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View Full Version : Trade Joe Borchard....


joeynach
08-05-2004, 09:54 AM
I dont care how the management has said he will be great and ya da ya da. There is no room for another low batting avg only hit homers guy on this team, not that he does that anyway. Its his defense in the outfield that bothers me. I dont want a big stocky guy who cant make plays and has no arms but is just here becasue he is supposed to hit homers. I want speed, an arm, good range and D in right field. I dont want a Joe Borchard. Give me a Frank Catalanatto or Jose Cruz Jr or something. Give me a guy who will hit for avg drive in some runs and be a threat in right field. Its obvious Joe Borchard is a dinosaur from the power hitting prospects era years ago. He has no place on our team, trade him to the mets. He is not an all around good enough player, he does not look like an athlete. He looks like a big stock white guy who cant catch up to a fastball over 90 nor run down a flyball in the outfield and make a good throw. What a joke he is.

soxtalker
08-05-2004, 10:03 AM
I dont care how the management has said he will be great and ya da ya da. There is no room for another low batting avg only hit homers guy on this team, not that he does that anyway. Its his defense in the outfield that bothers me. I dont want a big stocky guy who cant make plays and has no arms but is just here becasue he is supposed to hit homers. I want speed, an arm, good range and D in right field. I dont want a Joe Borchard. Give me a Frank Catalanatto or Jose Cruz Jr or something. Give me a guy who will hit for avg drive in some runs and be a threat in right field. Its obvious Joe Borchard is a dinosaur from the power hitting prospects era years ago. He has no place on our team, trade him to the mets. He is not an all around good enough player, he does not look like an athlete. He looks like a big stock white guy who cant catch up to a fastball over 90 nor run down a flyball in the outfield and make a good throw. What a joke he is. Well, I understand your frustration, but I'll vote for the opposite strategy. With the Sox season quickly going down the tubes, I'd play him every day. Give him a chance to work through his difficulties at the major league level. If you trade him now, you won't get very much. Also, I don't agree about him not fitting on our team. The reason that KW has stuck with him so long is not just his power, but, rather, because he is supposedly a terrific all-around player. As painful as it will be, if the Sox fall too far back in the next week or so, this is the time to let such players play. I hope that he works out; at this point, I wish that we'd sent him to Seattle instead of Jeremy Reed.

joeynach
08-05-2004, 10:20 AM
Well, I understand your frustration, but I'll vote for the opposite strategy. With the Sox season quickly going down the tubes, I'd play him every day. Give him a chance to work through his difficulties at the major league level. If you trade him now, you won't get very much. Also, I don't agree about him not fitting on our team. The reason that KW has stuck with him so long is not just his power, but, rather, because he is supposedly a terrific all-around player. As painful as it will be, if the Sox fall too far back in the next week or so, this is the time to let such players play. I hope that he works out; at this point, I wish that we'd sent him to Seattle instead of Jeremy Reed.
I wish it was him instad of reed too. Ill let him play the rest of season in hopes he increases his value. But it would be nice if Oz said to KW this is not the guy on want on my team.

munchman33
08-05-2004, 10:52 AM
Face it people, Joe Borchard will be a staple in right field, whether you want him to our not. He has power, he's cheap, and Maggs will not be back.

Instead of complaining about him, start spending your time rooting for him and hoping he figures out major league pitching.

And I don't agree with your defensive assessment of him. He's definately got a plus arm in the outfield, and is not slow at all. I wouldn't throw him in center, but he'll do in right.

samram
08-05-2004, 10:59 AM
There is no room for another low batting avg only hit homers guy on this team, not that he does that anyway.
Well, which team does have room for that? He doesn't have much trade value now- if he was three years younger, I think he would.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 11:06 AM
Face it people, Joe Borchard will be a staple in right field, whether you want him to our not. He has power, he's cheap, and Maggs will not be back.

Instead of complaining about him, start spending your time rooting for him and hoping he figures out major league pitching.

And I don't agree with your defensive assessment of him. He's definately got a plus arm in the outfield, and is not slow at all. I wouldn't throw him in center, but he'll do in right.
He isn't going to be a "staple" anything if he can't hit AT LEAST .240. Ozzie won't stand for that. You can't just leave a guy out there if he is flat overmatched (with no history of being able to hit MLB pitching, so don't say "we trot Valentin out there everyday").

