PDA

View Full Version : Free Agents the Sox can pursue in offseason:


jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 05:43 PM
These players have no options:


SP:
Aaron Sele, rhp; Derek Lowe rhp; Pedro Martinez, rhp; Orlando Hernandez, rhp; Esteban Loaiza, rhp; John Halama, lhp; Steve Sparks, rhp; Russ Ortiz, rhp; Matt Clement, rhp; Glendon Rusch, lhp; Cory Lidle, rhp; Carl Pavano, rhp; Ismael Valdez, rhp; Roger Clemens, rhp; Wilson Alvarez, lhp; Kris Benson, rhp; Kevin Millwood, rhp; Eric Milton, lhp; Matt Morris, rhp; Brad Radke, rhp; David Wells, lhp; Shawn Estes, lhp; Odalis Perez, lhp; Omar Daal, lhp; Scott Erickson, rhp; Kevin Appier, rhp; Darren Oliver, lhp; Chris Carpenter, rhp; Dustin Hermanson, rhp; Sterling Hitchcock, lhp

Bullpen:
Troy Percival, rhp; Curtis Leskanic, rhp; Scott Williamson, rhp; Mike Jackson, rhp; Rick White, rhp; Bob Wickman, rhp; Mike Myers, lhp; Ron Villone, lhp; Jeff Zimmerman, rhp; Antonio Alfonseca, rhp; Kent Mercker, lhp; Todd Van Poppel, rhp; Armando Benitez, rhp; Jeff Fassero, lhp; Billy Koch, rhp; David Weathers, rhp; Jose Lima, rhp; Paul Shuey, rhp; Dave Burba, rhp; Rheal Cormier, lhp; Roberto Hernandez, rhp; Todd Jones, rhp; Robb Nen, rhp; Jose Mesa, rhp; Cal Eldred, rhp; Antonio Osuna, rhp; Terry Adams, rhp; Ramiro Mendoza, rhp; Danny Patterson, rhp; Alan Levine, rhp; Trever Miller, lhp; Terry Mulholland, lhp; Doug Brocail, rhp; Jeff Nelson, rhp; Jay Powell, rhp; Steve Reed, rhp;
Shane Reynolds, rhp; Chad Fox, rhp; John Franco, lhp; Mike DeJean, rhp; Ricky Bottalico, rhp; Dan Miceli, rhp; Felix Rodriguez, rhp; Steve Kline, lhp

1B / DH:
David Segui; Tony Clark; Jose Offerman; Brad Fullmer; Carlos Delgado; Greg Colbrunn; Richie Sexson; Julio Franco; Robin Ventura; Todd Zeile; Dave Hansen; Ellis Burks

2B:
Pokey Reese; Eric Young; Roberto Alomar; Carlos Baerga; Todd Walker; Damion Easley; Mike Mordecai; Jeff Kent

3B:
Troy Glaus; Shane Halter; Corey Koskie; Herb Perry; Lenny Harris; Adrian Beltre; Jose Hernandez

SS:
Deivi Cruz; Neifi Perez; Luis Lopez; Orlando Cabrera; Jose Valentin; Desi Relaford; Miguel Cairo; Rey Sanchez; Dave Berg; Chris Gomez; Nomar Garciaparra; Barry Larkin; Rey Ordonez; Royce Clayton; Denny Hocking; Jose Vizcaino; Alex Gonzalez; Tomas Perez; Tony Womack; Rich Aurilia

C:
Jason Varitek; Tim Laker; John Flaherty; Kelly Stinnett; Damian Miller; Dan Wilson; Brook Fordyce; Greg Myers; Gregg Zaun; Eli Marrero; Brent Mayne; Einar Diaz; Todd Hundley; Todd Pratt; Mike Matheny

Outfield / DH:
Marty Cordova; B.J. Surhoff; Magglio Ordonez; Matt Stairs; Ruben Sierra; Jermaine Dye; David Dellucci; Brian Jordan; Frank Catalanotto; Danny Bautista; J.D. Drew; Tom Goodwin; Todd Hollandsworth; John Vander Wal; Mark Sweeney; Wil Cordero; Carlos Beltran; Steve Finley; Gerald Williams; Doug Glanville; Ray Lankford; Darren Bragg

jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 05:46 PM
Lots of SP available, and Maggs and his 14mil can be replaced. Also, lots of guys for UT if Jose is gone, and if PK and/or Lee can be traded for a catcher (Ramon Hernandez?) or SP, Richie Sexson is a nice replacement....

