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View Full Version : Looking ahead to 2005....


MONEYBALL21
08-06-2004, 07:16 PM
If we had a smart GM I these would be some of the moves that can be done....

Trade Garland for David Eckstein and Kevin Gregg(Angels need pitching and they will be willing to part with Eckstein because they will be going after Renteria or Nomahhhhhhhh)

Sign Matt Clement(he's a Cub but who cares he's damn good he'd look good in a sox uni)

Find a sucker to unload Valentin on

Trade Crede to Seattle for Jolbert Cabrerra and prospects.

Sign Frank Cattalanatto to play RF or 3B

Move Paulie to 3rd or DH him and put Thomas at first(he only bats .073 points higher when he plays 1st, he would more than make up for his bad defense at 1b)

Trade for Phillies back up catcher Todd Pratt(cheap and great career OBP)

Trade Borchard, Uribe and a prospect to a sucker team like the Expos for Livan Hernandez.

So then the have a solid cheap team with a great pitching.

1. Eckstein SS
2. Cattalanatto RF/3b
3. Rowand CF
4. Thomas 1b
5. Lee Lf
6. Konerko DH/3B
7. Everett DH/RF
8. Pratt C
9. Harris/Cabrerra 2B

Bench
Davis
Cabrerra
Perez
Gload

Starters
1. Garcia
2. Clement
3. Buehrle
4. Hernandez
5. Contreras

Bullpen
Cotts
Gregg
Adkins
Pollitte
Marte

Closer
S H I N G O

Now that looks like a less selfish team that gets on base and a team that can finally over come the twinkies. But we have KW so this will never happen.....

RKMeibalane
08-06-2004, 07:33 PM
I'm sorry, but...

http://www.mfit.de/Episode_II/Bilder/dooku.jpg

This thread has officially been zapped.

ndgt10
08-06-2004, 07:36 PM
I'm sorry, but...
This thread has officially been zapped.I actually agreed with most of his suggestions...

RKMeibalane
08-06-2004, 07:38 PM
I actually agreed with most of his suggestions...
I can understand that. I was actually just looking for an excuse to play around with that picture.

MONEYBALL21
08-06-2004, 07:40 PM
I actually agreed with most of his suggestions...
TY Looking at that team it would prolly rack up 91-95 wins also they'd have room to make offensive additions at the deadline.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 07:45 PM
1. Eckstein SS
2. Cattalanatto RF/3b
3. Rowand CF
4. Thomas 1b
5. Lee Lf
6. Konerko DH/3B
7. Everett DH/RF
8. Pratt C
9. Harris/Cabrerra 2B
If we had a smart GM? That's debateable, but any GM that put Frank at first, Catalanatto/Konerko at third and Everett in RF would be giving basehits to anyone who hit the ball hard down the lines. Thats would be the total opposite of "smart." A smarter idea would be improve defense all around and have power at DH and in the outfield. If Konerko can be unloaded for a SP or bullpen help, David Segui (if healthy) would be a cheap option. Crede should stay at 3B unless KW can find someone that's equal or better defensively and hits for higher average, especially with RISP. If not, he doesn't need to go. His numbers are better than Koskie this year and has potential to be much better, yet Koskie has never held down the Twins has he? Davis may become better than everyone thinks with the bat and has already shown off his arm and ability to call a game. Everett and Catalanatto are good for pinch hitter/RF/LF/DH roles, but only one please, not both. All this team really needs is another lefty bat, some confident speed, a true CF and a true leadoff hitter (which is why we should really make a play at Crawford via trade or Beltran via free agency). SS can be filled by Uribe and I'm confident that with consistent playing time he will improve. Harris will (hopefully) improve at 2B and Alomar is the perfect back up in the infield. If Vidro can be had though, bring it on.

RKMeibalane
08-06-2004, 07:47 PM
What's wrong with putting Frank at first?

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 07:52 PM
What's wrong with putting Frank at first?
He's not a first baseman anymore. He's definately not going to be saving any runs there. Unless its interleague play, forget about it.

