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View Full Version : Heard on WEEI Boston Sunday 8/8


Fenway
08-08-2004, 02:54 PM
Sean McAdam was on WEEI's Baseball Show this morning and he was being applauded for correctly saying the White Sox would implode.

He called them a horrible franchise from top to bottom and sees no hope for them under current ownership.

Peter Gammons came on a half hour later and said he almost drove off the road laughing at McAdam's comments on the White Sox.

OEO Magglio
08-08-2004, 03:03 PM
Sean McAdam was on WEEI's Baseball Show this morning and he was being applauded for correctly saying the White Sox would implode.

He called them a horrible franchise from top to bottom and sees no hope for them under current ownership.

Peter Gammons came on a half hour later and said he almost drove off the road laughing at McAdam's comments on the White Sox.Isn't this the same guy who said Nomar was getting traded to the sox?

doublem23
08-08-2004, 03:04 PM
Oh no, we're getting ripped on Boston sports radio? Whatever shall I do?

:rolleyes:

Wealz
08-08-2004, 03:05 PM
Sean McAdam was on WEEI's Baseball Show this morning and he was being applauded for correctly saying the White Sox would implode.

He called them a horrible franchise from top to bottom and sees no hope for them under current ownership.

Peter Gammons came on a half hour later and said he almost drove off the road laughing at McAdam's comments on the White Sox.
This McAdam guy is a regular Nostradamus predicting they'd implode without Thomas and Ordonez.

RKMeibalane
08-08-2004, 03:08 PM
Sean McAdam was on WEEI's Baseball Show this morning and he was being applauded for correctly saying the White Sox would implode.

He called them a horrible franchise from top to bottom and sees no hope for them under current ownership.

Peter Gammons came on a half hour later and said he almost drove off the road laughing at McAdam's comments on the White Sox.
Does this McAdam character want an award for his analysis of the White Sox? They have lost their two best players. A five-year-old could have predicted that they would implode. Honestly, I would hope Red Sox media guys would be more concerned about whether their team can beat the Yankees than they are about the White Sox.

As far as Gammons is concerned, well... everyone knows about him.

jabrch
08-08-2004, 03:21 PM
Heck, Boy Blunder over there has done a wonderful job - failing in every attempt he has made to improve his club this year. Let's make the RedSox our franchise role model for how to win...

JRIG
08-08-2004, 04:44 PM
Heck, Boy Blunder over there has done a wonderful job - failing in every attempt he has made to improve his club this year. Let's make the RedSox our franchise role model for how to win...
Yeah, you're right. If the season ended today, he'd only make the playoffs two years in...um...two years as GM. That's certainly not the kind of success we want.

I know, maybe we should make the Devil Rays our franchise role model. They never make the playoffs, just like us. Their GM is bulletproof, no matter what he does, just like ours. That should be the path we take instead of maybe, possibly, taking some cues from two guys who have made the playoffs (if the season ended today) seven times in their last seven opportunities combined.

jabrch
08-08-2004, 05:05 PM
Jrig, give any one of us BOSTON's payroll and we'd likely make the playoffs at a VERY high rate. None of us would screw up as much as Theo did, failing to make a big trade because he let it get public (A-Rod) alienating their best hitter (Manny), and their best overall player (Nomar), as well as pissing off their top arm (Pedro), as well as a large population of their fans.

Give me the second highest payroll in baseball, and a city with amazing fans and a strong baseball tradition, and I could likely put together a contender in my spare time. So could most people here.

Measuring Epstein in playoff appearances is as statistically significant as measuring SP by wins alone. You know better than that.

Yeah, you're right. If the season ended today, he'd only make the playoffs two years in...um...two years as GM. That's certainly not the kind of success we want.

I know, maybe we should make the Devil Rays our franchise role model. They never make the playoffs, just like us. Their GM is bulletproof, no matter what he does, just like ours. That should be the path we take instead of maybe, possibly, taking some cues from two guys who have made the playoffs (if the season ended today) seven times in their last seven opportunities combined.

doublem23
08-08-2004, 05:07 PM
JRIG, I could get to the play-offs two years in a row inheriting a team with Pedro, Nomar, Manny, Jason Varitek, etc. and that kind of pay-roll.

Huisj
08-08-2004, 05:09 PM
wasn't it gammons who just a month ago or so was saying the white sox were the team to beat? I guess he meant they were the team everyone would beat.

hose
08-08-2004, 05:10 PM
Sean McAdam was on WEEI's Baseball Show this morning and he was being applauded for correctly saying the White Sox would implode.

