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AddisonStSox
08-05-2004, 01:23 AM
Now, I'm not one by nature to give up on a team when they're down...but this nucleus of players have shown year-in-and-year-out that they cannot do it down the stretch. Sure we will see the pinwheels turn with guys like Frank and Maggs, yes we'll have some great stabs by Crede, we might even get excited over a Garland start every now and then...but the truth is, and its a sad one indeed, that it might be time to change the dynamic of this ballclub and I think this might be the off-season in which it gets underway. We can only hope Crede takes that step, Garland stops flirting with greatness and attains it, Frank stops whining, Jose shaves, etc. for so long...at what point is it time to bring in some new bodies? Although I have grown to love these guys over the past, say 3-5 years, they have simply not lived up to their lofty expectations.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it..." its broke Kenny.

doublem23
08-05-2004, 01:57 AM
I disagree 100%. The nucleus of this team is very good. The problem with the Sox is that they have constantly not answered certain, nagging holes that have appeared and 2004 is proving to be no exception. The fifth starter was a big hole early in the year and that has cost the Sox at least 5, and probably more, games in the standings to Minnesota and the wild card leaders. Though, we did lose Frank and Maggs, I don't think that the problems the Sox have encountered are as a result of a faulty team core as much as they are a poor effort to bring in players to fill holes and poor efforts by those brought in to fill those holes.

The Sox do not need to completely rebuild their roster (something I am deathly afraid KW and Ozzie are going to start doing next year). They need to find the right players to play the right roles on this team. Here's my rough estimation of the Sox at each level...

CATCHER: Huge, huge hole. Sandy Alomar, Jr. isn't getting younger, Jamie Burke is a nice guy to have on the team, but he's not starter material, and Ben Davis does still have a nice ceiling, but whether or not he'll ever get there is an entirely different question. And even if he does turn it around, I don't think too many teams have the luxury of having one MLB-quality catcher.

FIRST BASE: I am not sold on Konerko, but I think the Sox could do worse. He does not produce as much as I'd like from this position, but with his contract I think it is very unlikely that he will be moved.

SECOND BASE: Right now I am fine with a platoon of Willie Harris and Juan Uribe.

SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

THIRD BASE: Not ready to give up on Joe Crede yet.

LEFT FIELD: I'd prefer to lose Valentin, but I'd also be willing to trade Carlos Lee. He's got a smaller contract than Konerko, so I think the Sox could get more for him in return. That, and I don't think Carlos produces the kind of power numbers I'd like to see from a left fielder.

CENTER FIELD: This has pretty much been a hole for as long as I can remember. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Sox go after someone who can play everyday and get on base consistently, but I'd be willing to settle with someone who crushes righties to platoon with Aaron.

RIGHT FIELD: Big question mark. If Maggs resigns, even for 1 year, we're set. If not, we need to replace his production. Joe Borchard ain't cuttin' it. I don't mind Everett starting here, but I don't love the idea of him being the bat we lean our offense on.

DESIGNATED HITTER: Not sure of Frank Thomas' contract situation, but I'd be very surprised to see him in another uniform. Again, if he's moved, though, we have another gaping hole in the middle of this lineup.

STARTING PITCHING: Good duo of Buehrle and Garcia anchoring the group and a good duo of Garland and Contreras behind them. I reeeeally want the Sox to sign someone to shore up this group and be a #2/#3 type, since I doubt we'll be chasing any aces (and it would be economically silly, too).

BULLPEN: The foundations for a solid 'pen are there, but some moves need to be made. I expect Shingo to be as effective for at least 1-2 more years. Damaso is still a solid guy, but I'd be willing to deal him for another arm or two (his trade value is still high) and Politte is all right when he's all right. I wouldn't mind a new arm or two here, but we'll see what happens.


