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View Full Version : Walker and Delgado both said no to the White Sox


MRKARNO
08-07-2004, 09:28 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040807soxsep,1,1045415.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Sounds as if KW tried his best to get Delgado and Walker, but both refused to lift their no-trade clause to come to the White Sox.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 09:31 PM
This isn't surprising. KW has been trying his best to make this team better. The blame for this mess lies with Reinsdorf's refusal to increase payroll. If he had been more willing to spend money, the Sox might not have so many holes right now. The loss of Thomas and Ordonez to injuries has completely destroyed this team.

Memo to other GM's: do not build your entire team around two players. Spend money and find good players for every position, as well as interchangable parts and players who can come off the bench. In other words, don't do what the Sox did.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 09:34 PM
This isn't surprising. KW has been trying his best to make this team better. The blame for this mess lies with Reinsdorf's refusal to increase payroll. If he had been more willing to spend money, the Sox might not have so many holes right now. The loss of Thomas and Ordonez to injuries has completely destroyed this team.

Memo to other GM's: do not build your entire team around two players. Spend money and find good players for every position, as well as interchangable parts and players who can come off the bench. In other words, don't do what the Sox did.
Delgado and Walker cost hefty money. Get off the JR thumping and leave him alone. Do you realize Walker would've cost us 17.9 mil for this year and next? Talk from your head, not your ass.

LASOXFAN
08-07-2004, 09:40 PM
Even though I think he should be let go, I love Kenny Williams. God knows he tries.

Aidan
08-07-2004, 09:42 PM
Delgado and Walker cost hefty money. Get off the JR thumping and leave him alone. Do you realize Walker would've cost us 17.9 mil for this year and next? Talk from your head, not your ass.The Cardinals got the Rockies to pay $9 million of Larry Walker's contract. The Cards will owe Walker around $9 million for the rest of this season and all of next season. Talk from your head, not your ass.

michned
08-07-2004, 09:45 PM
Delgado and Walker cost hefty money. Get off the JR thumping and leave him alone. Do you realize Walker would've cost us 17.9 mil for this year and next? Talk from your head, not your ass.
But it is Uncle Jerry's cheap and evil ways that continuously come back to haunt this team. Just like NBA free agents have avoided Chicago (post-dynasty) the Sox have a reputation (doesn't matter if you feel it's deserved or undeserved) of cheapness and a lack of credibility that makes big-time players want to avoid the South Side like the plague. People and players alike don't forget things like the White Flag Trade, treating Pudge like dirt at the end, and on and on. This is an organization that does most things on the cheap and you have look at the Chairman when pointing fingers.

Ed

Flight #24
08-07-2004, 09:46 PM
The Cardinals got the Rockies to pay $9 million of Larry Walker's contract. The Cards will owe Walker around $9 million for the rest of this season and all of next season. Talk from your head, not your ass.
Last I saw, that was a pretty hefty $$$ amount, especially for an oft-injured pretty old player. But the team was willing to do it. Not to mention Delgado, who is one of the most expensive players in all of baseball this year, but they were willing to take that on.

But by "refuse to spend $$$$" I guess you mean except for those expensive players they tried to get, they refused to spend $$$$.

Flight #24
08-07-2004, 09:47 PM
But it is Uncle Jerry's cheap and evil ways that continuously come back to haunt this team. Just like NBA free agents have avoided Chicago (post-dynasty) the Sox have a reputation (doesn't matter if you feel it's deserved or undeserved) of cheapness and a lack of credibility that makes big-time players want to avoid the South Side like the plague. People and players alike don't forget things like the White Flag Trade, treating Pudge like dirt at the end, and on and on. This is an organization that does most things on the cheap and you have look at the Chairman when pointing fingers.

Ed
Jeez - Delgado didn't want to go anywhere. He said that and he stuck to it. LA tried too (and had his buddy Shawn Green), no dice. Walker turned down deals to other places, but took a shot with the 31 games over .500 Cardinals.

