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View Full Version : Breaking News White Sox Reaquire Robbie Alomar


bartmanisgod
08-05-2004, 11:41 AM
Just heard on ESPN1000 Bruce Levine reports that the White Sox get Robbie Alomar for cash!
:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

:dtroll: :dtroll:
:gulp: :gulp:

joeynach
08-05-2004, 11:41 AM
The sox just acquired Robbie Alomar from the D-back reports Bruce levine of AM 1000. Its like deja vu.

Rocky Soprano
08-05-2004, 11:41 AM
Just heard from a friend who heard in on ESPN 1000.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 11:42 AM
how many more prospects did we give up for his sorry azz? We need a pitcher right? *** is going on?:(: :angry: :redneck :redface: :mad: :o: :wink:

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:43 AM
Wow - I really don't get which direction we're heading.

bartmanisgod
08-05-2004, 11:43 AM
how many more prospects did we give up for his sorry azz?
ZERO!

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:45 AM
So now he plays 2nd, and Willie Harris gets to sit?

CubKilla
08-05-2004, 11:45 AM
Wow - I really don't get which direction we're heading.
Down

SOXSINCE'70
08-05-2004, 11:45 AM
Best way to describe this acquisition::dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

CubKilla
08-05-2004, 11:46 AM
Why are the White Sox reacquiring players who couldn't get it done when facing less of a deficit in '03 for '04?

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:47 AM
Down
This is what gets me. So is the Willie Harris experiment now over? Is Alomar the second baseman next year, with Harris to center and Rowand to right? Does anybody know?

joeynach
08-05-2004, 11:47 AM
Just heard on ESPN1000 Bruce Levine reports that the White Sox get Robbie Alomar for cash!
:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

:dtroll: :dtroll:
:gulp: :gulp:
It looks like im not the only one who listens to espn 1000 from 8am to 5pm continuously at work.

34rancher
08-05-2004, 11:47 AM
how many more prospects did we give up for his sorry azz? We need a pitcher right? *** is going on?:(: :angry: :redneck :redface: :mad: :o: :wink:
player to be named later

JRIG
08-05-2004, 11:47 AM
Utterly insane. I have no words at the moment.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 11:47 AM
Wow - I really don't get which direction we're heading.Agreed... didn't this fail last year too? Maybe we can pick Loiaza off of Waivers after last night performance?

Jerry Manuel For BENCH COACH... Bring him back KW!!!

34rancher
08-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Agreed... didn't this fail last year too? Maybe we can pick Loiaza off of Waivers after last night performance?

Jerry Manuel For BENCH COACH... Bring him back KW!!!

Scott Sullivan anyone?

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:48 AM
player to be named later
And that player to be named later will be none other than Robbie Alomar. (It's actually happened - the Cubs unloaded Dickie Noles to Detroit for a player to be named later who turned out to be Dickie Noles after the season).

CubKilla
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
player to be named later
Jesus Christ :rolleyes:

bartmanisgod
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
It looks like im not the only one who listens to espn 1000 from 8am to 5pm continuously at work.

You know it! :cool:

WinTwins
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
Is this move designed to help the Sox? Alomar hasn't been an above-average 2B for several years. He's a downgrade from Harris.

KW: "Hey, Everett and Alomar that didn't help last year...let's try it again."

34rancher
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
And that player to be named later will be none other than Robbie Alomar. (It's actually happened - the Cubs unloaded Dickie Noles to Detroit for a player to be named later who turned out to be Dickie Noles after the season).

Can we name him now then? :)

Aidan
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
It's like deja vu all over again. :tongue:

Deadguy
08-05-2004, 11:51 AM
So how much longer do we have to wait until Tony G. and Brian Daubach return?

JohnBasedowYoda
08-05-2004, 11:52 AM
we're nothing but a revolving door. as a fan i feel foolish to be rooting for this team.

Over By There
08-05-2004, 11:52 AM
Isn't there some bad blood between Robbie and the Sox? It seemed like the contract negotiations over the off season were not pleasant? Sort of a head-scratcher here. :?:

I guess we're looking at Willie sitting most days unless we move Aaron to RF and bench Timo.

Jerko
08-05-2004, 11:53 AM
We're all forgetting the most important thing here: What number is Ben Davis going to wear now? He was just getting better and now they're gonna make him change numbers!

Aidan
08-05-2004, 11:53 AM
Robbie has actually been lighting it up lately...

Roberto Alomar (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4189)
110 AB
.309 AVG
.382 OBP
3 HR
16 RBI

WHarris13
08-05-2004, 11:54 AM
Robbie has actually been lighting it up lately...

Roberto Alomar (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4189)
110 AB
.309 AVG
.382 OBP
3 HR
16 RBIThank you, I was just gonna say...Robbie is doing pretty damn well.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 11:54 AM
I don't know what others think but here is the picture in my head...

I have two cats, and one laser pen. The one cat could care less, but the other cat lives for every second that the laser pen is on... I can get this cat to spin around in circles chasing the light on the ground for MINUTES ON END until it falls over because it is so dizzy...

Does this move make us any better? Or is kenny just chasing his laser? I feel pretty sick right now... who hired this guy and why is he still here? 6.0 back of the twins 4.5 back of the WC and... whoa getting sick again.... I... w.w.w.w.... pffft... I don't know.

CubKilla
08-05-2004, 11:54 AM
we're nothing but a revolving door. as a fan i feel foolish to be rooting for this team.
Truly :angry:

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 11:55 AM
Do you guys know those players that CAN GET A FREAKING BUNT DOWN AND HIT A SAC FLY. That is Robbie Alomar. Welcome back.

Uncle_Patrick
08-05-2004, 11:55 AM
The season has been saved!

Alomar accepted less money to play in Arizona than what the White Sox offered him to play here, and yet, he's coming back to Chicago. I do love the irony.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 11:55 AM
Thank you, I was just gonna say...Robbie is doing pretty damn well.Yes, he is actually the lead-off man we needed. Too bad it took us this long to get him. :whiner:

Brian26
08-05-2004, 11:56 AM
The sox just acquired Robbie Alomar from the D-back reports Bruce levine of AM 1000. Its like deja vu.

Wow, it's truly like reliving the nightmare of the last 2 months of 2003 all over again.

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 11:56 AM
Wow - I really don't get which direction we're heading.
Well Kenny has never went in a direction for more then a year. Right now, he is struggling to grasp at anything to pull this team out of its tail spin. If Robbie produces like he did in July (.421/.540 in 50AB), this is a good move. Robbie has only 110 at bats this season, so that hot July push all of his numbers way up. Robbie isn't signed for next year, so not sure what this means for then.

Brian26
08-05-2004, 11:57 AM
This is what gets me. So is the Willie Harris experiment now over? Is Alomar the second baseman next year, with Harris to center and Rowand to right? Does anybody know?

And the BIZARRE part is that Willie had one of his best games of the year the other night.

Jjav829
08-05-2004, 11:57 AM
I have no problem with this move. We gave up nothing and we clearly need a change if we're gonna win this year. The only question is who goes. Someone has to be sent down or released to make room. Does Borchard get sent back down and we rely on Timo and Gload in right? I don't know. I can't say this move hurts though. If he can continue to do what he was doing in Arizona, this should work out well.

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
Yes, he is actually the lead-off man we needed. Too bad it took us this long to get him. :whiner:
But this is the same guy we had last year. The fact that he's hitting now means he'll probably cool off down the road (if averages are to believed). If he were 25 years old then he's got some upside, but we know exactly what we're getting here - the same guy we let go last year.

I don't get it.

CHISOXFAN13
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
I'm actually confiused as to why most everyone is upset about this move.

The guy has a very high OBP and like SOXOS said, he is a fundamentally sound ball player.

Myself, I am sick and tired of watching a guy with as much speed as Harris who can't bunt.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
how many more prospects did we give up for his sorry azz? We need a pitcher right? *** is going on?:(: :angry: :redneck :redface: :mad: :o: :wink:As bad as some of our pitchers have been, we NEED a consistent offense, not another pitcher. If Alomar brings that, fantastic. Can he play short stop?

Deadguy
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
Robbie has actually been lighting it up lately...

Roberto Alomar (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4189)
110 AB
.309 AVG
.382 OBP
3 HR
16 RBI
It seems more like he just lit it up, last night.

Just looking at his game logs, he hasn't been playing regularly as recent as this past week. What's the deal? Was Arizona just not playing him regularly to give younger guys a shot to play, or is he still not 100%?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=4189

Gimm
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
Utterly insane. I have no words at the moment.
Unless the PTBNL is MaCarthy/Sweeney/Anderson/Young/Diaz/
Bajenaru/Honel/Cotts/Munoz/Borchard/Crede/Uribe.....It's a VERY good deal.

CHISOXFAN13
08-05-2004, 11:59 AM
I have no problem with this move. We gave up nothing and we clearly need a change if we're gonna win this year. The only question is who goes. Someone has to be sent down or released to make room. Does Borchard get sent back down and we rely on Timo and Gload in right? I don't know. I can't say this move hurts though. If he can continue to do what he was doing in Arizona, this should work out well.


I'd say Borchard goes down and Willie will get some AB's in center with Rowand playing right.

Fungo
08-05-2004, 12:00 PM
Haven't we read this book before?

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:01 PM
It seems more like he just lit it up, last night.

Just looking at his game logs, he hasn't been playing regularly as recent as this past week. What's the deal? Was Arizona just not playing him regularly to give younger guys a shot to play, or is he still not 100%?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=4189
Yes, Robbie got playing time at the start of the year, and just utterly sucked so much he was benched.

Nard
08-05-2004, 12:01 PM
The second part of this operation better be LTP's ass getting sent down. I am sick of him.

Can Robbie play SS?

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 12:03 PM
Well I can't say I'm a big fan of Robbie Alomar, however he's an upgrade over Willie Harris and we gave up nothing, so why not?

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 12:03 PM
Can Robbie play SS?No.

Jerko
08-05-2004, 12:04 PM
I have no problem with this move. We gave up nothing and we clearly need a change if we're gonna win this year. The only question is who goes. Someone has to be sent down or released to make room. Does Borchard get sent back down and we rely on Timo and Gload in right? I don't know. I can't say this move hurts though. If he can continue to do what he was doing in Arizona, this should work out well.
I don't see this as a "change", I think that's what's bothering people here.
But, since we have done this, maybe Willie can play CF and Rowand in right? It's just infuriating to pick up the same exact guys as last year when we HAD everybody else healthy. It didn't work then, it probably won't work now. And please, I know we have Garcia and Contreras now, but last year when we got Everett and Alomar we also had the good E-lo and Colon which is probably a "wash". What's next? Shoeneweis benched for Paniagua?

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:04 PM
It seems more like he just lit it up, last night.