I don't really know who's a free agent at the end of the year, but I would say these are the most pressing needs for the Sox, just on the MLB level.
1) One more good starter
2) Lead-off hitter who can either play center field or short
3) Power bat somewhere... This becomes #2 or even #1 if Maggs and/or Frank depart.
4) Another reliable arm or two for the bullpen
5) Catcher

AddisonStSox
08-05-2004, 02:12 AM
I disagree 100%. The nucleus of this team is very good. The problem with the Sox is that they have constantly not answered certain, nagging holes that have appeared and 2004 is proving to be no exception. The fifth starter was a big hole early in the year and that has cost the Sox at least 5, and probably more, games in the standings to Minnesota and the wild card leaders. Though, we did lose Frank and Maggs, I don't think that the problems the Sox have encountered are as a result of a faulty team core as much as they are a poor effort to bring in players to fill holes and poor efforts by those brought in to fill those holes.

The Sox do not need to completely rebuild their roster (something I am deathly afraid KW and Ozzie are going to start doing next year). They need to find the right players to play the right roles on this team. Here's my rough estimation of the Sox at each level...

CATCHER: Huge, huge hole. Sandy Alomar, Jr. isn't getting younger, Jamie Burke is a nice guy to have on the team, but he's not starter material, and Ben Davis does still have a nice ceiling, but whether or not he'll ever get there is an entirely different question. And even if he does turn it around, I don't think too many teams have the luxury of having one MLB-quality catcher.

FIRST BASE: I am not sold on Konerko, but I think the Sox could do worse. He does not produce as much as I'd like from this position, but with his contract I think it is very unlikely that he will be moved.

SECOND BASE: Right now I am fine with a platoon of Willie Harris and Juan Uribe.

SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

THIRD BASE: Not ready to give up on Joe Crede yet.

LEFT FIELD: I'd prefer to lose Valentin, but I'd also be willing to trade Carlos Lee. He's got a smaller contract than Konerko, so I think the Sox could get more for him in return. That, and I don't think Carlos produces the kind of power numbers I'd like to see from a left fielder.

CENTER FIELD: This has pretty much been a hole for as long as I can remember. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Sox go after someone who can play everyday and get on base consistently, but I'd be willing to settle with someone who crushes righties to platoon with Aaron.

RIGHT FIELD: Big question mark. If Maggs resigns, even for 1 year, we're set. If not, we need to replace his production. Joe Borchard ain't cuttin' it. I don't mind Everett starting here, but I don't love the idea of him being the bat we lean our offense on.

DESIGNATED HITTER: Not sure of Frank Thomas' contract situation, but I'd be very surprised to see him in another uniform. Again, if he's moved, though, we have another gaping hole in the middle of this lineup.

STARTING PITCHING: Good duo of Buehrle and Garcia anchoring the group and a good duo of Garland and Contreras behind them. I reeeeally want the Sox to sign someone to shore up this group and be a #2/#3 type, since I doubt we'll be chasing any aces (and it would be economically silly, too).

BULLPEN: The foundations for a solid 'pen are there, but some moves need to be made. I expect Shingo to be as effective for at least 1-2 more years. Damaso is still a solid guy, but I'd be willing to deal him for another arm or two (his trade value is still high) and Politte is all right when he's all right. I wouldn't mind a new arm or two here, but we'll see what happens.


I don't really know who's a free agent at the end of the year, but I would say these are the most pressing needs for the Sox, just on the MLB level.
1) One more good starter
2) Lead-off hitter who can either play center field or short
3) Power bat somewhere... This becomes #2 or even #1 if Maggs and/or Frank depart.
4) Another reliable arm or two for the bullpen
5) Catcher
That answer seems like a big..."I disagree, but..."

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want to get rid of the Sox we have become accustomed to, but it seems you have found some serious issues at nearly every position.

I think our starting pitching will be fine for the next few years. 4/5s of the rotation are secured and we can only hope that somone either in our farm system, or in the free agent market can secure that final spot. As far as offensive production goes, our current Sox favorites can be stunning at times, but also swing for the fences far too often and fall into familar habits. I think some move needs to be made during the off-season, its just a matter of how many.

Does anyone think Quincy Carter has any baseball left in him?

Konerko05
08-05-2004, 02:15 AM
I disagree 100%. The nucleus of this team is very good. The problem with the Sox is that they have constantly not answered certain, nagging holes that have appeared and 2004 is proving to be no exception. The fifth starter was a big hole early in the year and that has cost the Sox at least 5, and probably more, games in the standings to Minnesota and the wild card leaders. Though, we did lose Frank and Maggs, I don't think that the problems the Sox have encountered are as a result of a faulty team core as much as they are a poor effort to bring in players to fill holes and poor efforts by those brought in to fill those holes.