MONEYBALL21
08-06-2004, 07:54 PM
If we had a smart GM? That's debateable, but any GM that put Frank at first, Catalanatto/Konerko at third and Everett in RF would be giving basehits to anyone who hit the ball hard down the lines. Thats would be the total opposite of "smart." A smarter idea would be improve defense all around and have power at DH and in the outfield. If Konerko can be unloaded for a SP or bullpen help, David Segui (if healthy) would be a cheap option. Crede should stay at 3B unless KW can find someone that's equal or better defensively and hits for higher average, especially with RISP. If not, he doesn't need to go. His numbers are better than Koskie this year and has potential to be much better, yet Koskie has never held down the Twins has he? Davis may become better than everyone thinks with the bat and has already shown off his arm and ability to call a game. Everett and Catalanatto are good for pinch hitter/RF/LF/DH roles, but only one please, not both. All this team really needs is another lefty bat, some confident speed, a true CF and a true leadoff hitter (which is why we should really make a play at Crawford via trade or Beltran via free agency). SS can be filled by Uribe and I'm confident that with consistent playing time he will improve. Harris will (hopefully) improve at 2B and Alomar is the perfect back up in the infield. If Vidro can be had though, bring it on.
Do they have the Yankees payroll? Are the D'rays dumb enought to trade Crawford? HELL NO! This is the best way to build a cheap team. Cattalanatto a PH at best? He's only a career .300 hitter. I agree Everett blows at D, Cattalanatto isnt a gold glover and Thomas is a joke at first, but defense is only 10-15% of the game and we all saw in 2000 IT WON'T HURT THEM THAT MUCH. And with the strike out pitchers on the team Jo-Co Garcia and Clement the defense will be less important. If they had payroll of course you go after Coskie, Beltran and attempt a trade for Vidro but last time I checked the Chi Sox don't have that much money. This is team is cheap and it can win ball games.

RKMeibalane
08-06-2004, 07:58 PM
He's not a first baseman anymore. He's definately not going to be saving any runs there. Unless its interleague play, forget about it.
I don't know. I don't see a problem with playing him at first twice a week, especially on the road. That shouldn't be too much to handle. It's not as though Konerko has been winning Gold Gloves at first.

illinibk
08-06-2004, 08:01 PM
It's not as though Konerko has been winning Gold Gloves at first.
Nevermind the fact that he had the highest fielding percentage of any American League first baseman last season.

BearSox
08-06-2004, 08:05 PM
Those moves might work ....on a video game.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:06 PM
Do they have the Yankees payroll? Are the D'rays dumb enought to trade Crawford? HELL NO! This is the best way to build a cheap team. Cattalanatto a PH at best? He's only a career .300 hitter. I agree Everett blows at D, Cattalanatto isnt a gold glover and Thomas is a joke at first, but defense is only 10-15% of the game and we all saw in 2000 IT WON'T HURT THEM THAT MUCH. And with the strike out pitchers on the team Jo-Co Garcia and Clement the defense will be less important. If they had payroll of course you go after Coskie, Beltran and attempt a trade for Vidro but last time I checked the Chi Sox don't have that much money. This is team is cheap and it can win ball games.I never said go after Koskie. I said that Crede has been BETTER than him this year and should only go if he needs to be gone. Paulie at 3B is also a joke. Crawford isn't untouchable - no one is, and I don't know why everyone keeps saying that he is. The D-Rays are terrible and the right package from the right team can land him. Crede/Harris+Honel+Sweeney for example? You want Cotts, too? And it doesn't take a Yankees payroll to come up with this:
2B Harris/Alomar/Vidro
RF Rowand
CF Beltran
DH Thomas
LF Lee
3B Crede
C Davis
1B Segui/Gload
SS Uribe/Harris

Buehrle/Garcia/Contreras/Garland/Diaz

MRKARNO
08-06-2004, 08:09 PM
I really like your suggestions. The offense wouldn't be all that great, but that starting rotation is filthy. It would be a very good team. I hope KW has a similar idea in mind this offseason. I would love to see a White Sox team which is built around pitching. The hardest part would be signing Clement because a lot of teams are probably going to go after him, including the NY Yankees. However, if they sign Beltran, they might actually have a tougher time being able to make their best offer to Clement.