Just looking at his game logs, he hasn't been playing regularly as recent as this past week. What's the deal? Was Arizona just not playing him regularly to give younger guys a shot to play, or is he still not 100%?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=4189Robbie was originally Arizona's starting 2B at the beggining of the season but he was later benched in favor of the younger Scott Hairston as part of Arizona's "youth movement". Hairston went down with an injury so Robbie got to be the starter again.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 12:05 PM
I'd say Borchard goes down and Willie will get some AB's in center with Rowand playing right.
If Willie Plays Center I will hang my self tonight... If the of doesn't have Lee, Rowand, TIMO or Everett in it than this move is a wash... Borchard and Gload are at the top of my list for assignment!

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:05 PM
Robbie was originally Arizona's starting 2B at the beggining of the season but he was later benched in favor of the younger Scott Hairston as part of Arizona's "youth movement". Hairston went down with an injury so Robbie got to be the starter again.
Actually Mike Kata was also tried and has more at bats then Robbie.

Deadguy
08-05-2004, 12:06 PM
Yes, Robbie got playing time at the start of the year, and just utterly sucked so much he was benched.
I'm referring to the time period after he returned from his injury, and Arizona had fallen out of the race.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:06 PM
You can't say very good, because Alomar is a big question mark. We don't know how he will play. If he keeps up his pace which he has put up in past month in Zona, it looks good. But Robbie has sucked since 2001 so is turn around real?Hopefully, your constant negativity will make Robbie want to get back to his old form so he can stuff it in your face.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 12:06 PM
It seems more like he just lit it up, last night.

Just looking at his game logs, he hasn't been playing regularly as recent as this past week. What's the deal? Was Arizona just not playing him regularly to give younger guys a shot to play, or is he still not 100%?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=4189
If you look at the game log, he hasn't been playing against lefties, which is exactly the area where we've struggled. This gives us 4 middlie infielders, all unable to hit LHP. I like Robbie but don't really understand the move.

soxtalker
08-05-2004, 12:06 PM
Unless the PTBNL is MaCarthy/Sweeney/Anderson/Young/Diaz/
Bajenaru/Honel/Cotts/Munoz/Borchard/Crede/Uribe.....It's a VERY good deal.
Doesn't PTBNL usually mean that the level or quality of the player sent back in return depends upon how well the traded player (RA in this case) plays?

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 12:08 PM
Yes, Robbie got playing time at the start of the year, and just utterly sucked so much he was benched.Well, he broke his hand after 13 games. I don't know if you can say some utterly sucks after a small sample size like that.

JRIG
08-05-2004, 12:08 PM
Hopefully, your constant negativity will make Robbie want to get back to his old form so he can stuff it in your face.
It hasn't worked on Kenny Williams yet, so why start now?

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:09 PM
Doesn't PTBNL usually mean that the level or quality of the player sent back in return depends upon how well the traded player (RA in this case) plays?
Yes and no, could be Zone and Sox have an idea on who just it is between a couple players and didn't want to hold up sending Robbie over. So make the deal now and talk about exactly who later.

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:10 PM
Well, he broke his game after 13 games. I don't know if you can say some utterly sucks after a small sample size like that.
It was a small sample size but it was in line with his production for 2002 and 2003.

34rancher
08-05-2004, 12:10 PM
a slightly different thought by the way.......
since we are after the waiver-free trade period, to get him, everyother team in baseball had to pass him up for the trade to be approved right? Oh, KW must know something that everyone else does not.

samram
08-05-2004, 12:10 PM
You can't say very good, because Alomar is a big question mark. We don't know how he will play. If he keeps up his pace which he has put up in past month in Zona, it looks good. But Robbie has sucked since 2001 so is turn around real?
I don't think it matters if the turnaround is real or not, because he won't be here next year (I don't think). So what matters is if he can play like he has this past month for the next two months, not whether he will go back to the 20/90-100 guy he was with Cleveland.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:10 PM
No.Why not? Let him try SS. At least he probably won't let foul pop ups drop out of his glove in the 9th against the Twins.

Wealz
08-05-2004, 12:11 PM
The biggest potential positive from this would be if R. Alomar's return means we never see S. Alomar again

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:11 PM
I don't think it matters if the turnaround is real or not, because he won't be here next year (I don't think). So what matters is if he can play like he has this past month for the next two months, not whether he will go back to the 20/90-100 guy he was with Cleveland.
But for this team to have a chance, we need the Cleveland Robbie.

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:12 PM
a slightly different thought by the way.......
since we are after the waiver-free trade period, to get him, everyother team in baseball had to pass him up for the trade to be approved right? Oh, KW must know something that everyone else does not.
Or the Sox claimed him on waivers, which could be the reason the PTBNL was traded. I believe their is a time frame on how soon a deal needs to be finished between waiver claim and trade announcement.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:12 PM
It was a small sample size but it was in line with his production for 2002 and 2003.So now that Robbie is hitting .309 with a .382 OBP in 110 at bats, is it still too small of a sample size? :rolleyes:

Fungo
08-05-2004, 12:12 PM
"Ben Davis, please report to the equipment room and bring your #12 jersey with you."

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:13 PM
Yes and no, could be Zone and Sox have an idea on who just it is between a couple players and didn't want to hold up sending Robbie over. So make the deal now and talk about exactly who later.Also could be someone we drafted this year, as we are not allowed to officialy trade someone for the first 6 months or year or something like that.

Jerko
08-05-2004, 12:13 PM
Well, he broke his hand after 13 games. I don't know if you can say some utterly sucks after a small sample size like that.
Agreed, but look at the sample size everyone is using to proclaim his greatness: 109 at bats? I guess we can just hope he plays well for the rest of the year and let's juse see what happens?

joeynach
08-05-2004, 12:14 PM
It seems more like he just lit it up, last night.

Just looking at his game logs, he hasn't been playing regularly as recent as this past week. What's the deal? Was Arizona just not playing him regularly to give younger guys a shot to play, or is he still not 100%?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=4189
Well if we gave up absoulty nothing to get him how can this be bad. We all rant here about how we have a lack of depth. We just added some in one form or another. Now we either have robbie, uribe, or harris coming off the bench. And giving up nothing this cant possibly be bad.

JRIG
08-05-2004, 12:14 PM
So now that Robbie is hitting .309 with a .382 OBP in 110 at bats, is it still too small of a sample size? :rolleyes:
You mean as opposed to the 1,006 previous at bats of utter crap before the 110 at bats this year?

Yes.

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:15 PM
Also could be someone we drafted this year, as we are not allowed to officialy trade someone for the first 6 months or year or something like that.
You have to name your PTBNL with in six months, so it can't be. That move is usally used in Winter trades

samram
08-05-2004, 12:15 PM
But for this team to have a chance, we need the Cleveland Robbie.
That could be. For all we know, this could have just been a desperation move by KW to show that management isn't giving up. I can't imagine they're expecting him to hit third and drive in 40 runs the rest of the year, as the Cleveland Robbie would have.

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 12:15 PM
Also could be someone we drafted this year, as we are not allowed to officialy trade someone for the first 6 months or year or something like that.It's a year and to answer your question about moving robbie to shortstop, you don't take a guy at the end of his career (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=502,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1) who has lost ranger and move him from 2nd to short, it just wouldn't work

34rancher
08-05-2004, 12:16 PM
Or the Sox claimed him on waivers, which could be the reason the PTBNL was traded. I believe their is a time frame on how soon a deal needs to be finished between waiver claim and trade announcement.

Good point.

habibharu
08-05-2004, 12:17 PM
just when i thought that this moron couldnt do anything dumber, he goes out and gets robbie FREAKING alomar. what the **** are you thinking KW? what the hell is alomar gonna do for us!!!!????? :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:17 PM
The biggest potential positive from this would be if R. Alomar's return means we never see S. Alomar againI don't think I'll ever understand all the hatred for Sandy Alomar. He calls almost every game for the Sox - either catching or from the bench. He isn't the worst hitter on this team by a long shot. He's a valuable backup and wants to be nothing more than that. I hope he will be with the organization for years to come - as a coach, manager, etc.

samram
08-05-2004, 12:17 PM
Or the Sox claimed him on waivers, which could be the reason the PTBNL was traded. I believe their is a time frame on how soon a deal needs to be finished between waiver claim and trade announcement.
That makes sense, since the Sox are toward the bottom of the contenders list, and only contenders would even have bothered looking at him. So the Sox may have had the first chance to claim him.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:17 PM
You mean as opposed to the 1,006 previous at bats of utter crap before the 110 at bats this year?

Yes.Who do you guys want leading off or in the 2 spot? Willie Harris, Juan Uribe? At least Robbie can lay a damn bunt down and get on base. Willie has all the speed in the world but can't even use it because he keeps hitting bouncers to the second baseman. Uribe has been in a massive slump. Having Robbie Alomar and Aaron Rowand at the top of the order is a HUGE upgrade.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 12:18 PM
Well if we gave up absoulty nothing to get him how can this be bad. We all rant here about how we have a lack of depth. We just added some in one form or another. Now we either have robbie, uribe, or harris coming off the bench. And giving up nothing this cant possibly be bad.
Exactly. As far as I can tell,sentiment here is "this is a bad move because we didn't make a better one". We gave up nothing for him. If he can play like he has the last month, it's a great deal. If he can't, then all he cost us was a roster spot.

Heck - if it doesn't work out, we can always place him on waivers and trade him back to Arizona as the PTBNL!

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 12:19 PM
That could be. For all we know, this could have just been a desperation move by KW to show that management isn't giving up. I can't imagine they're expecting him to hit third and drive in 40 runs the rest of the year, as the Cleveland Robbie would have.
Honestly, that what I think this is, a desperation move. Now how could that be bad, while we have to ask whether or not, the team would be better served by letting Uribe and Harris play, to give them playing time and time for our staff to work with and evaluate them. By adding Robbie, I think the Sox take that playing time away, without significantly increasing your chances at the playoffs.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 12:19 PM
Agreed, but look at the sample size everyone is using to proclaim his greatness: 109 at bats? I guess we can just hope he plays well for the rest of the year and let's juse see what happens?
I don't expect him to be a .309 hitter for the rest of the year, but if he can stay at .270-.280 with a .360 OBP, that wouldn't be too bad. I guess it depends on who he replaces in the lineup. If it's Harris, I don't see a point, but if it's the Borchard/Gload/Perez combo then it should be a solid move.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:20 PM
It's a year and to answer your question about moving robbie to shortstop, you don't take a guy at the end of his career (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=502,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1) who has lost ranger and move him from 2nd to short, it just wouldn't work
Then what about Willie to SS. Or even just putting Juan there everyday. Anything to get Jose out of the lineup. 4 middle infielders, 3 of them being primarily second basemen, on a team seems like a log jam to me though.

Iron Dragon
08-05-2004, 12:20 PM
I'm a little disappointed we didn't sign Olerud to go with Alomar. If he's good enough for the Yankees, he's good enough for the Sox. I hope Alomar adds a little punch to the O. Go Sox!

PorkChopExpress
08-05-2004, 12:20 PM
Do you guys know those players that CAN GET A FREAKING BUNT DOWN AND HIT A SAC FLY. That is Robbie Alomar. Welcome back.
AMEN!

