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Gimm
08-10-2004, 11:22 AM
Sounds like Ozzie is going to file a complaint with MLB b/c of the 'unprofessional' behavior shown by WendelstedtMaybe leaving Munoz in for 11 ER and completely destroying his confidence is Ozzie knowing what he is doing.

Maybe sending 3 slow-footed/lousy-jumping runners to be gunned down one by one by Brandon Inge is just ONWHID.

Maybe letting Politte pitch in the 2nd inning of work and/or face tough left-handers, neither of which he can do, time and time again is ONWHID.

Maybe Uribe, Crede and Valentin not making a single adjustment worth a damn since the beginning of their horrific July slumps is an indication that Ozzie, unlike Manuel, can motivate and teach with the best of them, and is in fact NWHID.

Maybe Garland slightly regressing after we were promised a break-out season from him free of negative Manuelian influence...is ONWHID

Maybe allowing Maggs to dictate to him when he should play RF, something that is directly responsible for his out-for-season status and, by extension, for Sox offense/season going into the crapper...is too ONWHID

Maybe him using the wrong hand to signal to the pen not once but TWICE in one week, which almost led to a loss in Cle when Politte was forced to pitch to consecutive tough lefties and was lucky Sizemore's missle with runners on base was hit right AT a CF....well that too is just ONWHID.

Maybe the team that cannot bunt bunting all the time, giving away outs and games is just ONWHID.

Maybe sticking with Koch for 2+ months and allowing him to blow a few momentum-crushing games (Oakland and Seattle in particular) when Shingo was already lights out is ONWHID?

Maybe him failing to relax/motivate (Spanish-speaking) Diaz who then proceeds to put up a 10.00 ERA and help kill the season....is Ozzie's brilliant and of course knowing way at work.

Maybe him not being able to call the pitches and being forced to over-rely on the useless Sandy.....is ONWHID

Maybe Esteban Loaiza, our ace, being out of shape/complacent as his velocity drops is ONWHID.

Maybe this team once again failing against first-time pitchers as though they've never seen footage or read scouting reports....is ONWHID.

Maybe this team swinging for the fences in a manner that contradicts everything Ozzie spoke passionately about in the off-season....is ONWHID.

Maybe Ozzie continually going to Jackson, aka Mr. High ERA aka Mr. Inherited Runner Invariably Scores......is ONWHID.

Maybe Ozzie betraying his team and fans and not retailiating against Hunter after he needlessly tackled our out-of-position catcher, then hopped and skipped all the way to the dug-out with a GIANT smile on his face, but not before triumphantly stomping on the home plate and staring the layed-out Burke down WWF-style......a moment which defined this season and precipitated the Collapse from which this team will NOT recover.......is ONWHID.

Etc. Etc. Etc.


Honeymoon is over. It was over in May.


.........

MushMouth
08-10-2004, 11:24 AM
Maybe leaving Munoz in for 11 ER and completely destroying his confidence is Ozzie knowing what he is doing.
Maybe sending 3 slow-footed/lousy-jumping runners to be gunned down one by one by Brandon Inge is just ONWHID.

Maybe letting Politte pitch in the 2nd inning of work and/or face tough left-handers, neither of which he can do, is ONWHID.

Maybe Uribe, Crede and Valentin not making a single adjustment worth a damn since the beginning of their horrific July slumps is an indication that Ozzie, unlike Manuel, can motivate and teach with the best of them, and is in fact ONWHID.

Maybe allowing Maggs to dictate to him when he should play RF, something that is directly responsible for his out-for-season status and, by extension, for Sox offense/season going into the crapper...is too ONWHID

Maybe him using the wrong hand to signal to the pen not once but TWICE in one week, which almost lost to a loss in Cle when Politte was forced to pitch to consecutive lefties and was lucky Sizemore's missle with runners on base was hit right AT a CF....well that too is just ONWHID.

Maybe the team that cannot bunt bunting all the time and giving away outs and games is just ONWHID.

Maybe sticking with Koch for 2+ months and allowing him to blow a few momentum-crushing games (Oakland and Seattle in particular) when Shingo was already lights out is ONWHID?

Maybe him failing to relax/motivate (Spanish-speaking) Diaz who then proceeds to put up a 10.00 ERA and help kill the season....is Ozzie's brilliant and of course knowing way at work.

