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View Full Version : Will the SOX FINALLY learn their Lesson?


Hangar18
08-10-2004, 08:48 AM
Or will they continue to make the SAME mistakes, Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over again. Before someone (and a couple of you know who you are) says hey that was annoying, stop writing things over and over again, your weird, grow up blah etc blah blah, Just realize that I wrote that 24 times, for the exact number of years Jerry Reinsdorf has owned this team.

Will Next Year be the Year that Uncle Jerry finally Wakes Up (though seeing whats happening on the north side, may be too little too late) and commits
the Energy, the Financial Resources to WINNING?

Or is it too much to expect from this guy?

We went into the season losing our #1 Pitcher (and we needed an extra one at that) a suspect Bullpen, Still Needing a top of the order Hitter/infielder (since we "traded" Ray Durham) and Addressing the Bullpen Situation with the Departure of several key players. They Addressed NONE of them. They
crossed their fingers, and hoped that Danny Wright would step up, John Garland would become a #3 starter, an unproven Juan Uribe would lite the league up batting 2nd, and Willie Harris would be Rickey Henderson revisited. None of that happened, we lose Maggs and Frank to injuries
and the seasons finished.

Sure Glad I didnt Re-up my season tickets this season .............
They promised if we came, they would get players. Getting Everett
and Alomar.....Again....... Doesnt Count.

gosox41
08-10-2004, 08:52 AM
Or will they continue to make the SAME mistakes, Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over again. Before someone (and a couple of you know who you are) says hey that was annoying, stop writing things over and over again, your weird, grow up blah etc blah blah, Just realize that I wrote that 24 times, for the exact number of years Jerry Reinsdorf has owned this team.

Will Next Year be the Year that Uncle Jerry finally Wakes Up (though seeing whats happening on the north side, may be too little too late) and commits
the Energy, the Financial Resources to WINNING?

Or is it too much to expect from this guy?

We went into the season losing our #1 Pitcher (and we needed an extra one at that) a suspect Bullpen, Still Needing a top of the order Hitter/infielder (since we "traded" Ray Durham) and Addressing the Bullpen Situation with the Departure of several key players. They Addressed NONE of them. They
crossed their fingers, and hoped that Danny Wright would step up, John Garland would become a #3 starter, an unproven Juan Uribe would lite the league up batting 2nd, and Willie Harris would be Rickey Henderson revisited. None of that happened, we lose Maggs and Frank to injuries
and the seasons finished.

Sure Glad I didnt Re-up my season tickets this season .............
They promised if we came, they would get players. Getting Everett
and Alomar.....Again....... Doesnt Count.
I'm sick of this team and its holes also. But the Sox did get Contreras for a sucky Esteban as well as getting Freddy Garcia.


Bob

munchman33
08-10-2004, 08:56 AM
Well, I think next season will be a little different, at least in the rotation.

We've got three studs at the top in Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras. Jon can be the #4 or 5, depending on who else they get. If anything, the fact that we're out of it allows Diaz to start this year, making it obvious he's not fit. Kenny will have to get someone.

soxnut
08-10-2004, 09:02 AM
Or will they continue to make the SAME mistakes, Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over again. Before someone (and a couple of you know who you are) says hey that was annoying, stop writing things over and over again, your weird, grow up blah etc blah blah, Just realize that I wrote that 24 times, for the exact number of years Jerry Reinsdorf has owned this team.

Will Next Year be the Year that Uncle Jerry finally Wakes Up (though seeing whats happening on the north side, may be too little too late) and commits
the Energy, the Financial Resources to WINNING?

Or is it too much to expect from this guy?

We went into the season losing our #1 Pitcher (and we needed an extra one at that) a suspect Bullpen, Still Needing a top of the order Hitter/infielder (since we "traded" Ray Durham) and Addressing the Bullpen Situation with the Departure of several key players. They Addressed NONE of them. They
crossed their fingers, and hoped that Danny Wright would step up, John Garland would become a #3 starter, an unproven Juan Uribe would lite the league up batting 2nd, and Willie Harris would be Rickey Henderson revisited. None of that happened, we lose Maggs and Frank to injuries
and the seasons finished.

