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View Full Version : When will this end?


soxwon
08-07-2004, 11:16 PM
this is very very bad, will we snap out of it?
when?
someone please promise me, this will end!!!

it looked like a big win then boom, we are the UNLUCKIEST team EVER!!!

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 11:16 PM
October 3

MRKARNO
08-07-2004, 11:26 PM
The day the Twins clinch the division and we are force fed their champagne celebration in their clubhouse

Whitesox029
08-08-2004, 01:36 AM
this is very very badand the Understatement-of-the-Year Award goes to......

voodoochile
08-08-2004, 01:47 AM
Make the bad men stop hurting me Mommy...:D:

Lip Man 1
08-08-2004, 02:24 AM
Well it hasn't ended for 86 years now has it? Better get used to it...

Lip

RichFitztightly
08-08-2004, 03:47 AM
Honestly I hope they don't win another game. They don't deserve to.

OurBitchinMinny
08-08-2004, 04:28 AM
Time to hop on the cards bandwagon. Heres hoping the sox hold off the royals for 4th.:gulp:

samram
08-08-2004, 04:36 AM
Time to hop on the cards bandwagon. Heres hoping the sox hold off the royals for 4th.:gulp:
I'm on the Dodgers bandwagon, since they're my second favorite team, and are helping me to keep my baseball sanity for now. As for the Sox finishing fourth, I don't care, everything other than first or the WC is the same.

Sad
08-08-2004, 09:29 AM
WE GONE! :mad:

TornLabrum
08-08-2004, 09:35 AM
Honestly I hope they don't win another game. They don't deserve to.
Hey! I still have a half-dozen or so games left in my ticket plan!

rockfordsox
08-08-2004, 09:45 AM
this is very very bad, will we snap out of it?
when?
someone please promise me, this will end!!!

it looked like a big win then boom, we are the UNLUCKIEST team EVER!!!
It will end Oct 3. It is hard to believe that just 2 weeks ago we were in first place fans were beeping their car horns from the parking lots to the Dan Ryan after Crede's walk off home run. Then comes the twins sure we got swept but we swept them and they came back. something is missing besides Frank and Mags.

ode to veeck
08-08-2004, 10:55 AM
It just keeps getting worse, having Shingo getting hammered yesterday was a new element to the continued unraveling of the White Sox machine, now dropping to 3rd place all by themselves ....

starboy0
08-08-2004, 11:01 AM
It will end Oct 3. It is hard to believe that just 2 weeks ago we were in first place fans were beeping their car horns from the parking lots to the Dan Ryan after Crede's walk off home run. Then comes the twins sure we got swept but we swept them and they came back. something is missing besides Frank and Mags.

Within a few days of being swept by the Twins I heard Hawk on the radio saying "the Sox had lost their swagger." The man is right.

The Saturday night game with Detroit was the end of it. Crede's walk off HR put us back in first. Sure we missed Frank and Maggs but we had been without them for awhile.

I was at the following Sunday game against Detroit and Monday's and Wednesday's game against Minnesota. All three made me sick. Sunday we looked flat and gave the game to them. Monday they flat out beat us. Good situational hitting and took our catcher out. And we just let them. Wednesday had a chance to win but sloppy play made us look like a single-A team.

No Frank and Maggs but we were throwing games away left and right. I agree with you 100%. There is something missing besides Frank and Maggs. It's that winning attititude, that swagger, that "we're the best and gonna win this thing."

The combination of losing the heart of your order, sloppy play, and plain bad luck have conspired to rob the Sox of their swagger.

Clarkdog
08-08-2004, 11:19 AM
Say what you want about the perceived impact of the Torii Hunter collision, but that loss was at the beginning of this slide. Sure losing Maggs and Frank have been tough (and likely too much to overcome), but that game and that play took the "swagger" that Hawk has mentioned away from this team. While I'm of the opinion that the Sox should have stepped up the next day with hard play of thier own as opposed to a cheap shot (a little difficult when you're being two-hit by Johan Santana). Guillen's response (or lack thereof) has likely resulted in him losing a measure of respect from the ballclub.