The Sox do not need to completely rebuild their roster (something I am deathly afraid KW and Ozzie are going to start doing next year). They need to find the right players to play the right roles on this team. Here's my rough estimation of the Sox at each level...

CATCHER: Huge, huge hole. Sandy Alomar, Jr. isn't getting younger, Jamie Burke is a nice guy to have on the team, but he's not starter material, and Ben Davis does still have a nice ceiling, but whether or not he'll ever get there is an entirely different question. And even if he does turn it around, I don't think too many teams have the luxury of having one MLB-quality catcher.

FIRST BASE: I am not sold on Konerko, but I think the Sox could do worse. He does not produce as much as I'd like from this position, but with his contract I think it is very unlikely that he will be moved.

SECOND BASE: Right now I am fine with a platoon of Willie Harris and Juan Uribe.

SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

THIRD BASE: Not ready to give up on Joe Crede yet.

LEFT FIELD: I'd prefer to lose Valentin, but I'd also be willing to trade Carlos Lee. He's got a smaller contract than Konerko, so I think the Sox could get more for him in return. That, and I don't think Carlos produces the kind of power numbers I'd like to see from a left fielder.

CENTER FIELD: This has pretty much been a hole for as long as I can remember. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Sox go after someone who can play everyday and get on base consistently, but I'd be willing to settle with someone who crushes righties to platoon with Aaron.

RIGHT FIELD: Big question mark. If Maggs resigns, even for 1 year, we're set. If not, we need to replace his production. Joe Borchard ain't cuttin' it. I don't mind Everett starting here, but I don't love the idea of him being the bat we lean our offense on.

DESIGNATED HITTER: Not sure of Frank Thomas' contract situation, but I'd be very surprised to see him in another uniform. Again, if he's moved, though, we have another gaping hole in the middle of this lineup.

STARTING PITCHING: Good duo of Buehrle and Garcia anchoring the group and a good duo of Garland and Contreras behind them. I reeeeally want the Sox to sign someone to shore up this group and be a #2/#3 type, since I doubt we'll be chasing any aces (and it would be economically silly, too).

BULLPEN: The foundations for a solid 'pen are there, but some moves need to be made. I expect Shingo to be as effective for at least 1-2 more years. Damaso is still a solid guy, but I'd be willing to deal him for another arm or two (his trade value is still high) and Politte is all right when he's all right. I wouldn't mind a new arm or two here, but we'll see what happens.


I don't really know who's a free agent at the end of the year, but I would say these are the most pressing needs for the Sox, just on the MLB level.
1) One more good starter
2) Lead-off hitter who can either play center field or short
3) Power bat somewhere... This becomes #2 or even #1 if Maggs and/or Frank depart.
4) Another reliable arm or two for the bullpen
5) Catcher
So out of all the positions, you're only happy with Harris/Uribe but you disagree 100%?!

doublem23
08-05-2004, 02:21 AM
So out of all the positions, you're only happy with Harris/Uribe but you disagree 100%?!No, I'm happy with the starting rotation. Some, like first base, left field, right field, etc. I'm happy with, but I think there could be some improvement.

I also think it depends on how you define the term, "nucleus." I think nucleus is only a handful of players that you build around, and I think if KW keeps this team together, our nucleus is Buehrle, Garcia, Maggs, Frank, Konerko/Lee, and Shingo and I think that's an excellent nucleus to build around. If you define it as the entire line-up, a few starters, and a few bullpen arms, then I waver.

