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View Full Version : Will the Sox start dumping players?


StillMissOzzie
08-08-2004, 02:23 AM
As much as I hate to throw in the towel, reality is starting to set in. Does anyone else think that the Sox will be sellers in the waiver deals that are made in August in order for the player to be eligible for post-season play? And if so, who will be on the block?

SMO
:angry: :whiner:

soltrain21
08-08-2004, 02:35 AM
As much as I hate to throw in the towel, reality is starting to set in. Does anyone else think that the Sox will be sellers in the waiver deals that are made in August in order for the player to be eligible for post-season play? And if so, who will be on the block?

SMO
:angry: :whiner:

I think it would be easier to name players who WONT be moved.

Buerhle, Garcia, Jose C, Shingo, Damaso, Rowand.

Other than that....I have no problem moving anyone.

RichFitztightly
08-08-2004, 02:42 AM
I think it would be easier to name players who WONT be moved.

Buerhle, Garcia, Jose C, Shingo, Damaso, Rowand.

Other than that....I have no problem moving anyone.
I don't have a problem either. But they won't move anybody cause they are stupid!!!

(By the way it took me about a half an hour to type that out b/c I'm hammered)

soltrain21
08-08-2004, 02:52 AM
I don't have a problem either. But they won't move anybody cause they are stupid!!!

(By the way it took me about a half an hour to type that out b/c I'm hammered)
Drink up, buddy. You have every right to be plowed.

MisterB
08-08-2004, 04:51 AM
As much as I hate to throw in the towel, reality is starting to set in. Does anyone else think that the Sox will be sellers in the waiver deals that are made in August in order for the player to be eligible for post-season play? And if so, who will be on the block?

SMO
:angry: :whiner:I for one hope the Sox don't move anybody before the deadline that we have the rights to for next season. I'd prefer KW holds off until the offseason when he has a better chance at getting useful ML players to retool the team instead of just getting prospects and starting the next 'five-year plan'. The only player that really fits that description is Valentin, but I don't know any contending teams that really need an error-prone, one-dimensional shortstop.

gosox41
08-08-2004, 07:58 AM
As much as I hate to throw in the towel, reality is starting to set in. Does anyone else think that the Sox will be sellers in the waiver deals that are made in August in order for the player to be eligible for post-season play? And if so, who will be on the block?

SMO
:angry: :whiner:
They better be. It may a good opportunity to get some talent in return for a team that still thinks it's got a chance to win. KW can actually take advantage of this situation if he's smart. I'd trade guys like PK and LEe from the offense since most playoff contending teams will want proven fofense. I'd also look to move Rowand (sell high) or Crede (getting sick of him). Bullpen wise, everyone can go. Politte has to have some value. Same with Marte. I would also look to trade Garland.

I don't think the Sox should give these guys away. But they should only trade these guys if a team is looking to give up some good talent if they want to win. Thee's nothing wrong with getting a couple of type A prospects thast are major league ready for a guy ike PK or Lee. Lord knows we have enough holes. Get a way to fill one or 2 of them and then free up some mney for next year top sign more free agents.


I hope KW sees the lgiht about this team. Frank's not coming back. It's doubtful Magglio will. The team is playing awful. They're not making the playoffs this year.



Bob

Jjav829
08-08-2004, 08:12 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Kenny do both. If he can move a guy like Jose, one of Paulie or Lee, maybe even Politte, he should look into it. But at the same point, I like what the Padres did last year. They were well out of the playoff chase but they went out and got Brian Giles. Why wait until the offseason to try to build your team for next year? If you can get a guy through waivers that is under contract for a few years and that you think will help your team next year, do so. Jason Kendall would be one guy that comes to mind.

Viva Magglio
08-08-2004, 08:13 AM
I have no problem moving...