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 12:21 PM
That makes sense, since the Sox are toward the bottom of the contenders list, and only contenders would even have bothered looking at him. So the Sox may have had the first chance to claim him.
Actually, I think all NL teams got first crack, and then he would clear the AL waivers. Could very well be wrong on that though.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 12:22 PM
I'm a little disappointed we didn't sign Olerud to go with Alomar. If he's good enough for the Yankees, he's good enough for the Sox. I hope Alomar adds a little punch to the O. Go Sox!
It was widely reported that Olerud turneddown chances to go to a number of teams until the Yanks called. I dont' think he'd have come here.

JRIG
08-05-2004, 12:22 PM
Do you guys know those players that CAN GET A FREAKING BUNT DOWN AND HIT A SAC FLY. That is Robbie Alomar. Welcome back.

AMEN!We are encouraged by the arrival of a player whose main asset appears to be making outs. Wonderful.

samram
08-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Honestly, that what I think this is, a desperation move. Now how could that be bad, while we have to ask whether or not, the team would be better served by letting Uribe and Harris play, to give them playing time and time for our staff to work with and evaluate them. By adding Robbie, I think the Sox take that playing time away, without significantly increasing your chances at the playoffs.
I think that's right. One thing they could possibly do to keep both Harris and Uribe in the lineup would be to bench Valentin, put Uribe at SS, and put Harris in CF. Uribe and Alomar would be solid defensively, if nothing else. I can't see them benching Jose, but it would allow Willie and Juan to stay in the lineup.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 12:24 PM
We are encouraged by the arrival of a player whose main asset appears to be making outs. Wonderful.
I don't know, but I think the baseball IQ of this team just doubled.

Deadguy
08-05-2004, 12:25 PM
just when i thought that this moron couldnt do anything dumber, he goes out and gets robbie FREAKING alomar. what the **** are you thinking KW? what the hell is alomar gonna do for us!!!!????? :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry::KW
"If at first you don't succeed, fail, fail again."

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-05-2004, 12:26 PM
i don't see how this move hurts us. if we don't make the playoffs, it's not roberto's fault. if he can do some smart hitting, i'll love it. i don't think anyone has heard of a sac fly on this team since maggs and frank went down.

bafiarocks03
08-05-2004, 12:26 PM
What the heck are we doing.....???.......we have Uribe and Harris....that are good.....man...i don't get it....KW what are you doing!!!!!!!1:angry:

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 12:27 PM
What the heck are we doing.....???.......we have Uribe and Harris....that are good.....man...i don't get it....KW what are you doing!!!!!!!1:angry:Since when are uribe and harris good?

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 12:27 PM
I think that's right. One thing they could possibly do to keep both Harris and Uribe in the lineup would be to bench Valentin, put Uribe at SS, and put Harris in CF. Uribe and Alomar would be solid defensively, if nothing else. I can't see them benching Jose, but it would allow Willie and Juan to stay in the lineup.
Are you people for real??? Bench Valentin in favore of WILLIE HARRIS??? are you guys really cubs fans?

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-05-2004, 12:27 PM
What the heck are we doing.....???.......we have Uribe and Harris....that are good.....man...i don't get it....KW what are you doing!!!!!!!1:angry: Uribe? Good?

:chunks

JB98
08-05-2004, 12:27 PM
My reaction to this move is complete indifference. Robbie is not good enough to get us over the top this year, so I'm not excited. And I'm not disappointed either because I'm not concerned about him taking at-bats away from Harris. I've already seen enough from Willie to know he's nothing more than a bench player at this level. I have concerns about the Sox 2B situation both short-term and long-term, and this move does nothing to change that.

34rancher
08-05-2004, 12:28 PM
we claimed him off waivers per am 670

samram
08-05-2004, 12:28 PM
Actually, I think all NL teams got first crack, and then he would clear the AL waivers. Could very well be wrong on that though.
That could be, but even then, if you look at contenders in the NL who need a 2B, it's not a long list. Atlanta, StL, Cubs, Astros, Reds, Marlins, Phillies, Dodgers, Giants, and Padres all have that spot filled. In the AL, I believe only the Indians have a worse record than the Sox among teams over .500, if Cleveland is even still over, and they have Belliard.

Deadguy
08-05-2004, 12:28 PM
Do you guys know those players that CAN GET A FREAKING BUNT DOWN AND HIT A SAC FLY. That is Robbie Alomar. Welcome back.
:KW
"Our scouts were more impressed with Robbie's late-inning decoy abilities."

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:28 PM
What the heck are we doing.....???.......we have Uribe and Harris....that are good.....man...i don't get it....KW what are you doing!!!!!!!1:angry:Juan Uribe
.259 AVG
.315 OBP

Willie Harris
.263 AVG
.356 OBP

Robbie Alomar
.309 AVG
.382 OBP


You do the math.

DirtySouthsider
08-05-2004, 12:30 PM
I don't know, but I think the baseball IQ of this team just doubled.

Yes......I agree 100% !......that is the point of this trade (being they gave up nothing for him)

bafiarocks03
08-05-2004, 12:31 PM
Uribe? Good?

:chunks
yes he is good.....he makes great plays at 2nd....same with Willie!!!

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:31 PM
Are you people for real??? Bench Valentin in favore of WILLIE HARRIS??? are you guys really cubs fans?.228 average for Jose. I'd bench him for Choice right now - at least he doesn't make errors.

samram
08-05-2004, 12:31 PM
Are you people for real??? Bench Valentin in favore of WILLIE HARRIS??? are you guys really cubs fans?
I didn't say that it should be done. I responded to Dawg's post that it may not be beneficial to take Willie and Uribe out of the lineup, and I stated a way to possibly do that.

And no, I'm not a Cubs fan.

lowesox
08-05-2004, 12:32 PM
Depending on who we gave up, bringing in Robbie is a good move. Like somebody else mentioned, he can bunt and hit sac flies and that's a quality sorely missing from this team. He'd be a very good number 2 hitter.

More than anything else, this is also a message that Kenny's going to keep building this team even though many here have given up on them. Which, when you take into account what we've sacrificed already for this season, would be stupid not to do.

Let's hope the player isn't Sweeney, Honel or Anderson.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 12:32 PM
Yes......I agree 100% !......that is the point of this trade (being they gave up nothing for him)They Gave up CASH and a PTBNL

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040805&content_id=819872&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:32 PM
yes he is good.....he makes great plays at 2nd....same with Willie!!!That's about all they've both been good for lately -- defense. Robbie Alomar can field AND hit.

DirtySouthsider
08-05-2004, 12:36 PM
They Gave up CASH and a PTBNL

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040805&content_id=819872&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp

Relatively speaking.....nothing. I would like to assume the PTBNL will be a nobody...being that Robbie is old and cheap and D-Backs just wanted to get rid of him.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 12:36 PM
"Alomar, who hit .253 (64-253) in 67 games with the White Sox last season, will rejoin his brother, Sandy, Friday at U.S. Cellular Field. "

I guess the 7 Hour long Flights from Phoenix to Kansas City were all booked up? He must be thrilled to be back if he Can't make it to at least sit on the bench... What if we need him as a decoy?

A. Cavatica
08-05-2004, 12:39 PM
Unless the PTBNL is MaCarthy/Sweeney/Anderson/Young/Diaz/
Bajenaru/Honel/Cotts/Munoz/Borchard/Crede/Uribe.....It's a VERY good deal.
Arizona gets to pick any two of the better prospects in this group, or three of the lesser ones.

Gimm
08-05-2004, 12:40 PM
Juan Uribe
.259 AVG
.315 OBP

Willie Harris
.263 AVG
.356 OBP

Robbie Alomar
.309 AVG
.382 OBP


You do the math.These numbers are deceiving. Uribe has been mind-boglingy bad for almost 2 months now, and (as was the case with Loaiza ) Sox realized he will not improve without a major overhaul of his swing mechanics and mental approach, which won't come until the next off-season.

Robbie has finally realized that his power is gone and has been able to successfully adjust his game accordingly to become a good top-of-the-order guy - against RHP anyway. He will not make the Sox into an offensive juggernaut, but if used properly, he could help us turn some of those corpseballish 1-run losses into 1-run WINS.

Sox shouldn't stop here, though.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:42 PM
Sox shouldn't stop here, though.Yeah, let's dump the whole farm system in waiver deals. Who cares what we get in exchange!

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 12:44 PM
What bothers me about this move is not the actual acquisition of Alomar, it's the fact that we've once again gotten a bit of insight into what's going on inside of Kenny Williams' head.

Obviously we're not committed to the development of those with potential - at least not this year, so we're going for the division..........right? With Robbie Alomar?

Now a youngster gets sent down, and another one sits. And next year - when Alomar is gone again, we're left wondering if some of these younger players can play. Now if Robbie Alomar were the "final piece of the puzzle", I can see the move, but I don't think any of our glaring weaknesses are addressed by this move.

JRIG
08-05-2004, 12:44 PM
These numbers are deceiving. Uribe has been mind-boglingy bad for almost 2 months now, and (as was the case with Loaiza ) Sox realized he will not improve without a major overhaul of his swing mechanics and mental approach, which won't come until the next off-season.

Robbie has finally realized that his power is gone and has been able to successfully adjust his game accordingly to become a good top-of-the-order guy - against RHP anyway. He will not make the Sox into an offensive juggernaut, but if used properly, he could help us turn some of those corpseballish 1-run losses into 1-run WINS.

Sox shouldn't stop here, though.
The difference is this. Alomar sat his butt on the bench when he was hitting like my grandma. He's had a stretch of 51 awful at bats this year and 59 great at bats recently. Uribe has been forced to keep playing even though he's been awful. Uribe this year has a stretch of 170 great at bats and now 169 awful at bats.

Gimm
08-05-2004, 12:45 PM
Yeah, let's dump the whole farm system in waiver deals. Who cares what we get in exchange!
:rolleyes:

Soxzilla
08-05-2004, 12:48 PM
So when do world series tickets go on sale?

PINWHEELS
08-05-2004, 12:48 PM
:KW Robbie Alomar is what I call a GRINDER! So if you don't like this Move you can call me on my cell phone!(1-312 EAT- S**T)

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:50 PM
Yeah, let's dump the whole farm system in waiver deals. Who cares what we get in exchange!We don't even know what prospect it will be. Come back and bitch in 6 months when the prospect is finally chosen.
Now a youngster gets sent down, and another one sits. And next year - when Alomar is gone again, we're left wondering if some of these younger players can play.Isn't that what winter ball and Spring Training are for?

LASOXFAN
08-05-2004, 12:50 PM
Wow, I bet Minnesota is quivering in their cleats right now. "Robbie Alomar again??"

Or maybe that's just laughter.

what a ridiculous move. those of you lost in the delusion that this team is going anywhere but into a dogfight for second place in the AL Central should really seek professional help.

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Kenny's Getting the Band back together.


:KW
Ma-am we're on a mission from god!

:bluesbros
Dry white toast, Four Fried Chickens and a Coke please.
:jaime
I got the Car packed fellas, see you at the park on friday!