Also, wouldn't mind seeing Desi Relaford here either in a replacement IF/UT role.

AddisonStSox
08-01-2004, 05:47 PM
Now, keep in mind who owns the White Sox. One time he successfully stole Christmas.

skobabe8
08-01-2004, 06:06 PM
What a sig! :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

Welcome aboard!

jabrch
08-01-2004, 06:11 PM
When is Hudson a FA? Does he have a club option for next year?

Actually, if anyone knows (or can give me a good link) when do all the Oakland SPs contracts expire?

MRKARNO
08-01-2004, 06:12 PM
With 4 pitchers locked up until 2006, dont look for the Sox to go that route.

samram
08-01-2004, 06:20 PM
When is Hudson a FA? Does he have a club option for next year?

Actually, if anyone knows (or can give me a good link) when do all the Oakland SPs contracts expire?
It looks like all three are signed through 2005, and Mulder and Zito have options for 2006.

Link (http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_06_29_dugoutdollars_archive.html).

Evman5
08-01-2004, 06:52 PM
These players have no options:


SP:
Aaron Sele, rhp; Derek Lowe rhp; Pedro Martinez, rhp; Orlando Hernandez, rhp; Esteban Loaiza, rhp; John Halama, lhp; Steve Sparks, rhp; Russ Ortiz, rhp; Matt Clement, rhp; Glendon Rusch, lhp; Cory Lidle, rhp; Carl Pavano, rhp; Ismael Valdez, rhp; Roger Clemens, rhp; Wilson Alvarez, lhp; Kris Benson, rhp; Kevin Millwood, rhp; Eric Milton, lhp; Matt Morris, rhp; Brad Radke, rhp; David Wells, lhp; Shawn Estes, lhp; Odalis Perez, lhp; Omar Daal, lhp; Scott Erickson, rhp; Kevin Appier, rhp; Darren Oliver, lhp; Chris Carpenter, rhp; Dustin Hermanson, rhp; Sterling Hitchcock, lhp

Bullpen:
Troy Percival, rhp; Curtis Leskanic, rhp; Scott Williamson, rhp; Mike Jackson, rhp; Rick White, rhp; Bob Wickman, rhp; Mike Myers, lhp; Ron Villone, lhp; Jeff Zimmerman, rhp; Antonio Alfonseca, rhp; Kent Mercker, lhp; Todd Van Poppel, rhp; Armando Benitez, rhp; Jeff Fassero, lhp; Billy Koch, rhp; David Weathers, rhp; Jose Lima, rhp; Paul Shuey, rhp; Dave Burba, rhp; Rheal Cormier, lhp; Roberto Hernandez, rhp; Todd Jones, rhp; Robb Nen, rhp; Jose Mesa, rhp; Cal Eldred, rhp; Antonio Osuna, rhp; Terry Adams, rhp; Ramiro Mendoza, rhp; Danny Patterson, rhp; Alan Levine, rhp; Trever Miller, lhp; Terry Mulholland, lhp; Doug Brocail, rhp; Jeff Nelson, rhp; Jay Powell, rhp; Steve Reed, rhp;
Shane Reynolds, rhp; Chad Fox, rhp; John Franco, lhp; Mike DeJean, rhp; Ricky Bottalico, rhp; Dan Miceli, rhp; Felix Rodriguez, rhp; Steve Kline, lhp