:LTP:manos:crede, et al.

samram
08-08-2004, 09:10 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Kenny do both. If he can move a guy like Jose, one of Paulie or Lee, maybe even Politte, he should look into it. But at the same point, I like what the Padres did last year. They were well out of the playoff chase but they went out and got Brian Giles. Why wait until the offseason to try to build your team for next year? If you can get a guy through waivers that is under contract for a few years and that you think will help your team next year, do so. Jason Kendall would be one guy that comes to mind.
Well, remember that San Diego gave up Jason Bay and Oliver Perez, prospects who were more highly regarded than anyone the Sox have right now, and a steep price to pay. Not to mention, I don't know any other big names who are going to be out there anyway.

Jjav829
08-08-2004, 09:15 AM
Well, remember that San Diego gave up Jason Bay and Oliver Perez, prospects who were more highly regarded than anyone the Sox have right now, and a steep price to pay. Not to mention, I don't know any other big names who are going to be out there anyway.
They did. Plus their situation was a bit different. They were getting ready to move into a new ballpark and they wanted to acquire a big name player to help boost ticket sales and give people someone to come see. But I still believe that if you can find someone available that will help your team next year, why bother waiting until the offseason? Go get them now and improve your team for both this year and next year.

samram
08-08-2004, 09:16 AM
They better be. It may a good opportunity to get some talent in return for a team that still thinks it's got a chance to win. KW can actually take advantage of this situation if he's smart. I'd trade guys like PK and LEe from the offense since most playoff contending teams will want proven fofense. I'd also look to move Rowand (sell high) or Crede (getting sick of him). Bullpen wise, everyone can go. Politte has to have some value. Same with Marte. I would also look to trade Garland.

I don't think the Sox should give these guys away. But they should only trade these guys if a team is looking to give up some good talent if they want to win. Thee's nothing wrong with getting a couple of type A prospects thast are major league ready for a guy ike PK or Lee. Lord knows we have enough holes. Get a way to fill one or 2 of them and then free up some mney for next year top sign more free agents.


I hope KW sees the lgiht about this team. Frank's not coming back. It's doubtful Magglio will. The team is playing awful. They're not making the playoffs this year.



Bob
I have no problem with this either, except for Marte- there's no reason to trade a cheap left-handed set-up man if the team wants to contend next year- he would be tough to replace. I think you're right though, that PK and Lee may bring some decent players. Frankly, I wish the Sox could have waved PK in front of the Yankees because I think they would rather have him instead of Olerud, and I think Boston would rather have had him than Mientkiewicz, and I think LA would rather have had him than Choi, etc. But at the time, those teams had needs, the Sox were still contending.

samram
08-08-2004, 09:21 AM
They did. Plus their situation was a bit different. They were getting ready to move into a new ballpark and they wanted to acquire a big name player to help boost ticket sales and give people someone to come see. But I still believe that if you can find someone available that will help your team next year, why bother waiting until the offseason? Go get them now and improve your team for both this year and next year.
I agree with you, and Kendall would be a great addition. It's really more of what the Sox can give up- would Pittsburgh take a deal for Kendall (if he agreed to come to the Sox) that didn't include Rowand, and would the Sox be willing to do that?

ChiSoxBobette
08-08-2004, 09:31 AM
I think it would be easier to name players who WONT be moved.

Buerhle, Garcia, Jose C, Shingo, Damaso, Rowand.

Other than that....I have no problem moving anyone.
I would think you would also have to keep C.Lee and Paul Konerko at least one of those two because we're probably not going to have Maggs and /or Frank Thomas next year.

hose
08-08-2004, 09:54 AM
I think it would be easier to name players who WONT be moved.

Buerhle, Garcia, Jose C, Shingo, Damaso, Rowand.

Other than that....I have no problem moving anyone.

With Thomas saying he is coming back next year I think now is the time to move either Konerko or Carlos Lee.

Konerko's trade value has to be at it's peak. I wonder if Houston would be interested in Valentin since Everett went down with a injury? How about Texas trading for Jon Garland? The Rangers need pitching. The Yankees are interested in a left hander out of the pen , move Schoenweis once he gets off the DL for whatever the Yankees will give.

Kogs35
08-08-2004, 10:34 AM
With Thomas saying he is coming back next year I think now is the time to move either Konerko or Carlos Lee.

