was ridiculous. I mean we werenít agents or a relative of a player, we were players. I could understand about me but how could you not allow Fisk, the guy who was the captain of the team, to come in for a minute and wish everybody luck?"

"Pudge left the park and I followed him into the parking lot for awhile. I had tickets to the game so I could get back in but Carlton didnít have any. He was furious and I think he never forgot about it. I mean come on, somebody couldnít have invited him up into a luxury box or get him a seat?"
---------------------

To this day many feel the decision to bar Fisk from the clubhouse was at the direction of the Sox owner and not MLB. Those who have that slant also include many members of the media.

Lip

FightingBillini
08-10-2004, 01:21 PM
That is disgusting. Just anther black eye for the franchise. God, I hope Jerry gives up soon. :selljerry He is such a sniveling piece of crap. Its a damn shame that current ownership has shamed this franchise time and time again.
We need to embrace our stars, and keep them around for their entire careers (ahem, Maggs), and well after their careers. We need to have old timers games. Fans love those, and they love having a constant in personel. If Im not mistaken, our last old timers game was in 1990.

Tekijawa
08-10-2004, 01:23 PM
yup, just as disgusting as I remember. I still get sick to my stomach everytime I hear that story about him getting turned away. Boy to have a guy like that as a coach, Garland would be an all star.... Willie, juan and all the other young guys would know how the game is supposed to be played... There wouldn't be a third the ammount of base running or other fundamental errors because you'd get an earfull from Carlton... The same way he gave Deion Sanders an earfull for drawing a dollar sign in the batters box with his bat before stepping in... When I have kids I'd love to have a guy like him teach them baseball... who cares if the games took 9 hours when he was catching, at least you knew everything was being done right!

Brian26
08-10-2004, 01:38 PM
I forgot how great that Don Pall interview was. Nice job, Lip and the Pope.

StillMissOzzie
08-10-2004, 03:44 PM
That was a great interview, Lip. I read that once a while ago and had forgot all about it. Much as I regret piling on for some of the shabby treatment Sox management has heaped on a great HOF'er, I believe that there were also some pretty acrimonious arbitration hearings / contract negotiations in there over the years, too. Overall, plenty of shameful behavior.

SMO
:angry:

Baby Fisk
08-10-2004, 03:49 PM
Oh man, this is too depressing to relive. *fighting back tears of rage* :angry:


Someday, Fisk will return. Someday...

RKMeibalane
08-10-2004, 03:52 PM
Oh man, this is too depressing to relive. *fighting back tears of rage* :angry:


Someday, Fisk will return. Someday...
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

*Breathing*

1917
08-10-2004, 03:58 PM
As far as retiring a Red Sox....the choice was given to the Pudge by the HOF...Red Sox or White Sox....he choose the Red Sox for 2 reasons
1. It was the team he grew up loving and rooting for in New Hampshire
2. When most people think of him, outside of Chicago, they remember him as a Red Sox and the "Stay Fair, Stay Fair" moment that everyone in the nation knows.
I was watching the Sports Century on him, the Red Sox management screwed him too....apparently mailing papers that he needed to sign late, but the post mark was legally the day before they were due so they were within there rights, but by the time he got them, the offer experied and they released him....something like that....the Boston Fans were heartbroken as well......but Carlton gave props to the fans of Chicago and Boston in his HOF speech...saying his career was a tale of 2 cities....He loved the Chicago Fans, Players, City (still lives here obviously) Coaches.....just not the higher up's....but the reason for the B was for what i said above, not because he didn't like/love the White Sox years.

Sell Jerry Sell!
08-10-2004, 04:42 PM
1-Fisk will never come back due to a stupid stipulation that the red sox have. If you take a tour of fenway this is the first part of the tour. there is a room with retired numbers and effective with Pudge's retirement, they instituted a rule that in order to retire your number you have to be affiliated with Red Sox. Fisk is a special consultant. If at anytime you are not affiliated with the red sox (ie become a coach of the white sox) they will remove your number from the retired numbers.

