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mdep524
08-10-2004, 12:15 AM
I was going to put this in the postgame thread, but I think it deserves its own thread.

As awful as poor Felix Diax was up there tonight, I think the Sox are really putting him (and, earlier in the year, Rauch and Munoz) in a position to fail with their day-of-game call ups.

As I was driving home from the park tonight, I heard John Rooney mention that Diaz was flown in TODAY to make it to the park to pitch tonight. This is just wrong. He, Rauch and Munoz have all failed in this situation before- you cannot call a pitcher up on the day of the game, fly him in mere hours before he has to arrive to the park, run him out there like a cheap last ditch back up plan and expect him to do well. It is a terrible strategy.

Instead, the Sox should have decided immediately when Schoney went on the DL who their 5th starter was going to be. They should have promoted Diaz at that time, let him get comfortable in the clubhouse, make him feel WANTED, travel with the team, chew pistachios in the dugout and feel like part of the team. Like a real member of the White Sox. Maybe then he wouldn't be as shakey out there in the early going, feeling like he's just there to go a few innings before being demoted back to AAA.

The Sox employed this strategy with Rauch earlier this year, and the results were much better: June 24, vs. these same Indians, Rauch was called up several days before his scheduled start and got his only win of the year as he pitched 5 strong innings to IIRC, stop a Sox mini-losing streak.

Meanwhile, Diaz was left to twist in the wind in the days before today's game. Terrible decision-making by Sox brass, and I think it is part of the reason all these prospects (especially pitchers) turn to busts. Thoughts?

nitetrain8601
08-10-2004, 12:20 AM
I agree. I have noticed this too. They need to call them up immediately so they get used to the club house. When a trade goes down you don't see a player get flown in a play immediately and do good, so they usually just sit and maybe pinch hit, but never go all the way in the first game. It's sad, because I know Diaz will be going.

DumpJerry
08-10-2004, 12:38 AM
You make good sence. This management is dysfunctional as they try to do too much at the same time and miss important details like who is pitching in 24 hours?

DrCrawdad
08-10-2004, 12:58 AM
Interesting points about the Sox shuffling Diaz in late. I've been wondering tonight how Diaz could do so well in AAA but get his arse handed to him in MLB.

I'd actually enjoy hearing from someone talk about why Diaz hasn't had success here yet. I already know that MLB is a big step-up from AAA. I'm just interested in more insight into why Diaz has failed, like what I read here about his being brought in at the last moment.

Kilroy
08-10-2004, 01:01 AM
Its really strange considering that I heard it talked about that Diaz would start today as early as Friday. They couldn't get him here sooner? Starters have been known to travel a day earlier than the rest of the team, why would they do that to Diaz?

nitetrain8601
08-10-2004, 01:13 AM
I heard it on Friday too and I was at Orientation when I heard it, so to not have him in Chicago at latest Sunday is just stupid management by the Orginazation.

Gimm
08-10-2004, 01:14 AM
Its really strange considering that I heard it talked about that Diaz would start today as early as Friday. They couldn't get him here sooner? Starters have been known to travel a day earlier than the rest of the team, why would they do that to Diaz?
Come on, JR can't be expected to pay for a Sunday flight.

Monday on the other hand, is more financially prudent.

sendimjoey
08-10-2004, 01:29 AM
I also thought his first two starts with the club weren't handled well. Because of a rainout, he was forced to wait around through the first game of a doubleheader before making his major-league debut. Now, I know the idea was to have the player who was sent down available for the first game, but considering it was a backup (Dransfeldt, I think), wouldn't it have been worth it to make the roster move sooner and give Diaz the best chance to be successful? Then, because he didn't throw many pitches, Diaz was brought back on three days' rest, which I'm sure he's not used to, against Cleveland. Both of these situations could have been handled better.

That said, boy, if you're going to throw batting practice, you should put up a screen. He was terrible tonight. :(:

SomebodyToldMe
08-10-2004, 01:36 AM
well...the guy's put in terrible positions all season long...i mean...they let danny wrong go for so freakin' long, the least they could have done to this kid is let him pitch about 4 straight starts early in the season...they screwed with this kid too much...same with rauch...oh well...then again, i'm just a member of a white sox message board, so what do i know...

JB98
08-10-2004, 02:24 AM
I was going to put this in the postgame thread, but I think it deserves its own thread.

As awful as poor Felix Diax was up there tonight, I think the Sox are really putting him (and, earlier in the year, Rauch and Munoz) in a position to fail with their day-of-game call ups.

As I was driving home from the park tonight, I heard John Rooney mention that Diaz was flown in TODAY to make it to the park to pitch tonight. This is just wrong. He, Rauch and Munoz have all failed in this situation before- you cannot call a pitcher up on the day of the game, fly him in mere hours before he has to arrive to the park, run him out there like a cheap last ditch back up plan and expect him to do well. It is a terrible strategy.