Maybe Esteban Loaiza, our ace, being out of shape/complacent as his velocity drops is ONWHID.

Maybe this team once again failing against first-time pitchers as though they've never seen footage or read scouting reports....is ONWHID.

Maybe this team swinging for the fences in a manner that contradicts everything Ozzie spoke passionately about in the off-season....is ONWHID.

Maybe Ozzie continually going to Jackson, aka Mr. High ERA aka Mr. Inherited Runner Invariably Scores......is ONWHID.

Maybe Ozzie betraying his team and fans and not retailiating against Hunter after he needlessly tackled your out-of-position catcher, then hopped and skipped all the way to the dug-out with a GIANT smile on his face, but not before triumphantly stomping on the home plate and staring the layed-out Burke down WWF-style......a moment which defined this season and precipitated the Collapse from which this team will NOT recover.......is ONWHID.

Etc. Etc. Etc.



Honeymoon is over. It was over in May.

You're right, Ozzie doesn't know anything about baseball. In fact, I nominate you as a our new manager, since you have all the answers.

voodoochile
08-10-2004, 11:24 AM
Just curious... Why the new thread?:?:

Gimm
08-10-2004, 11:26 AM
Just curious... Why the new thread?:?:Because it's more of an overview of The Great Oz managing, and has very little to do with Carlos Lee CS/Wendelstedt incident.

It should be a separate thread.

Jjav829
08-10-2004, 11:27 AM
You do realize it should be OKWHID, not ONWHID?

voodoochile
08-10-2004, 11:28 AM
Because it's more of an overview of The Great Oz managing, and has very little to do with Carlos Lee CS/Wendelstedt incident.

It should be a separate thread.
Okay, I fixed the title so people will know what you are getting at...

Gimm
08-10-2004, 11:31 AM
You do realize it should be OKWHID, not ONWHID?
I was playing it by ear. :D:

mcfish
08-10-2004, 11:37 AM
Maybe sticking with Koch for 2+ months and allowing him to blow a few momentum-crushing games (Oakland and Seattle in particular) when Shingo was already lights out is ONWHID?

Maybe him failing to relax/motivate (Spanish-speaking) Diaz who then proceeds to put up a 10.00 ERA and help kill the season....is Ozzie's brilliant and of course knowing way at work.
While I agree that those were 2 momentum-crushing games, they were the only 2 that Koch blew for us. When he left he had 3 blown saves, and he got the win in the other one.

The season was killed long before Diaz's start yesterday.

sendimjoey
08-10-2004, 11:40 AM
It's this thread that is unprofessional. If I knew how to do it, I'd bring out the "this thread sucks" guy. I think most of the points you raised have involved players and their lack of ability -- a manager can only work with the players he is given. I agree with you about the bunting and the running -- this team isn't built to play that way. Overall, I think Guillen has done a good job this year, very solid.

Rocky Soprano
08-10-2004, 11:42 AM
Just for you sendimjoey:


:threadsucks


When you click on reply, under the smilies, click on the red "more" link. Then just find the pic and click on it and thats it.

Viva Magglio
08-10-2004, 11:43 AM
It's this thread that is unprofessional. If I knew how to do it, I'd bring out the "this thread sucks" guy. I think most of the points you raised have involved players and their lack of ability -- a manager can only work with the players he is given. I agree with you about the bunting and the running -- this team isn't built to play that way. Overall, I think Guillen has done a good job this year, very solid.
Here you go:

:threadsucks

ZachAL
08-10-2004, 11:46 AM
You're right, Ozzie doesn't know anything about baseball. In fact, I nominate you as a our new manager, since you have all the answers.This is such a low argument to go to MushMouth, in your words noone can criticize a coach or manager or else. Don't stoop to this level, you dont prove anything. The fact of the matter is he brings up some really good points, and I find it hard to believe you dont agree with him on at least some of them. MushMouth looking at your response i take it that you never criticize ozzie or anyother coach. enough of the facetiousness. In fact MushMouth I looked at the history of all your posts and YOU as well ciritcize ozzie and the team, so I nominate you to be the new manager. I enjoyed reading Gimm's post though he brought up some valid points although i as well dont agree with all of them.