MONEYBALL21
08-06-2004, 08:13 PM
I never said go after Koskie. I said that Crede has been BETTER than him this year and should only go if he needs to be gone. Paulie at 3B is also a joke. Crawford isn't untouchable - no one is, and I don't know why everyone keeps saying that he is. The D-Rays are terrible and the right package from the right team can land him. Crede/Harris+Honel+Sweeney for example? You want Cotts, too? And it doesn't take a Yankees payroll to come up with this:
2B Harris/Alomar/Vidro
RF Rowand
CF Beltran
DH Thomas
LF Lee
3B Crede
C Davis
1B Segui/Gload
SS Uribe/Harris

Buehrle/Garcia/Contreras/Garland/Diaz
Am I the only one that realizes that Uribe and Crede are garbage? And Robbie is a has been and that pitching rotation....WOW....Teams would be licking their chops to face them. BTW Vidro Signed an extenson...Crawford is is untouchable(only a 23 yr old all-star) and Cattalantto came up as an infielder he could be servicable at 3rd if your that much against Paulie playing 3rd.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:15 PM
I really like your suggestions. The offense wouldn't be all that great, but that starting rotation is filthy. It would be a very good team. I hope KW has a similar idea in mind this offseason. I would love to see a White Sox team which is built around pitching. The hardest part would be signing Clement because a lot of teams are probably going to go after him, including the NY Yankees. However, if they sign Beltran, they might actually have a tougher time being able to make their best offer to Clement.
The Yanks are going to go after Pedro. Millwood, Milton, Clement, El Duque, Morris, Carpenter, Odalis Perez, Derek Lowe, Loaiza, Russ Ortiz, Pavano, Benson, Radke are all available. Surely the Yanks and BoSox can only sign so many before they run out of spots to fill. Besides, I'd rather have Milton anyway. Clement's price will be way too high.

MRKARNO
08-06-2004, 08:19 PM
The Yanks are going to go after Pedro. Millwood, Milton, Clement, El Duque, Morris, Carpenter, Odalis Perez, Derek Lowe, Loaiza, Russ Ortiz, Pavano, Benson, Radke are all available. Surely the Yanks and BoSox can only sign so many before they run out of spots to fill. Besides, I'd rather have Milton anyway. Clement's price will be way too high.
I'm not 100% sure about that, especially with Pedro really having a sub-par season this year. I see them targeting Clement, but that's just one man's opinion. They have Brown, Mussina and Vazquez under contract next year and that's it I believe. Why not go after Pedro AND Clement? These are the Yankees after all...

JRIG
08-06-2004, 08:19 PM
I never said go after Koskie. I said that Crede has been BETTER than him this year and should only go if he needs to be gone.
Crede better than Koskie this year? On what planet?

Koskie: .240/.342/.453
Crede (in a hitter's park): .235/.292/.413

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:22 PM
Am I the only one that realizes that Uribe and Crede are garbage? And Robbie is a has been and that pitching rotation....WOW....Teams would be licking their chops to face them. BTW Vidro Signed an extenson...Crawford is is untouchable(only a 23 yr old all-star) and Cattalantto came up as an infielder he could be servicable at 3rd if your that much against Paulie playing 3rd.
Crede isn't garbage! 3B is a defensive position, which is why I made the comparison to Koskie, who once again has not held down the Twins. Vidro would obviously have to be a trade, just an idea. And what's so pathetic about a rotation of Buehrle/Garcia/Contreras/Garland/Diaz? You said yourself we don't have the Yankees money. And for the last time, NO ONE is untouchable. Especially on a horrible team trying to compete with the Yankees and BoSox.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:23 PM
I'm not 100% sure about that, especially with Pedro really having a sub-par season this year. I see them targeting Clement, but that's just one man's opinion. They have Brown, Mussina and Vazquez under contract next year and that's it I believe. Why not go after Pedro AND Clement? These are the Yankees after all...
True. But I'm sure Clement is in the middle of a bidding war, same goes for Pavano.

MRKARNO
08-06-2004, 08:26 PM
Crede isn't garbage! 3B is a defensive position, which is why I made the comparison to Koskie, who once again has not held down the Twins
Well you should take a look at the third basemen other teams have been trotting out there lately: Lowell, A-rod, Chavez, Rolen, Ramirez, Mora, Beltre, Huff....

Crede isn't even in the same stratosphere as these guys. 3B is a really important offensive position in today's game and we're simply not getting a lot of offense from the hot corner.

JRIG
08-06-2004, 08:29 PM
Well you should take a look at the third basemen other teams have been trotting out there lately: Lowell, A-rod, Chavez, Rolen, Ramirez, Mora, Beltre, Huff....

Crede isn't even in the same stratosphere as these guys. 3B is a really important offensive position in today's game and we're simply not getting a lot of offense from the hot corner.
May I add Blalock as well.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:30 PM
Crede better than Koskie this year? On what planet?