2-The biggest fallacy with baseball fans is that players get to choose their hats upon induction into the hall of fame. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! The hall of fame was a committee that votes on the hat to be worn. When we think of fisk we think of the sox but when the nation thinks of fisk, it's the 75 series. I know this for a fact because when scammy was caught with cork my friend drove the chairwoman of the board of the hall of fame and asked her that question and that was her reply. his next question was "clemens says he won't attend if he isn't wearing a yankees cap" her reply was that's fine but he'll still go in a red sox cap.

1917
08-10-2004, 04:49 PM
2-The biggest fallacy with baseball fans is that players get to choose their hats upon induction into the hall of fame. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! The hall of fame was a committee that votes on the hat to be worn. When we think of fisk we think of the sox but when the nation thinks of fisk, it's the 75 series. I know this for a fact because when scammy was caught with cork my friend drove the chairwoman of the board of the hall of fame and asked her that question and that was her reply. his next question was "clemens says he won't attend if he isn't wearing a yankees cap" her reply was that's fine but he'll still go in a red sox cap.[/QUOTE]
This is true.... EXCEPT IN FISK CASE!!!! THEY DID GIVE HIM THE CHOICE BECAUSE HE PLAYED JUST ABOUT AN EVEN AMOUNT OF YEARS WITH EACH TEAM SO THEY LET HIM CHOOSE!!!! Clemens played the majority of his time with Boston...he only played 3 years (?) with the Yanks and over 10 with Boston...

steff
08-10-2004, 05:25 PM
1-Fisk will never come back due to a stupid stipulation that the red sox have. If you take a tour of fenway this is the first part of the tour. there is a room with retired numbers and effective with Pudge's retirement, they instituted a rule that in order to retire your number you have to be affiliated with Red Sox. Fisk is a special consultant. If at anytime you are not affiliated with the red sox (ie become a coach of the white sox) they will remove your number from the retired numbers.
I highly doubt this is true.. but it's too silly not to ask him about.


And #2.. that's a lie. Carlton chose to wear a Boston cap. That from the horses mouth.

TornLabrum
08-10-2004, 06:11 PM
I highly doubt this is true.. but it's too silly not to ask him about.


And #2.. that's a lie. Carlton chose to wear a Boston cap. That from the horses mouth.You are correct on Point #2. The HOF didn't take the decision away from the players until after Fisk was inducted, mainly because of the deals that players about ready to retire made with the last teams they signed with that they would wear that cap in the HOF.

I know Wade Boggs and some others had that deal.

BainesHOF
08-10-2004, 06:22 PM
From Donn Pall's interview with WSI:

"As far as Pudge having lost it, I donít agree with that at all. He still worked very hard but the problem was he was only playing maybe once a week and when you are at that age, not playing causes you to lose your skills quickly. He and Gene (Lamont), didnít get along at all and it started one day when Pudge got thrown out for arguing balls and strikes with an ump. He must have been out there two or three minutes and during that entire time, Gene never came out of the dugout! I mean managers always come out to defend their players and Gene didnít do that. I lost some respect for him that day and Iím sure the other guys did as well."
Exactly.

I knew at the time Lamont was hanging Fisk out to dry by not playing him for long stretches to set him up to fail. There is no doubt in my mind Fisk could still contribute if Lamont continued to play him steadily. Instead, Lamont chose to embarrassment Fisk out of the game.

jabrch
08-10-2004, 06:36 PM
Today, players have no choice. But when Fisk made the HOF, it was not that way. Carlton chose to wear a Red Sox hat. And I can't blame him after how he was treated.

DumpJerry
08-10-2004, 07:03 PM
When Pudge was released by JR, he had actually played more games for us than the BoSox. The HOF would have put him in a WSox hat, but he asked for the BoSox hat for reasons which may or may not be obvious to us.