But yeah, both had avoinding JR as a primary goal.....

idseer
08-07-2004, 09:47 PM
The Cardinals got the Rockies to pay $9 million of Larry Walker's contract. The Cards will owe Walker around $9 million for the rest of this season and all of next season. Talk from your head, not your ass.
what i'd like to know is the reason for those 2 not wanting to come to chicago.
personally i feel it's because they don't want to be owned by jr. i think that's the simple reason a lot of good players don't want to be here.
what else is it? i understand that most players love the city itself. we are/were a contending team. i sure don't believe they don't want to play for kw or og.

what do you truly think it is?

idseer
08-07-2004, 09:49 PM
But it is Uncle Jerry's cheap and evil ways that continuously come back to haunt this team. Just like NBA free agents have avoided Chicago (post-dynasty) the Sox have a reputation (doesn't matter if you feel it's deserved or undeserved) of cheapness and a lack of credibility that makes big-time players want to avoid the South Side like the plague. People and players alike don't forget things like the White Flag Trade, treating Pudge like dirt at the end, and on and on. This is an organization that does most things on the cheap and you have look at the Chairman when pointing fingers.

Ed
i must have been typing as you posted this. gmta! :smile:

Aidan
08-07-2004, 09:51 PM
what i'd like to know is the reason for those 2 not wanting to come to chicago.
personally i feel it's because they don't want to be owned by jr. i think that's the simple reason a lot of good players don't want to be here.
what else is it? i understand that most players love the city itself. we are/were a contending team. i sure don't believe they don't want to play for kw or og.

what do you truly think it is?Delgado just wants to wait until free agency to see what happens to him apparently. He loves Toronto as well.

Do you really even have to ask why Larry Walker would accept a trade to the Cardinals? Look at their record and lineup now with him in it. The only easy out is the pitcher spot.

I don't think KW, JR, or Ozzie have anything to do with their decisions.

idseer
08-07-2004, 09:51 PM
Jeez - Delgado didn't want to go anywhere. He said that and he stuck to it. LA tried too (and had his buddy Shawn Green), no dice. Walker turned down deals to other places, but took a shot with the 31 games over .500 Cardinals.

But yeah, both had avoinding JR as a primary goal.....
i would love to see just how many players have the sox on their list of teams they refuse to go to.
it's not just these two, i'm sure of that.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 09:53 PM
what do you truly think it is?
It has to be Reinsdorf. Just about every problem faced by the Sox organization over the past two decades can be traced back to him. The man needs to go. He's killing this team with his cheapness.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 09:54 PM
i would love to see just how many players have the sox on their list of teams they refuse to go to.
it's not just these two, i'm sure of that.
Even Cliff Floyd, a die-hard Sox fan as a child, refuses to play for this team. Again, the finger has to point to one man.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 09:54 PM
what i'd like to know is the reason for those 2 not wanting to come to chicago.
personally i feel it's because they don't want to be owned by jr. i think that's the simple reason a lot of good players don't want to be here.
what else is it? i understand that most players love the city itself. we are/were a contending team. i sure don't believe they don't want to play for kw or og.

what do you truly think it is?
they want to play for a team that has more of a chance of winning than losing(postseason included) unless you give them more money...

...and if 9 mil isnt anything, than why did we not give loaiza his 8 mil a year extension since its nothing Aidan...and players now want to play for the Bulls. They used to not want to play for Jerry Krause. If you read the Tribune, Peja has said he wants to be traded to the Bulls because he likes the orginazation, the coach, and the city. Kobe had Chicago in it's top 3 and he would be coming here, but the thing is LA told him they wouldn't sign and trade him for anything. Again, Speak from the head, not the ass.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 09:56 PM
Delgado just wants to wait until free agency to see what happens to him apparently. He loves Toronto as well.

