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CWSGuy406
08-09-2004, 06:02 PM
On the Whitesox.com message boards, a guy is posting that the Sox and Blue Jays are VERY close, or pretty much done on a deal that would send a combination of Enemencio Pachecho/Joe Borchard/Willie Harris to the Blue Jays in exchange for 1B/DH Carlos Delgado.

The ONLY credibility I take from it is that at least the guy put some effort into his posts, like punctuation and spelling - so, IMO, it's not very credible, just saying it seems more credible then someone who just posts a one line thing of the trade.

Here's the link:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-whitesox&msg=32017.1

I usually don't post rumors, but I thought you guys would at least like to see/discuss.

DickAllen72
08-09-2004, 06:05 PM
It's all BS. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Anyone can claim they're anybody and say anything.

Blob
08-09-2004, 06:07 PM
Plus didn't he say no to the trade the first time??

Baby Fisk
08-09-2004, 06:11 PM
Where's Lord Vader? We need him to verify or dismiss this rumour. I say this because he dropped some hint about this a few days ago. :?:

Palehose13
08-09-2004, 06:11 PM
It's all BS. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Anyone can claim they're anybody and say anything.

True, but it sure is interesting. The one thing that I found to be intriguing is that he wrote that Delgado will be with the Sox tomorrow, so if it is fabricated then it will have a short life!

Mickster
08-09-2004, 06:14 PM
Don't rule anything out with KW at the helm. :o:

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-09-2004, 06:15 PM
The Blue Jays dumped their manager so I could see him waiving his no trade clause. Veteran players like Delgado usually don't like having to put up with new managers

Palehose13
08-09-2004, 06:17 PM
The Blue Jays dumped their manager so I could see him waiving his no trade clause. Veteran players like Delgado usually don't like having to put up with new managers

Interesting angle. Didn't think of that. I like it!

Baby Fisk
08-09-2004, 06:26 PM
Billy Beane protegé J.P. Ricciardi is not a fan of Delgado. Delgado came up through the Jays system in the early 90's, back when Ricciardi was still in short pants. Almost immediately after taking the job a few years ago, Ricciardi did a massive salary dump and got rid of several well-liked Toronto players in favour of his long-term, low-budget, ahem, Moneyball approach to GMing. Ricciardi owes nothing to Delgado, and vice versa, but I can only see Delgado being traded to a contender as a two-month rental at this point.

Are the Sox still a contender? :(:

Palehose13
08-09-2004, 06:29 PM
Billy Beane protegé J.P. Ricciardi is not a fan of Delgado. Delgado came up through the Jays system in the early 90's, back when Ricciardi was still in short pants. Almost immediately after taking the job a few years ago, Ricciardi did a massive salary dump and got rid of several well-liked Toronto players in favour of his long-term, low-budget, ahem, Moneyball approach to GMing. Ricciardi owes nothing to Delgado, and vice versa, but I can only see Delgado being traded to a contender as a two-month rental at this point.

Are the Sox still a contender? :(:

I turned on ESPN 1000 to listen for any announcements. Any word of this in Toronto?

Baby Fisk
08-09-2004, 06:30 PM
I turned on ESPN 1000 to listen for any announcements. Any word of this in Toronto?What, you WANT me to turn off this Cure CD? :cool:

Palehose13
08-09-2004, 06:32 PM
What, you WANT me to turn off this Cure CD? :cool:


No Joni Mitchell???? No way. Keep listening to the cure. I honestly didn't think there was sports radio in Toronto. I thought the Mounties rode around with "updates". :D:

mcfish
08-09-2004, 06:32 PM
Does this really help us that much? We're taking on a LOT in Delgado's salary and losing a few players that are supposed to be talented. Does anyone really think Delgado's going to stay here next year? Platooning 2 of 3 out of Thomas/Konerko/Delgado would be stupid, which leaves Paulie as the odd man out. What do we do with Everett? Do we really want him playing outfield everyday? What do we do about a second baseman in a couple years? Do we really think that Willie has no chance of being good? I thought he needed to be benched quite a few times this year, but not traded. Did KW give up on Borchard. Just a little bit ago he supposedly kept JB over Reed - our highest rated prospect. Why would Delgado waive his clause now - we're the same amount of games out and there's less ball to play. How will we get Willie and Borchard to both clear waivers? I assume that that works both ways. Sorry, that's enough. Just a bunch of questions that came to mind when thinking about the possibility.