Gimm
08-05-2004, 12:55 PM
.Now if Robbie Alomar were the "final piece of the puzzle", I can see the move, but I don't think any of our glaring weaknesses are addressed by this move.Then you're not watching enough White Sox or baseball in general.

We still have a hole in the rotation and BP, but the Diaz-for-Schoeneweis switch addresses both.

Crede and Valentin will be juuuust fine at 3B and SS. Just watch.

Now....it all depends on Frank's and Magglio's condition. We still need a middle-of-the-line-up slugger in the Delgado/Walker mold. Hopefully, somone talks some sense into one of them in the next 2 weeks.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 12:56 PM
Even ESPN is making a joke out of the reacquisition of Robbie Alomar. Here is their headline...

"Roberto Alomar traded to White Sox -- again"
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1852664

Gimm
08-05-2004, 12:56 PM
.what a ridiculous move. those of you lost in the delusion that this team is going anywhere but into a dogfight for second place in the AL Central should really seek professional help.
Don't flatter yourself.

HebrewHammer
08-05-2004, 12:58 PM
Is it just me or does Kenny act more like a video game GM than a real baseball GM, making trades for guys with higher ratings rather than on sound baseball knowledge. The Carl Everett and Robbie Alomar move remind me of something I'd do playing Baseball Mogul.

I do think it sends a good message that he's not going to give up, but it really has me scratching my head, if you're going to keep making moves why not go all out? Add Beltran and Kendall and pick up a starting pitcher instead of this patchwork stuff.

What would really help this team is having Frank and Magglio back in the lineup. Any word on them yet?

pczarapa
08-05-2004, 12:59 PM
I like the move, hell why not, Alomar is a gamer. He's also been having a decent year even though he hasn't played much because of the broken hand earlier in the season. At least KW is trying to do something and Alomar can still play. The Sox still have 58 games left this season, so 6 games is certainly not insurmountable.

By the way, Alomar was 4 for 5 last night with 3 rbis. I think we can fit production like that in our lineup.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 12:59 PM
We don't even know what prospect it will be. Come back and bitch in 6 months when the prospect is finally chosen.
I would like to clear up that my statement was for the idea "Sox shouldn't stop here though." I don't care who we gave up as a PTBNL in this deal and I don't think KW is making the farm system worse with this trade. But if he keeps going with trades, who is he going to get that could really help this team for nothing but cash and PTBNL's?

Tekijawa
08-05-2004, 01:01 PM
The Sox still have 58 games left this season, so 6 games is certainly not insurmountable.
Especially when Schoenewiess will probably only pitch 11 of those!

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:02 PM
Crede and Valentin will be juuuust fine at 3B and SS. Just watch.Oh, I've been watching, and I completely disagree with that statement. Of the two, Crede has a better chance to help the team in almost any situation - which is sad for Jose.

HITMEN OF 77
08-05-2004, 01:03 PM
I like the move, hell why not, Alomar is a gamer. He's also been having a decent year even though he hasn't played much because of the broken hand earlier in the season. At least KW is trying to do something and Alomar can still play. The Sox still have 58 games left this season, so 6 games is certainly not insurmountable.

By the way, Alomar was 4 for 5 last night with 3 rbis. I think we can fit production like that in our lineup.
My thoughts exactly. With him and Rowand on the top end of the order, we should be in good shape, compared to Harris.

pczarapa
08-05-2004, 01:03 PM
Especially when Schoenewiess will probably only pitch 11 of those!

Ha!! :gulp:

bartmanisgod
08-05-2004, 01:04 PM
yes he is good.....he makes great plays at 2nd....same with Willie!!!

Yeah my mistake...they make great plays... we better not replace them with a 12 time gold glove winner

JRIG
08-05-2004, 01:04 PM
The Sox still have 58 games left this season, so 6 games is certainly not insurmountable.

If Minnesota just plays .500 baseball the rest of the way, the Sox need to go 35-23 the rest of the way to catch them. Without Frank and Mags, that's clos to insurmountable.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:05 PM
Now....it all depends on Frank's and Magglio's condition. We still need a middle-of-the-line-up slugger in the Delgado/Walker mold. Hopefully, somone talks some sense into one of them in the next 2 weeks.Someone's going to talk some sense into their legs to get them to stop being injured? It's not like the two of them are slumping - they're hurt! What would talking sense into them do?

Iron Dragon
08-05-2004, 01:06 PM
It was widely reported that Olerud turneddown chances to go to a number of teams until the Yanks called. I dont' think he'd have come here.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you, or anybody else, know whether or not we even tried for him? Also, I'd rather see KW try and do SOMETHING (Alomar), rather than nothing at all.

Kilroy
08-05-2004, 01:08 PM
This is just a dumb move.

It doesn't improve this team at all. It seems more like a move made just for the sake of making a move.

1917
08-05-2004, 01:09 PM
Lets get Scott Sullivan back while we are at it....this proves one thing...Kenny isn't done.....

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 01:09 PM
Is it just me or does Kenny act more like a video game GM than a real baseball GM, making trades for guys with higher ratings rather than on sound baseball knowledge. The Carl Everett and Robbie Alomar move remind me of something I'd do playing Baseball Mogul.

I do think it sends a good message that he's not going to give up, but it really has me scratching my head, if you're going to keep making moves why not go all out? Add Beltran and Kendall and pick up a starting pitcher instead of this patchwork stuff.

What would really help this team is having Frank and Magglio back in the lineup. Any word on them yet?
Again - what's the downside to this move? Not giving Uribe & Harris more ABs to "show what they can do"? We gave up NOTHING to get Robbie (and yes, I'm assuming the PTBNL is Alomar or a very low level prospect).

As for Beltran/Kendall, the former will cost a ton (still), and the latter costs a ton in terms of his contract. Robbie cam free, doens't make a lot, and is an FA after the season. No downside.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 01:11 PM
This is just a dumb move.

It doesn't improve this team at all. It seems more like a move made just for the sake of making a move.
No, it's a low or no cost flier. If Robbie can hit like he has recently, it's a great move. If he can't, we gave up nothing.

Everyone's upset about this.....why? Because we didn'tmake a bigger/better/more expensive move? That's just silly.

ukigdog
08-05-2004, 01:11 PM
any word on when he will join the team?? will he play tonight?

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-05-2004, 01:12 PM
any word on when he will join the team?? will he play tonight? The article on whitesox.com says he'll be joining up with Sandy tomorrow at the cell. I don't see why he can't make it for tonight though. :(:

samram
08-05-2004, 01:19 PM
Ah, didn't know that. Do you, or anybody else, know whether or not we even tried for him? Also, I'd rather see KW try and do SOMETHING (Alomar), rather than nothing at all.
I think Boston and Atlanta tried. He supposedly wanted to play on the west coast, but I guess the Yankees are a special case.

JGarlandrules20
08-05-2004, 01:20 PM
:o: It's like 2003 all over again!

deady43
08-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Now that Robbie is back WHO goes down

akingamongstmen
08-05-2004, 01:21 PM
Is it just me or does Kenny act more like a video game GM than a real baseball GM, making trades for guys with higher ratings rather than on sound baseball knowledge. The Carl Everett and Robbie Alomar move remind me of something I'd do playing Baseball Mogul.

I do think it sends a good message that he's not going to give up, but it really has me scratching my head, if you're going to keep making moves why not go all out? Add Beltran and Kendall and pick up a starting pitcher instead of this patchwork stuff.

What would really help this team is having Frank and Magglio back in the lineup. Any word on them yet?
I don't mean to attack you, but read what you just wrote... You first attack Kenny is behaving like a "video game GM", then you say that we should "add beltran and kendall and pick up a starting pitcher." A LOT of people at WSI need a reality check when it comes to trades. Beltran and Kendall are going to cost a TON, and they likely wouldn't help enough at this point to justify the cost. Furthermore, it's not like GMs are lining up to help the White Sox. Trades work two ways, and if the Astros GM or Pirates GM doesn't want to trade those guys, then they're not going anywhere.

I will say that I like this move. It seems a bit odd at first glance with Willie and Uribe getting so much playing time, but it can only help us. Robbie Alomar has his problems (namely his attitude), but he's a Professional Hitter. He gets on base, moves people over, and generally plays solid baseball...we don't have too many of these types of guys.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 01:23 PM
Now a youngster gets sent down, and another one sits. And next year - when Alomar is gone again, we're left wondering if some of these younger players can play. Now if Robbie Alomar were the "final piece of the puzzle", I can see the move, but I don't think any of our glaring weaknesses are addressed by this move.
First, I'm not sure we know if Willie is the one sitting, so really I'm thinking you're just overreacting there. As far as our glaring weaknesses, I thought we didn't have enough guys that got on-base?

Kilroy
08-05-2004, 01:24 PM
No, it's a low or no cost flier. If Robbie can hit like he has recently, it's a great move. If he can't, we gave up nothing.

Everyone's upset about this.....why? Because we didn'tmake a bigger/better/more expensive move? That's just silly.
Well, lemme see...

1. He's old.
2. He's slow.
3. Adding him doesn't really address the team's current needs.
4. We don't know what we'll end up paying for him. Could be nothing, could be something.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 01:24 PM
I will say that I like this move. It seems a bit odd at first glance with Willie and Uribe getting so much playing time, but it can only help us. Robbie Alomar has his problems (namely his attitude), but he's a Professional Hitter. He gets on base, moves people over, and generally plays solid baseball...we don't have too many of these types of guys.
What would realy be interesting is that if Robbie plays solid fundamental ball with good D and hits say.....280/350OBP or so, I woulnd't be surprised to see us possibly resign him for next year if they're not sold on Harris/Uribe. He should come cheaper (and have his epxectations more in line with reality than last offseason), and he'd fill the bill with good D, a bit of speed, and fundamentals, turning one of our current holes into at least a marginal asset.

(prepares to get slammed because "he sucked last year")

jabrch
08-05-2004, 01:25 PM
This is just a dumb move.

It doesn't improve this team at all. It seems more like a move made just for the sake of making a move.
It cost us nothing - we added a guy who is hitting well into the lineup. This is bad why?

duke of dorwood
08-05-2004, 01:26 PM
We're 2nd again on the MAR scale


They get Nomar

We get Alomar

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 01:26 PM
What would realy be interesting is that if Robbie plays solid fundamental ball with good D and hits say.....280/350OBP or so, I woulnd't be surprised to see us possibly resign him for next year if they're not sold on Harris/Uribe. He should come cheaper (and have his epxectations more in line with reality than last offseason), and he'd fill the bill with good D, a bit of speed, and fundamentals, turning one of our current holes into at least a marginal asset.

(prepares to get slammed because "he sucked last year")
You know, I'm with you all the way. $1M deal with a $1.5 M team option for 2006.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 01:27 PM
Well, lemme see...

