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View Full Version : Was Kenny Williams Asleep at the Wheel regarding Nomar?


Hangar18
08-05-2004, 08:48 AM
Watching that Primadonna Jack-Ass SS last nite, I cant help but wonder
how he couldve jump started this brutal offense of ours. Sure, no one
cares to hit with any regularity (besides Rowand) but the top of the
order needs a jump start and I still cant believe Mr Hamm wasnt considered.

Frater Perdurabo
08-05-2004, 09:09 AM
Hangar, you are my favorite bleeding heart Sox fan, but you have contradicted yourself.

IIRC, a few days ago, you called out the media for not reporting on Nomar's "faking" injury to force a trade. Now you blast Kenny for allegedly not trying harder to get Nomar into a Sox uniform.

I agree that the Sox offense blows right now, and the biggest need (beyond an arm transplant for Schoe) is OBP at the top of the order. But if Nomar is such a prima donna, who allegedly faked injury to get out of Boston, how could we (or Kenny, for that matter) know in advance if he would continue to be a "female dog" if he was traded to the White Sox? Wouldn't even asking Nomar that question be tampering?

Furthermore, how do we know that Kenny didn't try? Even so, what do the Sox have that Boston would want in a two-team trade? Boston said they wanted infield defense, especially at 1B and SS. Should we have traded Konerko and Valentin to Boston for two months of Nomar? Or even just Konerko? How would that help the Sox in 2004? Or, if the Sox were to replace the Cubs in the deal, do we think the Twins would have sent players to Boston to help the Sox get Nomar? Or, would Montreal want any of our prospects?

Hangar, I feel bad for disagreeing with you. I agree that the Sox lineup needs a jump-start -- or CPR. But I just don't see how they could have gotten Nomar from Boston without giving up other key players.

They need to get Frank Catalanotto from the Blue Jays.

hsnterprize
08-05-2004, 09:18 AM
Watching that Primadonna Jack-Ass SS last nite, I cant help but wonder
how he couldve jump started this brutal offense of ours. Sure, no one
cares to hit with any regularity (besides Rowand) but the top of the
order needs a jump start and I still cant believe Mr Hamm wasnt considered.Hangar...I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but how do we know you're not just frustrated about all the "everyone loves Nomar" press he and the Cubs are getting? Not to mention, the Sox are playing like crap while the Cubs are now ahead in the NL Wildcard race.

I have a feeling if Nomaw were to come to the Sox, and he didn't pan out, you'd be slamming Kenny for getting him in the first place...especially if Magglio was playing well for Boston right now.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-05-2004, 09:19 AM
Watching that Primadonna Jack-Ass SS last nite, I cant help but wonder
how he couldve jump started this brutal offense of ours. Sure, no one
cares to hit with any regularity (besides Rowand) but the top of the
order needs a jump start and I still cant believe Mr Hamm wasnt considered.Kenny's failure to get the Sox offensive help by the trading deadline basically sent up the White Flag for this year. That's not to say that he could have gotten Nomar, but Hendry's deals over the last 2 years are outstanding compared to KW. And don't say it's just because the Cubs have more money. They got Ramirez last year and Nomar this year for nothing. We got Carl Everett twice for 5 players and Roberto Alomar at the end of his career.

mmmmmbeeer
08-05-2004, 09:23 AM
Kenny's failure to get the Sox offensive help by the trading deadline basically sent up the White Flag for this year. That's not to say that he could have gotten Nomar, but Hendry's deals over the last 2 years are outstanding compared to KW. And don't say it's just because the Cubs have more money. They got Ramirez last year and Nomar this year for nothing. We got Carl Everett twice for 5 players and Roberto Alomar at the end of his career.
The sCrUBS have been so bad for so long that they have a phenomonal farm system. Their decent prospects would be great prospects in our system. Having a deep farm to trade from can make being a GM a pretty simple job.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-05-2004, 09:27 AM
The sCrUBS have been so bad for so long that they have a phenomonal farm system. Their decent prospects would be great prospects in our system. Having a deep farm to trade from can make being a GM a pretty simple job.Isn't one of the reasons the Sox farm system is so bad is that KW has traded many of their best prospects away - and not won a division title in 4 years? Also, it's not like the Cubs gave up their best prospects for Nomar.

gosox41
08-05-2004, 09:32 AM
Isn't one of the reasons the Sox farm system is so bad is that KW has traded many of their best prospects away - and not won a division title in 4 years? Also, it's not like the Cubs gave up their best prospects for Nomar.