Palehose13
08-09-2004, 06:35 PM
Does this really help us that much? We're taking on a LOT in Delgado's salary and losing a few players that are supposed to be talented. Does anyone really think Delgado's going to stay here next year? Platooning 2 of 3 out of Thomas/Konerko/Delgado would be stupid, which leaves Paulie as the odd man out. What do we do with Everett? Do we really want him playing outfield everyday? What do we do about a second baseman in a couple years? Do we really think that Willie has no chance of being good? I thought he needed to be benched quite a few times this year, but not traded. Did KW give up on Borchard. Just a little bit ago he supposedly kept JB over Reed - our highest rated prospect. Why would Delgado waive his clause now - we're the same amount of games out and there's less ball to play. How will we get Willie and Borchard to both clear waivers? I assume that that works both ways. Sorry, that's enough. Just a bunch of questions that came to mind when thinking about the possibility.

Here is the post from the "insider" that may help answer some of your questions. BTW...I should get your tape by the end of the week.


Take my word for it, or don't, this is a done deal. The uniform is already hanging in the locker room. Mr. Delgado will be reporting for tomorrows game against the Royals.

The trade is for Borchard and Harris. It has been in the works since before the deadline. That was the reason for the Alomar deal. Mr. Williams has been concerned at the backlash Willie Harris has been getting over the Ordonez incident and did not believe he would ever be embraced by the fans. The belief is that Uribe will be able to correct his swing with a little more work and be the number one 2B next season.

Baby Fisk
08-09-2004, 06:37 PM
I did a quick scan of Toronto media and there's nothing re. DELGADO and TRADE since the news that he declined to waive his no-trade clause a few weeks ago. This story looks to have a short lifespan...

...but doesn't Kenny always pull the trigger on the last day of a series?

Mickster
08-09-2004, 06:39 PM
I did a quick scan of Toronto media and there's nothing re. DELGADO and TRADE since the news that he declined to waive his no-trade clause a few weeks ago. This story looks to have a short lifespan...

...but doesn't Kenny always pull the trigger on the last day of a series?
Interesting :cool:

mcfish
08-09-2004, 06:42 PM
Here is the post from the "insider" that may help answer some of your questions. BTW...I should get your tape by the end of the week.Thanks for the tape. Leaving now to go to the game. Club level today. (1/2 price and all.) I still don't buy the trade. I don't go to WhiteSox.com board ever, but I would consider this board to be a pretty good mix of Sox fans, and I don't remember anyone mad at Willie over the collision. In fact, IIRC, Maggs probably should have been the one getting out of the way of Willie. I don't like Willie because he's not good, not because of some collision in May. What I want from him is to learn how to be a good baserunner. I guess I just don't see why they would give up so much to rent a Delgado for 2 months on a million to one chance of a playoff berth - which would be mostly pointless anyway because no one has yet to answer me when I ask what happens if we make the playoffs and have to start facing great pitchers - the kind the Sox can't hit against? But interesting nonetheless. We'll see tomorrow.

Win1ForMe
08-09-2004, 06:47 PM
FWIW, neither Harris or Borchard are in the starting line-up today according to MLB Gamecast (not that we would necessarily expect them to be).

I guess the bright side of this trade guarantees your 2005 Sox starting lineup would be "Joe Borchard and Willie Harris"-free. YAY!

mcfish
08-09-2004, 06:50 PM
FWIW, neither Harris or Borchard are in the starting line-up today according to MLB Gamecast (not that we would necessarily expect them to be).

I guess the bright side of this trade guarantees your 2005 Sox starting lineup would be "Joe Borchard and Willie Harris"-free. YAY!Yeah, but what, we gave up on those two prospects, so we're going to draft 2 new ones? No one actually believes we'll sign Delgado, do they? If they do, bye bye Paulie. Don't you think he would be able to figure that out? How would this trade and the possibility of signing Delgado affect Paulie's play, knowing that he won't have a job here next year? Too many questions would be left by this trade.

Plus, we're trading away the 2 fastest guys we have for another big, slow, power hitting first baseman.

1917
08-09-2004, 07:04 PM
Would Delgado be a rental? I would assume he would...Frank said he plans on coming back....Pauile is signed.....Everett I'm sure will exercise his option....Unless we trade Pauile.....Delgado isn't having that great of a year....alot to give up for a final push, but it will keep the Sox fans interested....Even with him in the lineup is it worth getting rid of these players, especially if he is a rental.....Do you think we can beat the Yankees lineup or the A's pitching? I guess if Maggs can come back....

DickAllen72
08-09-2004, 07:06 PM
Boy, whomever posted this BS on that forum must be laughing her ass off at all the reaction from people who are falling for it.

Yeah, there's really been a backlash against Harris because of that collision. Give me a break! How gullible are you people???

Mohoney
08-09-2004, 07:13 PM
Boy, whomever posted this BS on that forum must be laughing her ass off at all the reaction from people who are falling for it.

Yeah, there's really been a backlash against Harris because of that collision. Give me a break! How gullible are you people???

I have to agree. I can't possibly fathom this being even remotely possible.

Not that I'm calling anyone gullible, but this seems like the most farfetched thing I've heard in a long time.