He called them a horrible franchise from top to bottom and sees no hope for them under current ownership.

Peter Gammons came on a half hour later and said he almost drove off the road laughing at McAdam's comments on the White Sox.

Who is Sean McAdam ? and what does he do?

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 05:10 PM
Jrig, give any one of us BOSTON's payroll and we'd likely make the playoffs at a VERY high rate. None of us would screw up as much as Theo did, failing to make a big trade because he let it get public (A-Rod) alienating their best hitter (Manny), and their best overall player (Nomar), as well as pissing off their top arm (Pedro), as well as a large population of their fans.

Give me the second highest payroll in baseball, and a city with amazing fans and a strong baseball tradition, and I could likely put together a contender in my spare time. So could most people here.

Measuring Epstein in playoff appearances is as statistically significant as measuring SP by wins alone. You know better than that.
Most important: Only one team in the city. They couldn't support a second one. Wonder if they wish they'd kept the Braves?

Fenway
08-08-2004, 05:10 PM
The Red Sox walked away from the A-Rod deal convinced that Hicks would come back 2 months later and make the deal on Boston's terms. The Yankees were not a factor.


Then Aaron Boone played hoops............


But if they had made the deal, we would have A-Rod and Mags ( who wouldn't have been hurt if he was in Boston )

jabrch
08-08-2004, 05:10 PM
JRIG, I could get to the play-offs two years in a row inheriting a team with Pedro, Nomar, Manny, Jason Varitek, etc. and that kind of pay-roll.

DoubleM - not only do I think you could do that, but I think you could do it while maintaining your current job - whatever that is.

doublem23
08-08-2004, 05:14 PM
DoubleM - not only do I think you could do that, but I think you could do it while maintaining your current job - whatever that is.
Unemployment. :cool:

JRIG
08-08-2004, 05:17 PM
Jrig, give any one of us BOSTON's payroll and we'd likely make the playoffs at a VERY high rate. None of us would screw up as much as Theo did, failing to make a big trade because he let it get public (A-Rod) alienating their best hitter (Manny), and their best overall player (Nomar), as well as pissing off their top arm (Pedro), as well as a large population of their fans.

Give me the second highest payroll in baseball, and a city with amazing fans and a strong baseball tradition, and I could likely put together a contender in my spare time. So could most people here.

Measuring Epstein in playoff appearances is as statistically significant as measuring SP by wins alone. You know better than that.
Here's the top payrolls in 2003:

Yankees 152 M
Mets 117 M
Braves 106 M
Dodgers 105 M
Rangers 103 M
Red Sox 99 Mil
Seattle 86 M
St. Louis 83 Mil
SF 82 M
Arizona 80 M

Only 4 of those 10 made the playoffs. Money does not guarantee you a playoff spot.

I guess I'm not sure what would change your mind about these guys. A World Series Championship? Sure that would be great for them, but we're not exactly close to that goal either. If you're going to discount what Beane did because he had the Big 3 and discount what Epstein has done because he has a high payroll, would a even Championship satisfy you? And how can you not penalize KW for for inheriting a team that won 95 games along with the #1 farm system in baseball and taking it nowhere?

I understand we go round and round on this at times, but I do enjoy the discussion. I'm going to slide this over to Talking Baseball, since it's theorhetically about Epstein.

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 05:24 PM
Here's the top payrolls in 2003:

Yankees 152 M
Mets 117 M
Braves 106 M
Dodgers 105 M
Rangers 103 M
Red Sox 99 Mil
Seattle 86 M
St. Louis 83 Mil
SF 82 M
Arizona 80 M

Only 4 of those 10 made the playoffs. Money does not guarantee you a playoff spot.

I guess I'm not sure what would change your mind about these guys. A World Series Championship? Sure that would be great for them, but we're not exactly close to that goal either. If you're going to discount what Beane did because he had the Big 3 and discount what Epstein has done because he has a high payroll, would a even Championship satisfy you? And how can you not penalize KW for for inheriting a team that won 95 games along with the #1 farm system in baseball and taking it nowhere?

I understand we go round and round on this at times, but I do enjoy the discussion. I'm going to slide this over to Talking Baseball, since it's theorhetically about Epstein.
Think of all the moaning and bewailing we're gonna hear out of Beantown over the winter as they bid adieu to some of their beloved non producers.

jeremyb1
08-08-2004, 05:37 PM
Jrig, give any one of us BOSTON's payroll and we'd likely make the playoffs at a VERY high rate. None of us would screw up as much as Theo did, failing to make a big trade because he let it get public (A-Rod) alienating their best hitter (Manny), and their best overall player (Nomar), as well as pissing off their top arm (Pedro), as well as a large population of their fans.