Do you really even have to ask why Larry Walker would accept a trade to the Cardinals? Look at their record and lineup now with him in it. The only easy out is the pitcher spot.

I don't think KW, JR, or Ozzie have anything to do with their decisions.
Exactly. Couldn't agree with that statement more. Fans are just still bitter, not players.

Aidan
08-07-2004, 09:56 PM
It has to be Reinsdorf. Just about every problem faced by the Sox organization over the past two decades can be traced back to him. The man needs to go. He's killing this team with his cheapness.I don't think that either Delgado or Walker's decisions were swayed by Reinsdorf but I definately think that many other players don't want to come here because of him. He has a long history of cheapness and screwing over his players. The only reason he finally decided to loosen up the purse strings a tiny bit was because of KW pressuring him to do so. Maybe Reinsdorf finally realizes that winning teams bring more people to the park. :rolleyes:

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 09:57 PM
You know, I would imagine that Frank Thomas has several friends on other teams. I wonder if any of them ask him about Reinsdorf when they see him. I wonder what he says in response to their questions.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 09:57 PM
Even Cliff Floyd, a die-hard Sox fan as a child, refuses to play for this team. Again, the finger has to point to one man.
When did he say that?

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 10:02 PM
When did he say that?
There was an article published a few years ago about Floyd. In it, he talked about going to countless Sox games as a child, and that Harold Baines was his hero. It was also noted in the article that Floyd has a clause in his contract that prohibits him from being traded to the Sox. He has never said that JR was the reason, but I don't see what else would keep him from wanting to be here.

Wealz
08-07-2004, 10:04 PM
It has to be Reinsdorf. Just about every problem faced by the Sox organization over the past two decades can be traced back to him. The man needs to go. He's killing this team with his cheapness.
Seriously, how is it that the A's and Twins, with lower payrolls, outperform the White Sox year after year?

RKMeibalane
08-07-2004, 10:05 PM
Seriously, how is it that the A's and Twins, with lower payrolls, outperform the White Sox year after year?
Smarter baseball people- another problem of the Reinsdorf regeime. JR has repeatedly hired mediocre GM's, scouts, etc. Other teams find the best people avialible. Reinsdorf just wants people who will work cheap.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 10:05 PM
There was an article published a few years ago about Floyd. In it, he talked about going to countless Sox games as a child, and that Harold Baines was his hero. It was also noted in the article that Floyd has a clause in his contract that prohibits him from being traded to the Sox. He has never said that JR was the reason, but I don't see what else would keep him from wanting to be here.
losing??..being stuck in mediocrity?? thats what this team needs to do... either expand the budget one year to over what we got...or bench our best players and suck for a complete year to get an awesome player in the draft.

Wealz
08-07-2004, 10:11 PM
Smarter baseball people- another problem of the Reinsdorf regeime. JR has repeatedly hired mediocre GM's, scouts, etc. Other teams find the best people avialible. Reinsdorf just wants people who will work cheap.
I think smart baseball people, or the lack of them rather, is the problem of the Reinsdorf regime. You can win with a middle-of-the-pack payroll, Reinsdorf just has to find the people who know how.

Lip Man 1
08-08-2004, 01:49 AM
RK:

Right on the money.

Both in terms of the size of the payroll and the fact that Uncle Jerry has NEVER hired either a field or general manager who held that position with another major club before coming to the Sox.

I mean this is the guy who said this:

"Eddie and I would talk to Hawk and (Don) Drysdale at length, and Hawk more so, to identify problems in the organization, we were still neophytes in this business and we were impressed with the way Hawk pointed out our problems. [GM] wasn't something he really wanted him to do, but we urged him to help us out. The mistake was that when you go to a doctor who diagnoses open-heart surgery, you don't have him do the surgery because he diagnosed the problem, you get a heart surgeon. Just because Hawk was able to diagnose our problems did not mean he could solve them. It was a terrible position to put him in, and a year later, he said he wanted out." Jerry Reinsdorf to Melissa Issacson. Chicago Tribune. May 28, 2004.

and the Cliff Floyd story where he talked about being a Sox fan, about having Harold Baines as his hero and about the 'no trade' clause was in Sports Illustrated.

and don't forget Curt Schilling's comments in July 2000 to The Arizona Republic.