Gimm
08-10-2004, 11:52 AM
While I agree that those were 2 momentum-crushing games, they were the only 2 that Koch blew for us. When he left he had 3 blown saves, and he got the win in the other one.

The season was killed long before Diaz's start yesterday.Koch cost us at least 3 games in the standings (and would have cost 5 if it weren't for a couple of brilliant plays made behind him after he did his best to blow a 2- and 3- run lead respectively), to say noting of once again demoralizing the team and stopping the winning momentum dead in its tracks, something that only resulted in more losses. Unless you're his fan, I suggest you stop debating this issue - especially given Ozzie's other option of Shingo, the guy had an ERA almost 3 times lower back then!

That's why I said "HELPED kill" the season. Every miserable failure is just another axe chop at the formerly mighty oak that is our season. If Diaz is merely bad and not HORRIBLE, Sox win last night's game and move to within 4 games of Minnesota in the loss column.

TornLabrum
08-10-2004, 12:01 PM
Koch cost us at least 3 games in the standings (and would have cost 5 if it weren't for a couple of brilliant plays made behind him after he did his best to blow a 2- and 3- run lead respectively), to say noting of once again demoralizing the team and stopping the winning momentum dead in its tracks, something that only resulted in more losses. Unless you're his fan, I suggest you stop debating this issue - especially given Ozzie's other option of Shingo, the guy had an ERA almost 3 times lower back then!

That's why I said "HELPED kill" the season. Every miserable failure is just another axe chop at the formerly mighty oak that is our season. If Diaz is merely bad and not HORRIBLE, Sox win last night's game and move to within 4 games of Minnesota in the loss column.Gee, do you think the biggest blow that felled the tree just might be the fact that we lost our two best hitters to injury? I agree:

:threadsucks

MushMouth
08-10-2004, 12:08 PM
This is such a low argument to go to MushMouth, in your words noone can criticize a coach or manager or else. Don't stoop to this level, you dont prove anything. The fact of the matter is he brings up some really good points, and I find it hard to believe you dont agree with him on at least some of them. MushMouth looking at your response i take it that you never criticize ozzie or anyother coach. enough of the facetiousness. In fact MushMouth I looked at the history of all your posts and YOU as well ciritcize ozzie and the team, so I nominate you to be the new manager. I enjoyed reading Gimm's post though he brought up some valid points although i as well dont agree with all of them.
You can criticize the manager, you can criticize the players, but its absurd to blame each and every mistake this year on Ozzie. Basically, he's implying Ozzie isn't fit to manage on the big league level and that's a pretty ridiculous argument. Ozzie has done a fine job with all that has gone on with the Sox imo. Defending Wendlestat's "You don't know what you're doing" is NOT a valid argument, its cheap and baseless.

That said, I've never found a team in any sport and on any level with less redeeming qualities than this '04 Sox team so I'm not defending them, just Oz.