Gimm
08-08-2004, 11:28 AM
this is very very bad, will we snap out of it?
when?
someone please promise me, this will end!!!

it looked like a big win then boom, we are the UNLUCKIEST team EVER!!!
I still think Sox are 2 relatively cheap line-up upgrades away from winning the division, but I'll tell yo this much: if Silva beats Mulder today and/or Elarton beats Contreras, that would probably be it for us.

bluestar
08-08-2004, 11:42 AM
I think this has been like a set of dominoes falling. It did begin with that first game against Minnesota. I don't think it was necessarily Hunter running over Burke, but that added an exclamation point to it. Here were the Sox losing to the Twins in a game that was very winnable. Then they face Santana the next night and are completely shut down. Once the team lost their confidence in themselves, it all started to unravel. If they had managed to salvage that third game in the series, we might possibly be looking at a completely different situation today.

I agree that losing the #3 and #4 hitters would be devastating for any team, but this division is weak enough that the Sox should still be able to compete without Maggs and Frank. But they seem to have quit on themselves, and it even looks like Ozzie has quit on them as well, which I find very disappointing.

Right now they look like the worst team in baseball. I don't expect them to win very many more games this season. I'll be surprised if they make it to 70 wins now. This isn't just a "slump." This is a total meltdown.

oldcomiskey
08-08-2004, 12:09 PM
unlucky dont begin to cover it--bad fundamentals is about right. Why blame ozzie because the Twins spanked our asses. He cant help it if Manuel didnt teach these guys jack about how to play the game. But to answer your question, all this will end when we stop having a good collection of players and start having a team

PaleHoseGeorge
08-08-2004, 12:20 PM
Say what you want about the perceived impact of the Torii Hunter collision, but that loss was at the beginning of this slide. Sure losing Maggs and Frank have been tough (and likely too much to overcome), but that game and that play took the "swagger" that Hawk has mentioned away from this team. While I'm of the opinion that the Sox should have stepped up the next day with hard play of thier own as opposed to a cheap shot (a little difficult when you're being two-hit by Johan Santana). Guillen's response (or lack thereof) has likely resulted in him losing a measure of respect from the ballclub.
Please don't take offense, but I couldn't disagree more. Losing Frank and Maggs cut the heart out of our offense. We lost those games to the Twins (and all the other ones, too) because we can't score runs! Torii Hunter's tackle made the difference in exactly one loss.

Nobody should expect to win ballgames when their offense can only score 2-3 runs. Torii's tackle wouldn't have meant **** if Frank and Maggs were still the two cogs square in the middle of our offensive attack, not Lee or Konehead.

As for what Hawk has to say, it's worthless bull****. He is only good for telling us what Reinsdorf is thinking, nothing more.

Gimm
08-08-2004, 12:23 PM
I think this has been like a set of dominoes falling. It did begin with that first game against Minnesota.This began in late May when Willie and Magglio collided in the 8th inning of a blow-out in Cleveland. Lost Maggs and Willie claims his ankle has been bothering him since.

This began with yet another miscommunication between Thomas and the team doctors and/or misdiagnosis on their part of his foot problem before he even had a chance to make it much worse in Florida. If he'd been shut down in early June with a much smaller fracture, he'd be ready to come back by mid-late August.

This began when Sox couldn't get a big-time bat at the deadline to replace one of Thomas/Maggs - offense was already stinking it up going back to the 2-4 Florida-Montreal road trip.

This began when lil' ol' rejuvenated 2-hole spark-plug Robbie Alomar didn't join the team until AFTER Sox lost 9 games of 11
(5 by one-run margin and 2 more by two-run margin) to Minnesota without Mauer, Detroit without I-Rod and Kansas City without Sweeney. This small non-move is as big an indictment of our indecisive/incompetent management as anything else.

Sox were fools to do nothingabout the offense when the team was 2 games up and was beating up on Minnesota without Frank and Magglio in June. They were fools to do nothing when the Sox were 1/2 game up after Crede's walk-off homer in Detroit and it was clear Magg/Frank aren't coming back any time soon. They were fools to do nothing after all the holes in the line-up were by Radke and Silva during the USCF sweep which pushed us back by 2 1/2 games. And by Ledesma, Bonderman and Maroth a few days later, a feat that pushed us back to 5 out.