Lip

juggalomike
08-08-2004, 01:55 AM
RK:

and don't forget Curt Schilling's comments in July 2000 to The Arizona Republic.

LipWhat were they???

Lip Man 1
08-08-2004, 02:08 AM
For the seventh time....

The Arizona Republic interviewed Schilling in July 2000 when rumors were swirling that he would get traded. The D-backs were one of the clubs interested ergo that's why the Republic spoke with him.

The Sox were also speculated about as being interested.

In the story Schilling said he would never, under any circumstances, approve a deal to the Sox as long as Jerry Reinsdorf owned the team.

When pressed to explain all Schilling would say was that during the labor impasse in 1994, Reinsdorf said something directly to Schilling in a labor meeting (both men were in on the bargaining sessions) that he found so offensive and so uncalled for that he never forgave him.

To this day Curt has never revealed what JR told him but obviously he took it very personally.

Lip

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 02:35 AM
The blame for this mess lies with Reinsdorf's refusal to increase payroll.
Bull****!!! I'm sick of you people who have nothing more intelligent to say than Reinsdorf is cheap. You can't understand anything other than money? How do you explain that the most underfunded team in the division is now on it's way to a third consecutive divisional championship? You want cheap? Talk to the richest owner in the Division. He's so cheap that he wanted to contract his team. He's so cheap that he refuses to retain the best players that he has on that team.

Wanta know why Delgado and Walker and quite a few others don't want to come here? It isn't money. The White Sox haven't won in 90 years and those players want to win.

Win1ForMe
08-08-2004, 03:28 AM
RK:

Right on the money.

Both in terms of the size of the payroll and the fact that Uncle Jerry has NEVER hired either a field or general manager who held that position with another major club before coming to the Sox.

I mean this is the guy who said this:

"Eddie and I would talk to Hawk and (Don) Drysdale at length, and Hawk more so, to identify problems in the organization, we were still neophytes in this business and we were impressed with the way Hawk pointed out our problems. [GM] wasn't something he really wanted him to do, but we urged him to help us out. The mistake was that when you go to a doctor who diagnoses open-heart surgery, you don't have him do the surgery because he diagnosed the problem, you get a heart surgeon. Just because Hawk was able to diagnose our problems did not mean he could solve them. It was a terrible position to put him in, and a year later, he said he wanted out." Jerry Reinsdorf to Melissa Issacson. Chicago Tribune. May 28, 2004.

and the Cliff Floyd story where he talked about being a Sox fan, about having Harold Baines as his hero and about the 'no trade' clause was in Sports Illustrated.

and don't forget Curt Schilling's comments in July 2000 to The Arizona Republic.

Lip
:hijacked:

Gimm
08-08-2004, 03:44 AM
Bull****!!! I'm sick of you people who have nothing more intelligent to say than Reinsdorf is cheap
No, that's incorrect - he is cheap, short-sighted and disingenuous. Get it straight.

:bandance:

gosox41
08-08-2004, 08:06 AM
This isn't surprising. KW has been trying his best to make this team better. The blame for this mess lies with Reinsdorf's refusal to increase payroll. If he had been more willing to spend money, the Sox might not have so many holes right now. The loss of Thomas and Ordonez to injuries has completely destroyed this team.

Memo to other GM's: do not build your entire team around two players. Spend money and find good players for every position, as well as interchangable parts and players who can come off the bench. In other words, don't do what the Sox did.
What are you talking about? Walker adn Degado didn't want to waive their no trade clauses to come here. It wasn't that JR wasn't willing to spend on them. They refused to come. I read somewhere that the Sox and Toronto had already approved a trade for Delgado then went ot Delgado and he rejected it.