Konerko's trade value has to be at it's peak. I wonder if Houston would be interested in Valentin since Everett went down with a injury? How about Texas trading for Jon Garland? The Rangers need pitching. The Yankees are interested in a left hander out of the pen , move Schoenweis once he gets off the DL for whatever the Yankees will give.
kw tried that at the non waiver deadline but the yankees backed off cause they where afriad shoeny would not be happy there. we would of gotten scott proctor.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2004, 10:47 AM
As I stated (several times) following the Olivio/Garcia trade, you have to break some eggs to make an omelette.
:cool:

If the Sox keep losing in pathetic fashion like they have ever since the offense lost its two main cogs, then fixing the problem has to include giving up ballplayers that other teams want to get in trade. We all agree (most agree?) our weakest positions are 2B, 3B, C, and SS and an upgrade needs to be accomplished. However none of the garbage piles we have at those positions (save perhaps Valentin) will bring us jack in trade.

This means either Konerko or Lee must be available for trade. I might toss Garland into that mix, too. Yes, they're valuable players and that's precisely why we probably need to trade one or more of them. Nobody will give you **** if you're only offering **** in return.

The next 6 weeks is basically extended spring training. Is Borchard worth keeping? Is Uribe any sort of everyday solution? Is Contreras an upgrade over the post-career-year Esteban Loaiza? Will Jon Garland ever pull his head out of his ass?

Come November and the free agent sweepstakes, we'll know a lot more about what needs to be done. Now if Kenny can only make it happen...

:reinsy
"Umm... more like what I'll let him make happen..."

mdep524
08-08-2004, 10:48 AM
I would think you would also have to keep C.Lee and Paul Konerko at least one of those two because we're probably not going to have Maggs and /or Frank Thomas next year.No! Please, no!!! Let the CLee/Konerko era of Chicago White Sox baseball end!!

It sounds harsh because both players are putting up very good numbers this season, but we're just not going to WIN BASEBALL GAMES with these guys! Both players have high trade value right now, if KW plays his cards right he could get quite a nice haul in some offseason trades.

Of course, I am worried KW will not play his cards right. Instead of quietly seeing what is available, I fear he will be so disappointed in this team that he will rashly and pubilcly declare his desire to change this team as much as possible, thus lowering his leverage and leaving him with crap in trades.

:KW
Before we begin negotiations I must tell you that I am desperate to unload these players and change this team and will take anything you offer.
<Pause> OK, so let's do this.

gosox41
08-08-2004, 11:50 AM
I have no problem with this either, except for Marte- there's no reason to trade a cheap left-handed set-up man if the team wants to contend next year- he would be tough to replace. I think you're right though, that PK and Lee may bring some decent players. Frankly, I wish the Sox could have waved PK in front of the Yankees because I think they would rather have him instead of Olerud, and I think Boston would rather have had him than Mientkiewicz, and I think LA would rather have had him than Choi, etc. But at the time, those teams had needs, the Sox were still contending.
Marte has been good for us and I wouldn't just give him away. But I would trade him if it filled another hole. It's the same logic when the Sox traded away Bradford. They gave up a middle reliver for an everyday player.

If the Sox can do the same then they should. If they can't then I have no problem holding Marte.


Bob

JB98
08-08-2004, 11:54 AM
I just can't disagree with you guys more. You can't trade Konerko or Lee. Ordonez and Valentin will not be back. Who knows whether Frank will be healthy? We all remember he struggled mightily in 2002 after missing significant time in 2001. You need someone to hit HRs, and Konerko and Lee are proven power producers.

Look, if you guys think we are going to win with a bunch of slap hitters, go watch the Brewers. I don't see them anywhere near the playoffs, and it's because they don't have anybody who can hit the ball out of the park. You can't just unload all your power hitters as a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we don't have a balanced offense this year.