1B / DH:
David Segui; Tony Clark; Jose Offerman; Brad Fullmer; Carlos Delgado; Greg Colbrunn; Richie Sexson; Julio Franco; Robin Ventura; Todd Zeile; Dave Hansen; Ellis Burks

2B:
Pokey Reese; Eric Young; Roberto Alomar; Carlos Baerga; Todd Walker; Damion Easley; Mike Mordecai; Jeff Kent

3B:
Troy Glaus; Shane Halter; Corey Koskie; Herb Perry; Lenny Harris; Adrian Beltre; Jose Hernandez

SS:
Deivi Cruz; Neifi Perez; Luis Lopez; Orlando Cabrera; Jose Valentin; Desi Relaford; Miguel Cairo; Rey Sanchez; Dave Berg; Chris Gomez; Nomar Garciaparra; Barry Larkin; Rey Ordonez; Royce Clayton; Denny Hocking; Jose Vizcaino; Alex Gonzalez; Tomas Perez; Tony Womack; Rich Aurilia

C:
Jason Varitek; Tim Laker; John Flaherty; Kelly Stinnett; Damian Miller; Dan Wilson; Brook Fordyce; Greg Myers; Gregg Zaun; Eli Marrero; Brent Mayne; Einar Diaz; Todd Hundley; Todd Pratt; Mike Matheny

Outfield / DH:
Marty Cordova; B.J. Surhoff; Magglio Ordonez; Matt Stairs; Ruben Sierra; Jermaine Dye; David Dellucci; Brian Jordan; Frank Catalanotto; Danny Bautista; J.D. Drew; Tom Goodwin; Todd Hollandsworth; John Vander Wal; Mark Sweeney; Wil Cordero; Carlos Beltran; Steve Finley; Gerald Williams; Doug Glanville; Ray Lankford; Darren Bragg
Wishlist

People I also consider reasonable additions

1. C- Eli Marrero,
2. 2b- Todd Walker
3. Sp- Pavano
4. RP- Ron Villone

Also isn't Édgar Rentería a Free agent

If he is he is should be number 1 on the priority list with Pavano being 1A!

SEALgep
08-01-2004, 07:06 PM
Wishlist

People I also consider reasonable additions

1. C- Eli Marrero,
2. 2b- Todd Walker
3. Sp- Pavano
4. RP- Ron Villone

Also isn't Édgar Rentería a Free agent

If he is he is should be number 1 on the priority list with Pavano being 1A!Pavano and Renteria would prove to be a real good offseason IMO. Obviously a few other possibilities, but if that were the extent of the big names we were able to grab, I would be pleased.

S.S. Lumber Yard
08-01-2004, 07:30 PM
These players have no options:

Outfield / DH:
Marty Cordova; B.J. Surhoff; Magglio Ordonez; Matt Stairs; Ruben Sierra; Jermaine Dye; David Dellucci; Brian Jordan; Frank Catalanotto; Danny Bautista; J.D. Drew; Tom Goodwin; Todd Hollandsworth; John Vander Wal; Mark Sweeney; Wil Cordero; Carlos Beltran; Steve Finley; Gerald Williams; Doug Glanville; Ray Lankford; Darren BraggIf we could net anyone of the following:

Danny Bautista
Jermaine Dye
Brian Jordan
Frank Catalanotto
J.D. Drew

I would accept it.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 08:02 PM
I don't think this season is done by a long shot, in fact I expect us to be back within a game or 2 (or in first) by the end of the month. But in keeping with the topic, I'd prioritize offseason moves this way (assuming Maggs isn't resigned, which would obviously be priority #0):

#1 - Middle relief (or closer, shifting Shingo to MR). This is KEY to the Twins success - they don't let you score after the 7th (they were 39-0 when leading after 7 going into the Sox series, that hasn't gotten any worse!).

#2 - MIF or C with solid OBP & D. Varitek, Miller, Zaun, Metheny, Marrero, Womack, Reese (for the D) all would be nice fits and not too expensive.