Crede is getting closer and closer to being "overmatched" but he is at a position where the only guy that has the talent to fill the position is Josh Fields, in single A.

munchman33
08-05-2004, 11:09 AM
He isn't going to be a "staple" anything if he can't hit AT LEAST .240.
Look at the bright side....He can only get better.

quade36
08-05-2004, 11:13 AM
If we lose Maggs, I'd move Rowand to right and go out and get a center fielder. (Beltran :o:) I agree Bochard has shown nothing. Man I wish we still had Miles, he'd be 2B and Harris could be CF.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-05-2004, 11:14 AM
Well, I understand your frustration, but I'll vote for the opposite strategy. With the Sox season quickly going down the tubes, I'd play him every day. Give him a chance to work through his difficulties at the major league level. If you trade him now, you won't get very much. Also, I don't agree about him not fitting on our team. The reason that KW has stuck with him so long is not just his power, but, rather, because he is supposedly a terrific all-around player. As painful as it will be, if the Sox fall too far back in the next week or so, this is the time to let such players play. I hope that he works out; at this point, I wish that we'd sent him to Seattle instead of Jeremy Reed.
The reason KW has stuck with him so long is the huge signing bonus they gave this guy and the fear that if they launched him he would improve with somebody else.

I don't think the Sox have given him a fair trial so far. Now that the 2004 season is over, put him in right for the last 2 months every day. Give him a chance to improve. I mean, look what they've done for Crede. This guy has proven he can't hit major league pitching for any length of time and there's nothing being done to replace him.

California Sox
08-05-2004, 11:16 AM
Face it people, Joe Borchard will be a staple in right field, whether you want him to our not. He has power, he's cheap, and Maggs will not be back.
Define "staple". If it means being a starter for much of the 2005 season and then going on the Russell Branyan journey of bouncing between cities (Triple A and Majors) then, yeah, he'll be a staple. You may need to face the fact that Borchard has poor overall swing mechanics. Players like that struggle. And the one area where the Sox do have some depth is outfield. KW mentioned on the Sox web site that if the team had catastrophic injuries, he wouldn't hesitate to bring Brian Anderson up right now. Anderson will be ready by 2006 at the latest. With Lee under contract, Rowand being at least decent and Sweeney, Young and Brice also coming, Borchard will be gone. That said, I'd play him a lot the rest of the season to make sure that he can't hit.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 11:18 AM
Define "staple". If it means being a starter for much of the 2005 season and then going on the Russell Branyan journey of bouncing between cities (Triple A and Majors) then, yeah, he'll be a staple. You may need to face the fact that Borchard has poor overall swing mechanics. Players like that struggle. And the one area where the Sox do have some depth is outfield. KW mentioned on the Sox web site that if the team had catastrophic injuries, he wouldn't hesitate to bring Brian Anderson up right now. Anderson will be ready by 2006 at the latest. With Lee under contract, Rowand being at least decent and Sweeney, Young and Brice also coming, Borchard will be gone. That said, I'd play him a lot the rest of the season to make sure that he can't hit.
I'd be willing to wager that if we don't resign Maggs, Brian Anderson is patrolling CF next year, with Rowand and Lee on both sides. That is actually a really solid OF, minus the throwing arm of Lee...

Frater Perdurabo
08-05-2004, 11:26 AM
Borchard still has not had much of an opportunity. Give him the rest of the season, and give him 2005 unless another team in willing to give us another player at a key position in return. It is way too early to give up on LTP.

I'm still not convinced that Crede won't turn it around and hit .280 with 30 homers and 30 doubles. He is capable of hitting the ball to right field if he chooses. I am convinced that his problem is 100% mental. He is able to shorten his swing and go to right, he just has to decide to do it more often.