Instead, the Sox should have decided immediately when Schoney went on the DL who their 5th starter was going to be. They should have promoted Diaz at that time, let him get comfortable in the clubhouse, make him feel WANTED, travel with the team, chew pistachios in the dugout and feel like part of the team. Like a real member of the White Sox. Maybe then he wouldn't be as shakey out there in the early going, feeling like he's just there to go a few innings before being demoted back to AAA.

The Sox employed this strategy with Rauch earlier this year, and the results were much better: June 24, vs. these same Indians, Rauch was called up several days before his scheduled start and got his only win of the year as he pitched 5 strong innings to IIRC, stop a Sox mini-losing streak.

Meanwhile, Diaz was left to twist in the wind in the days before today's game. Terrible decision-making by Sox brass, and I think it is part of the reason all these prospects (especially pitchers) turn to busts. Thoughts?

Interesting thought. The one win Diaz had this year was against the Cubs, and IIRC, he was brought up a few days before his start. He was able to sit on the bench for the first game of the Crosstown series, and then he went out and pitched solidly the second game. In fact, I remember Alomar commenting that it helped Diaz to "see the stage" during that Friday afternoon game, and it better prepared him to make his start.

BarbG
08-10-2004, 02:37 AM
I felt really bad for that kid tonight, worse when he got boo'ed so badly. I don't think he's been given a decent chance. At least he can get the ball over the damn plate (ummm, a little too well tonight...) unlike some other "pitchers" of ours. He needs some work, some practice, and maybe a little more notice.

SomebodyToldMe
08-10-2004, 02:46 AM
I felt really bad for that kid tonight, worse when he got boo'ed so badly. I don't think he's been given a decent chance. At least he can get the ball over the damn plate (ummm, a little too well tonight...) unlike some other "pitchers" of ours. He needs some work, some practice, and maybe a little more notice.
yeah...i felt the same way...i got a little teary eyed when i heard everyone booing him...

the poor kid...as i said in my earlier post, he needed to get his chance to pitch every 5 days earlier in the season.

Gimm
08-10-2004, 02:46 AM
Interesting points about the Sox shuffling Diaz in late. I've been wondering tonight how Diaz could do so well in AAA but get his arse handed to him in MLB .

well...the guy's put in terrible positions all season long...i mean...they let danny wrong go for so freakin' long, the least they could have done to this kid is let him pitch about 4 straight starts early in the season...they screwed with this kid too much...same with rauch...oh well...then again, i'm just a member of a white sox message board, so what do i know...

Then, because he didn't throw many pitches, Diaz was brought back on three days' rest, which I'm sure he's not used to

Oh **** the excuses!

He was flat-out horrible. This team cannot afford him to be mediocre, let alone horrible. Unacceptable.

BarbG
08-10-2004, 02:54 AM
He was flat-out horrible. This team cannot afford him to be mediocre, let alone horrible. Unacceptable.

So was Politte and so was Jackson, for the umpteenth time each, and they didn't get boo'ed off the field. I've watched Loaiza get slammed for 7 runs too. He's young, he's new, and at least he isn't wild.

JB98
08-10-2004, 02:56 AM
.



Oh **** the excuses!

He was flat-out horrible. This team cannot afford him to be mediocre, let alone horrible. Unacceptable.
He stunk. No doubt about that, but he's just a 23-year-old kid making his fifth major-league start. He was flown in this afternoon to face one of the best hitting teams in the AL. The task before him was not easy, and I don't think it's really fair to jump all over him because he failed. If were asking Diaz to be the saviour, well, I think that's an indictment on the White Sox organization.

I didn't boo Diaz when he left the mound. I did, however, boo Politte. He is a veteran pitcher, and his walking the leadoff batter and failure to get anyone out in the ninth inning was just ridiculous.

ChiSoxBobette
08-10-2004, 07:14 AM
Its really strange considering that I heard it talked about that Diaz would start today as early as Friday. They couldn't get him here sooner? Starters have been known to travel a day earlier than the rest of the team, why would they do that to Diaz?
Who the heck cares when he gets here all he should be grateful for is being up in the majors. The big question we should be asking is whats going on down in our minor league system namely how can a guy be 10-2 with 2.00 era(I think its about 2.70)and come up here and be so terrible. Everytime one of these guys come up here they look like a deer in some car headlights. What the hell is the problem how can all of these guys be that scared of playing in the majors are they all career minor league players. I know they're probably nervous but come on its not like he come up for the 1st time. I think our farm system needs a good cleaning out , lets get some players in here with some attitude. Our system and whoever is drafting these players is a joke now.

Frater Perdurabo
08-10-2004, 09:32 AM
Is there some kind of rule that prevents a player who is not on the 25-man roster from being in the clubhouse? Does MLB employ "police" who monitor who comes and goes from a team's clubhouse and assess fines if more than 25 players are in the clubhouse?

If so, is this the "reason" why Diaz is flown in on the day of his start? Did they want to keep Burke on the roster until the last minute.

