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View Full Version : Crede benched? You can put it on the board...YES!!!


Win1ForMe
08-07-2004, 02:26 AM
...but don't get too excited, cuz it looks Uribe is the one to replace him.


Odd man out

While Juan Uribe played shortstop against left-hander C.C. Sabathia on Friday, the players who could be losers with the Alomar homecoming are Willie Harris and third baseman Joe Crede.

"Uribe is going to play a lot of third base," Guillen said.

And Crede?

"I'm really disappointed, not because he's hitting .210 or .220 (actually .233), it's just the at-bats he gets," Guillen said. "He's got great talent, a chance to be a good player, but you have to prepare yourself to play the game every day, mentally and physically."
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040806soxbits,1,6689583.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Nard
08-07-2004, 02:40 AM
Uribe showed a little of that Juan Ruth style today.

Maybe a comeback is in order.

Too bad for Joe. He just hasn't had it this season.

ChiSoxBobette
08-07-2004, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=Nard]Uribe showed a little of that Juan Ruth style today.

Maybe a comeback is in order.

Too bad for Joe. He just hasn't had it this season.[/QUOTE:dtroll: ]

Joe Crede is not what everyone was hoping he'd be, the 2nd coming of Robin Ventura, we should have sent him packing instead of Olivio becuase the M's asked about Crede 1st and we said no. Good move getting garcia we just gave up the wrong young player , since we traded Olivio our team has 'nt been the same. I'm not saying we would have been playing better but lets face it Miquel made a big difference behind the plate and as far as Crede Olivio hits as good as he does. I think we should package Crede, Garland, & Valentin right now to get some top of the line prospects that another team in contention might give us I'm sure the twins are looking for some pitching and bench help and they seem to have the best minor league system in baseball. We missed the boat when the Dodgers traded Mota. LaDuca and whoever for those guys from the Marlins they probably would have taken those three especially if garland was in the mix. I would have loved to see Paul LaDuca playing for us.

kitekrazy
08-07-2004, 11:52 AM
[QUOTE=Nard]
I think we should package Crede, Garland, & Valentin right now to get some top of the line prospects that another team in contention might give us I'm sure the twins are looking for some pitching and bench help and they seem to have the best minor league system in baseball.I like that stratedgy. With those guys on the Twins the Sox, Cleveland or Detroit could easily take over the division.

SoxxoS
08-07-2004, 11:55 AM
Replacing Crede with Uribe is like replacing Mary Kate with Ashley. The same damn thing. They both suck.

Hangar18
08-07-2004, 11:55 AM
Joe Crede is not what everyone was hoping he'd be, the 2nd coming of Robin Ventura, we should have sent him packing instead of Olivio becuase the M's asked about Crede 1st and we said no. Good move getting garcia we just gave up the wrong young player , since we traded Olivio our team has 'nt been the same. I'm not saying we would have been playing better but lets face it Miquel made a big difference behind the plate and as far as Crede Olivio hits as good as he does. I think we should package Crede, Garland, & Valentin right now to get some top of the line prospects that another team in contention might give us I'm sure the twins are looking for some pitching and bench help and they seem to have the best minor league system in baseball. We missed the boat when the Dodgers traded Mota. LaDuca and whoever for those guys from the Marlins they probably would have taken those three especially if garland was in the mix. I would have loved to see Paul LaDuca playing for us.[/QUOTE]

Good good point. The SOX have a guy they just drafted, forgetting his name, to play 3B, im somewhat excited about. Maybe Crede shouldve been shipped out, to pave the way for the young guy when hes ready.
Man, I never knew LoDuca was on the block with Mota. That wouldve
been awesome to send Loiaza over there or Garland. I think Garland
will be a heck of a National League Pitcher ....... he doesnt have the
makeup for playing in the AL.

soxtalker
08-07-2004, 12:01 PM
[QUOTE=Nard]Uribe showed a little of that Juan Ruth style today.

Maybe a comeback is in order.

Too bad for Joe. He just hasn't had it this season.[/QUOTE:dtroll: ]

Joe Crede is not what everyone was hoping he'd be, the 2nd coming of Robin Ventura, we should have sent him packing instead of Olivio becuase the M's asked about Crede 1st and we said no. Good move getting garcia we just gave up the wrong young player , since we traded Olivio our team has 'nt been the same. I'm not saying we would have been playing better but lets face it Miquel made a big difference behind the plate and as far as Crede Olivio hits as good as he does. I think we should package Crede, Garland, & Valentin right now to get some top of the line prospects that another team in contention might give us I'm sure the twins are looking for some pitching and bench help and they seem to have the best minor league system in baseball. We missed the boat when the Dodgers traded Mota. LaDuca and whoever for those guys from the Marlins they probably would have taken those three especially if garland was in the mix. I would have loved to see Paul LaDuca playing for us.
IIRC, the M's wanted Crede, but not instead of Olivo -- it was Reed who was the alternative. Having said that, I also wish that we had Reed instead of Crede at this point.

illinibk
08-07-2004, 12:02 PM
Replacing Crede with Uribe is like replacing Mary Kate with Ashley. The same damn thing. They both suck.True, but as far as we know, Crede isn't an anorexic coke addict.