OG4LIFE
08-05-2004, 11:30 AM
I dont care how the management has said he will be great and ya da ya da. There is no room for another low batting avg only hit homers guy on this team, not that he does that anyway. Its his defense in the outfield that bothers me. I dont want a big stocky guy who cant make plays and has no arms but is just here becasue he is supposed to hit homers. I want speed, an arm, good range and D in right field. I dont want a Joe Borchard. Give me a Frank Catalanatto or Jose Cruz Jr or something. Give me a guy who will hit for avg drive in some runs and be a threat in right field. Its obvious Joe Borchard is a dinosaur from the power hitting prospects era years ago. He has no place on our team, trade him to the mets. He is not an all around good enough player, he does not look like an athlete. He looks like a big stock white guy who cant catch up to a fastball over 90 nor run down a flyball in the outfield and make a good throw. What a joke he is.
i kinda disagree on the whole defense thing... i thing JB's best asset IS his defense. unlike maggs, who does the hook slide whenever he needs to dive, JB can lay out, and is a lot more athletic in the field. he also probably has the best arm out of all of our OF's. maybe not fast enough to play CF, but athletic enough and a monster arm to play RF (if he can hit is another debate...)

thepaulbowski
08-05-2004, 11:32 AM
Borchard still has not had much of an opportunity. Give him the rest of the season, and give him 2005 unless another team in willing to give us another player at a key position in return. It is way too early to give up on LTP.

I'm still not convinced that Crede won't turn it around and hit .280 with 30 homers and 30 doubles. He is capable of hitting the ball to right field if he chooses. I am convinced that his problem is 100% mental. He is able to shorten his swing and go to right, he just has to decide to do it more often.
The team isn't helping him by putting him in this position (I don't think they have a choice, though.) The ideal place for him to be would be Charlotte where he'd be getting to play everyday and then he could go into Spring Training next year to show what he has.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Borchard still has not had much of an opportunity. Give him the rest of the season, and give him 2005 unless another team in willing to give us another player at a key position in return. It is way too early to give up on LTP.

I'm still not convinced that Crede won't turn it around and hit .280 with 30 homers and 30 doubles. He is capable of hitting the ball to right field if he chooses. I am convinced that his problem is 100% mental. He is able to shorten his swing and go to right, he just has to decide to do it more often.
Both Crede and Borchard's problems are mental, which is BY FAR the hardest to correct. Add to that, the fact that they both have L-O-N-G swings, that equals the occasional homer and a .230 average.

You have seen Borchard play...tell me with a straght face he can hack it in the major leagues.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
The team isn't helping him by putting him in this position (I don't think they have a choice, though.) The ideal place for him to be would be Charlotte where he'd be getting to play everyday and then he could go into Spring Training next year to show what he has.

Hasn't that been the plan for the last 3 years? He isn't 22 anymore.

samram
08-05-2004, 11:58 AM
Hasn't that been the plan for the last 3 years? He isn't 22 anymore.
Good point. There's nothing he can prove in AAA anymore, and he's not going to improve by getting 450 ABs there- he should be ready now, and he isn't.

OurBitchinMinny
08-05-2004, 12:07 PM
What could you get for that piece of crap borchard? Absolutely nothing

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-05-2004, 12:15 PM
Both Crede and Borchard's problems are mental, which is BY FAR the hardest to correct. Add to that, the fact that they both have L-O-N-G swings, that equals the occasional homer and a .230 average.

You have seen Borchard play...tell me with a straght face he can hack it in the major leagues.
I don't think I've seen Borchard play enough yet to be sure. But I agree that it doesn't look good. On the other hand, I have seen enough of Crede. At least give Borchard the same chance the Sox gave Crede.

CPditka
08-05-2004, 12:34 PM
Borchard has been jerked back and forth from AAA to the majors so much, he has been give a "trial" for like the past 3 yrs, or so it seems. He has proved his crap value to me. However I think he should start almost every game till Maggs gets back... Go into Spring Training and then KW should talk up JB soo much it sounds like hes goin down on him.... Then we should trade him. Hopefully we can pull a fast one on somebody and ship him JB he is not the future. However we can get a piece for next year before the start. Bear with his horrible avg and he will get better, or we will trade his azz once he whoops up on Spring Training pitching (aka AAA or worse pitching)

Lip Man 1
08-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Munchman says: "He has power, he's cheap, and Maggs will not be back."

The middle reason is the one that seems to be the real reason that he's still around. he's not that good but the Sox can't afford the 'embarassment' of cutting him after giving him five million.

By the way it's very possible Maggs WILL be back next year on a one year incentive ladel deal. I mean would you sign a guy to a contract without knowing if he'll ever be able to play regularly again?