I think with Thomas, Lee, Konerko and Everett back next year, you have a solid middle of the order. Now, you go out and get your table-setters in the offseason. We have holes at 2B, SS, C and 3B. I think we can trade Garland and Crede, or maybe Cotts to get some speed and defense in those spots. They don't have to be big names. Just get people who are solid. Some of you are so eager to tear apart the core in the wake of this losing streak. Some of the core is going to leave of its own accord this offseason. Someone is going to have to explain to me why Lee and Konerko have suddenly become part of the problem. Paul is having his best and most consistent season this year. Lee is streaky as always, but I still think we've yet to see the best of him.

RKMeibalane
08-08-2004, 12:03 PM
I would think you would also have to keep C.Lee and Paul Konerko at least one of those two because we're probably not going to have Maggs and /or Frank Thomas next year.
Frank will definitely be back.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2004, 12:25 PM
I just can't disagree with you guys more. You can't trade Konerko or Lee. ..... Someone is going to have to explain to me why Lee and Konerko have suddenly become part of the problem.... Paul is having his best and most consistent season this year. Lee is streaky as always, but I still think we've yet to see the best of him.I'm sure you didn't intend it, but you answered your own question. I'm sure you've been keeping up on current events, so please note the Sox are LOSING while Lee and Konerko are both having very good seasons. They *don't* make the winning difference.

Neither Lee or Konerko can replace Frank or Maggs. That's what we're learning loss after loss the past two weeks. Let's stop living the fantasy world Hawk and the rest of the Sox brass would want us to believe, okay?

The simple fact both Lee and Konerko are having good seasons is precisely why we need to at least consider trading them. We can't fill the roster holes on this team without giving up quality and these guys will never be more valuable for serving this purpose.

Sure, if we were winning with Konerko and Lee, I could see your point about holding them. However if we're going to lose with them or without them (and that's the point we've learned the past two weeks), then we at least have to consider offers -- especially those that fill pressing needs that won't be filled by any other means available to the Sox.

Jurr
08-08-2004, 12:25 PM
They better be. It may a good opportunity to get some talent in return for a team that still thinks it's got a chance to win. KW can actually take advantage of this situation if he's smart. I'd trade guys like PK and LEe from the offense since most playoff contending teams will want proven fofense. I'd also look to move Rowand (sell high) or Crede (getting sick of him). Bullpen wise, everyone can go. Politte has to have some value. Same with Marte. I would also look to trade Garland.

I don't think the Sox should give these guys away. But they should only trade these guys if a team is looking to give up some good talent if they want to win. Thee's nothing wrong with getting a couple of type A prospects thast are major league ready for a guy ike PK or Lee. Lord knows we have enough holes. Get a way to fill one or 2 of them and then free up some mney for next year top sign more free agents.


I hope KW sees the lgiht about this team. Frank's not coming back. It's doubtful Magglio will. The team is playing awful. They're not making the playoffs this year.



Bob
Way to think right in front of your feet. Boo hooo...they suck this year. Let's eliminate the entire team because we're upset that things didn't go quite as well as planned. This is a good team, and they'd be smoking hot this time of year if they had the heart of their lineup.
I know it's easy to get frustrated right now, but a moment of removing one's head from his ass could see that this team can do some damage if they get rid of a couple of trouble spots (Jose) and let the team learn on the job.
I'm tired of the ignorance of so-called fans that think they know what the hell's going on. Someone makes 3,000 posts on here, you'd think had some kind of clue. Pitiful

JRIG
08-08-2004, 12:31 PM
Way to think right in front of your feet. Boo hooo...they suck this year. Let's eliminate the entire team because we're upset that things didn't go quite as well as planned. This is a good team, and they'd be smoking hot this time of year if they had the heart of their lineup.
I know it's easy to get frustrated right now, but a moment of removing one's head from his ass could see that this team can do some damage if they get rid of a couple of trouble spots (Jose) and let the team learn on the job.
I'm tired of the ignorance of so-called fans that think they know what the hell's going on. Someone makes 3,000 posts on here, you'd think had some kind of clue. Pitiful
This is the same lineup we had last year, minus Olivo, a total ace (last year) in Loaiza and a good bullpen. Plus Freddie Garcia. And Jose Contreras. And you're confident this team would be "smoking hot" right now if Frank and Mags were healthy. Hey, things would certainly be better, but there's no way we'd be that far up on the Twins right now with the way they've been playing. It'd be another dogfight, ironically enough, just like last year.

mdep524
08-08-2004, 01:37 PM
I just can't disagree with you guys more. You can't trade Konerko or Lee. Ordonez and Valentin will not be back. Who knows whether Frank will be healthy? We all remember he struggled mightily in 2002 after missing significant time in 2001. You need someone to hit HRs, and Konerko and Lee are proven power producers.