mcfish
08-10-2004, 12:15 PM
Koch cost us at least 3 games in the standings (and would have cost 5 if it weren't for a couple of brilliant plays made behind him after he did his best to blow a 2- and 3- run lead respectively), to say noting of once again demoralizing the team and stopping the winning momentum dead in its tracks, something that only resulted in more losses. Unless you're his fan, I suggest you stop debating this issue - especially given Ozzie's other option of Shingo, the guy had an ERA almost 3 times lower back then!Show me the three games we would have made up in the standings. Here, I'll do it for you:
DATE GAME W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO NP-S GO-AO
APR 05 @KCA 0 0 27.00 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.1 1 1 1 0 0 1 10-7 0-0 L 7-9
APR 07 @KCA 0 0 6.75 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 22-12 1-2 W 4-3
APR 10 @NYA 0 0 3.86 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 20-14 2-1 W 7-3
APR 13 KCA 0 0 2.70 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 2 23-18 1-1 W 12-5
APR 14 KCA 0 0 11.25 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.2 4 4 4 2 1 0 31-20 1-1 W 10-9
APR 16 @TBA 0 0 9.00 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 1 7-6 1-1 L 0-3
APR 20 NYA 0 0 7.11 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.1 1 0 0 0 0 1 18-13 1-2 L 8-11
APR 23 TBA 1 0 6.14 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 12-9 0-3 W 3-2
APR 27 CLE 0 0 5.40 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 2 2 24-13 1-0 L 7-11
APR 29 TOR 0 0 4.82 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15-9 1-1 W 6-4
MAY 01 TOR 0 0 4.35 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 1 12-8 1-1 L 6-10
MAY 02 TOR 0 0 3.97 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 2 25-19 1-0 W 3-2
MAY 03 @BAL 0 0 5.11 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 2 2 0 3 2 37-21 1-0 W 5-4
MAY 05 @BAL 0 0 5.40 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 1 1 0 2 0 22-10 2-1 W 6-5
MAY 13 BAL 0 0 5.02 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 1 1 20-12 1-1 W 6-5
MAY 17 @CLE 0 0 4.70 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 2 0 0 0 0 1 12-10 2-0 L 2-7
MAY 18 @CLE 0 0 4.41 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 3 13-9 0-0 W 4-2
MAY 23 @MIN 0 0 4.67 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 1 1 1 0 1 17-14 1-1 W 17-7
MAY 27 TEX 0 0 4.42 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 2 17-11 1-0 W 9-0
MAY 30 ANA 0 0 4.19 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 2 10-8 0-1 W 11-2
JUN 02 @OAK 0 0 4.43 1 0 0 0 0 1 1.0 2 1 1 0 1 0 28-15 1-2 L 2-3
JUN 04 @SEA 0 0 4.22 1 0 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 15-11 2-1 W 4-2
JUN 06 @SEA 0 1 5.40 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.1 3 3 3 0 3 0 30-13 1-0 L 4-5
JUN 09 PHI 0 0 5.40 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.2 2 1 1 0 3 2 42-22 1-2 L 10-13
24 Appearances
Sox 15-9 when Koch pitches
Apr 05 - Marte blows it, but Koch pitches better and maybe he saves it
Apr 16 - No offense - Wright only gives up 3. Koch 3 up 3 down
Apr 20 - Buerhle blow up day. Koch goes 1.1 innings, facing 5 and giving up 1 hit. No runs
Apr 27 - Scary outing - 1 HBP, a wild pitch and 2 walks. No one scores though and Adkins loses game, giving up 4 in the 10th.
May 01 - Koch 3 up 3 down inning. Wright lost this one.
May 17 - Diaz, on short rest, gives up 6 early, and offense never comes back. Koch - K, 2 singles and a double play ball to get out of the inning.
Jun 02 - Koch blows a save, no doubt, but Adkins loses the game in the 10th.
Jun 06 - Koch's worst outing by far, the reason he got traded, and his only loss for the Sox this year.
Jun 09 - Garland gave up 10 runs. Only close because the offense scored 4 in bottom of 9th. Koch pitched 1.2 innings, allowing 2 inherited runners to score and 1 more of his own.
-------------------------
June 6 was definitely Billy's fault.
June 2 was mostly Billy's fault; Adkins got the loss, but he blew a save before that.
June 9 was pretty much a lost cause, but he did allow 3 runners to score when he was in (2 charged to Adkins) and we only lost by 3 because of 4 runs in the bottom of the ninth.
April 5 was the first game of the year - Koch started the downslide, but Marte lost the game.
-------------------------
Billy's presense only caused at most 4 losses this year and I would argue really only 2 (June 2 and 6). What do those 2 games give us? We're 4 down without a prayer instead of 6 down without a prayer?

I don't know why, but I hate seeing people blame the season on Koch when he really had nothing to do with it. He was gone long before this team decided that it didn't know how to win ball games.

Tekijawa
08-10-2004, 12:16 PM
You do realize it should be OKWHID, not ONWHID?I think he knows what he is doing!

bennyw41
08-10-2004, 12:18 PM
I don't think anyone is expecting that Ozzie was supposed to be perfect. Most of his mistakes this year are new manager mistakes. I think you're crazy Gimm.

Gimm
08-10-2004, 12:34 PM
I don't know why, but I hate seeing people blame the season on Koch when he really had nothing to do with it. He was gone long before this team decided that it didn't know how to win ball games.Unreal.

The guy blows 4 games (and, if it weren't for a couple of brilliant defensive stops by Juan and Aaron, it would have easily been 6) in less than 2 months, and prevents the Sox from getting off to ANY kind of a winning streak.....and yet his apologists are still opening their traps with the inane "give him a break, man".