The Sox easily could have flown Diaz in on Thursday (or just after his most recent start in Charlotte), allowed him to hang out in the clubhouse, and actually have made the call-up official as of Sunday or Monday. Or, if they couldn't let him in the clubhouse, at the very least he could have watched games from the owners box (or an empty skybox!!!!) and gotten settled into his hotel room (or another player's house, or Guillen's couch!).

Thursdays and Saturdays are considered "off peak" days for air travel.

I see two possibilities: either someone in the travel office is too dense to realize that Diaz could have flown in on Thursday or Saturday, or as an organization they have no idea who will fill in for these last minute spot starts. I really hope it's #1, because that easily is correctable. #2 doesn't speak well for the level of organization within the organization.

Jerko
08-10-2004, 09:43 AM
I would agree with the "he's a 23 year old kid give him a chance" thing if I hadn't seen every single "23 year old kid" who goes against ths Sox shut them down with regularity. How the hell old are Zambrano and Prior? Its' not like they're seasoned veterans. Some people just have it at the major league level, and some don't.

gosox41
08-10-2004, 09:58 AM
I was going to put this in the postgame thread, but I think it deserves its own thread.

As awful as poor Felix Diax was up there tonight, I think the Sox are really putting him (and, earlier in the year, Rauch and Munoz) in a position to fail with their day-of-game call ups.

As I was driving home from the park tonight, I heard John Rooney mention that Diaz was flown in TODAY to make it to the park to pitch tonight. This is just wrong. He, Rauch and Munoz have all failed in this situation before- you cannot call a pitcher up on the day of the game, fly him in mere hours before he has to arrive to the park, run him out there like a cheap last ditch back up plan and expect him to do well. It is a terrible strategy.

Instead, the Sox should have decided immediately when Schoney went on the DL who their 5th starter was going to be. They should have promoted Diaz at that time, let him get comfortable in the clubhouse, make him feel WANTED, travel with the team, chew pistachios in the dugout and feel like part of the team. Like a real member of the White Sox. Maybe then he wouldn't be as shakey out there in the early going, feeling like he's just there to go a few innings before being demoted back to AAA.

The Sox employed this strategy with Rauch earlier this year, and the results were much better: June 24, vs. these same Indians, Rauch was called up several days before his scheduled start and got his only win of the year as he pitched 5 strong innings to IIRC, stop a Sox mini-losing streak.

Meanwhile, Diaz was left to twist in the wind in the days before today's game. Terrible decision-making by Sox brass, and I think it is part of the reason all these prospects (especially pitchers) turn to busts. Thoughts?
Sox management under Kenny Williams knows exactly what it takes to develop productive major league players. Just take a look at such recent call ups as...wait a second it's coming to me.....oh wait there are none.

KW didn't want to waste options on Reed/Borchard. But so far Diaz has been called up 3 times this season. THe first 2 times he was given a grand total of 3 starts. Rauch was used for all of 2 starts and called up and sent down twice. Is this how to develop ML talent?


Bob

Over By There
08-10-2004, 10:03 AM
I'm torn on this one. Clearly, the Sox could have gotten him in to town and acclimated him a little better. Plus, it's hardly confidence inspiring to be up/down/up/down all year. So I want to cut the kid some slack.

But on the other hand, it seems to me that a large percentage of the time we face some kid just called up from AAA making his first big league start, he shuts us down pretty well.

Frater Perdurabo
08-10-2004, 11:02 AM
]KW didn't want to waste options on Reed/Borchard. But so far Diaz has been called up 3 times this season. THe first 2 times he was given a grand total of 3 starts. Rauch was used for all of 2 starts and called up and sent down twice. Is this how to develop ML talent?

That really is quite disturbing and contradictory.

sendimjoey
08-10-2004, 11:03 AM
. Oh **** the excuses!

He was flat-out horrible. This team cannot afford him to be mediocre, let alone horrible. Unacceptable.
Gimm, I agree that he hasn't shown a whole lot so far. What I'm saying, and what I think others in this thread that you quoted are saying, is that it would be nice to see Felix Diaz take a regular turn in the rotation three or four times, to eliminate all these other factors and really see if he can be a decent fifth starter. Sure, those are excuses, but those excuses form the context in which he has pitched thus far, just like a lot of people feel like Jose Contreras pitched in a situation that wasn't great for him when he was with the Yankees.

mdep524
08-10-2004, 12:05 PM
I'm torn on this one. Clearly, the Sox could have gotten him in to town and acclimated him a little better. Plus, it's hardly confidence inspiring to be up/down/up/down all year. So I want to cut the kid some slack.

But on the other hand, it seems to me that a large percentage of the time we face some kid just called up from AAA making his first big league start, he shuts us down pretty well.
Haha, you're right. But I think that is more of a reflection of Sox hitters than it is of other teams' rookie pitchers.

jeremyb1
08-10-2004, 10:02 PM
KW and Ozzie have handled the promotions for the fifth starters spot like five year olds since Wright went down. Frankly, I'm ashamed.