Edit: But if he were, that might explain a few things.

CubKilla
08-07-2004, 12:17 PM
True, but as far as we know, Crede isn't an anorexic coke addict.
True..... but he is a second-half player :rolleyes:

FightingBillini
08-07-2004, 12:46 PM
Im not a big fan of Brad Penny, but I would take him over Loaiza or Garland any day. The Dodger would NEVER make that trade with us. They got raped as it is, but giving up an Allstar catcher and the best setup man since Mariano was setting up Wetland for a fluke allstar with an era in the mid 4s? No way.

SoxxoS
08-07-2004, 01:15 PM
True..... but he is a second-half player :rolleyes:
Haha.

I remember Randar told me to go on Prozac because I was convinced earlier in the season that Crede isn't the long term answer...I am still waiting for that 2nd half push...:rolleyes:

CubKilla
08-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Haha.

I remember Randar told me to go on Prozac because I was convinced earlier in the season that Crede isn't the long term answer...I am still waiting for that 2nd half push...:rolleyes:
You ain't the only one. I'm still waiting for Judy's break out year too.

Pretty sad when Sox fans are forced by Ownership to place their hopes in players "breaking out", "being 2nd half players", and the Twins having a "much tougher 2nd half schedule than us."

Dub25
08-07-2004, 01:28 PM
True, but as far as we know, Crede isn't an anorexic coke addict.

Edit: But if he were, that might explain a few things.
Heck, maybe a little coke would help this guy. It would certainly wake him up. Maybe the Sox still have Tony Phillips phone number.

OEO Magglio
08-07-2004, 01:30 PM
It was nice seeing Juan to go rightfield yesterday but he's still been just as bad as Joe. I just think ozzie wants to play as much speed as possible right now.

idseer
08-07-2004, 02:08 PM
[QUOTE=Nard]Joe Crede is not what everyone was hoping he'd be, the 2nd coming of Robin Ventura, we should have sent him packing instead of Olivio becuase the M's asked about Crede 1st and we said no. Good move getting garcia we just gave up the wrong young player , since we traded Olivio our team has 'nt been the same. I'm not saying we would have been playing better but lets face it Miquel made a big difference behind the plate and as far as Crede Olivio hits as good as he does. I think we should package Crede, Garland, & Valentin right now to get some top of the line prospects that another team in contention might give us I'm sure the twins are looking for some pitching and bench help and they seem to have the best minor league system in baseball. We missed the boat when the Dodgers traded Mota. LaDuca and whoever for those guys from the Marlins they probably would have taken those three especially if garland was in the mix. I would have loved to see Paul LaDuca playing for us.
you know ... things haven't changed. olivo is batting .213 in 20 games for the mariners. he still can't hit righties and i bet he never does. he's also been caught 2 of 3 times stealing.

it didn't matter WHO they took. there is no way to tell which of these guys has the longer term upside other than to wait and watch their careers unfold.

and by the way ... miguel did NOT make a big difference behind the plate. he played in 2/5's the games.

JRIG
08-07-2004, 02:09 PM
It was nice seeing Juan to go rightfield yesterday but he's still been just as bad as Joe. I just think ozzie wants to play as much speed as possible right now.
I don't see how this can be a good thing. It just means we have one more hole to fill for next year. Checklist now reads: C, 2B, SS, 3B. Four of the five infield positions need major overhauls, if Valentin doesn't come back.

I've seen enough of the Juan Uribe Show as it is.

idseer
08-07-2004, 02:15 PM
I don't see how this can be a good thing. It just means we have one more hole to fill for next year. Checklist now reads: C, 2B, SS, 3B. Four of the five infield positions need major overhauls, if Valentin doesn't come back.

I've seen enough of the Juan Uribe Show as it is.
????????????

are you suggesting if valentin comes back that ss won't be a hole?

holy COW!

Aidan
08-07-2004, 02:17 PM
you know ... things haven't changed. olivo is batting .213 in 20 games for the mariners. he still can't hit righties and i bet he never does. he's also been caught 2 of 3 times stealing.

it didn't matter WHO they took. there is no way to tell which of these guys has the longer term upside other than to wait and watch their careers unfold.

and by the way ... miguel did NOT make a big difference behind the plate. he played in 2/5's the games.Agreed. I still would rather have Crede than Olivo but only time will tell when it comes to Jeremy Reed. Olivo is hitting the same way with the Mariners as he did with us, only he is getting more at bats with them and he still isn't hitting with any consistency. The addition and improvement of Ben Davis only makes me miss Olivo that much less.