Sure Glad I didnt Re-up my season tickets this season .............
They promised if we came, they would get players. Getting Everett
and Alomar.....Again....... Doesnt Count.


I know alot of us use this board as a place to vent our frustrations, but have you ever posted anything positive? Just wondering. Not trying to snipe at you.

I mean I do think the Sox did a great job of getting rid of Loaiza and getting Contreras, getting Garcia, and signing MB to a deal, so our pitching is going in the right direction. Noone could have predicted that we would lose Frank and Magglio. I'm sure if we had both in the lineup, that the other little holes that have added up to a small mess would be overlooked and this team would be 6 games ahead and not behind. Oh well.

cubhater
08-10-2004, 09:06 AM
I'm sick of seeing this team put together in the off-season to contend in a weak division instead of contending for all the marbles. JR should go if he doesn't want to spend money like the big boys to field a solid team. Stop the small-market mentality! We have too many holes to fill during this upcoming off-season and I doubt if we'll take care of the problem (minor leaguers will be unacceptable in my opinion)!

Hangar18
08-10-2004, 09:33 AM
[QUOTE=soxnut]I know alot of us use this board as a place to vent our frustrations, but have you ever posted anything positive? Just wondering. Not trying to snipe at you.

I mean I do think the Sox did a great job of getting rid of Loaiza and getting Contreras, getting Garcia, and signing MB to a deal, so our pitching is going in the right direction. Noone could have predicted Maggs and Frank being injured QUOTE]

Yes, I post positive when im happy about something. Yes, that was a pretty good traded Loaiza for Contreras ( I said I had a feeling this was going to work out for us :smile: ) Im merely pointing out that EVERY PROBLEM they didnt address this year has come back finally to haunt us. Also, your right,
noone couldve predicted Injuries to Frank and Maggs, but Crooks like Jim Hendry anticipate them, and stock the Bench for just such situations.

misty60481
08-10-2004, 09:34 AM
Also on the postive side the breakthru of Aaron and the fine job of Ben Davis & Burke I think Cotts has shown improvement I just wish Crede had done more he has been disappointing. We still need Frank & Maggs

soxnut
08-10-2004, 09:41 AM
[QUOTE=soxnut]I know alot of us use this board as a place to vent our frustrations, but have you ever posted anything positive? Just wondering. Not trying to snipe at you.

I mean I do think the Sox did a great job of getting rid of Loaiza and getting Contreras, getting Garcia, and signing MB to a deal, so our pitching is going in the right direction. Noone could have predicted Maggs and Frank being injured QUOTE]

Yes, I post positive when im happy about something. Yes, that was a pretty good traded Loaiza for Contreras ( I said I had a feeling this was going to work out for us :smile: ) Im merely pointing out that EVERY PROBLEM they didnt address this year has come back finally to haunt us. Also, your right,
noone couldve predicted Injuries to Frank and Maggs, but Crooks like Jim Hendry anticipate them, and stock the Bench for just such situations.

Ok.:smile: I just wonder how Hendry get away with the stuff he does like Ramirez last year and Nomar this year...For the ways he stocks his bench, unfortunately he gets more money to play with than KW does.:(:

Evman5
08-10-2004, 09:54 AM
Well, I think next season will be a little different, at least in the rotation.

We've got three studs at the top in Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras. Jon can be the #4 or 5, depending on who else they get. If anything, the fact that we're out of it allows Diaz to start this year, making it obvious he's not fit. Kenny will have to get someone.

Sign Pavano for the 4 yr 30 mil he was looking for and your rotation is set.
Garland as a fifth starter is absolutely fine with me. If he ever lives up to the potential that could vault our rotation to one of the best in the majors.