Koskie: .240/.342/.453
Crede (in a hitter's park): .235/.292/.413
ok, so Koskie takes more walks, otherwise there's not a huge difference. My whole basic point though was that he's an issue you deal with when you come to it. He's been above average with the glove and hits at the bottom of the lineup. The real problem is all the 1-2-3 first innings and the fact that no one is on base for the middle of the order (besides Aaron).

OEO Magglio
08-06-2004, 08:31 PM
If we had a smart GM I these would be some of the moves that can be done....

Enough already.

JRIG
08-06-2004, 08:34 PM
ok, so Koskie takes more walks, otherwise there's not a huge difference. My whole basic point though was that he's an issue you deal with when you come to it. He's been above average with the glove and hits at the bottom of the lineup. The real problem is all the 1-2-3 first innings and the fact that no one is on base for the middle of the order (besides Aaron).
50 points of OBP and 40 points of SLG in a HUGE difference, I'm sorry. Crede's been a total zero in the lineup now for most of the past two seasons.

jordan23ventura
08-06-2004, 08:39 PM
Well you should take a look at the third basemen other teams have been trotting out there lately: Lowell, A-rod, Chavez, Rolen, Ramirez, Mora, Beltre, Huff....

Crede isn't even in the same stratosphere as these guys. 3B is a really important offensive position in today's game and we're simply not getting a lot of offense from the hot corner.
You can make a list of great hitters at any position. Many would argue that this has become an offensive game. Point is, that hasn't worked. Defense, defense, defense, and for cheap. We don't have any of those players, we're probably not going to anytime soon, and unless someone comes along with a better glove there's no reason to replace him.

calderon
08-07-2004, 01:42 AM
the sox will not sign a free agent pitcher, In a perfect world I would re-sign Maggs, trade Lee,Crede and Konerko in seperate deals to bring in a 2B,CF and relief help, sign a free agent 3B.....and then wake up and see our 2005 White Sox will be the same as the 2004 White Sox.

Win1ForMe
08-07-2004, 01:51 AM
Crede isn't garbage! 3B is a defensive position, which is why I made the comparison to Koskie, who once again has not held down the Twins.
3B is not a defensive position. Corner infielders should be strong offensive players. "Up the middle" positions are traditionally defensive.

nitetrain8601
08-07-2004, 02:42 AM
Ok, If I'm the Sox I go after leftover pitching from the Yankees because usually most players would rather play for the Yankees over the White Sox. So I say they go after Pedro and let's say Milwood. You still have lots of nice pitching to choose from. Since the Cubs now look like they'll resign Nomar over Alou, then let them. They'll still have to pay Clement and won't want to unless they unload Sammy. Also remember, they want Maggs. So let them have Maggs. Sign Beltran with that money or go after Renteria.

My Team:
1b Paul Konerko
2b Roberto Alomar
3b Joe Crede
ss Orlando Cabrera/Guzman/Clayton(Yes, Clayton)
rf Carlos Beltran
cf Aaron Rowand
lf Carl Everett
c Gregg Zaun

SP:
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras
Clement/Pavano/El Duque(I know El Duque isn't as good as the other two, but he's a cheaper option)
Garland

RP:

LR's:
Neal Cotts
Jon Adkins

MR:
Felix Diaz(prep him up like we did with Buehrle)
Felix Rodriguez

SU:
Damaso marte

Closer:
Shingo Takatsu

Anyone want to do payroll on that?

CWSGuy406
08-07-2004, 03:17 AM
Moneyball, I love your idea for a team - however, I doubt you'd get Hernandez for Borchard and Uribe. One could only wish that to be the case.

Personally - I'd do this:

Trade Lee, and target one of these positions to upgrade from the trade (SS, 2B, 3B, Relief Pitching). See how if you can get some prospects as well.

Trade for Jason Kendall - probably shouldn't cost too much (prospect wise), and he'd be a rock at catcher for at least two more years.

Let Maggs, Valentin, Schoeney all walk. Pickup options on Shingo, Thomas, Everett, Politte.

Sign Clement.

Sign Catalanatto - and depending on the Lee trade, here's what the lineup looks like:

1.)Rowand CF
2.)Kendall C
3.)Thomas DH
4.)Konerko 1B
5.)Everett RF
6.)Catalanatto
7.)....... 3B/SS
8.).......SS/3B
9.)Harris/Uribe 2B

Bullpen of: Adkins, Diaz, Politte, Shingo, Marte, FA Pickup.
Rotation of: Garcia, Buehrle, Clement, Contreras, Garland.

Thoughts?