1. He's old.
2. He's slow.
3. Adding him doesn't really address the team's current needs.
4. We don't know what we'll end up paying for him. Could be nothing, could be something.
1. If he's too old, who cares? doesn't cost us anything
2. If he's too slow, see #1
3. Current needs are OBP, sound fundamentals, and the position where we have one of our glaring holes is 2B. At worst, he mises out on one of those (OBP). Unlike Willie/Juan, he can get down a bunt, move runners over, etc and there's not a huge dropoff to him defensively either. What needs are you referring to?
4. It's likely top be nothing or close to it. I will say that if we end up trading something decent for him, it's a bad deal.

harwar
08-05-2004, 01:30 PM
Borchard just has to be the one to go.The guy doesn't even look like he can play baseball to me.
Put willie in CF and leave R Alomar at 2nd and see what happens.
I don't really see what all the fuss is about because we're just treading water anyway,unless KW can live a pipe dream and get someone like beltran or the rockies right-fielder(whose name escapes me).
It seems to me that KW is in a panic is kind of insane right now and really doesn't have a good firm grip on reality.

IronFisk
08-05-2004, 01:31 PM
Alright, let's see the big picture...

KW has made some great moves (Garcia, Everett) to give this team a chance to compete in October. Many on this board seem to agree, but are not looking at the problem...NO MAGS OR THOMAS! I think it has become clear that with both of these studs gone, so are we. KW REALLY wants to win now, and has VERY little room to move.

Alomar was cheap, and IS hitting well for the few games he has played. It's a lightning-in-a-bottle approach, but it's better than just hoping Mags and Frank will be back soon and standing pat.

I say another great move considering the realities.

:bandance: (just a small banana for this move)

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:34 PM
rockies right-fielder(whose name escapes me).Burnitz

Chez
08-05-2004, 01:35 PM
Lets get Scott Sullivan back while we are at it....this proves one thing...Kenny isn't done.....
Of course he's not done. He still has time to re-aquire Gary Majewski from Montreal and then ship him to Arizona as the PTBNL for Alomar.

ChiSoxBobette
08-05-2004, 01:35 PM
how many more prospects did we give up for his sorry azz? We need a pitcher right? *** is going on?:(: :angry: :redneck :redface: :mad: :o: :wink:
Somebody said it was acash deal.

depy48
08-05-2004, 01:36 PM
:KW "we're 6 games out of first place, there's 55 games left, got robbie alomar, and we're wearing sunglasses"

:reinsy
"hit it!"

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:37 PM
1. If he's too old, who cares? doesn't cost us anything
2. If he's too slow, see #1
3. Current needs are OBP, sound fundamentals, and the position where we have one of our glaring holes is 2B. At worst, he mises out on one of those (OBP). Unlike Willie/Juan, he can get down a bunt, move runners over, etc and there's not a huge dropoff to him defensively either. What needs are you referring to?
4. It's likely top be nothing or close to it. I will say that if we end up trading something decent for him, it's a bad deal.If he's too slow, he's replacing the only guy on the team with good speed. Granted that speed is useless because Willie doesn't know how to use it, but we are replacing the only guy on the team with "natural speed" with another slow player.

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 01:39 PM
If he's too slow, he's replacing the only guy on the team with good speed. Granted that speed is useless because Willie doesn't know how to use it, but we are replacing the only guy on the team with "natural speed" with another slow player.
Slow guy who can get on base or at least move guys over >> Fast guy who can't get on base and pops up bunts to kill leadoff doubles.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 01:40 PM
I hope Borchard is the one sent down. I wouldn't mind seeing Willie Harris in CF with Rowand in RF. As long as Willie is the #9 hitter in our lineup with Robbie Alomar and Aaron and the #1 and #2 hitters.

ode to veeck
08-05-2004, 01:40 PM
Agreed... didn't this fail last year too? Maybe we can pick Loiaza off of Waivers after last night performance?

Well, it would actually be the best 5th starter we've had in many years!! :redneck

Kilroy
08-05-2004, 01:43 PM
3. Current needs are OBP, sound fundamentals, and the position where we have one of our glaring holes is 2B. At worst, he mises out on one of those (OBP). Unlike Willie/Juan, he can get down a bunt, move runners over, etc and there's not a huge dropoff to him defensively either. What needs are you referring to?
Our current needs are pitching. Either a back of the rotation guy or someone who can keep me from having to see Mike Jackson's sorry ass come out of our pen. And yes, Alomar can get the bunt down, but in order for that to be a plus, other guys have to get on base, and this Sox team just hasn't been doing that. And Alomar is too slow to bunt for a base-hit.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:44 PM
Slow guy who can get on base or at least move guys over >> Fast guy who can't get on base and pops up bunts to kill leadoff doubles.That I can agree with. I was just pointing out that his speed is a concern because the guy currently at the position is the only one on the team with speed.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 01:44 PM
If he's too slow, he's replacing the only guy on the team with good speed. Granted that speed is useless because Willie doesn't know how to use it, but we are replacing the only guy on the team with "natural speed" with another slow player.
Appearantly the Score is reporting Robbie will DH while Carl plays right. So (just as most of us sane people here thought) we're replacing Timo/Gload with Robbie. So stop whinning about Kenny not letting the youth play...

freshdill
08-05-2004, 01:44 PM
Add Beltran and Kendall and pick up a starting pitcher instead of this patchwork stuff.
Sure, no problem. Let's get Delgado, Larry Walker and Urbina while we're at it. Randy Johnson, too.

Sheesh!

harwar
08-05-2004, 01:46 PM
[QUOTE=HebrewHammer]Add Beltran and Kendall and pick up a starting pitcher instead of this patchwork stuff. [QUOTE]

Sure, no problem. Let's get Delgado, Larry Walker and Urbina while we're at it. Randy Johnson, too.

Sheesh!
Hey if its just a matter of money i've 10 bucks to throw in..anyone else?
The heck with JR lets get it done ourselves.

Soxzilla
08-05-2004, 01:48 PM
Appearantly the Score is reporting Robbie will DH while Carl plays right. So (just as most of us sane people here thought) we're replacing Timo/Gload with Robbie. So stop whinning about Kenny not letting the youth play...I figured that would be the plan.

EDIT -

1 - Rowand - CF
2 - Alomar - DH
3 - Lee - LF
4 - Konerko - 1B
5 - Everett - RF
6 - Crede - 3B
7 - Uribe - SS
8 - Davis - C
9 - Harris - 2B

Rex Hudler
08-05-2004, 01:49 PM
Actually, I think all NL teams got first crack, and then he would clear the AL waivers. Could very well be wrong on that though.
You are very right on that one.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 01:50 PM
Appearantly the Score is reporting Robbie will DH while Carl plays right. So (just as most of us sane people here thought) we're replacing Timo/Gload with Robbie. So stop whinning about Kenny not letting the youth play...So we're going to use a 12 time gold glove winner as DH? Great.

Cowch44
08-05-2004, 01:50 PM
KW you Maroon...:D:

Aidan
08-05-2004, 01:50 PM
I figured that would be the plan.Anything that gets Borchard out of the lineup is okay with me. I'd rather have Willie's speed stay in the lineup since he can actually get on base sometimes. All I see Borchard do is pop up or strikeout.

OurBitchinMinny
08-05-2004, 01:51 PM
I dont mind the trade at all. harris is way too inconsistent. I dont see how it hurts at all. Its not like our minor leagues are churnning out good players anyways.

Gimm
08-05-2004, 01:51 PM
Someone's going to talk some sense into their legs to get them to stop being injured? It's not like the two of them are slumping - they're hurt! What would talking sense into them do?
Reading is a skill.

Talking sense comment referred to Walker or Delgado re-evaluating his stance and agreeing to come to Chicago.....not Thomas/Magglio.

:rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
08-05-2004, 01:53 PM
So on Friday, we can expect to see this lineup:

Rowand CF, Alomar DH, Lee LF, Everett RF, Konerko 1B, Valentin SS, Crede 3B, Davis C, Harris 2B...

Two "grinders," followed by five power hitters, followed by two more "grinders." Hmmmm.

sendimjoey
08-05-2004, 01:53 PM
I'm stunned that such a small move is generating this many posts. Assuming that the Sox send the D-backs a C prospect, there's nothing wrong with trying this. I agree the deja vu feeling is weird. We don't know what other moves have been looked at and what the cost of those moves would be. With Thomas and Ordonez hurt, I don't believe it makes sense to give up a ton in a trade.

Bottom line, it's a decent little move that could help this year and not hurt the Sox in 2005 and beyond. It's not worth it to make an impact trade at this point. How foolish do the Mets look, trading a few of their best prospects as they sit in fourth place only to be swept by the Braves? What did that get them?

Edit: corrected spelling.

Aidan
08-05-2004, 01:55 PM
I'm stunned that such a small move is generating this many posts. Assuming that the Sox send the D-backs a C prospect, there's nothing wrong with trying this. I agree the deja vu feeling is weird. We don't know what other moves have been looked at and what the cost of those moves would be. With Thomas and Ordonez hurt, I don't believe it makes sense to gie up a ton in a trade.

Bottom line, it's a decent little move that could help this year and not hurt the Sox in 2005 and beyond. It's not worth it to make an impact trade at this point. How foolish do the Mets look, trading a few of their best prospects as they sit in fourth place only to be swept by the Braves? What did that get them?Good point. People are missing out on this fact. It could just be a low-tier prospect, who may never see a call-up, that KW is sending to Arizona. The KW haters are just using this trade as an opportunity to bash him yet again.

Gimm
08-05-2004, 01:57 PM
I agree the deja vu feeling is weirdWhy is it weird? Sox are trying to get cheap upgrades, which Everett and Alomar are. Get an edge whereever you can find it, and save up the money to be spent on some expensive impact player in the Walker mold.

If KW wants to bring Lofton, Kip Wells and Olivo back, I won't mind it too much either. LMAO.

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 01:57 PM
I figured that would be the plan.

EDIT -

1 - Rowand - CF
2 - Alomar - DH
3 - Lee - LF
4 - Konerko - 1B
5 - Everett - RF
6 - Crede - 3B
7 - Uribe - SS
8 - Davis - C
9 - Harris - 2B
Hmmmm. I was thinking more along the lines of...

Rowand CF
Alomar DH
Lee LF
Everett DH
Konerko 1B
Valentin SS
Davis C
Crede 3B
Harris 2B

This is a lineup against RHP, of course. We don't look so good against lefties though.

Foulke29
08-05-2004, 02:00 PM
Is this move designed to help the Sox? Alomar hasn't been an above-average 2B for several years. He's a downgrade from Harris.

KW: "Hey, Everett and Alomar that didn't help last year...let's try it again."I really don't know how you can say that. He's hitting .300 this year - which is significantly higher than Harris' average. He may not have the range he used to, but he's still a vacuum. He does have 2713 career hits...

:bandance:

He'll have an outside chance at 3000 hits while wearing a White Sox uniform if they hold on to him, and you know nothing makes Uncle Jerry more pleased than putting fans in the seats. I would speculate, that the fans would come to the Cell to see a piece of history.