#3 - veteran #4 or 5 SP - This is the area of least need since I think Contreras will be a solid #3 or better and Garland's a very good #4. I think Diaz can fill this role, but if available at a good price, a Rusch/Hitchcock type that can spot start or be a good long man in the pen would be great.

#4 - OF with speed & OBP - Catallonoto, Drew, Finley. This is not necessary, but nice since we'll have Lee, ARow, Everett.



#1,2,4 can all be done relatively cheaply, if we have any decent payroll bump, you can do #3. 1-3 make this team a very strong playoff contender, and hopefully a deadline deal can make us a WS contender.

gobears1987
08-01-2004, 08:20 PM
T
SS:
Royce Clayton; Lets get him!!!


I seriously think that Matt Clement may be a good pickup, put him where he can get Run support (unlike the Flubs)

cbrownson13
08-01-2004, 08:22 PM
Where did you find the free agent list? I was looking all over the place for one the other day and was driving myself crazy.

jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 08:43 PM
Where did you find the free agent list? I was looking all over the place for one the other day and was driving myself crazy.
online.

On another note, I'd like to see the Sox take the money they were offering Maggs and make a play at Beltre in attempt to replace Maggs production, then use Crede as trade bait.

StepsInSC
08-01-2004, 08:47 PM
online.
:rolleyes:

Man Soo Lee
08-01-2004, 09:18 PM
Where did you find the free agent list? I was looking all over the place for one the other day and was driving myself crazy.
Here (http://kmbumb.people.wm.edu/05agency.html) is a decent list.

Based on the wishlists here, you guys must be counting on a significant payroll increase. After roughly $10M in raises for current players and $18M for Garcia, Everett, and Contreras, there isn't much left to play with.

gobears1987
08-01-2004, 09:19 PM
Here (http://kmbumb.people.wm.edu/05agency.html) is a decent list.

Based on the wishlists here, you guys must be counting on a significant payroll increase. After roughly $10M in raises for current players and $18M for Garcia, Everett, and Contreras, there isn't much left to play with. not resigning Maggs would give good money

Man Soo Lee
08-01-2004, 09:24 PM
not resigning Maggs would give good money
Not resigning Maggs covers only half of the $28M in increases I mentioned in the previous post.

gobears1987
08-01-2004, 09:25 PM
will anyone laugh at my previous Royce Clayton comment?

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 09:43 PM
not resigning Maggs would give good money
Ballpark calculations:

Payroll subtractions: Valentin (5mil), Koch (6), ELo (4), Maggs (14) = $29mil
Payroll additions: Garcia (8), Everett (4), Contreras (6), Assorted (10) = $28mil

So $1mil + any payroll bump due to increased attendance.

Which is why I think the primary moves we'll see will be in the 'pen, where you can find some solid, cheap vets, and maybe a vet C. Total of like 5-6mil.

Kuzman
08-01-2004, 09:45 PM
online.
waahahahahaha

SoxFan76
08-01-2004, 09:55 PM
will anyone laugh at my previous Royce Clayton comment?
I think a big rule in comedy is don't ask people to laugh at your jokes. But that's just my opinion.

On that note, a horse walked into the bar. I said "why the long face". HAHAHAHAHAH

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 09:57 PM
will anyone laugh at my previous Royce Clayton comment?Let me get through the stages that comment induces
:whiner:

:angry:

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Ah, here we go....
':rolling:

CWSGuy406
08-01-2004, 10:06 PM
My wishlist includes Pavano, two quality middle relievers, Drew/Catalanatto, Varitek. Obviously can't get all of them, but two of the above would be nice.

gobears1987
08-01-2004, 10:09 PM
Seriously, I say relief, a 3rd baseman and a 2nd baseman are needed

jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 10:12 PM
Not resigning Maggs covers only half of the $28M in increases I mentioned in the previous post.
There's no way Lee, PK, Thomas, and Valentin are all staying. 2 of the 4 are going to be gone, maybe 3.