Here's a ****ing clue: a terrible player costs games, in more than one way. Especially when the rest of the team is sorta underachiving, a couple of terrible players have the potential to KILL the season - just ask the Triumverate of Doom (Wright-Koch-White) who singlehandedly sabotaged the team in every way in 1st half of 2003, thereby essentially killing our playoff hopes - the team had to expend too much energy overcoming the gigantic 1st half deficit in the face of a very tough 2nd half schedule, they simply had nothing left by the time they left NY in early September.

You have to look at the bigger picture to see how Koch, Alomar, Timo, Jackson, Cotts, Borchard, Diaz can have a devastating effect on a ballclub.

Oh and...stop hijacking the thread. Ozzie, remember?

Gimm
08-10-2004, 12:37 PM
Gee, do you think the biggest blow that felled the tree just might be the fact that we lost our two best hitters to injury? I agree:
:rolleyes:

mcfish
08-10-2004, 12:47 PM
Unreal.

The guy blows 4 games (and, if it weren't for a couple of brilliant defensive stops by Juan and Aaron, it would have easily been 6) in less than 2 months, and prevents the Sox from getting off to ANY kind of a winning streak.....and yet his apologists are still opening their traps with the inane "give him a break, man".

Here's a ****ing clue: a terrible player costs games, in more than one way. Especially when the rest of the team is sorta underachiving, a couple of terrible players have the potential to KILL the season - just ask the Triumverate of Doom (Wright-Koch-White) who singlehandedly sabotaged the team in every way in 1st half of 2003, thereby essentially killing our playoff hopes - the team had to expend too much energy overcoming the gigantic 1st half deficit in the face of a very tough 2nd half schedule, they simply had nothing left by the time they left NY in early September.

You have to look at the bigger picture to see how Koch, Alomar, Timo, Jackson, Cotts, Borchard, Diaz can have a devastating effect on a ballclub.

Oh and...stop hijacking the thread. Ozzie, remember?
Ok, Ozzie did nothing wrong by bringing in Koch until there was a reason not to. He was our closer and shouldn't have lost the job for giving all of us heart attacks. He did lose the job when he lost 2 games. I'm not saying give Koch a break - I was absolutely overjoyed the day the trade was announced to get him the hell out of here. But I also don't think it's fair to blame the season on a guy who was out of here by the second week in June. Yeah, he really blew a big winning streak on our road trip to Oakland and Seattle. We had lost the day before both of those games.

If you really want Ozzie talk - Ozzie's done a great job with what he has been given. He's a first year manager that made this team play well until mid July when it really wasn't good enough to go that far. I don't think we need to pick apart every single mistake that he's made on the year thusfar as if there's a chance that we would be winning had they not been made. What about all the good calls Ozzie's made? I'm betting there are at least 10.

voodoochile
08-10-2004, 12:50 PM
Ok, Ozzie did nothing wrong by bringing in Koch until there was a reason not to. He was our closer and shouldn't have lost the job for giving all of us heart attacks. He did lose the job when he lost 2 games. I'm not saying give Koch a break - I was absolutely overjoyed the day the trade was announced to get him the hell out of here. But I also don't think it's fair to blame the season on a guy who was out of here by the second week in June. Yeah, he really blew a big winning streak on our road trip to Oakland and Seattle. We had lost the day before both of those games.

If you really want Ozzie talk - Ozzie's done a great job with what he has been given. He's a first year manager that made this team play well until mid July when it really wasn't good enough to go that far. I don't think we need to pick apart every single mistake that he's made on the year thusfar as if there's a chance that we would be winning had they not been made. What about all the good calls Ozzie's made? I'm betting there are at least 10.
The Sox actually made it back to first after Koch got traded and then fell apart when both Frank and Maggs went down for an extended period and the Twinkies got healthy and made a statement.

ZachAL
08-10-2004, 01:22 PM
I don't think anyone is expecting that Ozzie was supposed to be perfect. Most of his mistakes this year are new manager mistakes.
I agree with you, I dont expect him to be perfect but I also dont expect us to be 6 games back and I DEFINATELY dont expect for him to let Torii Hunter own us and shove us around, but he did.
Its obvious when you see these players slouching over when they walk out on the field after introductions instead of running, amongst other things they are not fired up. I turn on the radio after everygame to listen to Ozzie's press conferance hoping hes gonna be pissed and show some attitude and fire, but he just depressingly mumbles his way through it everyday. Yes, we did lose maggs and Frank but we could still have some fight and emotion left in us, its the least they could do.

thepaulbowski
08-10-2004, 01:37 PM
Gee, do you think the biggest blow that felled the tree just might be the fact that we lost our two best hitters to injury?