Miguel Olivo (http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=400018)
.252 AVG
.306 OBP
9 HR
30 RBI
6 SB
6 CS
14 BB
50 SO

Those stats don't impress me much. While he can still crush lefties (.417 AVG vs. Left), he cannot hit righties to save his life (.201 AVG vs. Right).

JRIG
08-07-2004, 02:26 PM
????????????

are you suggesting if valentin comes back that ss won't be a hole?

holy COW!
Again, finding a moderately effective platoon partner for Valentin so he never sees LHP would be a very good move. Valentin is right at .260/.325/.600 against RHP this year.

Win1ForMe
08-07-2004, 02:57 PM
I don't see how this can be a good thing. It just means we have one more hole to fill for next year. Checklist now reads: C, 2B, SS, 3B. Four of the five infield positions need major overhauls, if Valentin doesn't come back.
I might get hammered for this but it seems to me like the Jamie Burke/Ben Davis platoon might work out for us. In a combined 96 AB, the duo has 32 hits (.333 AVG). While I don't expect them to stay at that level, a combined .250 avg. shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Olivo has been terrible since going to Seattle (.213) and his overall batting average has dipped to .252. So if we still had Miguel, and he put those numbers together, I doubt people would clamor for a new Catcher.

As far 2B and SS, it's very possible Alomar and Valentin might just stay with us for next year. Crede's benching probably signifies he won't be the starting 3B in 2005, though.

Aidan
08-07-2004, 03:04 PM
I might get hammered for this but it seems to me like the Jamie Burke/Ben Davis platoon might work out for us. In a combined 96 AB, the duo has 32 hits (.333 AVG). While I don't expect them to stay at that level, a combined .250 avg. shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Olivo has been terrible since going to Seattle (.213) and his overall batting average has dipped to .252. So if we still had Miguel, and he put those numbers together, I doubt people would clamor for a new Catcher.

As far 2B and SS, it's very possible Alomar and Valentin might just stay with us for next year. Crede's benching probably signifies he won't be the starting 3B in 2005, though.Great point. Surprisingly, Burke and Davis have hit well. Olivo has struggled worse than both of them. I also think that Ben Davis is our starting catcher next season. Sandy Alomar may retire and become a bench coach for us. Ben Davis is fluent in Spanish so he can catch for both Garcia and Contreras. If he continues to hit, he will probably catch the rest of our staff as well. Maybe Jamie Burke will spell him a day or two a week next season.

I think both Valentin and Alomar will be signed to 1 or 2 year "retirement" deals. I have a feeling that they will play out their respective careers with the White Sox. Ozzie seems to love The Valenstache and both KW and Ozzie love Robbie Alomar.

soxtalker
08-07-2004, 03:46 PM
Great point. Surprisingly, Burke and Davis have hit well. Olivo has struggled worse than both of them. I also think that Ben Davis is our starting catcher next season. Sandy Alomar may retire and become a bench coach for us. Ben Davis is fluent in Spanish so he can catch for both Garcia and Contreras. If he continues to hit, he will probably catch the rest of our staff as well. Maybe Jamie Burke will spell him a day or two a week next season.

I think both Valentin and Alomar will be signed to 1 or 2 year "retirement" deals. I have a feeling that they will play out their respective careers with the White Sox. Ozzie seems to love The Valenstache and both KW and Ozzie love Robbie Alomar.
I agree on Davis (and Burke). I had a feeling right after they made the trade that he might be one of those diamonds that KW likes to find in other organizations. But they do need to keep working on his hitting. It has only been about a week since WSI was filled with calls for him to be shipped out of town or released.

I'm not as sure about Valentin and Alomar. Alomar is probably a better shot, as he's making much less money. I've actually been wondering if they might trade Valentin if they decide that they have fallen too far out of the race in the next few days.

Aidan
08-07-2004, 04:14 PM
I'm not as sure about Valentin and Alomar. Alomar is probably a better shot, as he's making much less money. I've actually been wondering if they might trade Valentin if they decide that they have fallen too far out of the race in the next few days.It would be nice to get a few prospects for Valentin and then possibly resign him this offseason but what contender needs a SS? All the winning teams have better shortstops and they are hitting better than .231. Besides, what contender would want a SS that is shaky defensively? Maybe as a DH, I guess.

soxtalker
08-07-2004, 04:49 PM
It would be nice to get a few prospects for Valentin and then possibly resign him this offseason but what contender needs a SS? All the winning teams have better shortstops and they are hitting better than .231. Besides, what contender would want a SS that is shaky defensively? Maybe as a DH, I guess.
Regarding Valentin's market value, I suspect that the recent defensive lapses aren't as big of a negative as the high strike-out rate and batting average. Valentin's defense hasn't changed much in the past few years. KW signed him at $5M, because he figured that Valentin could get that on the open market. So, I'm guessing that other teams buy the arguments about greater range, etc. I'm not sure who in the playoff hunt needs a SS right now, but Valentin does offer good power from the left-hand side.