1B ?
2B Harris
SS Uribe
3B Crede
C Davis
LF ?
CF Rowand
RF Everett 4.5mil
DH Thomas 8mil
12.5mil + low salaries for everyone else.

Buehrle 5.5mil, Contreras 6mil, Garcia 8mil, Garland 2.3mil, Marte 1.5mil, Shingo 2.5mil = 25.8mil in pitching + minimum salaries for everyone else, assuming Politte is gone.

That's 38.3mil + a bunch of people making under 500K. KW is hardly handcuffed.

AddisonStSox
08-02-2004, 12:14 AM
There's no way Lee, PK, Thomas, and Valentin are all staying. 2 of the 4 are going to be gone, maybe 3.

1B ?
2B Harris
SS Uribe
3B Crede
C Davis
LF ?
CF Rowand
RF Everett 4.5mil
DH Thomas 8mil
12.5mil + low salaries for everyone else.

Buehrle 5.5mil, Contreras 6mil, Garcia 8mil, Garland 2.3mil, Marte 1.5mil, Shingo 2.5mil = 25.8mil in pitching + minimum salaries for everyone else, assuming Politte is gone.

That's 38.3mil + a bunch of people making under 500K. KW is hardly handcuffed.
Truth is, if CLee, and Paulie continue to hit the way they are capable of hitting, I wouldn't want Kenny to go after free agents at 1B or LF. Without Maggs, the pressure is definitely on KW...he is going to have to get a Pavano, Renteria, etc. or deal with another depressing spring training.

nitetrain8601
08-02-2004, 12:24 AM
Ballpark calculations:

Payroll subtractions: Valentin (5mil), Koch (6), ELo (4), Maggs (14) = $29mil
Payroll additions: Garcia (8), Everett (4), Contreras (6), Assorted (10) = $28mil

So $1mil + any payroll bump due to increased attendance.

Which is why I think the primary moves we'll see will be in the 'pen, where you can find some solid, cheap vets, and maybe a vet C. Total of like 5-6mil.
What's assorted? I mean you covered most of the add-ons, and I truly don't believe the escalated contracts add up to 10 Mil. Plus you can count on guys like Mike Jackson, Scott Schoenweis and others to be gone. I don't see Timo and Gload on this team, one or the other.

WhiteSoxFan84
08-02-2004, 12:24 AM
My offseason wishlist (how much they should cost per year);

SP - Matt Clement ($9 mill)
RP - Steve Kline ($3 mill), Felix Rodriguez ($3 mill), Curtis Leskanic ($2 mill)
SS - Jose Valentin (re-sign; $6 mill)
OF - Magglio Ordonez (re-sign; $15 mill)

We pretty much only add $18 mill in payroll, subtract Koch's $6 mill we would have lost, it's only $12 mill addition, and our team looks like a World Series contender. Look at this...

Rotation:
1) Buehrle
2) Garcia
3) Clement
4) Contreras
5) Garland

Bullpen:
Marte
Kline
Rodriguez
Leskanic
Politte
Adkins

Closer:
Takastu

Lineup:
1) Rowand - CF
2) Valentin - SS
3) Ordonez - RF
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Thomas - DH
6) Lee - LF
7) Crede - 3B
8) Uribe - 2B
9) Davis - C

Bench:
Everett - OF/DH
Harris - OF/2B
Gload - OF/1B/DH
Alomar, Jr. - C

That's my dream 25-man roster (using a realistic White Sox budget).

nitetrain8601
08-02-2004, 12:33 AM
I would like to see, realistically:

SP El Duque
RP Felix Rodriguez
2B Jeff Kent

That's all I would want and yes I realize Kent would be some dough, but I think those are realistic and needed improvements.

jordan23ventura
08-02-2004, 12:37 AM
My offseason wishlist (how much they should cost per year);

SP - Matt Clement ($9 mill)
RP - Steve Kline ($3 mill), Felix Rodriguez ($3 mill), Curtis Leskanic ($2 mill)
SS - Jose Valentin (re-sign; $6 mill)
OF - Magglio Ordonez (re-sign; $15 mill)

We pretty much only add $18 mill in payroll, subtract Koch's $6 mill we would have lost, it's only $12 mill addition, and our team looks like a World Series contender. Look at this...