I mean seriously....*** were Sox brass thinking in latter June and all of July?! Did they think Loaiza, Contreras, Garland, Buerhle, Diaz, Schoeneweis and Garcia are SO good they don't need good run support??? Or that Shingo and Marte can be inactive for 4-5 days on end because the team can't win and then be expected to be super-crisp in do-or-die situations? Did they honestly believe Borchard, Sandy, Crede, Timo, Gload and even struggling Uribe, Valentin and Harris were enough????

I am asking because I would like to know whether it was management's incompetence or ownership's greed that's too blame for, well, whatever the hell it is we've been watching in pure HORROR in the last 2 weeks.....My theory is it was probably a bit of both.


...

KingXerxes
08-08-2004, 12:33 PM
As for what Hawk has to say, it's worthless bull****. He is only good for telling us what Reinsdorf is thinking, nothing more.

Amen to that.

Losing Ordonez and Thomas killed the White Sox offense - no doubt, but that is a symptom of what's wrong with this team. The problem is a total lack of depth. You can't replace those two guys, but you shouldn't become totally shut down either.

When Williams is out there saying that this roster - even given the injuries - still has enough talent to win the division, I've got to start wondering if:

A. He really believes it (which would be a very bad sign)

or

B. He's being told to say it (most likely)

The fact that he was inquiring about Walker and/or Delgado should be proof to anybody that he doesn't think this team has what it takes. Why the doublespeak?

Gimm
08-08-2004, 12:39 PM
As for what Hawk has to say, it's worthless bull****. He is only good for telling us what Reinsdorf is thinking, nothing more.We didn't lose the "swagger" after that cheap shot at Burke.

We didn't have that "swagger" when we got almost no-hit by Wasdin. We didn't have the swagger when we couldn't touch AJ Burnett who was pumping fastball after fastball middle of the plate. We didn't have the swagger when Lackey stuck it up our behinds. We didn't have the swagger when Ledesma and Bonderman embarassed us twice each in the span of 6 days. We didn't have the swagger when we can't score a run to save our ****ing lives until the middle-late innings after Garland put the team in a 2-0/3-0 hole after holding the other team scoreless for 3-4 innings. We didn't have the swagger Glendon Rusch looks like a 1st-ballot HOF'er by throwing 88mph BP only to have it pop-up or rolled-over by our awesome sluggers. Or when we made mediocre relievers look like Gagne. We didn't have the swagger when Loaiza and Schoeneweiss became 6.00 ERA pitchers when June rolled around and continued to suck in July and August. We didn't have the swagger when Willie was faking bunts going into 0-1/0-2/1-2 holes in every at bat. We didn't have the swagger when Valentin and Uribe were swinging at everything from their heels, something that caused these two key contributers' OPS to plummet in July. We didn't have the swagger when Borchard and Crede were swinging through 90 mph thigh-high fastballs and couldn't lay off breaking balls in the dirt. We didn't have that swagger when we turned to a couple of one-dimensional 650 OPS'ers, Gload and Timo, for help. We didn't have that swagger when our owners were too damn cheap to find Frank's replacement in the line-up once the stress fracture was diagnosed. We didn't have the swagger when Cotts and Jackson were put into critical situations time and time again despite their general horrid-ness.

Feel free to continue this as I am sure I left quite a few things out.:bandance:

Clarkdog
08-08-2004, 03:14 PM
Please don't take offense, but I couldn't disagree more. Losing Frank and Maggs cut the heart out of our offense. We lost those games to the Twins (and all the other ones, too) because we can't score runs! Torii Hunter's tackle made the difference in exactly one loss.
George, I would never take offense. I'm glad we have this forum so that we can debate.

But we'll have to disagree. This team had won three straight and put itself back in first place without Thomas or Ordonez. They believed in themselves. That Twins game took away whatever mojo they had.

Gimm makes good points about times in the season where the Sox looked dead. And I'm not disputing that the loss of Thomas or Ordonez has exposed the lack of depth this team has. But they still believed.

This team taking the field stopped believing in itself on July 26. That day was the end of the 2004 season.

If the Sox somehow comeback (and I'll continue to pray and pull for that) I will happily eat my hat. But I'm more fully prepared for another two months of sloppy, selfish and heartless baseball.

Fenway
08-08-2004, 03:33 PM
I am sure you will get healthy the next 2 weekends when you play the Red Sox...we have a way of waking up teams