Acutally, IMHO, the biggest reason the Sox farm system is so bad is because we haven't drafted and traded well. The only 2 guys I can see the Sox regret losing are Rauch and Reed. But of course, because of this lack of depth, it is possible the SOx traded away their best prospects. Doesn't mean they wre good prospects though.


Bob

mmmmmbeeer
08-05-2004, 09:33 AM
Isn't one of the reasons the Sox farm system is so bad is that KW has traded many of their best prospects away - and not won a division title in 4 years? Also, it's not like the Cubs gave up their best prospects for Nomar.
The only prospect that KW traded that I wish we could have back is Frankie Francisco. Other than that, blah. Our farm system was overrated when KW took over, IMO he's done very little to deplete what was already a weak farm.

As far as the Nomah trade, you're right, they didn't give up their best prospects. Nomah, struggling at the plate and supposedly still injured, as a half-season rental, was not worth a "best prospect". That's my point, the decent sCrUB prospects would be considered great prospects if they played for many other teams. They still dealt a talented pitcher with a ton of upside.

Procol Harum
08-05-2004, 10:13 AM
Nomah, struggling at the plate and supposedly still injured, as a half-season rental, was not worth a "best prospect".
Struggling at the plate?? Wasn't he hitting .321 or somesuch for the BoSox? I wish to God that Crede, Valentin and Borchard were struggling like that!

I think frankly that KW had no chance in the Nomah sweepstakes because Boston had their eye on Miienkwzychqnioxvich (Sp?)and I'm pretty sure that there was no way Minnesota was going to be dealing with us at this stage.

Solution to our ills? I think it's pretty evident that our entire scouting and farm system apparatus needs a major overhaul. When you consider that the last "good" everyday-type prospect that we've manufactured from our own system was Joe Crede...well--a decent fielding 3rd baseman with a .260 potential upside and some power is something--but not what's gonna win you any World Series by his lonely, lonely self.

thepaulbowski
08-05-2004, 11:37 AM
Kenny's failure to get the Sox offensive help by the trading deadline basically sent up the White Flag for this year. That's not to say that he could have gotten Nomar, but Hendry's deals over the last 2 years are outstanding compared to KW. And don't say it's just because the Cubs have more money. They got Ramirez last year and Nomar this year for nothing. We got Carl Everett twice for 5 players and Roberto Alomar at the end of his career.
There's a reason they were able to get Ramirez and Nomar "for nothing." They took on the contracts. Either you think money doesn't matter or you don't understand.

thepaulbowski
08-05-2004, 11:41 AM
Watching that Primadonna Jack-Ass SS last nite, I cant help but wonder
how he couldve jump started this brutal offense of ours. Sure, no one
cares to hit with any regularity (besides Rowand) but the top of the
order needs a jump start and I still cant believe Mr Hamm wasnt considered.
I'm sure KW could have convinced the Twins to become involved in this trade. After all, why would they care if the Sox got an all star shortstop.

Boston wanted to upgrade there defense at 1b and find somebody to play short. Neither of which the Sox had. The only reason the trade worked is because of Twins. The Twins would not have done the deal if KW was involved.

KingXerxes
08-05-2004, 11:48 AM
Does anybody know what the potential deal was for Carlos Delgado before he nixed it? It sounds like Williams was trying to import some offense up until the end, but it didn't work out. Boston - in my opinion - wanted Garciaparra out of the American League for PR reasons.

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 11:51 AM
Kenny can't trade for every single (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=409,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1) player out there. Also despite the belief that the flubs gave up nothing, they gave up a descent package. If kenny gave up a package like that he'd be crucified here.