Hangar18
08-10-2004, 10:03 AM
Sign Pavano for the 4 yr 30 mil he was looking for and your rotation is set.
Garland as a fifth starter is absolutely fine with me. If he ever lives up to the potential that could vault our rotation to one of the best in the majors.
This is a great idea ............ This would be an amazing pitching staff.
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Pavano, Garland. Resigning Maggs, and fixing
the bullpen and bench ...... would make for many a re-upping for season tix

Evman5
08-10-2004, 10:11 AM
This is a great idea ............ This would be an amazing pitching staff.
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Pavano, Garland. Resigning Maggs, and fixing
the bullpen and bench ...... would make for many a re-upping for season tix

When you have pitching like this you put your team in a good postion to win every game. I mean look at Oakland. When you have that great rotation it can carry you. Starting pitching dictates whether or not your team is going to win the game so much more than offense. I don't think it could be more clear! We just need to change our personnel on offense. This does not exactly mean add payroll, just trade off some of our slow right handed power hitters. I would like to see Konerko go, because Carlos does actually have some speed. Konerko has high trade value and we would be wise to ship him off. Then let Jose go and sign a solid SS. I mean we are so close, but if we make a few more additions we can be a great team.

CubKilla
08-10-2004, 10:20 AM
Even if the White Sox decided to go all in and sign every player that could help this team whatever they wanted in the '04-'05 offseason, ask yourselves how many on the wishlist would actually want to play for the White Sox? True..... money talks and BS walks..... usually..... but the owner of this team has alienated not only fans but MLB players during his tenure as White Sox owner. A #1 SP named Curt Schilling has stated he would "NEVER" play for the Chicago White Sox as long as Jerry Reinsdorf owned the team. This stems from his player rep dealings with JR during CBA talks. Just recently, reports have C Delgado and L Walker (who later accepted a trade to St. Louis) invoking their no trade clauses to avoid a move to the Chicago White Sox. Both were on teams either in or close to the cellar, yet both said "no" to a trade that would have placed them on a team that was still in contention..... albeit contention on life support. Even Ozzie Guillen himself, in a private phone call to C Delgado at the urging of KW, according to some reports I have read, couldn't convince C Delgado to leave Toronto. Word is out on JR LEAGUE WIDE and his contract's chock full of deferred payments, incentive clauses, and diminished skills' clauses. Under the JR Regime, the White Sox have been red-flagged, for the most part, amongst baseball's elite..... and for good reason.

After all, some gave their life for baseball, especially White Sox baseball, only to be unceremoniously dumped when no longer needed in the eyes of The Chairman and then denied access to his ex-teammates in the clubhouse before a playoff series when all the ex-player wanted to do was wish his ex-teammates luck.

Sell the team to someone who will give a damn JR.

owensmouth
08-10-2004, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=soxnut]I know alot of us use this board as a place to vent our frustrations, but have you ever posted anything positive? Just wondering. Not trying to snipe at you.

I mean I do think the Sox did a great job of getting rid of Loaiza and getting Contreras, getting Garcia, and signing MB to a deal, so our pitching is going in the right direction. Noone could have predicted Maggs and Frank being injured QUOTE]

Yes, I post positive when im happy about something. Yes, that was a pretty good traded Loaiza for Contreras ( I said I had a feeling this was going to work out for us :smile: ) Im merely pointing out that EVERY PROBLEM they didnt address this year has come back finally to haunt us. Also, your right,
noone couldve predicted Injuries to Frank and Maggs, but Crooks like Jim Hendry anticipate them, and stock the Bench for just such situations.So according to you, the problem is money. Tell the entire world Hangar 18, how much is the correct amount. Don't tell me who, just the exact amount that would get JR and the White Sox a World Series championship.

Wealz
08-10-2004, 10:30 AM
Even if the White Sox decided to go all in and sign every player that could help this team whatever they wanted in the '04-'05 offseason, ask yourselves how many on the wishlist would actually want to play for the White Sox? True..... money talks and BS walks..... usually..... but the owner of this team has alienated not only fans but MLB players during his tenure as White Sox owner. A #1 SP named Curt Schilling has stated he would "NEVER" play for the Chicago White Sox as long as Jerry Reinsdorf owned the team. This stems from his player rep dealings with JR during CBA talks. Just recently, reports have C Delgado and L Walker (who later accepted a trade to St. Louis) invoking their no trade clauses to avoid a move to the Chicago White Sox. Both were on teams either in or close to the cellar, yet both said "no" to a trade that would have placed them on a team that was still in contention..... albeit contention on life support. Even Ozzie Guillen himself, in a private phone call to C Delgado at the urging of KW, according to some reports I have read, couldn't convince C Delgado to leave Toronto. Word is out on JR LEAGUE WIDE and his contract's chock full of deferred payments, incentive clauses, and diminished skills' clauses. Under the JR Regime, the White Sox have been red-flagged, for the most part, amongst baseball's elite..... and for good reason.