Lip

JB98
08-05-2004, 01:35 PM
Munchman says: "He has power, he's cheap, and Maggs will not be back."

The middle reason is the one that seems to be the real reason that he's still around. he's not that good but the Sox can't afford the 'embarassment' of cutting him after giving him five million.

By the way it's very possible Maggs WILL be back next year on a one year incentive ladel deal. I mean would you sign a guy to a contract without knowing if he'll ever be able to play regularly again?
My biggest fear is that KW will cut Maggs loose on the justification that LTP is "ready" to assume the every-day RF job. I hate Borchard. I absolutely hate him, but part of me hopes he gets to play every day the rest of the year. If he does, he will prove once and for all that he sucks. That will force KW to resign Maggs to an incentive-laden deal, or look outside the organization for a RF for 2005.

alohafri
08-05-2004, 02:07 PM
JB twice hit into double plays in at least 2 different games that caused a meltdown and the Sox lost. If this guy is going to be playing on a regular basis, would it kill him to take a pitch or 2? I used to yell at the Choice because he'd do the same thing. I'd have more respect for JB if he'd just (intentionally)strike out looking rather than cost us 2 outs because he thinks he can hit the ball. Besides, there's always the chance that he could be walked.



---Mrs. Aloha

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 02:10 PM
My biggest fear is that KW will cut Maggs loose on the justification that LTP is "ready" to assume the every-day RF job. I hate Borchard. I absolutely hate him, but part of me hopes he gets to play every day the rest of the year. If he does, he will prove once and for all that he sucks. That will force KW to resign Maggs to an incentive-laden deal, or look outside the organization for a RF for 2005.
You guys are aware that we have Carl Everett under contract for next season, right?

harwar
08-05-2004, 02:16 PM
I wanted Joe to be a great player so bad that it hurts but the sad truth is that he is just not.
His swing is long and slow,hes'a bad outfielder and hes' really not very fast.
I just wonder if he totally missed his football window because he just doesn't look like a baseball player to me.

bigdommer
08-05-2004, 02:34 PM
I did a little research on some big name outfielders and how they did in their partial season callups/first full season as compared by avg and homeruns and age of their callup.

Larry Walker- .170/.241 0/19 (HR's) 23 yrs old
Manny Ramirez- .170/.269 2/17 21 yrs old
Torii Hunter- .235/.255 0/9 22 yrs old
Jim Edmonds- .246/.273 0/5 23 yrs old
Lance Berkman- .237 4 23 yrs old
Cliff Floyd- .226/.281/.130 1/4/1 21 yrs old

All of these guys struggled when not getting consistent AB's. They improved their numbers slightly when they got regular AB's. And their careers took off when they got experience under their belt. Yes, this is a small sample size and their are many that never panned out, but Joe is only 25 which is young considering that he has only been playing baseball full time for 4 years. Joe hasn't gotten more than 50 AB's in a season yet, so its hard for me to write him off.

My point: the Sox are going to have to give Joe consistent AB's before reaching a final evaluation, and we as fans will have to be patient.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 02:48 PM
I did a little research on some big name outfielders and how they did in their partial season callups/first full season as compared by avg and homeruns and age of their callup.

Larry Walker- .170/.241 0/19 (HR's) 23 yrs old
Manny Ramirez- .170/.269 2/17 21 yrs old
Torii Hunter- .235/.255 0/9 22 yrs old
Jim Edmonds- .246/.273 0/5 23 yrs old
Lance Berkman- .237 4 23 yrs old
Cliff Floyd- .226/.281/.130 1/4/1 21 yrs old

All of these guys struggled when not getting consistent AB's. They improved their numbers slightly when they got regular AB's. And their careers took off when they got experience under their belt. Yes, this is a small sample size and their are many that never panned out, but Joe is only 25 which is young considering that he has only been playing baseball full time for 4 years. Joe hasn't gotten more than 50 AB's in a season yet, so its hard for me to write him off.

My point: the Sox are going to have to give Joe consistent AB's before reaching a final evaluation, and we as fans will have to be patient.
Why don't you research those guys minor league numbers, and I guarantee they all surpass Borchards standing still. If Borchard could be half those guys, I would do a dance.