:dtroll: :dtroll:

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 02:00 PM
Hmmmm. I was thinking more along the lines of...

Rowand CF
Alomar DH
Lee LF
Everett DH
Konerko 1B
Valentin SS
Davis C
Crede 3B
Harris 2B

This is a lineup against RHP, of course. We don't look so good against lefties though.
Was that supposed to be in teal? Or has Aaron Rowand's range improved to the point where he can play CF AND RF? Maybe Willie's range on popups extends to the RF warning track?

Procol Harum
08-05-2004, 02:01 PM
I figured that would be the plan.

EDIT -

1 - Rowand - CF
2 - Alomar - DH
3 - Lee - LF
4 - Konerko - 1B
5 - Everett - RF
6 - Crede - 3B
7 - Uribe - SS
8 - Davis - C
9 - Harris - 2B
I like this line-up better:

1--Beltran-CF
2--Kendall-C
3--Lee--LF
4--L. Walker--RF
5--Delgado--1B
6--Konerko--DH
7--Uribe--SS
8--Crede--3B
9--Harris--2B

Of course, I also think pancakes should grow on bushes next to maple syrup streams.... :bandance: :bandance:

sendimjoey
08-05-2004, 02:02 PM
Why is it weird? Sox are trying to get cheap upgrades, which Everett and Alomar are. Get an edge whereever you can find it, and save up the money to be spent on some expensive impact player in the Walker mold.

If KW wants to bring Lofton, Kip Wells and Olivo back, I won't mind it too much either. LMAO.
Oh, I just meant it struck me as weird/funny when I saw the headline on ESPN.com, same with the Everett trade. The trades make sense to me.

And I guess I do understand why there are so many posts, now that I think about it a little more. I think all the posts are just an indication of how frustrated we all are as fans. So it's really just a sign of how much people care about this team (in the overall, franchise sense, not in the sense of this particular collection of 25 players). That's good.:smile:

Terminated
08-05-2004, 02:02 PM
With the acquisition of Everett and Alomar, this seems like some sort of family reunion.

How much longer till Sammy comes back? :gulp:

Flight #24
08-05-2004, 02:03 PM
I like this line-up better:

1--Beltran-CF
2--Kendall-C
3--Lee--LF
4--L. Walker--RF
5--Delgado--1B
6--Konerko--DH
7--Uribe--SS
8--Crede--3B
9--Harris--2B

Of course, I also think pancakes should grow on bushes next to maple syrup streams.... :bandance: :bandance:
And maybe we could finally discover that animal from which stems bacon, pork chops, sausage, and spam........Ahhhhh, a wonderful, magical animal.....(drool)

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 02:04 PM
Isn't that what winter ball and Spring Training are for?
No. If you go into spring training without about 22 guys on your roster set, then you are in deep trouble.

duke of dorwood
08-05-2004, 02:05 PM
Appearantly the Score is reporting Robbie will DH while Carl plays right. So (just as most of us sane people here thought) we're replacing Timo/Gload with Robbie. So stop whinning about Kenny not letting the youth play...
If 670 is saying that, he's really probably our new 5th starter

Cowch44
08-05-2004, 02:06 PM
Maybe a Clayton/Miles thing could happen to Alomar/Harris. Maybe he can teach him how to steal:D:.

gosox41
08-05-2004, 02:06 PM
And maybe we could finally discover that animal from which stems bacon, pork chops, sausage, and spam........Ahhhhh, a wonderful, magical animal.....(drool)
I can't read through all these posts so I have 2 quick things:

1. What is Alomar's contract status?

2. I would move Rowand to right, Harris to CF and Alomar to 2B.


Bob

Foulke29
08-05-2004, 02:07 PM
I like this line-up better:

1--Beltran-CF
2--Kendall-C
3--Lee--LF
4--L. Walker--RF
5--Delgado--1B
6--Konerko--DH
7--Uribe--SS
8--Crede--3B
9--Harris--2B

Of course, I also think pancakes should grow on bushes next to maple syrup streams.... :bandance: :bandance:
This is the lineup that I would go with:

1. Rickey Henderson - LF
2. Ty Cobb - CF
3. Babe Ruth - RF
4. Lou Gerhig - 1B
5. Alex Rodriguez - SS
6. Mike Schmidt - 3B
7. Carlton Fisk - C
8. Dick Allen - DH
9. Roberto Alomar - 2B

I know we'd win with that lineup!

If we're going to play like a bunch of corpses...

mcfish
08-05-2004, 02:08 PM
Reading is a skill.

Talking sense comment referred to Walker or Delgado re-evaluating his stance and agreeing to come to Chicago.....not Thomas/Magglio.

:rolleyes:Writing is a skill as well. Not only was the original post misleading as you never mentioned anything about Walker or Delgado's stance before, but the beginning of this sentence makes no sense as well.

ode to veeck
08-05-2004, 02:08 PM
And Alomar is too slow to bunt for a base-hit.
Ummm ... he seemd to do this pretty consistently as recent as last year as a Sox. While we're at it, maybe Robbie can lead the team in bunting drills, the rest could learn a thing or two on it from him.

thepaulbowski
08-05-2004, 02:10 PM
I can't read through all these posts so I have 2 quick things:

1. What is Alomar's contract status?

2. I would move Rowand to right, Harris to CF and Alomar to 2B.


Bob
That would makes sense to me too, and send Borchard to Charlotte to get his AB's.

jabrch
08-05-2004, 02:10 PM
I'm stunned that such a small move is generating this many posts. Assuming that the Sox send the D-backs a C prospect, there's nothing wrong with trying this. I agree the deja vu feeling is weird. We don't know what other moves have been looked at and what the cost of those moves would be. With Thomas and Ordonez hurt, I don't believe it makes sense to give up a ton in a trade.

Bottom line, it's a decent little move that could help this year and not hurt the Sox in 2005 and beyond. It's not worth it to make an impact trade at this point. How foolish do the Mets look, trading a few of their best prospects as they sit in fourth place only to be swept by the Braves? What did that get them?

Edit: corrected spelling.
There are people who will bash just about every move made short of firing KW. Welcome to WSI.

TimoPerez
08-05-2004, 02:10 PM
Ummm ... he seemd to do this pretty consistently as recent as last year as a Sox. While we're at it, maybe Robbie can lead the team in bunting drills, the rest could learn a thing or two on it from him.
If I remember correctly, which I might not, Alomar, Timo, and a few other guys went out before games and worked on bunting when they were on the Mets.

StillMissOzzie
08-05-2004, 02:11 PM
Wow - I really don't get which direction we're heading.
I'm with you, Kingsey. I don't see how Robbie fills any vital need for this team.
He's the last guy I expected to see back in a White Sox uni after all the bad blood trash talk between Robbie & his agent vs. KW. Robbie wanted a 2 year deal LAST year and couldn't get it, so now he's back? ***?

Any word on who's getting sent down/released to make room for Robbie? Even though the Sox still need bullpen help, I wouldn't mind hearing that Mike Jackson has been released.

And KingXerxes, what does Ed Farmer think about this swap?

SMO
:?:

Shoeless Joe
08-05-2004, 02:12 PM
Well after reading everyone's opinion, and all of them where very interesting. I have the opinion that this trade is not entirely bad, we add a bat after a lowly two hit performance. But this sort of creates a conundrum. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people are frustrated just thinking about this trade.

With Harris playing reasonably well why get Alomar? I'm not sure. Maybe with Alomar playing well this season Kenny thinks that he'll be an upgrade over Harris.

Maybe he will maybe he won't, but at this point this move smells of desperation. And that's exactly where the Sox are right now, they're desperate. As fans we're desperate for something...anything!

In the end it doesn't matter, if we're going to win anything, Frank and Maggs need to come back to the team. There's a reason we were in first place with them. Wow this is frustrating.

Rudy Law
08-05-2004, 02:17 PM
I heard he is going to DH. So Crazy Carl might be in RF now and Joe Borchard and Timo will only come off the bench now.

Foulke29
08-05-2004, 02:18 PM
I'm with you, Kingsey. I don't see how Robbie fills any vital need for this team.
He's the last guy I expected to see back in a White Sox uni after all the bad blood trash talk between Robbie & his agent vs. KW. Robbie wanted a 2 year deal LAST year and couldn't get it, so now he's back? ***?

Any word on who's getting sent down/released to make room for Robbie? Even though the Sox still need bullpen help, I wouldn't mind hearing that Mike Jackson has been released.

And KingXerxes, what does Ed Farmer think about this swap?

SMO
:?:
Okay - first of all, he has above a .380 OB% - which in case you've not been watching the Sox lately - we need a guy that gets on base.

Furthermore, I'm sure any bad blood generated could be smoothed over by having aforementioned's brother on the team.

I dunno. What do you think? :dunno:

Foulke29
08-05-2004, 02:21 PM
Oh, and is there anyone here that doesn't think that Alomar being signed to a 2 year contract and flirting with 3000 hits doesn't factor into the butts in the seats philosophy?

JR has a big one for Alomar anyway. Three years ago, on the way to a game, I heard JR being interviewed by either Wills or Farmer or someone... JR said there's no competition that Robbie is the best second basemen this game has ever seen.

milrtyme28
08-05-2004, 02:21 PM
I have difficulty understanding why adding a guy who can get on base, bunt, and is solid defensively wouldnt be an upgrade? Especially if the cost is minimal?!

Im ok with this deal - wish Robbie would get here for tonights game tho - :?:

OurBitchinMinny
08-05-2004, 02:31 PM
I can't read through all these posts so I have 2 quick things:

1. What is Alomar's contract status?

2. I would move Rowand to right, Harris to CF and Alomar to 2B.


Bob
I agree with #2. Harris has been better of late. Everett seems to be pretty frail this year so he should DH. Rowand is a better CF than harris but harris doesnt have the arm to play right. Also frees up timo as a valuable pinch hitter. You can change it sometimes, give harris the night off or DH alomar and start timo or the "great" joe borchard (i just hope he stays with the sox so he wears out hat into the hall). Either way I like the pickup. At least management isnt laying down and dying like some players seem to be doing

Aidan
08-05-2004, 02:48 PM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

:ralomar:

"Damn, I'm a popular guy!"

Foulke You
08-05-2004, 02:50 PM
I have difficulty understanding why adding a guy who can get on base, bunt, and is solid defensively wouldnt be an upgrade? Especially if the cost is minimal?!

Im ok with this deal - wish Robbie would get here for tonights game tho - :?:I'm with you on this one. I've been posting on this board since the Rivals days back in the late '90s and sometimes I wonder where all this reserved negativity comes from on deals like this? Message to WSI posters:

This is a CAN'T HURT, MIGHT HELP type of move. Everyone settle down a bit. The cost of getting him was basically nothing (I sincerely doubt the PTBNL is going to be a top propsect, it usually never is) and to those who don't understand how it could help us, let me refer you to the 7 game losing streak where the #1 and #2 hitters could do nothing to get on base for our power guys. All anyone did on these boards was bellyache about not having a top of the order guy, a guy who knows how to play the game right, and advance runners, lay down a bunt, be a general pest to opposing teams. Then everyone bellyached about KW not getting this top of the order guy at the July 31st deadline. Now, KW goes out and gets a top of the order guy who can do all the things I just mentioned, and people still complain and moan.