After all, some gave their life for baseball, especially White Sox baseball, only to be unceremoniously dumped when no longer needed in the eyes of The Chairman and then denied access to his ex-teammates in the clubhouse before a playoff series when all the ex-player wanted to do was wish his ex-teammates luck.

Sell the team to someone who will give a damn JR.
It does not matter if players want to play here if you can't make correct talent evaluations. Besides, it's not like college football used to be where you can sign 100 guys just to keep them away from the competition.

samram
08-10-2004, 10:32 AM
. A #1 SP named Curt Schilling has stated he would "NEVER" play for the Chicago White Sox as long as Jerry Reinsdorf owned the team. This stems from his player rep dealings with JR during CBA talks.
Of course, that was the same Curt Schilling who ripped the MLBPA this past off-season when they blocked the A-Rod trade because the reduction in compensation would have hurt all players. I guess Curt only cares about the CBA if invoking its provisions won't hurt him.

KingXerxes
08-10-2004, 10:44 AM
Well, I think next season will be a little different, at least in the rotation.

We've got three studs at the top in Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras. Jon can be the #4 or 5, depending on who else they get. If anything, the fact that we're out of it allows Diaz to start this year, making it obvious he's not fit. Kenny will have to get someone.
Here's the problem. We've already got Buehrle, Garcia and Contreras (as well as Garland) in our rotation. Right now...........for the past couple of weeks......what's our record?

The fact that we have the guys for an entire year next year will only mean something if other moves are made during the offseason. Those three alone mean absolutely nothing (as evidenced over the past two weeks or so) if the rest of the team is a bunch of platooning cast-offs. With a lot of money locked up in the pitching staff for next year, one has to wonder what sort of players will be signed to fill some glaring holes in this team (catcher, short, third, right and of course - depth on the bench).

Clarkdog
08-10-2004, 10:45 AM
Yes, I post positive when im happy about something. Yes, that was a pretty good traded Loaiza for Contreras ( I said I had a feeling this was going to work out for us :smile: ) Im merely pointing out that EVERY PROBLEM they didnt address this year has come back finally to haunt us. Also, your right,
noone couldve predicted Injuries to Frank and Maggs, but Crooks like Jim Hendry anticipate them, and stock the Bench for just such situations.Hangar:

I couldn't agree with you more. After last night's loss, though impressed with the comeback and see it as a positive, I started to think about why they lost. And if there was ever a game where the weaknesses of this team coming out of Spring Training were exposed, it was this one.

LACK OF A TESTED FIFTH STARTER
I agree with Hawk - Diaz has potential and needs to learn to pitch at this level. He's 10-2 with a sub 3 ERA at AAA - he must have some talent. But he does not have overpowering stuff - he is not Rich Harden. To put a rookie like Diaz out there in a starting role without enough big league experience is a recipe for failure. See Neal Cotts in 2003. Cotts has shown some potential, he is learning to pitch here, Diaz should get the same opportunity. As for Schoeneweis who started as our #4 and became our #5, while there was early promise - it turns out that in German, "Schoeneweis" means "smoke and mirrors". My point here is that all the organization went with in this critical spot was hope - hope that Wright could get it done, hope the Schoeneweis could step up to a starter's role, hope that one of a bundle of AAA pitchers could instantly be a solid MLB starter in one appearance.

NO BULLPEN DEPTH
Who here would have loved to have Tom Gordon in our bullpen last night - instead of Mike Jackson? How big of a difference would that one player have made on our team today? We could have hung on to him. Nuf 'ced.