But somehow you blame JR for not spending money. Justout of curiosity, how many games do you plan to go the rest of the year? Attendance is dropping because this team is losing. Where's the support?


Bob

gosox41
08-08-2004, 08:08 AM
Even Cliff Floyd, a die-hard Sox fan as a child, refuses to play for this team. Again, the finger has to point to one man.
When did this happen? I didn't realize Floyd had a no trade clause in his contract.


Bob

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 08:30 AM
For the seventh time....

The Arizona Republic interviewed Schilling in July 2000 when rumors were swirling that he would get traded. The D-backs were one of the clubs interested ergo that's why the Republic spoke with him.

The Sox were also speculated about as being interested.

In the story Schilling said he would never, under any circumstances, approve a deal to the Sox as long as Jerry Reinsdorf owned the team.

When pressed to explain all Schilling would say was that during the labor impasse in 1994, Reinsdorf said something directly to Schilling in a labor meeting (both men were in on the bargaining sessions) that he found so offensive and so uncalled for that he never forgave him.

To this day Curt has never revealed what JR told him but obviously he took it very personally.

Lip
Well, the White Sox are members of a rather nonexclusive club. What you don't mention is that while he was in Philadelphia, Schilling would accept a trade to one of only six clubs. Twentyfour teams were on his personal no trade list. Only one had JR as an owner.

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 08:37 AM
Memo to other GM's: do not build your entire team around two players. Spend money and find good players for every position, as well as interchangable parts and players who can come off the bench. In other words, don't do what the Sox did.
Now here's a grand idea: It's all JR's fault because he didn't dump Magglio and Frank before the season began. Well, you should be happy now, they're both gone.

By the way, it's a stupid idea. Just think of how successful the Bulls were the two seasons that Jordan was playing baseball.

idseer
08-08-2004, 08:45 AM
Now here's a grand idea: It's all JR's fault because he didn't dump Magglio and Frank before the season began. Well, you should be happy now, they're both gone.

By the way, it's a stupid idea. Just think of how successful the Bulls were the two seasons that Jordan was playing baseball.i think you missed the point. don't get 2 stars and fill in around them with crap.
mj and scottie had excellent players all around them. the sox have/had thomas, magglio and then nothing at c, 2nd, 3rd, ss. also not much in left or relief.
big difference!

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 08:53 AM
i think you missed the point. don't get 2 stars and fill in around them with crap.
mj and scottie had excellent players all around them. the sox have/had thomas, magglio and then nothing at c, 2nd, 3rd, ss. also not much in left or relief.
big difference!
Well the "crap" as you describe this team, was good enough to have us in the fight for the division until the two that someone else wants traded went on the DL.

idseer
08-08-2004, 09:20 AM
Well the "crap" as you describe this team, was good enough to have us in the fight for the division until the two that someone else wants traded went on the DL.
i think original intent was .... don't give me 2 great players and 7 crap to medioce players. give me a more well rounded team. and i totally agree with it.

ChiSoxBobette
08-08-2004, 09:29 AM
Delgado and Walker cost hefty money. Get off the JR thumping and leave him alone. Do you realize Walker would've cost us 17.9 mil for this year and next? Talk from your head, not your ass.
Oh but JR has to take some of the blame only because we always go into a season waiting. We wait to see if the team is going to be competetive then JR has Kenny go out there looking , this year we did ok getting Freddy Garcia, but why don't we go into a season with those pieces already in place. What would this team have been like if we had signed Tejada, or really had gone after Vlad or brought in a solid starting pitcher from the beginning of the year. Next year there are several solid FA's we could use Troy Glaus being one or even Nomar, we could use a real leadoff man Baltimore could make a trade for Jerry Hairsted Jr. , we need some bullpen help. JR have KW go out before the season starts to get these players lets not wait until the all-star break to see if we in 1st place or close to it. Lets face it unless they go out this off season and bring in a couple of top of the line FA's then this team as it is , even with the three quality starters we have Buehrle, Garcia & the guy we just got from the yankees this team will be destined for 3rd or 4th place especially now with the Indians & Tigers making a comeback the way they have and our minor league system being depleted.