I for one, will not shed a tear about Willie Harris getting less playing time. I will not shed a tear for Joe "I can't hit a MLB fastball" Borchard going back to Charlotte.

As long as there is a glimmer of hope in making the playoffs THIS year, you gotta go for it. I applaud KW for his efforts to improve our club while working within Reinsdorfian economic handcuffs. Robbie Alomar, even an old Robbie Alomar, is still a SMART player (something our team lacks), is a solid 2B/DP combo, can bunt, runs the bases well, and has a high .OBP, something this team desperately needs.

habibharu
08-05-2004, 02:58 PM
I heard he is going to DH. So Crazy Carl might be in RF now and Joe Borchard and Timo will only come off the bench now. what the hell are they doing with borchard? send this guy down so he can get consistent at bats or let him play every single day!!

batmanZoSo
08-05-2004, 03:12 PM
Why are the White Sox reacquiring players who couldn't get it done when facing less of a deficit in '03 for '04?
LOL.

I love this game!

Seriously, though, we're finished.

HebrewHammer
08-05-2004, 03:15 PM
I don't mean to attack you, but read what you just wrote... You first attack Kenny is behaving like a "video game GM", then you say that we should "add beltran and kendall and pick up a starting pitcher." A LOT of people at WSI need a reality check when it comes to trades. Beltran and Kendall are going to cost a TON, and they likely wouldn't help enough at this point to justify the cost. Furthermore, it's not like GMs are lining up to help the White Sox. Trades work two ways, and if the Astros GM or Pirates GM doesn't want to trade those guys, then they're not going anywhere.

I will say that I like this move. It seems a bit odd at first glance with Willie and Uribe getting so much playing time, but it can only help us. Robbie Alomar has his problems (namely his attitude), but he's a Professional Hitter. He gets on base, moves people over, and generally plays solid baseball...we don't have too many of these types of guys.If he's playing for this season then he should make a move that would actually improve the team instead of trying to patchwork a team together. I don't really think I was "attacking" KW, I just don't understand why he's added Everett and Alomar again. I don't really see a downside, but I don't see an UPSIDE either.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 03:20 PM
I'm with you on this one. I've been posting on this board since the Rivals days back in the late '90s and sometimes I wonder where all this reserved negativity comes from on deals like this? Message to WSI posters:

This is a CAN'T HURT, MIGHT HELP type of move. Everyone settle down a bit. The cost of getting him was basically nothing (I sincerely doubt the PTBNL is going to be a top propsect, it usually never is) and to those who don't understand how it could help us, let me refer you to the 7 game losing streak where the #1 and #2 hitters could do nothing to get on base for our power guys. All anyone did on these boards was bellyache about not having a top of the order guy, a guy who knows how to play the game right, and advance runners, lay down a bunt, be a general pest to opposing teams. Then everyone bellyached about KW not getting this top of the order guy at the July 31st deadline. Now, KW goes out and gets a top of the order guy who can do all the things I just mentioned, and people still complain and moan.

I for one, will not shed a tear about Willie Harris getting less playing time. I will not shed a tear for Joe "I can't hit a MLB fastball" Borchard going back to Charlotte.

As long as there is a glimmer of hope in making the playoffs THIS year, you gotta go for it. I applaud KW for his efforts to improve our club while working within Reinsdorfian economic handcuffs. Robbie Alomar, even an old Robbie Alomar, is still a SMART player (something our team lacks), is a solid 2B/DP combo, can bunt, runs the bases well, and has a high .OBP, something this team desperately needs.The Reinsdorfian handcuffs are not as restricting as one might think. We have by far the highest payroll in the AL Central. I know that we have 2 BIG contracts injured right now, but we also don't have very good low priced talent/reserves.
Sox - $ 65,212,500
Twins - $ 53,585,000
Injuns - $ 34,319,300
Tigers - $ 46,832,000
Royals - $ 47,609,000

The Alomar deal is a good one and will help the team. I guess I'm angry because it just reminds me of how many holes this team has, because I look and I still see a number of gaping ones.

StrTrkker
08-05-2004, 03:30 PM
Of course, I also think pancakes should grow on bushes next to maple syrup streams.... :bandance: :bandance:Isnt that a line from Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds?

Foulke29
08-05-2004, 03:36 PM
Isnt that a line from Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds?
I thought it was from something on The Wall.

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 03:43 PM
I'm with you on this one. I've been posting on this board since the Rivals days back in the late '90s and sometimes I wonder where all this reserved negativity comes from on deals like this? Message to WSI posters:

This is a CAN'T HURT, MIGHT HELP type of move. Everyone settle down a bit. The cost of getting him was basically nothing (I sincerely doubt the PTBNL is going to be a top propsect, it usually never is) and to those who don't understand how it could help us, let me refer you to the 7 game losing streak where the #1 and #2 hitters could do nothing to get on base for our power guys. All anyone did on these boards was bellyache about not having a top of the order guy, a guy who knows how to play the game right, and advance runners, lay down a bunt, be a general pest to opposing teams. Then everyone bellyached about KW not getting this top of the order guy at the July 31st deadline. Now, KW goes out and gets a top of the order guy who can do all the things I just mentioned, and people still complain and moan.

I for one, will not shed a tear about Willie Harris getting less playing time. I will not shed a tear for Joe "I can't hit a MLB fastball" Borchard going back to Charlotte.

As long as there is a glimmer of hope in making the playoffs THIS year, you gotta go for it. I applaud KW for his efforts to improve our club while working within Reinsdorfian economic handcuffs. Robbie Alomar, even an old Robbie Alomar, is still a SMART player (something our team lacks), is a solid 2B/DP combo, can bunt, runs the bases well, and has a high .OBP, something this team desperately needs.
Other then his past 50 at bats, he hasn't been able to get on base since he left Clevland. He hasn't a top of the order hitter other then his past 50 at bats, the past three seasons. I would rather give Borchard the at bats, because at least he has an upside while Robbie doesn't. This trade just keeps the team running in place.

Hangar18
08-05-2004, 03:47 PM
If Minnesota just plays .500 baseball the rest of the way, the Sox need to go 35-23 the rest of the way to catch them. Without Frank and Mags, that's clos to insurmountable.
And THATS the Stat that will be our Undoing this year. I posed that same Stat last year when we stumbled thru the first 2 months, with the daunting task of having to play .800 ball the rest of the way. We almost did it too,
but finally ran out of gas in September. The Twinks can cruise now .....
:angry:

Cowch44
08-05-2004, 03:49 PM
Injuns - $ 34,319,300
I can't believe their payroll is that low.

batmanZoSo
08-05-2004, 03:49 PM
Other then his past 50 at bats, he hasn't been able to get on base since he left Clevland. He hasn't a top of the order hitter other then his past 50 at bats, the past three seasons. I would rather give Borchard the at bats, because at least he has an upside while Robbie doesn't. This trade just keeps the team running in place.
Just a thought...where the hell is Uribe going to play? If both are gonna suck, shouldn't we give the nod to the younger guy?

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 03:51 PM
Just a thought...where the hell is Uribe going to play? If both are gonna suck, shouldn't we give the nod to the younger guy?
Yes, I think you should. Might as well see if the young guy can turn it around.

mcfish
08-05-2004, 03:59 PM
I can't believe their payroll is that low."I didn't think we had any high priced talent."
"I forgot about Wickman because he's only high priced."

Bard, Josh $ 316,700 C
Belliard, Ron $ 1,100,000 2B
Betancourt, Rafael $ 305,200 P
Blake, Casey $ 352,400 3B
Broussard, Ben $ 324,100 1B
Cressend, Jack $ 322,400 P
Crisp, Coco $ 319,400 OF
D'Amico, Jeff $ 750,000 P
Davis, Jason $ 326,800 P
Durbin, Chad $ 315,000 P
Escobar, Alex $ 302,200 OF
Gerut, Jody $ 325,600 OF
Hafner, Travis $ 316,300 1B
Jimenez, Jose $ 1,025,000 P
Laker, Tim $ 450,000 C
Lawton, Matt $ 7,250,000 OF
Lee, Cliff $ 303,200 P
Ludwick, Ryan $ 304,700 OF
Martinez, Victor $ 304,500 C
McDonald, John $ 324,400 SS
Merloni, Lou $ 560,000 2B
Riske, David $ 1,025,000 P
Sabathia, CC $ 2,700,000 P
Stanford, Jason $ 302,900 P
Stewart, Scott $ 850,000 P
Tallet, Brian $ 301,000 P
Traber, Billy $ 317,500 P
Vizquel, Omar $ 6,000,000 SS
Westbrook, Jake $ 925,000 P
Wickman, Bob $ 6,000,000 P

Soxzilla
08-05-2004, 04:30 PM
"I didn't think we had any high priced talent."
"I forgot about Wickman because he's only high priced."

Bard, Josh $ 316,700 C
Belliard, Ron $ 1,100,000 2B
Betancourt, Rafael $ 305,200 P
Blake, Casey $ 352,400 3B
Broussard, Ben $ 324,100 1B
Cressend, Jack $ 322,400 P
Crisp, Coco $ 319,400 OF
D'Amico, Jeff $ 750,000 P
Davis, Jason $ 326,800 P
Durbin, Chad $ 315,000 P
Escobar, Alex $ 302,200 OF
Gerut, Jody $ 325,600 OF
Hafner, Travis $ 316,300 1B
Jimenez, Jose $ 1,025,000 P
Laker, Tim $ 450,000 C
Lawton, Matt $ 7,250,000 OF
Lee, Cliff $ 303,200 P
Ludwick, Ryan $ 304,700 OF
Martinez, Victor $ 304,500 C
McDonald, John $ 324,400 SS
Merloni, Lou $ 560,000 2B
Riske, David $ 1,025,000 P
Sabathia, CC $ 2,700,000 P
Stanford, Jason $ 302,900 P
Stewart, Scott $ 850,000 P
Tallet, Brian $ 301,000 P
Traber, Billy $ 317,500 P
Vizquel, Omar $ 6,000,000 SS
Westbrook, Jake $ 925,000 P
Wickman, Bob $ 6,000,000 P
That's sad they are paying lawton 7 million.

Ewww.

soxwon
08-05-2004, 04:32 PM
I LOVE IT!!!

IT CANT HURT AT ALL!!!

we are on our way, the twinks lost today!!!

maurice
08-05-2004, 04:40 PM
It's certainly not a horrible deal. It could turn out to be a decent, minor deal depending on the identity of the PTBNL and how they use Alomar. I'm tentatively in favor of:

1. Rowand - RF
2. Alomar - 2B
3. Lee - LF
4. Konerko - 1B
5. Everett - DH
6. Crede - 3B
7. Uribe - SS
8. Davis / Burke / Alomar - C
9. Harris - CF

Dan H
08-05-2004, 04:45 PM
I have no faith in Robbie Alomar. None whatsoever.