LACK OF CONSISTENT SITUATIONAL HITTING WITH MEN ON BASE
Now I know that the inability to bunt has been a constant part of the Sox paradigm, but it is a model of a losing team - teams that cannot execute in game situations will not win championships. If you have a man on second and no one out - you must score that run. That means hitting behind the runner or bunting him over. Rowand did not execute - had he and it completely changes the makeup of the game, you could have had men of 2nd and 3rd and one out with Lee at the plate and Miller forced to pitch to him or face Konerko with possibly the bases loaded.

The question for the 2005 season is whether the Sox take steps to solve the problems or ignore these weaknesses again.

greenpeach
08-10-2004, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=soxnut]I know alot of us use this board as a place to vent our frustrations, but have you ever posted anything positive? Just wondering. Not trying to snipe at you.

I mean I do think the Sox did a great job of getting rid of Loaiza and getting Contreras, getting Garcia, and signing MB to a deal, so our pitching is going in the right direction. Noone could have predicted Maggs and Frank being injured QUOTE]

Yes, I post positive when im happy about something. Yes, that was a pretty good traded Loaiza for Contreras ( I said I had a feeling this was going to work out for us :smile: ) Im merely pointing out that EVERY PROBLEM they didnt address this year has come back finally to haunt us. Also, your right,
noone couldve predicted Injuries to Frank and Maggs, but Crooks like Jim Hendry anticipate them, and stock the Bench for just such situations.
Hangar, it's easy to "anticipate" situations like Hendry did when you're working with a 95 million dollar payroll. KW has done an above average job this year with his rather meager 63 million dollar budget. In fact, I think that we've got
one of the best starting staffs in the American League. He should get kudos for that reason alone.

The bottom line is that season ending injuries to Frank & Maggs killed our playoff hopes this year. End of story.

TornLabrum
08-10-2004, 11:13 AM
Or will they continue to make the SAME mistakes, Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over again. Before someone (and a couple of you know who you are) says hey that was annoying, stop writing things over and over again, your weird, grow up blah etc blah blah, Just realize that I wrote that 24 times, for the exact number of years Jerry Reinsdorf has owned this team.

Will Next Year be the Year that Uncle Jerry finally Wakes Up (though seeing whats happening on the north side, may be too little too late) and commits
the Energy, the Financial Resources to WINNING?

Or is it too much to expect from this guy?

We went into the season losing our #1 Pitcher (and we needed an extra one at that) a suspect Bullpen, Still Needing a top of the order Hitter/infielder (since we "traded" Ray Durham) and Addressing the Bullpen Situation with the Departure of several key players. They Addressed NONE of them. They
crossed their fingers, and hoped that Danny Wright would step up, John Garland would become a #3 starter, an unproven Juan Uribe would lite the league up batting 2nd, and Willie Harris would be Rickey Henderson revisited. None of that happened, we lose Maggs and Frank to injuries
and the seasons finished.

Sure Glad I didnt Re-up my season tickets this season .............
They promised if we came, they would get players. Getting Everett
and Alomar.....Again....... Doesnt Count.
Hangar, this is my 50th year as a Sox fan. They've been making those same mistakes for that long. Why should they change now?

Hangar18
08-10-2004, 11:29 AM
So according to you, the problem is money. Tell the entire world Hangar 18, how much is the correct amount. Don't tell me who, just the exact amount that would get JR and the White Sox a World Series championship.
YES, I guess I shall tell the world what the problem has been all along. Money.
The SOX have either Never Spent enough of it (Majority of the time) or theyve
Spent it Foolishly on bad players (Navarro instead of Clemens, signing Belle instead of another pitcher in 96, 5million for Valentin when he wouldve taken less). Whats the CORRECT AMOUNT to win a WS CHampionship?
The Correct amount is the amount it takes to KEEP YOUR TEAM INTACT & INCLUDES $$$$ to Fill Your Holes. Whatever that amount comes to ......
is the Correct amount. The SOX therefore wouldve needed to be in the 80-90 million dollar range to have kept last yrs team intact, and adding a couple of key players.

Evman5
08-10-2004, 11:49 AM
Here's the problem. We've already got Buehrle, Garcia and Contreras (as well as Garland) in our rotation. Right now...........for the past couple of weeks......what's our record?