1917
08-09-2004, 07:19 PM
I'm sure it is BS...but Harris and Borchard are both out of the linup tonight....but I haven't seen a whisper of this anywhere....the guy did seem to have a good argument, but there isn't even a thread about this on the Clubhouse Board....and those guys have The Score and ESPN on 24-7 God love em...but I don't think you can come out with anything by law until it is inked and offical....

DickAllen72
08-09-2004, 07:19 PM
I have to agree. I can't possibly fathom this being even remotely possible.

Not that I'm calling anyone gullible, but this seems like the most farfetched thing I've heard in a long time.

Plus, if you read that thread, the guy who started it only posted there four times. Now, the same guy is claiming the buzz down in Birmingham is that Valentin is going to be their hitting instructor when he retires! LOL!

1917
08-09-2004, 07:37 PM
A guy from Sox.com made a pretty well done post about the Sox getting Delgado for Willie Harris and Joe Borchard.....and with the Jays manager getting fired....had no link or backup but stood by what he had to say....see the talking baseball section for some opinons...this is verrrrrry word of mouth, but Harris and Borchard are out of the lineup tonight....see the Talking Baseball section, but don't kill the messenger if it truely is BS....

Brian26
08-09-2004, 07:40 PM
Well, if he said that about Valentin, that completely ruins any credibility he had.

Still, the rumor is quite interesting.

CanadianSoxFan
08-09-2004, 07:44 PM
Would Harris and LTP have to be put on waivers? And if so, wouldn't someone claim them, being cheap young players with potential?

fquaye149
08-09-2004, 07:46 PM
Would Harris and LTP have to be put on waivers? And if so, wouldn't someone claim them, being cheap young players with potential?
i think toronto's in the AL

DickAllen72
08-09-2004, 07:56 PM
Would Harris and LTP have to be put on waivers? And if so, wouldn't someone claim them, being cheap young players with potential?

Good point.

Another reason why this is obviously bogus is his first post he said Sox are giving up almost nothing--just picking up the rest of Delgado's salary. Then when he's called on being a troll, changes his story to Borchard and Harris. LOL!

RKMeibalane
08-09-2004, 08:12 PM
Where's Lord Vader? We need him to verify or dismiss this rumour. I say this because he dropped some hint about this a few days ago. :?:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Unfortunately, my intelligence operatives have been unable to obtain any conclusive information regarding Carlos Delgado. However, I will inform the WSI community in the event that I learn anything."

Chisoxfn
08-09-2004, 08:34 PM
Here is the post from the "insider" that may help answer some of your questions. BTW...I should get your tape by the end of the week. His logic on Willie is such BS (backlash...what backlash from the collission). Thats one post that really makes it seem like BS. However, the deal does make sense, considering Delgado is as good as gone and the Sox have had interest in him. Plus the fact that Tosca is now gone, Delgado really doesn't have much to stay there for (not that I know whether he really liked Tosca or not).

CWSGuy406
08-09-2004, 09:31 PM
Nevermind - the guy on the boards said it's not gonna happen, the guy who initially posted it.

Sorry for even wasting your time to even look at this thread. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth...

Harris=God
08-09-2004, 10:24 PM
Nevermind - the guy on the boards said it's not gonna happen, the guy who initially posted it.

Sorry for even wasting your time to even look at this thread. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth...
good I wont have to change my username to TIMO=God

DickAllen72
08-09-2004, 11:35 PM
Now can we please concentrate on reacquiring Kenny Lofton while we're still in the race????

gosox41
08-09-2004, 11:42 PM
On the Whitesox.com message boards, a guy is posting that the Sox and Blue Jays are VERY close, or pretty much done on a deal that would send a combination of Enemencio Pachecho/Joe Borchard/Willie Harris to the Blue Jays in exchange for 1B/DH Carlos Delgado.

The ONLY credibility I take from it is that at least the guy put some effort into his posts, like punctuation and spelling - so, IMO, it's not very credible, just saying it seems more credible then someone who just posts a one line thing of the trade.

Here's the link:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-whitesox&msg=32017.1

I usually don't post rumors, but I thought you guys would at least like to see/discuss.
It can't be real. WHy give up 3 prospects for a rental that you're not even going to get FA compensation for?


Bob

Baby Fisk
08-10-2004, 08:47 AM
Nevermind - the guy on the boards said it's not gonna happen, the guy who initially posted it.

Sorry for even wasting your time to even look at this thread. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth...
NO SOUP FOR YOU!

CanadianSoxFan
08-10-2004, 11:24 AM
The guy was obviously full of it when he said Delgado played RF. That proved he was an idiot right there.

mcfish
08-10-2004, 12:37 PM
Now can we please concentrate on reacquiring Kenny Lofton while we're still in the race????We're not still in the race.