That's my dream 25-man roster (using a realistic White Sox budget).
That's an insanely expensive team. If you're going by this years budget, you can subtract Koch but you add raises to just about everyone, plus Everett (4.5), Contreras (6) and Garcia (8) salaries, and then all that? There's no way that much money gets put into the bullpen, and if the Sox can sign Clement then they'll basically have to dump either PK or Carlos for prospects and/or cheap young ML talent. Maggs isn't coming back either. Jose is a good player but this team needs to get away from the swing for the fences style of play. Jose, Maggs, CLee and/or PK are gone after this year, mark my word. The Clement thing might not be too far off though, considering how many top-name SP are going to be available. The Yanks/Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels can only sign so many pitchers.

OEO Magglio
08-02-2004, 01:02 AM
Like others have said I still think the sox have a great chance to win this division so I'm not throwing in the towel at all, this is just fun to do. So anyways Pavano used to be the first guy on my wish list, however if Contreras performs like I think he will I think the rotation will be the most solid part of the team going into next year(wouldn't that be nice) and I wouldn't add another starter because I think Diaz can be a very solid number 5. I'd like kenny to mostly pick up relievers to surround Shingo, Marte, and Adkins and maybe Cotts in free agency, maybe a 2nd basemen(although I'm not opposed to letting willie play) maybe a catcher though ben davis might not be a bad option if he can produce descent numbers. I'd let maggs and jose walk. I'd also try to trade Konerko for a middle infielder that could leadoff and run(though that would be hard to find) among others and if you could dump enough of Paulies salary maybe go after a stud 3rd baseman such as beltre. My question is what comes of Cotts and Borch? It seems the outfield is set for next year with Maggs or with out him, does that mean borch goes back to aaa for another year, does he become trade bait? Same as Cotts, I'm still really high on cotts but if he doesn't win a spot in the rotation next year, does he go back to the bullpen?

jeremyb1
08-02-2004, 01:09 AM
Ballpark calculations:

Payroll subtractions: Valentin (5mil), Koch (6), ELo (4), Maggs (14) = $29mil
Payroll additions: Garcia (8), Everett (4), Contreras (6), Assorted (10) = $28mil

So $1mil + any payroll bump due to increased attendance.

Personally, in light of the Contreras signing I've been far too depressed about the situation to analyze our financial situation for next season. But as I'm sure Flight and anyone else who's followed our debates would assure you, he's far more optimistic about future spending than I am. So if he says we have 1 million plus any payroll increases to spend in the market next season, we certainly don't have any more than that. I wouldn't count on adding many high impact players through free agency. What we have is what we'll take into next season for the most part I'd guess.

OEO Magglio
08-02-2004, 01:14 AM
Personally, in light of the Contreras signing I've been far too depressed about the situation to analyze our financial situation for next season. But as I'm sure Flight and anyone else who's followed our debates would assure you, he's far more optimistic about future spending than I am. So if he says we have 1 million plus any payroll increases to spend in the market next season, we certainly don't have any more than that. I wouldn't count on adding many high impact players through free agency. What we have is what we'll take into next season for the most part I'd guess.Jeremy, don't you think if the sox don't get into the playoffs(hopefully we won't have to worry about this) that the offense will be completely made over? I'm sure jose and maggs are gone and I'd be pretty sure that you'd either see PK or Carlos traded.

Man Soo Lee
08-02-2004, 03:49 AM
What's assorted? I mean you covered most of the add-ons, and I truly don't believe the escalated contracts add up to 10 Mil. Plus you can count on guys like Mike Jackson, Scott Schoenweis and others to be gone. I don't see Timo and Gload on this team, one or the other.
Buehrle (2.25 mil raise), Thomas (2 mil), Shingo (1.75 mil if option picked up), Lee (1.5 mil), Marte (1 mil), and Konerko (.75 mil) account for 9.25 million in raises.