No, that couldn't be the reason. It has to be somebody's fault doesn't it? Blame Ozzie, Blame KW, somebody has to pay.

thepaulbowski
08-10-2004, 01:44 PM
Unreal.

The guy blows 4 games (and, if it weren't for a couple of brilliant defensive stops by Juan and Aaron, it would have easily been 6) in less than 2 months, and prevents the Sox from getting off to ANY kind of a winning streak.....and yet his apologists are still opening their traps with the inane "give him a break, man".

Here's a ****ing clue: a terrible player costs games, in more than one way. Especially when the rest of the team is sorta underachiving, a couple of terrible players have the potential to KILL the season - just ask the Triumverate of Doom (Wright-Koch-White) who singlehandedly sabotaged the team in every way in 1st half of 2003, thereby essentially killing our playoff hopes - the team had to expend too much energy overcoming the gigantic 1st half deficit in the face of a very tough 2nd half schedule, they simply had nothing left by the time they left NY in early September.

You have to look at the bigger picture to see how Koch, Alomar, Timo, Jackson, Cotts, Borchard, Diaz can have a devastating effect on a ballclub.

Oh and...stop hijacking the thread. Ozzie, remember?
:whatever:

ma_deuce
08-10-2004, 02:42 PM
No one could save this team with Maggs and Frank down. I'm sorry, but if you take the two best players out of any team in June, you can expect that team to suck a whole lot. Thats not Ozzie's fault. Thats just baseball.

Deuce

bigdommer
08-10-2004, 03:13 PM
No one could save this team with Maggs and Frank down. I'm sorry, but if you take the two best players out of any team in June, you can expect that team to suck a whole lot. Thats not Ozzie's fault. Thats just baseball.

Deuce
I agree. Take Vlad and G Anderson out of Anaheim. Take Ortiz and ManRam out of Boston. Take Alou and Erromis out of the Cubbies. Take Pujols and Rolen out of STL. Take Beltre and Green out of LA. Take Chavez and Hatteberg out of Oakland. Take Thome and Abreu out of Philly. Take JD Drew and one of the Jones out of Atlanta.

There are only two teams that could lose their two best hitters and survive. NYY, because they have about 25 All Stars on their team. And Minny, because the White Sox have already lost their best 2, allowing them to be competitive in a weak division.

Jamieboy
08-10-2004, 06:58 PM
Ozzie Guillen has definetly shown rookie mistakes, thats why I wanted Cito Gasten, like KW did before Reinsdorf told him to give Guillen a look. Obviously the whole seaosn can't be dumped onto Guillen's shoulders, but a lot of the issues that he was suposed to solve that people didn't like under Jerry haven't been solved. The team still hasn't gotten the fundamentals right. They still look for the HR ball, the bullpen is still marginally effective. Joe Crede and Jon Garland still haven't stepped up. Manuel juggled his lineups a lot, but so has Guillen, and the results seem to be the same. And what is Guillen doing by saying I think it was a good aggressive play by Hunter? ***!? You better come out and say that Hunter was looking to send a message, and that the Sox got the message loud and clear. Twins are a bunch of p*ssies and that they're looking for the Sox to give them a nice kick in ass. But no, Guillen smiles and says I liked the play. Bull, he should of realized that plays against like that against the Sox are not to be tolerated. He should of given the team the green light to send any message they please to the Twins the following inning. I'm sorry, but rookie manager or not, I'm not pleased by whats happening. True no team can survive the loss of its 2 best hitters. But also true KW has giving him a bunch of talent to work with. Also it was his job to get the young guys to respond. So yea, my question is ... when does KW pick up the phone and tell Cito he made a mistake.

misty60481
08-10-2004, 07:07 PM
I agree I think Ozzie should have had a couple years managing in the minors where his mistakes wouldnt show, I think the Hunter mess turned the whole season. I know you go downhill losing your 2 best hitters but what 3 and 12 we are not that bad???