Give me the second highest payroll in baseball, and a city with amazing fans and a strong baseball tradition, and I could likely put together a contender in my spare time. So could most people here.

Measuring Epstein in playoff appearances is as statistically significant as measuring SP by wins alone. You know better than that.

Yeahl, Manny's been terrible after Theo alienated him during the offseason. Furthermore I'd love to hear your interpretation of how making the ARod deal public is somehow related to the union's refusal to allow ARod to restructure his contract to the liking of Boston ownership.

I do agree with you that the Nomar situation was mishandled and Boston does have a far larger payroll than we do. That said, a large payroll is no guarantee of success. Just look at the Dodgers under Kevn Malone. More importantly, if we're evaluating Epstein, it's critical to note that he inherited a disasterous financial situation in Boston. It's pretty easy to argue that he's been far more thrifty and fiscally conservative than KW over the past two seasons despite having nearly twice the payroll.

If you take a look at this year's Boston club, most of the large salaries were in place before Epstein was hired and most of the more reasonable salaries were his acquisitions. He inherited Lowe (4.5 million), Ramirez (20.5 million), Garciaparra (11.5 million), Wakefield (4.3 million), Varitek (6.9 million), and Damon (8 million), and Pedro (17.5 million). That's over 73 million of the team's budget that Epstein hasn't touched as GM, leaving only about 50 million (less than KW's budet of 67 million) to work with. Epstein acquired, resigned, or went to arbitration with only Nixon (4.5 million), Foulke (3.5 million, an average of 7 million I believe), Schilling (a steal at 12 million), Timlin (2.5 million), Williamson (3.2 million), Bellhorn (.5 million), Pokey Reese (1 million), Mueller (2.1 million), Ortiz (4.5 million), and Millar (3.3 million).

Win1ForMe
08-08-2004, 08:18 PM
If you take a look at this year's Boston club, most of the large salaries were in place before Epstein was hired and most of the more reasonable salaries were his acquisitions.
So what? You're acting as if those salaries are somehow burdens on the club and the players signed by the previous regime are not performing.

That's over 73 million of the team's budget that Epstein hasn't touched as GM, leaving only about 50 million (less than KW's budet of 67 million) to work with.
Yeah, poor Theo. He had to budget $50 million on filling out *half* the team to compliment 3 superstar players, whereas Kenny has to budget $67 million on the *entire* team. Pedro, Nomar, Damon, Varitek, Wakefield, and Manny really had nothing to do with the team's success. What an achievement by Theo and what a ridiculous post.

TornLabrum
08-08-2004, 08:43 PM
Here's the top payrolls in 2003:

Yankees 152 M
Mets 117 M
Braves 106 M
Dodgers 105 M
Rangers 103 M
Red Sox 99 Mil
Seattle 86 M
St. Louis 83 Mil
SF 82 M
Arizona 80 M

Only 4 of those 10 made the playoffs. Money does not guarantee you a playoff spot.
Of course that's half the playoff spots, so I guess it gives the 10 rich teams a 50-50 shot and the other 20 teans a 50-50 shot. Which group has better odds?

Man Soo Lee
08-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Schilling (a steal at 12 million) Schilling:
ERA- 3.38, WHIP- 1.13, K/9- 7.97, 14 HR in 154.2 IP

Garcia:
ERA- 3.37, WHIP- 1.15, K/9- 7.40, 15 HR in 163 IP

(Yes, I know Schilling has been better and more consistent in previous years. I also know Garcia is ten years younger and healthier.)

Whitesox029
08-10-2004, 11:23 AM
Honestly, I would hope Red Sox media guys would be more concerned about whether their team can beat the Yankees than they are about the White Sox.
Especially considering that...well...they can't beat the Yankees.

I predict the implosion of the Red Sox with the loss of Garciaparra.

MRKARNO
08-10-2004, 11:51 AM
Schilling:
ERA- 3.38, WHIP- 1.13, K/9- 7.97, 14 HR in 154.2 IP

Garcia:
ERA- 3.37, WHIP- 1.15, K/9- 7.40, 15 HR in 163 IP

(Yes, I know Schilling has been better and more consistent in previous years. I also know Garcia is ten years younger and healthier.)
Only worrying factor for Garcia is the significantly higher home run rate with the White Sox, but has been allowing more homers and less runs in the park lately, plus that number is a bit inflated because of the anomoly 3 HRs given up in that one start in Minneapolis. I think over their current contracts that they'll probably be even except that Schilling might fall off a bit with age.