As to how he was treated by WSox management, this is another example of the crimes against humanity JR has committed since taking over in 1980. Every day we struggle to sign quality players, play consistent quality ball I think about what it would have been like if DeBartolo had been allowed to buy the team from Veeck. Debartolo is probably one of the best sports owners ever. He took care of his players like none other. It was not just money, but showing the players he cared about them, acknowledging personal situation like a death in the family or other things that showed he was paying attention. This is how the 49's became such a strong team in the 80's with a payroll that was below what those guys could have been paid. The Niner's players had a strong sense of loyalty to DeBartolo to point that they chose to remain with him rather than go to another team for more money. This was the real reason why the owners blocked the sale of the Sox to DeBartolo, they did not want a team in the Midwest being the league powerhouse (the Flubs were considered a "national" team because of WGN coverage and, well, they were the Lovable Losers).

If only DeBartolo could have been given the team instead of the schmuck we're stuck with...........:angry: :mad: :angry: :mad: :angry: :mad: :angry: :angry: :mad: :mad:

Parrothead
08-10-2004, 07:52 PM
Fisk should have gone into the hall wearing a "B" hat. That is where he established himself and where is most known.

Daver
08-10-2004, 08:01 PM
When Pudge was released by JR, he had actually played more games for us than the BoSox. The HOF would have put him in a WSox hat, but he asked for the BoSox hat for reasons which may or may not be obvious to us.

As to how he was treated by WSox management, this is another example of the crimes against humanity JR has committed since taking over in 1980. Every day we struggle to sign quality players, play consistent quality ball I think about what it would have been like if DeBartolo had been allowed to buy the team from Veeck. Debartolo is probably one of the best sports owners ever. He took care of his players like none other. It was not just money, but showing the players he cared about them, acknowledging personal situation like a death in the family or other things that showed he was paying attention. This is how the 49's became such a strong team in the 80's with a payroll that was below what those guys could have been paid. The Niner's players had a strong sense of loyalty to DeBartolo to point that they chose to remain with him rather than go to another team for more money. This was the real reason why the owners blocked the sale of the Sox to DeBartolo, they did not want a team in the Midwest being the league powerhouse (the Flubs were considered a "national" team because of WGN coverage and, well, they were the Lovable Losers).

If only DeBartolo could have been given the team instead of the schmuck we're stuck with...........:angry: :mad: :angry: :mad: :angry: :mad: :angry: :angry: :mad: :mad:
You have your DeBartolo's confused.

Eddie Sr. tried to buy the Sox, Eddie Jr. owned the Forty Niners.

The NFL at the time had no problem with allowing someone with known gambling and organized crime affiliations own a franchise.

DumpJerry
08-10-2004, 08:14 PM
You have your DeBartolo's confused.

Eddie Sr. tried to buy the Sox, Eddie Jr. owned the Forty Niners.

The NFL at the time had no problem with allowing someone with known gambling and organized crime affiliations own a franchise.
The NFL did background checks of potential owners that were more stringent than national security checks. The response, of course, can be DeBartolo's recent problems with being arrested for such ties, but in 1980, they were not uncovered apparently.....

he_gone_89
08-10-2004, 08:47 PM
You are correct on Point #2. The HOF didn't take the decision away from the players until after Fisk was inducted, mainly because of the deals that players about ready to retire made with the last teams they signed with that they would wear that cap in the HOF.

I know Wade Boggs and some others had that deal.
so,wade boggs is in the HOF as a Tampa bay Devil Ray??? man,thats crazy

Daver
08-10-2004, 08:56 PM
The NFL did background checks of potential owners that were more stringent than national security checks. The response, of course, can be DeBartolo's recent problems with being arrested for such ties, but in 1980, they were not uncovered apparently.....
They do that now, when DeBartolo bought the Niners he was welcomed with open arms because he had what Paul Taglibue needed at the time, cash in abundance, and an open mind for what Taglibue was about to do to the league.