The fact that we have the guys for an entire year next year will only mean something if other moves are made during the offseason. Those three alone mean absolutely nothing (as evidenced over the past two weeks or so) if the rest of the team is a bunch of platooning cast-offs. With a lot of money locked up in the pitching staff for next year, one has to wonder what sort of players will be signed to fill some glaring holes in this team (catcher, short, third, right and of course - depth on the bench).
I agree with you, however I have a feeling a bunch of these games would have played out differently if we had a certain #30 and a certain #35 in their rightful 3 and 4 spots in our line-up.

Flight #24
08-10-2004, 12:14 PM
I agree with you, however I have a feeling a bunch of these games would have played out differently if we had a certain #30 and a certain #35 in their rightful 3 and 4 spots in our line-up.
I think a pretty strong argument can be made that even having just #35 would make a huge difference and have us close to even with the Twins. The gain from swapping Timo/Gload for Frank and his impact on the rest of the lineup are huge.

By coincidence, this is exactly what we're likely to have next year: This team with Frank added (including full years of Garcia & Contreras). a couple of additional pieces (bullpen help, upgrade in the MIF) are all that's necessary IMO to put us in the playoffs in 05.

Evman5
08-10-2004, 12:21 PM
I think a pretty strong argument can be made that even having just #35 would make a huge difference and have us close to even with the Twins. The gain from swapping Timo/Gload for Frank and his impact on the rest of the lineup are huge.

By coincidence, this is exactly what we're likely to have next year: This team with Frank added (including full years of Garcia & Contreras). a couple of additional pieces (bullpen help, upgrade in the MIF) are all that's necessary IMO to put us in the playoffs in 05.

Flight I agree 100%, I just thought it had more impact saying without Maggs and Frank. I love Maggs, but I don't think he is worth 14 mil. However, if that money disappears, like the Colon money, I will be dissapointed. Frank is the guy everybody feeds off of because when he gets hot the whole team gets on a role. IMO maggs is replaceable.

Palehose13
08-10-2004, 12:25 PM
This is a great idea ............ This would be an amazing pitching staff.
Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Pavano, Garland. Resigning Maggs, and fixing
the bullpen and bench ...... would make for many a re-upping for season tix
Hangar, I don't know if I would say that you may re-up your season tix. As much as Uncle Jerry loves money, I don't think he wants you at the ball park for every game! :wink:

habibharu
08-10-2004, 12:45 PM
agreed hangar. it is time to break up the core of this team. out of valentin, crede, hurt, maggs, lee, and PK, i dont want more than 2 of those back. i prefer that it be lee and hurt. trade PK, garland, and crede. the bullpen needs a major overhaul. the bench is pretty decent. we still need 1 or 2 more SP.

CWWTWS1
08-10-2004, 12:58 PM
Can somone explain to me how Jim Hendry is a "crook' and what he has do with any of the Sox problems?:?:

Palehose13
08-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Can somone explain to me how Jim Hendry is a "crook' and what he has do with any of the Sox problems?:?:
*sniff* *sniff*

:dtroll: ?

CWWTWS1
08-10-2004, 01:04 PM
Not a troll, palehose. Just wondering what Hendry has to do with the Sox current state of affairs.

Palehose13
08-10-2004, 01:05 PM
Not a troll, palehose. Just wondering what Hendry has to do with the Sox current state of affairs.
Just wondering, cause looking at your posts you seem to follow Hangar around.

maurice
08-10-2004, 01:06 PM
Give (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x09-ard1.htm) Williams credit for securing a decent starting rotation for next season at decent prices. Give him credit for pulling out all the stops this year, which was a great idea until injuries pulled the heart out of his lineup (and sorry, but sometimes injuries are a legit excuse, regardless of whether Williams chooses to use them). But it doesn't look like he'll be able to fit Magglio Ordonez into the budget given player options totaling $12 million certain to be picked up by Frank Thomas and Carl Everett.