Look, if you guys think we are going to win with a bunch of slap hitters, go watch the Brewers. I don't see them anywhere near the playoffs, and it's because they don't have anybody who can hit the ball out of the park. You can't just unload all your power hitters as a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we don't have a balanced offense this year.

I think with Thomas, Lee, Konerko and Everett back next year, you have a solid middle of the order. Now, you go out and get your table-setters in the offseason. We have holes at 2B, SS, C and 3B. I think we can trade Garland and Crede, or maybe Cotts to get some speed and defense in those spots. They don't have to be big names. Just get people who are solid. Some of you are so eager to tear apart the core in the wake of this losing streak. Some of the core is going to leave of its own accord this offseason. Someone is going to have to explain to me why Lee and Konerko have suddenly become part of the problem. Paul is having his best and most consistent season this year. Lee is streaky as always, but I still think we've yet to see the best of him.
You're missing the bigger point- it's not because of *this* losing streak that we want to tear this team apart... it's because of the overall theme of losing FOR 4 YEARS NOW (plus the 2000 playoffs). This is not some isolated incident. After 4+ years of the *same* core players and the same disappointing, underacheiving results, a change is waranted.

Jurr
08-08-2004, 05:53 PM
This is the same lineup we had last year, minus Olivo, a total ace (last year) in Loaiza and a good bullpen. Plus Freddie Garcia. And Jose Contreras. And you're confident this team would be "smoking hot" right now if Frank and Mags were healthy. Hey, things would certainly be better, but there's no way we'd be that far up on the Twins right now with the way they've been playing. It'd be another dogfight, ironically enough, just like last year.
The thing is, and it may be overstated, that the Sox have had a helluva lot more fight this year than last. They believed that they had the talent to win this thing in the first half of the year, and that showed by all of the come from behind wins. I think Ozzie has had a lot to do with that. It shouldn't be understated that these Spanish speaking managers can do some good things, because they can communicate with everyone equally.

Now, the next thing someone will say is..."Where is all of that fight now??"
Well, when you don't have quite the talent you had earlier, it's a little harder to be confident you're going to pull 'em out. Now, maybe a couple of clutch wins like today will bring that good vibe back. That remains to be seen.

gosox41
08-09-2004, 11:04 AM
Way to think right in front of your feet. Boo hooo...they suck this year. Let's eliminate the entire team because we're upset that things didn't go quite as well as planned. This is a good team, and they'd be smoking hot this time of year if they had the heart of their lineup.
I know it's easy to get frustrated right now, but a moment of removing one's head from his ass could see that this team can do some damage if they get rid of a couple of trouble spots (Jose) and let the team learn on the job.
I'm tired of the ignorance of so-called fans that think they know what the hell's going on. Someone makes 3,000 posts on here, you'd think had some kind of clue. Pitiful
This is a decent to good team with Frank and Magglio in the line up depending on who is hot. Look at the statistics of the Sox offense.

But if this team is so good, why aren't they winning? And if this team was so good last year with a healthy Frank and Magglio, why didn't they win then? Isn't a 162 game marathon enough time to see the cream rise to the top? Are we the proverbial 'cream' or are we the coffee grinds sitting on the bottom.

The fact is if this team was good they would have won the division last year and wouldn't have gone from a tie of first place to 6 games out in less then 2 weeks. GOod teams don't do that. Frank and Magglio mask the holeso n this team very well. Can you identify the holes? It's more then just a SS with 103K's and a .296 OBP.


Bob