mdep524
08-08-2004, 10:31 AM
Bull****!!! I'm sick of you people who have nothing more intelligent to say than Reinsdorf is cheap. You can't understand anything other than money? How do you explain that the most underfunded team in the division is now on it's way to a third consecutive divisional championship? You want cheap? Talk to the richest owner in the Division. He's so cheap that he wanted to contract his team. He's so cheap that he refuses to retain the best players that he has on that team.

Wanta know why Delgado and Walker and quite a few others don't want to come here? It isn't money. The White Sox haven't won in 90 years and those players want to win.This is a great point that many people conveniently overlook when bashing JR/the Sox organization. The Twins are basically a minor league operation. Carl Pohlad is one of the worst in the biz- almost getting his team contracted, passing over Mark Prior, letting all his good players leave, refusing to televise Twins games on TV for the first month or so this season, etc. He's essentially Bill Wirtz. Say what you will about JR- and much of the criticism is justified- I'll take him over Pohlad any day, and you simply CANNOT attribute the Sox losing to the Twins to worse ownership.

mdep524
08-08-2004, 10:42 AM
Back to the original topic of this thread, I applaud KW for giving everything he's got to try to win this thing, and it is disappointing neither slugger would waive their no-trade clauses to come here...BUT....

In other ways it is probably a blessing in disguise that these trades didn't happen. First of all, as great as Walker and Delgado are, is this team realistically good enough that adding one player would put them over the top? I would say this team is fundamentally flawed, and would not have won anyway. A big power hitter is not what this team needed to win, an overhaul is. Also, knowing KW, he probably would have included Anderson or Sweeney or Diaz or McCarthy in one of these deals, citing the need to "win now." Well, we probably wouldn't have won anyway, and lost what few impact prospects we have left down on the farm.

So I am slightly relieved that these trades did not go down. What it comes down to, I guess, is that I like KW but simply do not trust him in big time trades. He has a track record of drastically overpaying in those situations, other GMs know it and will take advantage of it. I would much rather just see the Sox rebuild/acquire big time players via signing FAs in the off season. It's not a good thing to not be able to trust your GM in big time situations. :(:

Lip Man 1
08-08-2004, 12:56 PM
Owen:

That may be so but only one owner shot his mouth off didn't he to Schilling?

Lip

owensmouth
08-08-2004, 01:04 PM
Owen:

That may be so but only one owner shot his mouth off didn't he to Schilling?

Lip
One that we know of. Besides, perhaps Schilling instigated the incident.

sendimjoey
08-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Back to the original topic of this thread, I applaud KW for giving everything he's got to try to win this thing, and it is disappointing neither slugger would waive their no-trade clauses to come here...BUT....

In other ways it is probably a blessing in disguise that these trades didn't happen. First of all, as great as Walker and Delgado are, is this team realistically good enough that adding one player would put them over the top? I would say this team is fundamentally flawed, and would not have won anyway.

Without Thomas and Ordonez, I agree, it wasn't worth giving up two or three young players with high ceilings for either Walker or Delgado to try to salvage this season.

gosox41
08-09-2004, 11:08 AM
Owen:

That may be so but only one owner shot his mouth off didn't he to Schilling?

Lip
Wasn't Schilling the guy who ranted and raved when he was pitching a perfect game because a player on the opposing team decided to bunt for a hit. Never mind Schilling was up 2-0 at the time and by bunting fo a hit the player was bringing up the tying run. The team (I forget who it was) should have just laid down and let Schilling throw the perfect game instead of actually playing baseball.