I think the Sox are in better shape than a lot of doom and gloomers have them to be in.

jabrch
08-05-2004, 03:43 AM
DoubleM - what more do you want from PK? .289/.367/.562 with 28 HR and 74 RBI? How may 1Bs have been more productive than he has this year?

mrwag
08-05-2004, 09:02 AM
I think the Sox are in better shape than a lot of doom and gloomers have them to be in.
You think the Sox are in good shape being 6 games back on August 5th? Sorry, let's be real here. The 2004 season is over guys. I'm as much of a die-hard as anyone here, but lets face it. The "core" of this team has shown the same results for the past 4 years. I think it's time for some shake-ups.

owensmouth
08-05-2004, 09:09 AM
SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

What happens if you can't find "a high OBP guy who can play average defense here"?

gosox41
08-05-2004, 09:12 AM
Now, I'm not one by nature to give up on a team when they're down...but this nucleus of players have shown year-in-and-year-out that they cannot do it down the stretch. Sure we will see the pinwheels turn with guys like Frank and Maggs, yes we'll have some great stabs by Crede, we might even get excited over a Garland start every now and then...but the truth is, and its a sad one indeed, that it might be time to change the dynamic of this ballclub and I think this might be the off-season in which it gets underway. We can only hope Crede takes that step, Garland stops flirting with greatness and attains it, Frank stops whining, Jose shaves, etc. for so long...at what point is it time to bring in some new bodies? Although I have grown to love these guys over the past, say 3-5 years, they have simply not lived up to their lofty expectations.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it..." its broke Kenny.

I said this after 2003. I'm surprised it took so many people 4 years to see the obvious. As far as I'm concerned everone but Frank, Buehrle, and Garcia are trade bait. And if a team blows me away for an offer for Buerhle or Garcia, they can go to.


Bob

gosox41
08-05-2004, 09:14 AM
I disagree 100%. The nucleus of this team is very good. The problem with the Sox is that they have constantly not answered certain, nagging holes that have appeared and 2004 is proving to be no exception. The fifth starter was a big hole early in the year and that has cost the Sox at least 5, and probably more, games in the standings to Minnesota and the wild card leaders. Though, we did lose Frank and Maggs, I don't think that the problems the Sox have encountered are as a result of a faulty team core as much as they are a poor effort to bring in players to fill holes and poor efforts by those brought in to fill those holes.

The Sox do not need to completely rebuild their roster (something I am deathly afraid KW and Ozzie are going to start doing next year). They need to find the right players to play the right roles on this team. Here's my rough estimation of the Sox at each level...

CATCHER: Huge, huge hole. Sandy Alomar, Jr. isn't getting younger, Jamie Burke is a nice guy to have on the team, but he's not starter material, and Ben Davis does still have a nice ceiling, but whether or not he'll ever get there is an entirely different question. And even if he does turn it around, I don't think too many teams have the luxury of having one MLB-quality catcher.

FIRST BASE: I am not sold on Konerko, but I think the Sox could do worse. He does not produce as much as I'd like from this position, but with his contract I think it is very unlikely that he will be moved.

SECOND BASE: Right now I am fine with a platoon of Willie Harris and Juan Uribe.

SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

THIRD BASE: Not ready to give up on Joe Crede yet.

LEFT FIELD: I'd prefer to lose Valentin, but I'd also be willing to trade Carlos Lee. He's got a smaller contract than Konerko, so I think the Sox could get more for him in return. That, and I don't think Carlos produces the kind of power numbers I'd like to see from a left fielder.

CENTER FIELD: This has pretty much been a hole for as long as I can remember. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Sox go after someone who can play everyday and get on base consistently, but I'd be willing to settle with someone who crushes righties to platoon with Aaron.

RIGHT FIELD: Big question mark. If Maggs resigns, even for 1 year, we're set. If not, we need to replace his production. Joe Borchard ain't cuttin' it. I don't mind Everett starting here, but I don't love the idea of him being the bat we lean our offense on.

DESIGNATED HITTER: Not sure of Frank Thomas' contract situation, but I'd be very surprised to see him in another uniform. Again, if he's moved, though, we have another gaping hole in the middle of this lineup.

STARTING PITCHING: Good duo of Buehrle and Garcia anchoring the group and a good duo of Garland and Contreras behind them. I reeeeally want the Sox to sign someone to shore up this group and be a #2/#3 type, since I doubt we'll be chasing any aces (and it would be economically silly, too).

BULLPEN: The foundations for a solid 'pen are there, but some moves need to be made. I expect Shingo to be as effective for at least 1-2 more years. Damaso is still a solid guy, but I'd be willing to deal him for another arm or two (his trade value is still high) and Politte is all right when he's all right. I wouldn't mind a new arm or two here, but we'll see what happens.


I don't really know who's a free agent at the end of the year, but I would say these are the most pressing needs for the Sox, just on the MLB level.
1) One more good starter
2) Lead-off hitter who can either play center field or short
3) Power bat somewhere... This becomes #2 or even #1 if Maggs and/or Frank depart.
4) Another reliable arm or two for the bullpen
5) Catcher
Dont forget another need:

6) One good GM who can actually fill the same holes this team has now had for 4 years.



Bob

bobj4400
08-05-2004, 09:16 AM
As long as Valentin is not on this team next year, I will be happy. I have really begun to despise him as a ballplayer this year. He embodies everything that is wrong with this Sox team. Brutal defensively. And offensively couldnt lay down a bunt to save his life. NEVER moves the runners over. And is usually a strikeout or a home run. I have seen enough of this movie. Meh.

owensmouth
08-05-2004, 09:16 AM
I said this after 2003. I'm surprised it took so many people 4 years to see the obvious. As far as I'm concerned everone but Frank, Buehrle, and Garcia are trade bait. And if a team blows me away for an offer for Buerhle or Garcia, they can go to.


Bob
How about contraction?

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 09:38 AM
DoubleM - what more do you want from PK? .289/.367/.562 with 28 HR and 74 RBI? How may 1Bs have been more productive than he has this year?
I think it was more of over the years, Paul's production hasn't been the best. But for your question the answer is:
Helton, Pujols, Thome, Casey. Close: Overbay, Teixeira, Dereck Lee, Nevin.

gosox41
08-05-2004, 09:49 AM
How about contraction?

THat's the only option worse then last place. And speaking of last place, that's where the Sox are headed after this season if they don't have a big shake up to this team. It may not happen in 2005 but wait until '06 or '07. Because the Indians and Tigers are on the upswing. Minnesota clearly does a better job drafting and developin talent then the Sox. And KC is the only team that stands between us and being the laughingstock of baseball.


Bob

Dadawg_77
08-05-2004, 09:53 AM
The Sox need to add OBP guys to this team desperately next year. I would likethe Sox to go after minor free agents like a Catalanotto, Stairs, Vander Wal to sure up the bench. They will be better then Borchard or Timo. Since the Sox are letting Mags go, I would like to see them pick up J.D. Drew to fill his spot.

Second, Third, Short, Center/Right are the postions where the Sox have major room to add without killing the team. The FA is a little thin in those postions so Kenny may have to work a trade to fill them, which means probally the loss of one of the core players on the team.

owensmouth
08-05-2004, 10:00 AM
Gutting the franchise means no one comes to the games. Dropping the payroll to be able to say we got money doesn't mean someone will come here voluntarily. Before you cut too much, I suggest that you look at how well the Bulls have performed over the past few years. They are, after all, another Reinsdorf production

Win1ForMe
08-05-2004, 10:21 AM
Because the Indians and Tigers are on the upswing. Minnesota clearly does a better job drafting and developin talent then the Sox.
Somehow I'm not very concerned with those teams. The Indians have gotten career seasons out of Matt Lawton, Ron Belliard, and Jake Westbrook, not to mention great individual performances from Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner. They will improve their bullpen in the off-season, but I would expect at least a slight drop-off in other areas.

The Tigers on the other hand are relying on a 32 year-old, injury-prone catcher, who's having his best season in 4 years, and Carlos Guillen (a career .275 hitter with a previous high 9 HRs) hitting .327 while on pace to hit 26 HR.

Dan H
08-05-2004, 10:27 AM
The sad fact remains that the "core" of this team has been together since 2000 and they have one division title and three playoff losses to show for it. I am not one who will be optimistic if Ordonez comes back next year along with Frank. It is time for some changes. The expectations have been high, the results have been low. And it all can't be blamed on injuries.

joeynach
08-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Now, I'm not one by nature to give up on a team when they're down...but this nucleus of players have shown year-in-and-year-out that they cannot do it down the stretch. Sure we will see the pinwheels turn with guys like Frank and Maggs, yes we'll have some great stabs by Crede, we might even get excited over a Garland start every now and then...but the truth is, and its a sad one indeed, that it might be time to change the dynamic of this ballclub and I think this might be the off-season in which it gets underway. We can only hope Crede takes that step, Garland stops flirting with greatness and attains it, Frank stops whining, Jose shaves, etc. for so long...at what point is it time to bring in some new bodies? Although I have grown to love these guys over the past, say 3-5 years, they have simply not lived up to their lofty expectations.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it..." its broke Kenny.
This is not the 1st time we have all said this. However i would like to see a team built around Lee, Frank, Paulie. I think they are the identity of the sox to our fans. Not superstars, not showboaters, just hard workers that relate to a nice blue collar fan base. They need the right supporting cast to be successful. They need speed, fundamentals, OBP, athletics, and such around them. Compliment those big 3 with a Guzman, Catalanatto, Kendall, Pavano, Williamson, and Cruz Jr and we would be great. Instead we have Valentin, Borchard, Alomar/Burke, Schoenweiss, and Jackson/Politte. We need the right tools to fix the ship as of right now we dont have them.

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 10:30 AM
The future of the sox is now in better shape then it was to start the season whether people believe that or not. We're already going into next season with Freddy, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland and then either Diaz/Cotts in the rotation. I don't think there is a need to add another arm to that rotation that is already very good, imo. Damaso and Shingo will be back to anchor the bullpen, Frank, Pauly, Carlos, Arow, Crede, Willie, Davis are all signed for next year, however I do expect either Carlos or Pauly to be traded in the offseason. The offens will get a face lift over the offseason to add more ozzie type of players. With the rotation the sox have built for the next couple of years they should be a very good team.

Jerko
08-05-2004, 10:33 AM
What bothers me is this. The Twins have lost many Sox killers, such luminaries as Denny Hocking, Dustin Mohr, A.J. Pierzxineasdfkje, Booby Kielty, and now, Doug Manichevitz. They haven't had the biggest Sox killer, Joe Mays, all season, and we all know the Sox track record against the likes of Eric Milton, LaTroy Walk-ins, and Everyday Eddie Gua-lardo. That's what, 9 players that used to kill us GONE and they're STILL 6 games ahead of us, and they actually INCREASED their lead while playing Boston and Anaheim as we were playing Detroit and KC. But we've been the better team the past 3 years and they have a tougher schedule left. I know injuries are part of the game but hopefully with Garcia and Contreras on board now we can make a move, even though they are the only 2 starters to actually win in the past 10 games.

SoxxoS
08-05-2004, 10:49 AM
What bothers me is this. The Twins have lost many Sox killers, such luminaries as Denny Hocking, Dustin Mohr, A.J. Pierzxineasdfkje, Booby Kielty, and now, Doug Manichevitz. They haven't had the biggest Sox killer, Joe Mays, all season, and we all know the Sox track record against the likes of Eric Milton, LaTroy Walk-ins, and Everyday Eddie Gua-lardo. That's what, 9 players that used to kill us GONE and they're STILL 6 games ahead of us, and they actually INCREASED their lead while playing Boston and Anaheim as we were playing Detroit and KC. But we've been the better team the past 3 years and they have a tougher schedule left. I know injuries are part of the game but hopefully with Garcia and Contreras on board now we can make a move, even though they are the only 2 starters to actually win in the past 10 games.
We were in first place 2 weeks ago...and we DO have an easier schedule than the Twins which we SHOULD have capitalized on but probably won't b/c we lost our 2 best hitters.

The Twins lose players, but add guys that do the job just as well or better...
Losing Hawkins/Eddie? Take a flyer on Joe freakin Nathan and have him be Eric Gagne Jr.
Lose Mientkeirnheklrhawicz? Replace him with the better hitting Morneau.
Joe Mays was only really good against us, and they replaced him with Mulholland who is filling in fine (and I don't know how). Not to mention filling acquiring Silva, producing Santana and not giving up on Radke.

We were fine...2 damn weeks ago. We need a nice winning streak, which I think we can possibly pull off if we can finally get some good outings from Garland and Show/5th starter. Easier said than done.

I am at the point where Garcia or Buerhle goes to the bump, we should win. I am confident in Contreras. Garland needs to step it up. I think he is the key to spin off 7 or 8 in a row. It could still happen.

Remember how quickly we lost ground? We can gain it just as quick. Keep the faith...at least for another 3 weeks. :wink:

samram
08-05-2004, 10:53 AM
The Sox need to add OBP guys to this team desperately next year. I would likethe Sox to go after minor free agents like a Catalanotto, Stairs, Vander Wal to sure up the bench. They will be better then Borchard or Timo. Since the Sox are letting Mags go, I would like to see them pick up J.D. Drew to fill his spot.

Second, Third, Short, Center/Right are the postions where the Sox have major room to add without killing the team. The FA is a little thin in those postions so Kenny may have to work a trade to fill them, which means probally the loss of one of the core players on the team.
Well, at second, I wouldn't mind Womack, seeing what he has done for the Cards this year, but it would be risky. But you're right in that the team really needs an overhaul at a lot of positions, and they need more depth. I think Frank, Buehrle, Freddy, Shingo, A-Row, and Marte, are the only ones who will definitely be here next year- the rest of the roster is a question. Trading PK or CLee to get better up the middle is completely acceptable from my POV.

ChiSoxBobette
08-05-2004, 11:09 AM
I disagree 100%. The nucleus of this team is very good. The problem with the Sox is that they have constantly not answered certain, nagging holes that have appeared and 2004 is proving to be no exception. The fifth starter was a big hole early in the year and that has cost the Sox at least 5, and probably more, games in the standings to Minnesota and the wild card leaders. Though, we did lose Frank and Maggs, I don't think that the problems the Sox have encountered are as a result of a faulty team core as much as they are a poor effort to bring in players to fill holes and poor efforts by those brought in to fill those holes.

The Sox do not need to completely rebuild their roster (something I am deathly afraid KW and Ozzie are going to start doing next year). They need to find the right players to play the right roles on this team. Here's my rough estimation of the Sox at each level...

CATCHER: Huge, huge hole. Sandy Alomar, Jr. isn't getting younger, Jamie Burke is a nice guy to have on the team, but he's not starter material, and Ben Davis does still have a nice ceiling, but whether or not he'll ever get there is an entirely different question. And even if he does turn it around, I don't think too many teams have the luxury of having one MLB-quality catcher.

FIRST BASE: I am not sold on Konerko, but I think the Sox could do worse. He does not produce as much as I'd like from this position, but with his contract I think it is very unlikely that he will be moved.

SECOND BASE: Right now I am fine with a platoon of Willie Harris and Juan Uribe.

SHORTSTOP: Jose Valentin is a nice guy, good in the clubhouse, but in all honesty, he, Konerko and Carlos are pretty much the same type of hitter and the Sox do need to move a bit away from the current setup they have. With both Paul and Carlos under contract for 2005, I think Jose is the easiest to move. If we could somehow find a high OBP guy who can play average defense here, I'd be thrilled.

THIRD BASE: Not ready to give up on Joe Crede yet.

LEFT FIELD: I'd prefer to lose Valentin, but I'd also be willing to trade Carlos Lee. He's got a smaller contract than Konerko, so I think the Sox could get more for him in return. That, and I don't think Carlos produces the kind of power numbers I'd like to see from a left fielder.

CENTER FIELD: This has pretty much been a hole for as long as I can remember. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Sox go after someone who can play everyday and get on base consistently, but I'd be willing to settle with someone who crushes righties to platoon with Aaron.

RIGHT FIELD: Big question mark. If Maggs resigns, even for 1 year, we're set. If not, we need to replace his production. Joe Borchard ain't cuttin' it. I don't mind Everett starting here, but I don't love the idea of him being the bat we lean our offense on.

DESIGNATED HITTER: Not sure of Frank Thomas' contract situation, but I'd be very surprised to see him in another uniform. Again, if he's moved, though, we have another gaping hole in the middle of this lineup.

STARTING PITCHING: Good duo of Buehrle and Garcia anchoring the group and a good duo of Garland and Contreras behind them. I reeeeally want the Sox to sign someone to shore up this group and be a #2/#3 type, since I doubt we'll be chasing any aces (and it would be economically silly, too).

BULLPEN: The foundations for a solid 'pen are there, but some moves need to be made. I expect Shingo to be as effective for at least 1-2 more years. Damaso is still a solid guy, but I'd be willing to deal him for another arm or two (his trade value is still high) and Politte is all right when he's all right. I wouldn't mind a new arm or two here, but we'll see what happens.


I don't really know who's a free agent at the end of the year, but I would say these are the most pressing needs for the Sox, just on the MLB level.
1) One more good starter
2) Lead-off hitter who can either play center field or short
3) Power bat somewhere... This becomes #2 or even #1 if Maggs and/or Frank depart.
4) Another reliable arm or two for the bullpen
5) Catcher
AH HMMMM. We have a leadoff man who plays CF, I think Aaron Rowand has been the only bright spot in this dismal 2nd half as far as our offense & defense. If he was out there from day one playing CF and leading off he probably would have been our rep. in the All-Star game not Loiaza. I wish everyone would just see that this guy go's out there and busts his butt every game and has earned the starting CF job now and in the future. Last night we had how many hits vs. KC and a pitcher who was 2-9 and who got those hits AR thats who , so when you say we need another CF who can leadoff look no farther than Aaron Rowand who by the way is hitting over .300. Our problems are with , as always, finding a 5th starter, upgrading our catching, would'nt have been great if we had gone and brought in I-Rod over the winter, Sign Maggs, and bullpen help. And I think now that we will next year be going into a season where we have our starting four pitchers signed then JR & KW can concentrate on those areas to get us that much more closer to getting to a WS.

AddisonStSox
08-05-2004, 11:32 AM
The future of the sox is now in better shape then it was to start the season whether people believe that or not. We're already going into next season with Freddy, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland and then either Diaz/Cotts in the rotation. I don't think there is a need to add another arm to that rotation that is already very good, imo. Damaso and Shingo will be back to anchor the bullpen, Frank, Pauly, Carlos, Arow, Crede, Willie, Davis are all signed for next year, however I do expect either Carlos or Pauly to be traded in the offseason. The offens will get a face lift over the offseason to add more ozzie type of players. With the rotation the sox have built for the next couple of years they should be a very good team.
At what point do you give up on a "very good team." I don't know how many more chances we have to give to these guys. I would love nothing more than for KW to snab a Pavano, Kendall, etc. and make all our problems go away, but I think they have shown over the years that its deeper than that. Rebuilding this team is a double-edged sword because we, the White Sox faithful, want a WS title, yet we couldn't stand a couple of re-building years, at least I couldn't. When you have the Florida Marlins winning 2 WS titles and the Diamondbacks winning one before we have even made one serious playoff push, it gets very very agitating.

Wealz
08-05-2004, 11:34 AM
They have to get the best combination of players (regardless of position)/freed up money for Lee and Konerko and maybe throw Garland and Marte in there too.

OEO Magglio
08-05-2004, 11:45 AM
At what point do you give up on a "very good team." I don't know how many more chances we have to give to these guys. I would love nothing more than for KW to snab a Pavano, Kendall, etc. and make all our problems go away, but I think they have shown over the years that its deeper than that. Rebuilding this team is a double-edged sword because we, the White Sox faithful, want a WS title, yet we couldn't stand a couple of re-building years, at least I couldn't. When you have the Florida Marlins winning 2 WS titles and the Diamondbacks winning one before we have even made one serious playoff push, it gets very very agitating.This will be the first time in a long time we haven't gone into the offseason really needing a starting pitcher. The pitching the last couple of years hasn't really been the problem and now our starting pitching is very solid. I believe the offense will be a completely different makeup next year with speed and smart baseball players. I think the only offensive players that are sure to be starting next year are arow and frank. I'd say either pauly or pk are gone for sure. I love how the pitching looks for the next couple of years, I agree it's time to break up this offensive core and I believe that will happen.

Lip Man 1
08-05-2004, 01:30 PM
OEO:

Still need a fifth starter or are you comfortable running out a repeat of the last two season's 'musical chairs?'

And before you say 'it doesn't matter' care to have back now the nine games we threw away trying out every mother's son for the first two and a half months?

Lip