It was shortly after this that Taglibue solidified the NFL, he introduced 100% shared revenue, and prepared for the battle to break the players union, which he also accomplished.

flo-B-flo
08-10-2004, 10:45 PM
From Donn Pall's interview with WSI:

ML: In June the Sox made what turned out to be a major public relations disaster when they released Fisk while the Sox were in Cleveland. Compounding the problem was that they didnít even hold a press conference to announce it, they sent faxes to the local media. Tell me what happened that day and how Carlton reacted to it and for that matter what the feeling was a few days earlier on "Carlton Fisk Night" at Comiskey Park after he broke the record for games caught..

DP: "When we had that night for him I turned out to be the winning pitcher when we beat the Rangers in extra innings. I got Carlton to sign the game ball from that night. Bo Jackson went around asking guys if theyíd donate five hundred dollars each and we surprised Pudge by getting him a motorcycle which Bo drove to home plate during the ceremonies. After the game the guys had a big party right in the clubhouse. It was great! Later that evening guys went out on the field and started running around and sliding into the bases just like you saw in "Bull Durham." The party went so long into the night that a lot of the guys stayed and slept in the clubhouse because we had an afternoon game the next day! That night is something I wonít forget."

"As far as Pudge having lost it, I donít agree with that at all. He still worked very hard but the problem was he was only playing maybe once a week and when you are at that age, not playing causes you to lose your skills quickly. He and Gene (Lamont), didnít get along at all and it started one day when Pudge got thrown out for arguing balls and strikes with an ump. He must have been out there two or three minutes and during that entire time, Gene never came out of the dugout! I mean managers always come out to defend their players and Gene didnít do that. I lost some respect for him that day and Iím sure the other guys did as well."

"We had heard rumblings that something could be happening but it was a poor decision on the part of the Sox to wait until we were in Cleveland before doing something. I mean why have Pudge get on the plane if youíre going to release him? That morning Ron Schueler called him and told him the Sox let him go. That night weíre at the game and Pudge is sitting in the stands yelling at us! He was saying stuff like "you guys suck!" and everybody got a big laugh out of it."

"I talked to Pudge and he told me he was going to go way out in center field for the rest of the game. I asked him why and he said he was going to sit next to the guy who used to beat on that drum! Pudge said Ďevery time Iíve come in here that guy was beating his drum and it drove me nuts, so tonight Iím going to sit next to him,í and he did. He bought the guy a few beers and had a great time."

ML: In another incredible public relations blunder you and Fisk were turned away by security guards before Game #1 of the ALCS. I guess you just wanted to say Ďhelloí to the guys didnít you?

DP: "We got to the game early and yes we tried to get in the clubhouse. The security guards who were there, they were the regular guys that had been there all season. When we tried to go in for a moment, the guard said that major league baseball ordered that we couldnít come in. I thought he was pretty embarrassed about it because he kept kind of shifting his weight from one foot to another and looking down. He said that he felt really bad about it. I thought it was ridiculous. I mean we werenít agents or a relative of a player, we were players. I could understand about me but how could you not allow Fisk, the guy who was the captain of the team, to come in for a minute and wish everybody luck?"

"Pudge left the park and I followed him into the parking lot for awhile. I had tickets to the game so I could get back in but Carlton didnít have any. He was furious and I think he never forgot about it. I mean come on, somebody couldnít have invited him up into a luxury box or get him a seat?"
---------------------

To this day many feel the decision to bar Fisk from the clubhouse was at the direction of the Sox owner and not MLB. Those who have that slant also include many members of the media.

Lip Thanks Lip. I read this before. Just another pathetic display from the chairman. We have been held hostage by this guy for a long time. He has made several MAJOR mistakes during his tenure and, only spins his accomplishments. I'm really sick of defending the franchise to friends all over the country because of Riensdorks gaffes. Please sell and go back to Brooklyn.:(:

flo-B-flo
08-10-2004, 10:53 PM
They do that now, when DeBartolo bought the Niners he was welcomed with open arms because he had what Paul Taglibue needed at the time, cash in abundance, and an open mind for what Taglibue was about to do to the league.