Wealz
08-05-2004, 04:47 PM
Other then his past 50 at bats, he hasn't been able to get on base since he left Clevland. He hasn't a top of the order hitter other then his past 50 at bats, the past three seasons. I would rather give Borchard the at bats, because at least he has an upside while Robbie doesn't. This trade just keeps the team running in place.
How about getting Crede out of the lineup against righties (until further notice) with this lineup:

Harris 3B
Alomar 2B
Lee LF
Everett DH
Konerko 1b
Valentin SS
Rowand CF
Borchard RF
Davis C

Certainly the IF defense would suffer with Harris at third and Alomar at second, but Harris and Alomar in the same lineup would address the team's biggest problem - getting guys on base.

bennyw41
08-05-2004, 05:00 PM
Certainly the IF defense would suffer with Harris at third and Alomar at second, but Harris and Alomar in the same lineup would address the team's biggest problem - getting guys on base.

When did Willie start getting on base?

JasonC23
08-05-2004, 05:04 PM
So, last year, KW acquires Alomar. He was bad in 2002 and bad before being acquired in 2003, but we're all told that being back in the AL will rejuvinate Robbie.

Robbie proceeds to put up a lower OBP with the Sox than he had with the Mets, despite moving from a notorious pitcher's park to a great hitter's park. The move clearly rejuvinated nothing; it didn't work.

Yet in the off-season, KW tries to sign Alomar to a 2-year deal. But wait, there's more...the negotiating gets bungled, there's bad blood between Robbie's agent and KW, and Alomar ends up with Arizona. With no Alomar, KW acquires Juan Uribe, putting 2 youngsters (Harris and Uribe) in a battle for 2B. KW figures at least one of them would outperform Robbie's poor OBP.

So, in Arizona, Robbie begins the season playing like crap again, then gets hurt. While he's out, Arizona decides to go young (and bad), so when Alomar returns, he has to sit. He whines about this, because even though he hasn't been good since 2001--3 years ago--he clearly deserves to play because...well, for some reason.

Meanwhile, after getting off to an incredible start, Uribe returns to Earth. Harris has a nice run, too, but also returns to a lesser level. Uribe is still an excellent fielder, but his bat is gone, while Harris is a decent fielder with a decent OBP.

But wait! In Arizona, thanks to an injury, Robbie gets to play again! And he goes on a 50 at-bat tear the likes of which no one has seen from him since 2001. Small sample size? Apparently not--he's "rejuvinated" yet again.

So KW decides that his in-house 2B options aren't working out--of course, he was the GM that acquired both players--and he trades for Robbie again. The same Alomar that didn't do anything noteworthy last year. But don't worry, once again, Alomar has been rejuvinated. (Where have we heard that before?)

So, to recap...

1. KW trades for Alomar in 2003, despite a year-and-a-half run of awfulness. Doesn't work.

2. KW can't resign Alomar, but has 2 KW-acquired in-house replacements ready.

3. KW decides the KW-acquired replacements aren't good enough.

4. KW reacquires Alomar, who apparently made his 2+ years of crappiness disappear by having 50 good at-bats.


I'm looking for a sign that KW has any idea what he's doing...and I'm not seeing it.

batmanZoSo
08-05-2004, 05:09 PM
So, last year, KW acquires Alomar. He was bad in 2002 and bad before being acquired in 2003, but we're all told that being back in the AL will rejuvinate Robbie.

Robbie proceeds to put up a lower OBP with the Sox than he had with the Mets, despite moving from a notorious pitcher's park to a great hitter's park. The move clearly rejuvinated nothing; it didn't work.

Yet in the off-season, KW tries to sign Alomar to a 2-year deal. But wait, there's more...the negotiating gets bungled, there's bad blood between Robbie's agent and KW, and Alomar ends up with Arizona. With no Alomar, KW acquires Juan Uribe, putting 2 youngsters (Harris and Uribe) in a battle for 2B. KW figures at least one of them would outperform Robbie's poor OBP.

So, in Arizona, Robbie begins the season playing like crap again, then gets hurt. While he's out, Arizona decides to go young (and bad), so when Alomar returns, he has to sit. He whines about this, because even though he hasn't been good since 2001--3 years ago--he clearly deserves to play because...well, for some reason.

Meanwhile, after getting off to an incredible start, Uribe returns to Earth. Harris has a nice run, too, but also returns to a lesser level. Uribe is still an excellent fielder, but his bat is gone, while Harris is a decent fielder with a decent OBP.

But wait! In Arizona, thanks to an injury, Robbie gets to play again! And he goes on a 50 at-bat tear the likes of which no one has seen from him since 2001. Small sample size? Apparently not--he's "rejuvinated" yet again.

So KW decides that his in-house 2B options aren't working out--of course, he was the GM that acquired both players--and he trades for Robbie again. The same Alomar that didn't do anything noteworthy last year. But don't worry, once again, Alomar has been rejuvinated. (Where have we heard that before?)

So, to recap...

1. KW trades for Alomar in 2003, despite a year-and-a-half run of awfulness. Doesn't work.

2. KW can't resign Alomar, but has 2 KW-acquired in-house replacements ready.

3. KW decides the KW-acquired replacements aren't good enough.

4. KW reacquires Alomar, who apparently made his 2+ years of crappiness disappear by having 50 good at-bats.


I'm looking for a sign that KW has any idea what he's doing...and I'm not seeing it.
Alomar could very well be rejuvinated. But that's not really the big issue. The bottom line is he could be 93 Alomar and it's still not enough. So who cares?

Wealz
08-05-2004, 05:12 PM
When did Willie start getting on base?
.384 OBP v. righties.

Foulke You
08-05-2004, 05:46 PM
I would rather give Borchard the at bats, because at least he has an upside while Robbie doesn't. This trade just keeps the team running in place.
Borchard has BUST written all over him. I haven't even seen a glimmer of hope that this guy is going to be anything but a poor man's Jeff Liefer. (or a rich man's when you consider his giant signing bonus) Let Borchard continue to learn how to hit in Charlotte (where he only hit .265 anyway) When Joe shows he can hit AAA pitching, maybe he can come back to the big club. Again, I won't shed any tears that he is probably going to get sent down. He is either a bust or is not ready for the bigs.

Also, if Robbie hits .280 for us, has a high OBP, plays solid defense, and helps us get back in the division race, how is he keeping us running in place? If we fall flat on our face in August and fall hopelessly out of contention, what is to stop Ozzie from benching Robbie in favor of the younger guys who are going to be here next year? Nothing.

Again, I'm seeing nothing that is telling me it wasn't worth taking on Robbie Alomar for a measly two months.

Gimm
08-05-2004, 06:02 PM
What you people fail to realize is that a rejuvenated Alomar is NOT Alomar of Cleveland days. Those days are gone and the sooner Robbie realizes, the better.

A rejuvenated Alomar is Alomar who finally realizes he can't hit for power anymore and instead concentrates on using his superior hand-eye coordination and experience to hit a lot of singles, soft doubles, draw walks, bunt his way on, etc - in other words, an OBP-oriented Alomar.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the following against RHP and LHP:

9. Harris
1. Lofton
2. Robbie.

9. Burke
1. Rowand
2. Lofton

Rudy Law
08-05-2004, 06:11 PM
a slightly different thought by the way.......
since we are after the waiver-free trade period, to get him, everyother team in baseball had to pass him up for the trade to be approved right? Oh, KW must know something that everyone else does not.
Every team with a worse record then the Sox had a chance at him. Why would a team out of any kind of race pick-up Robbie Alomar? So your best attempt to rip Kenny Williams and this trade have failed. Try again; this time though have your facts right! Thanks

he_gone_89
08-05-2004, 06:40 PM
So how much longer do we have to wait until Tony G. and Brian Daubach return?
to be honest,that could happen since KC is done and Boston doesnt use Daubach[who,in my opinon,is the most underrated player in baseball]

owensmouth
08-05-2004, 06:52 PM
Robbie comes in and I suspect, Borchard gets sent back down. I doubt either Harris, Valentine or Uribe would be dumped, but one of them should. Robbie may be an upgrade offensively over either 2d baseman, but he is a retrograde defensively.

batmanZoSo
08-05-2004, 06:56 PM
Robbie comes in and I suspect, Borchard gets sent back down. I doubt either Harris, Valentine or Uribe would be dumped, but one of them should. Robbie may be an upgrade offensively over either 2d baseman, but he is a retrograde defensively.

Alomar's a better defender than Harris even at this age. He's smarter out there most importantly.

Cubbiesuck13
08-05-2004, 07:01 PM
Has anyone thought about how Alomar helped Harris last year? Perhaps Harris can continue to improve under a HOF caliber 2B.

jordan23ventura
08-05-2004, 11:01 PM
Myself, I am sick and tired of watching a guy with as much speed as Harris who can't bunt.
And won't steal a base.

Viva Magglio
08-05-2004, 11:21 PM
After this news, all I can say is...

The White Sox are coming tra-la, tra-la...

PaleHoseGeorge
08-06-2004, 09:07 AM
Well, there you go. The Oracle of Reinsdorphi is *NEVER* wrong.

Willie Harris strikes out...
:hawk
<long silence>

Willie Harris fails to make contact with runners in scoring position...
:hawk
"That was not a good at-bat."

And now just one week later, we know EXACTLY why Hawk was down on Willie. The winds of change were already blowing from inside the chairman's office.

:reinsy
"Kenny, go find me another secondbasemen. I'm sick of looking at that dumbass we kept over Jimenez last summer. Oh, and while you're at it, go find Hawk. I need to speak with him."

:KW
"Right away, boss!"

:hawk
"You're dad gum right, Jerry!"

cwsox
08-06-2004, 09:48 AM
Every team with a worse record then the Sox had a chance at him. Why would a team out of any kind of race pick-up Robbie Alomar? So your best attempt to rip Kenny Williams and this trade have failed. Try again; this time though have your facts right! Thanks

this is not a post about getting back another aging fading player

this is to say: Rudy Law as in my old friend Rudy Law?

SoxxoS
08-06-2004, 09:50 AM
.384 OBP v. righties.
Too bad they haven't outlawed lefties.

Foulke29
08-06-2004, 10:06 AM
I have no faith in Robbie Alomar. None whatsoever.
I have no faith in yer mom?

:dtroll:

Foulke29
08-06-2004, 10:13 AM
Too bad they haven't outlawed lefties.
Isn't Buddy S. working on that. I could have sworn he is - that and getting home field advantage of the world series changed to the best of seven in a rock, paper, scissors contest between last year's two MVPs.

JKryl
08-06-2004, 01:44 PM
Too bad they haven't outlawed lefties.
Hey, SoxxoS, nice logo.

SoxxoS
08-06-2004, 02:47 PM
Hey, SoxxoS, nice logo.It looks like you are a new poster...welcome...and WinningUgly! did it for me. He is the graphic "stud.":D: