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Lip Man 1
08-02-2004, 11:54 AM
More circumstantial evidence that Ozzie is going to strongly push for a lot of changes to the 'core' group this off season. His comments today to Joe Cowley of the Daily Southtown:

On Joe Crede:

"I think Crede has the best tools I see in the kids at third base, but it's time for it to click, if you wait another year to see what he can do, it's going to be hard for him and for everybody."


"When you don't have a year like that and you're expecting somebody to be good and all of a sudden it never comes, you give a lot of people doubt. A lot of people think, 'Is this for real or is this is a moment thing or a month?' You start to put a lot of doubts in their mind."



"I'm not going to say he's a disappointment, you say disappointed, you feel like it was a bad year. Crede's had some big hits for us, but I expected more from him. I think this kid is his own enemy."



On the White Sox mindset:

"This club, they have a lot of talent but when they go down, they have a tendency to not believe in themselves. They don't fight back."

One can infer from his comments that he is calling the team 'soft' ('gutless?') which would explain the constant underachieving since the start of the 2001 season wouldn't it?

Lip

samram
08-02-2004, 12:26 PM
Lip, I don't think there's any doubt that Ozzie wants a different style of team. I think the trade Saturday was the start of a process to move the team from being offense-oriented, to being pitching and defense oriented. They already have four starters in line for next season. I know there are differing opinions on whether Contreras and Garland are any good, but at least they're not first or second year guys being counted on to throw 175 innings like Danny Wright last year and Kip Wells in 2000.

JB98
08-02-2004, 12:50 PM
Lip, I don't think there's any doubt that Ozzie wants a different style of team. I think the trade Saturday was the start of a process to move the team from being offense-oriented, to being pitching and defense oriented. They already have four starters in line for next season. I know there are differing opinions on whether Contreras and Garland are any good, but at least they're not first or second year guys being counted on to throw 175 innings like Danny Wright last year and Kip Wells in 2000.
We play in a notorious hitters' park, though, so I don't think we can totally go away from the philosophy of power hitting. However, there isn't much question that we need a stronger and deeper pitching staff if we want to end this World Series drought in the near future.

samram
08-02-2004, 12:53 PM
We play in a notorious hitters' park, though, so I don't think we can totally go away from the philosophy of power hitting. However, there isn't much question that we need a stronger and deeper pitching staff if we want to end this World Series drought in the near future.
I agree with not going completely away from power-hitting, but it would be nice to have more two and three run shots, instead of solo shots. That means getting some more guys with higher OBPs. Also, when they're on, Garland, Buehrle, Contreras, Shingo are all ground ball pitchers, and Garcia can get a lot of grounders with his change too. Therefore, having a good defensive infield would be very beneficial.

wdelaney72
08-02-2004, 12:55 PM
We play in a notorious hitters' park, though, so I don't think we can totally go away from the philosophy of power hitting. However, there isn't much question that we need a stronger and deeper pitching staff if we want to end this World Series drought in the near future.
Yes we can go away from power hitting. How about smart hitting where players actually get on base? I don't care what the dimensions of the park are. Power hitters = strike outs. I've seen enough of that.

soltrain21
08-02-2004, 01:32 PM
Yes we can go away from power hitting. How about smart hitting where players actually get on base? I don't care what the dimensions of the park are. Power hitters = strike outs. I've seen enough of that.

And if we have a "hitters park" these guys are going to give it a ride sometimes. I would much rather have contact hitters.

HomeFish
08-02-2004, 01:35 PM
Yes we can go away from power hitting. How about smart hitting where players actually get on base?

We saw that from this team on opening day.

Cubbiesuck13
08-03-2004, 08:30 AM
I don't think saturday was the first day we have seen Williams make a move towards 'Ozzie ball' players. When he got Uribe this offseason, most thought that he would have a marginal year and take over when Jose gets let go after this season. I, for one, am happy with that senario but would like to see Crede stay simply for his D. I don't have no idea what is going to happen at second now that the sox seem to be a little hard on Harris (that is only from the comments made by other posters regaurding 'Jerry's mouthpiece' Hawk). However, they do need someone who has lots of range with the pitchers we have. I look forward to the day when we CAN play small ball and not fake it with guys who can't/don't.

jabrch
08-03-2004, 10:30 AM
On the White Sox mindset:

"This club, they have a lot of talent but when they go down, they have a tendency to not believe in themselves. They don't fight back."

One can infer from his comments that he is calling the team 'soft' ('gutless?') which would explain the constant underachieving since the start of the 2001 season wouldn't it?

Lip
I think that's coach-speak. We have seen this team come back all season. I don't think they are calling it soft or gutless as a team. I think it is just more of the message that "its jus dah I tell ju wah, if ju du noh wan to play da game rit, ju will noh play on my team."

Frater Perdurabo
08-03-2004, 10:46 AM
Joe Crede has all the talent in the world. He's capable of being smart, too, as evidenced by the fact that he DELIBERATELY hit the ball to right field in the 7th inning on July 24 against the Tigers for 2 RBI. That brought the Sox back into the game and set up the 8th inning sac fly to tie, which set up his walkoff homer.

He just needs to "be smart" more often by shortening his swing and going the other way. That should come with age and maturity.

I want Crede to remain on this team. He's still young, is an absolute vacuum at third (helps the pitchers), has good power and will improve his average over time. Even if he only tops out at .260 with 30 homers, that's good for a #6 hitter.

akingamongstmen
08-03-2004, 11:18 AM
Joe Crede has all the talent in the world. He's capable of being smart, too, as evidenced by the fact that he DELIBERATELY hit the ball to right field in the 7th inning on July 24 against the Tigers for 2 RBI. That brought the Sox back into the game and set up the 8th inning sac fly to tie, which set up his walkoff homer.

He just needs to "be smart" more often by shortening his swing and going the other way. That should come with age and maturity.

I want Crede to remain on this team. He's still young, is an absolute vacuum at third (helps the pitchers), has good power and will improve his average over time. Even if he only tops out at .260 with 30 homers, that's good for a #6 hitter.
That's a great point. Not everybody can hit .320 with 40 homers and 100+ RBIs...it's just not possible to field a lineup like that (notable exception: the soul-less Yankees). Having a smart hitter with a .260 average and some pop goes a long way in a lineup (especially if he's good with his glove). Give Joe Crede time to develop. There aren't many 3B options out there when you think about it.

LauraJ14
08-03-2004, 11:29 AM
Yes we can go away from power hitting. How about smart hitting where players actually get on base? I don't care what the dimensions of the park are. Power hitters = strike outs. I've seen enough of that.

The White Sox rank 7th out of 14 AL teams in strikeouts, 2nd in sacrific hits, 3rd in Homeruns

illiniwhitesox
08-03-2004, 11:40 AM
Yes we can go away from power hitting. How about smart hitting where players actually get on base? I don't care what the dimensions of the park are. Power hitters = strike outs. I've seen enough of that.
I agree, but also want to add, we strongly need to determine what type of battery we want to field.

It makes sense to have power in a park like the Cell. I don't feel the problem is with our power hitters. Any team will take guys like Maggs, Frank, Paulie, Crazy Carl.

The problem lies with what we are surrounding them with. Willie (can't bunt) Harris, Juan (no confidence) Uribe, Jose (great power numbers, but can't hit lefties) Valentin, Joe (great glove, no OBP) Crede.......

You have to have guys who can manufacture runs, hit behind runners, lay down bunts. We do not have these type of players.

Our offense is feast or famine!

JB98
08-03-2004, 12:33 PM
And if we have a "hitters park" these guys are going to give it a ride sometimes. I would much rather have contact hitters.
But we don't strike out that much for a power-hitting team, with the exception of Valentin. All I'm saying is, we've got to have thunder in the middle of the lineup. We play in the American League, in a hitters' park. Some of you people make it sound as if we should trade Konerko for Cesar Izturis and that would solve all our problems. Yeah, we need more table-setters and we need more speed. However, I don't think it's a crime to have four or five hitters who are capable of producing 20+ homers. Cleveland has a young team stacked with power hitters. They are going to score a ton of runs over the next five years or so. We can't go out and acquire a bunch of punch-and-judy hitters and expect to win every game 3-2. It won't work.

Flight #24
08-03-2004, 12:57 PM
The problem lies with what we are surrounding them with. Willie (can't bunt) Harris, Juan (no confidence) Uribe, Jose (great power numbers, but can't hit lefties) Valentin, Joe (great glove, no OBP) Crede.......

Jerry Hairston would be perfect for this team. Hopefully there's a way to bring him "home" in the offseason since the O's appear committed to Brian Roberts.

wdelaney72
08-03-2004, 01:16 PM
The problem lies with what we are surrounding them with. Willie (can't bunt) Harris, Juan (no confidence) Uribe, Jose (great power numbers, but can't hit lefties) Valentin, Joe (great glove, no OBP) Crede.......
Our offense is feast or famine!
The word great should not be used with Jose Valentin unless you're talking about making outs or committing errors. He has decent power numbers which are immediately erased by the number of automatic outs he creates. (2003 .237 average, 2004 looks to be similar).

Our occasional soft ball score games of double digit skew our rankings for AL runs scored.

Feast or famine, absolutey correct.