It was shortly after this that Taglibue solidified the NFL, he introduced 100% shared revenue, and prepared for the battle to break the players union, which he also accomplished. As I recall, didn't Steinfuher put up a big stink about DeBartolo owning the Sox? Oh what could have been!:whiner: :(:

Lip Man 1
08-10-2004, 11:25 PM
It was Bowie Kuhn.

Lip

Brian26
08-10-2004, 11:48 PM
2-The biggest fallacy with baseball fans is that players get to choose their hats upon induction into the hall of fame. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! The hall of fame was a committee that votes on the hat to be worn. When we think of fisk we think of the sox but when the nation thinks of fisk, it's the 75 series. I know this for a fact because when scammy was caught with cork my friend drove the chairwoman of the board of the hall of fame and asked her that question and that was her reply. his next question was "clemens says he won't attend if he isn't wearing a yankees cap" her reply was that's fine but he'll still go in a red sox cap.
This came up when Wade Boggs threatened to wear a Tampa Bay Devil Rays hat for his induction. I think the players still get to choose, but the HOF committee has final say.

Fenway
08-10-2004, 11:57 PM
Who knows the real story

Fisk still lives in Chicagoland ( says he LOVES area )

He made his peace with Boston

Bottom line we both had a great player

( and he now lives in Chicagoland )

#27 forever

Corkinator
08-11-2004, 12:00 AM
As I recall, the official reasons DeBartolo was rejected were:

1) He lived in Ohio and baseball wanted "local" ownership.

2) Baseball was concerned that he owned interests in racetracks. We probably could have signed Pete Rose as a FA!:redneck

I also recall that there was no guarentee Debartolo wouldn't relocate the team. Could be wrong on that though.

TornLabrum
08-11-2004, 12:57 AM
Who knows the real story

Fisk still lives in Chicagoland ( says he LOVES area )

He made his peace with Boston

Bottom line we both had a great player

( and he now lives in Chicagoland )

#27 forever
Of course you mean #72! :)

StillMissOzzie
08-11-2004, 01:19 AM
As I recall, the official reasons DeBartolo was rejected were:

1) He lived in Ohio and baseball wanted "local" ownership.

2) Baseball was concerned that he owned interests in racetracks. We probably could have signed Pete Rose as a FA!:redneck

I also recall that there was no guarentee Debartolo wouldn't relocate the team. Could be wrong on that though.
Ironic that you mention DeBartolo moving the team, you being from Tampa and all. That's where JR was heading if he didn't get Comiskey II (now USCF) built. And yes, the popular wisdom around here was that DeBartolo was gonna move the Sox to...New Orleans. At least we do have ONE thing to thank JR for.

SMO

Lip Man 1
08-11-2004, 01:52 AM
DeBartolo guaranteed MLB that he would move his offices to Chicago and be on hand at least half of the time.

At the same time MLB was questioning his racing holdings they conveniently looked the other way with Steinbrenner's ownership of Tampa Bay Downs and the Galbreath family in Pittsburgh's ownership of racing stables.

Simply put they didn't want him in the club and found a way to torpedo it.

Lip

steff
08-11-2004, 08:37 AM
This came up when Wade Boggs threatened to wear a Tampa Bay Devil Rays hat for his induction. I think the players still get to choose, but the HOF committee has final say.

Not when Carlton was inducted. HE had final say.

inta
08-11-2004, 10:10 AM
man reading all of this stuff makes me re-think why i'm even a sox fan in the first place.

Fisk is my favorite player of all time.
i used to watch the NBC saturday game of the week every week just so see the highlight footage of him waving his HR fair...
i still have 3 "doubles" of his 1982 TOPPS trading sticker pasted on my old bed headboard at my parents house...
hell i use "72" as a number in all my online passwords and PIN numbers...