When Roberto Alomar arrived the other day, Ozzie Guillen said, correctly, neither Willie Harris nor Juan Uribe had performed well enough to deserve to play every day. Yet, unless the Sox bring back Alomar cheaply next season (and they couldn't pull that off last year), one of them will have to. So, too, will the disappointing Joe Crede, for whom the Sox clearly don't have an option. They'll also have to address shortstop (where Jose Valentin should not be brought back) and catcher (unless they're buying into Ben Davis' recent hot streak).

With a healthy Thomas, with Everett replacing Ordonez in right, with, say, Uribe or some other budget-friendly acquisition sliding to short, Alomar playing second and whomever taking up most of the departed Miguel Olivo's slack behind the plate, the White Sox's projected everyday lineup for next season doesn't look as good as the one they began with this year.
I agree. The obvious moves are fine but, to improve the team, they need to spend some cash and make at least one big acquisition this offseason. SS, 3B, C, or SP would be a nice place to start.

Then again, I said the same thing last year.

CWWTWS1
08-10-2004, 01:11 PM
Handcuffs>>>>>>>>>Kenny Willams
Applies the Handcuffs>>>>>>>Jerry Reinsdorf.

Kenny has done about as much as anyone can ask of a GM in his situation. You can't cry about him not spending $100 dollars when he only has $75 in his pocket. Williams is doing just fine.

Mohoney
08-10-2004, 01:24 PM
Well, I think next season will be a little different, at least in the rotation.

We've got three studs at the top in Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras. Jon can be the #4 or 5, depending on who else they get. If anything, the fact that we're out of it allows Diaz to start this year, making it obvious he's not fit. Kenny will have to get someone.

If Garland is our #4 next year, we're screwed. This guy is actually worse this year than he was last year! So forget this guy "taking the next step", because his next step will be to get back to where he was in 2003!

Going on 4 years, this guy hasn't improved one bit. Enough is enough. If you desperately need to hang on to this guy, fine. Make him your #5. However, if this team doesn't add a legitimate starter in the offseason, we're screwed.

Palehose13
08-10-2004, 01:25 PM
Handcuffs>>>>>>>>>Kenny Willams
Applies the Handcuffs>>>>>>>Jerry Reinsdorf.

Kenny has done about as much as anyone can ask of a GM in his situation. You can't cry about him not spending $100 dollars when he only has $75 in his pocket. Williams is doing just fine.
I agree with you there.

Mohoney
08-10-2004, 01:33 PM
YES, I guess I shall tell the world what the problem has been all along. Money.
The SOX have either Never Spent enough of it (Majority of the time) or theyve
Spent it Foolishly on bad players (Navarro instead of Clemens, signing Belle instead of another pitcher in 96, 5million for Valentin when he wouldve taken less). Whats the CORRECT AMOUNT to win a WS CHampionship?
The Correct amount is the amount it takes to KEEP YOUR TEAM INTACT & INCLUDES $$$$ to Fill Your Holes. Whatever that amount comes to ......
is the Correct amount. The SOX therefore wouldve needed to be in the 80-90 million dollar range to have kept last yrs team intact, and adding a couple of key players.

Plus, Reinsdorf apparantly will NEVER give a Free Agent pitcher more than 3 years in a deal. Even when pitchers seem to agree on the dollar figures, Reinsdorf won't budge on the 3 year thing.

There are some very good Free Agent pitchers that we could invest Magglio and Valentin's money in, but these guys will all want more than 3 years.

I say, offer a 5 year, $50 million contract to Carl Pavano and Russ Ortiz. One of them might say yes. If we can't come up with that kind of cash, then offer 5 years, $35 million (plus incentives that can kick it up to $40 million) to Matt Morris.

Even if all 3 of these guys turn us down, at least a REAL effort was made to field a top-notch rotation.

Hangar18
08-10-2004, 01:41 PM
Hangar:
NO BULLPEN DEPTH
Who here would have loved to have Tom Gordon in our bullpen last night - instead of Mike Jackson? How big of a difference would that one player have made on our team today?

The question for the 2005 season is whether the Sox take steps to solve the problems or ignore these weaknesses again.
But at least we SAVED SOME MONEY signing Jackson out of retirement !!!!!!
Look at the money we saved!!!!