SO Schilling doesn't have much credibility with me.



Bob

Tekijawa
08-09-2004, 11:36 AM
Even Cliff Floyd, a die-hard Sox fan as a child, refuses to play for this team. Again, the finger has to point to one man.
I know a very good friend of Cliff's, I asked him Why Cliff wouldn't play here and he said that Cliff won't play for any Chicago Team or the Cardinals because there would be to many "hand outs" if he came back, going back home can generally be pretty taxing from that stand point.... It has nothing to do with reiney, while I'm not the biggest Jerry Fan by any means, I thought that I should dispell that rumor.

Tekijawa
08-09-2004, 11:37 AM
Wasn't Schilling the guy who ranted and raved when he was pitching a perfect game because a player on the opposing team decided to bunt for a hit. Never mind Schilling was up 2-0 at the time and by bunting fo a hit the player was bringing up the tying run. The team (I forget who it was) should have just laid down and let Schilling throw the perfect game instead of actually playing baseball.


SO Schilling doesn't have much credibility with me.



Bob
Ben Davis, you may recognize him from his current stint with the whitesox... I believe he was a rookie on the Padre's at that time.

Gimm
08-09-2004, 12:06 PM
.In other ways it is probably a blessing in disguise that these trades didn't happen. First of all, as great as Walker and Delgado are, is this team realistically good enough that adding one player would put them over the top? :(:
Yes.

1. With Garcia-Buerhle-Contreas-Marte-Shingo, this team could sweep any team in a short playoff series just as easily as they could get swept. And reachign ALCS this year is of paramount importance to this franchise, especially if Cubs find a way to miss out on the postseason altogether.

2. 6 of our last 8 losses were of 1-run variety, all easily winnable at one juncture or another. Don't underestimate the positive effect a Thomas/Delgado/Walker can have on his teammates. In tight ballgames (remember even the loss to KC was a 0-0 score until the 5th and with just a couple of runs early, Sox could have bagged that game), just one player of that caliber can make all the difference in the world.

Hell, Aramis Ramirez goes down with a groin injury and Cubs go from scoring 5 runs a game to scoring 2.5 runs a game and tank against Milwakee and St. Loius. Is he that good that he accounts for extra 2.5 runs a game by himself? Of course not, but his presence in the line-up was almost as important as his actual RBI production.

3. Besides a big-time run producer that will take pressure off Lee, Konerko, Everett, Valentin and Uribe....Sox also need a lead-off hitter. Like Kenny Lofton. Or Jerry Hairston, Jr even. Lack of OBP was and is a HUGE problem in July-August and contributed to a lot of avoidable losses. Also such move would push Willie/Robbie/Aaron into the #2 spot where they belong.

I don't think you have to give up Sweeney, Anderson, Honel, MaCarthy, Crede, Borchard, Diaz, Uribe, Young to get Delgado and Lofton/Hairston.

Other prospects? Sure, but they won't be missed just as Royce Ring and Anthony Webster aren't missed.

Flight #24
08-09-2004, 12:43 PM
I don't think you have to give up Sweeney, Anderson, Honel, MaCarthy, Crede, Borchard, Diaz, Uribe, Young to get Delgado and Lofton/Hairston.


While I agree with your statement on what it takes to get Delgado, I'm not sure how exactly you intend to get himsince he won't come, how you intend to get Lofton since the Yanks aren't exactly looking to peddle him (and aren't that interested in acquiring mediocre prospects). IMO, you'll pay a lot more for Hairston since he's a pretty good player, is young, and isn't up for FA for a few years yet (I think).

And I don't think there are a ton of other guys out there that you can get without adding some pretty significant long-term payroll.

MRKARNO
08-09-2004, 12:49 PM
And I don't think there are a ton of other guys out there that you can get without adding some pretty significant long-term payroll.
This is the key. High-talent hitters with contracts expiring this year on faltering teams arent exactly falling out of the sky.