For management to treat him like that just infuriates me and makes me think bad things about hawk's lifespan...
:angry:
Hopefully he does come back one day and all will be right in the world...
we sure could use him to right the sox' sinking ship this year...

ode to veeck
08-11-2004, 10:35 AM
The NFL at the time had no problem with allowing someone with known gambling and organized crime affiliations own a franchise.Whereas at the time, DeBartolo Sr's gambling and "affiliations" were used to void his purchase of the Sox .

.. now we have a used car dealer as the commissioner

... and baseball's leadership is about two baby steps above Don King and boxing

The Sox deal may have been a reason for the perceived "cleaner' Eddie Jr. as buyer of the Forty-Whiners

Uncle_Patrick
08-11-2004, 10:47 AM
This came up when Wade Boggs threatened to wear a Tampa Bay Devil Rays hat for his induction. I think the players still get to choose, but the HOF committee has final say.
I don't think that players get the choice anymore at all, and its because of the Wade Boggs thing. I recall hearing about this on sports radio regarding Clemens. When Fisk went into the Hall, players chose the hat. Boggs came along and decided he was going to wear his D-Rays hat because, I believe, of some grudge against the Red Sox organization. The HOF committee decided to take the choice away from the players since then. The players can say which one they want, but the HOF committee makes the choice. This was coming up with Clemens 'cause he wanted to go in as a Yankee, and I believe that the HOF wanted him to go in with a Boston hat. Of course, Clemens can make a legitimate case as to why he should go in as a Yankee, as opposed to Boggs wanting to go in as a Devil Ray. All it takes is for one person to ruin it for everybody...

idseer
08-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Exactly.

I knew at the time Lamont was hanging Fisk out to dry by not playing him for long stretches to set him up to fail. There is no doubt in my mind Fisk could still contribute if Lamont continued to play him steadily. Instead, Lamont chose to embarrassment Fisk out of the game.
which brings me to the next question. WHY?

why did lemont not like fisk?
why did jr not like fisk?

obviously there is an answer to this somewhere. was fisk the kind of guy that hated authority? was he a jerk to the muckedymucks?
perhaps fisk wasn't as innocent in all this as we're all led to believe?

Uncle_Patrick
08-11-2004, 11:23 AM
which brings me to the next question. WHY?

why did lemont not like fisk?
why did jr not like fisk?

obviously there is an answer to this somewhere. was fisk the kind of guy that hated authority? was he a jerk to the muckedymucks?
perhaps fisk wasn't as innocent in all this as we're all led to believe?
Fisk had a lot of problems with the Red Sox ownership while he played for Boston, too. I loved Fisk as a player, he was may favorite growing up, and he's still my favorite White Sox player ever. Still, he has a reputation as being pretty hard to get along with. The impression I get is that part of the problem was as his career was winding down, Fisk didn't want to let go, to the point where it was hurting the team. I saw some show about him on ESPN Classic a while ago which stated pretty much the same thing. Fisk had also made some comments about JR, and on that program Eddie Einhorn stated that JR takes a lot of criticism very personally, resulting in the animosity between the two. Still, its no excuse for the way they released him at the end of his career.

Lip Man 1
08-11-2004, 11:49 AM
In the TV documentary 'Frontline: The Trouble With Baseball' (I have a copy on tape) which aired in April 1993, both Fisk AND Uncle Jerry appear on camera in separate interviews and Fisk angerly denounces Jerry over his part in the 'collusion' tactics of the mid 80's.

Fisk was a free agent and got only one offer for about the same money from the Yankees. Fisk said Jerry 'wanted me to wither and die as well as my family.'

Jerry for his part talked about Fisk being 'overpaid the one year he was injured' and that was fine because Reinsdorf said Fisk deserved to be overpaid 'one' year, but 'not two.'

It really is an excellent tape and shows how ten years after the labor impasse not much has really changed in baseball.

Lip