Garland and Uribe will also get raises through arbitration. Politte's salary goes up .5 mil if his option is picked up.

Other players that seem likely to leave include Schoeneweis (1.75 mil), Timo (.85 mil), Wunsch (.8 mil), Alomar (.75 mil), and Jackson (.5 mil). That's another 4.65 million gone.

I think the Sox are paying about 3.5 mil to Garcia this year. If that's considered part of the 2004 budget, then there's roughly 8-9 million to spend plus any payroll increase. That's without a starting catcher, with Everett in RF, and with Crede, Uribe, and Harris all in the starting lineup, and Diaz/Cotts/? as the 5th starter.

Flight #24
08-02-2004, 07:48 AM
Personally, in light of the Contreras signing I've been far too depressed about the situation to analyze our financial situation for next season. But as I'm sure Flight and anyone else who's followed our debates would assure you, he's far more optimistic about future spending than I am. So if he says we have 1 million plus any payroll increases to spend in the market next season, we certainly don't have any more than that. I wouldn't count on adding many high impact players through free agency. What we have is what we'll take into next season for the most part I'd guess.
Hey - I'm a regular harbinger of doom compared to some!!!

Seriously - I don't think this team will continue to play as poorly as they did during the losing streak. So I'd guess that we'll either maintain the gains we have to date (i.e. attendance is flat relative to 2003 from here on out), or we increase a bit more (i.e. the team plays better and moves within a game or 2 of first along with good news on Frank/Maggs).

So I'd anticipate a payroll bump of maybe 5mil, which gives you 6mil to spend. That shuld go primarily towards relief pitching and maybe a veteran catcher. FRod ($3mil), Zaun/Santiago (1-2mil), another reliever (1-2mil).

Valentin would probably be the next priority, and unless he picks it up, he'll have to take a paycut.

JDP
08-02-2004, 07:52 AM
There's no way Lee, PK, Thomas, and Valentin are all staying. 2 of the 4 are going to be gone, maybe 3.
Lee and PK are under contract; Thomas and the Sox have either a player option or a team option to work upon; Valentin bleeds gray and black and perhaps will come back at the same, if not less, than his '04 salary of $5.0.

Thus, with both Lee and PK under contract (and assumption of no trades), Thomas' option will be worked out -- that's 3 of those 4 returning. Valentin would be the only viable one of those leaving via FA.

gosox41
08-02-2004, 09:04 AM
Lots of SP available, and Maggs and his 14mil can be replaced. Also, lots of guys for UT if Jose is gone, and if PK and/or Lee can be traded for a catcher (Ramon Hernandez?) or SP, Richie Sexson is a nice replacement....

Also, wouldn't mind seeing Desi Relaford here either in a replacement IF/UT role.
Magglio's $14 mill. and plus a lot mroe has already been replaced. Why don't people get that?


Bob

Win1ForMe
08-02-2004, 09:39 AM
Personally, in light of the Contreras signing I've been far too depressed about the situation to analyze our financial situation for next season. But as I'm sure Flight and anyone else who's followed our debates would assure you, he's far more optimistic about future spending than I am. So if he says we have 1 million plus any payroll increases to spend in the market next season, we certainly don't have any more than that. I wouldn't count on adding many high impact players through free agency. What we have is what we'll take into next season for the most part I'd guess.
Well, you're assuming that all players under contract will remain with the White Sox. I would assume if the Sox don't win this division, Ozzie would want Kenny to start bringing in at least some "small-ball" players to diversify the lineup.

wdelaney72
08-02-2004, 10:36 AM
SS - Jose Valentin (re-sign; $6 mill)


Are you high???

LauraJ14
08-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Well, you're assuming that all players under contract will remain with the White Sox. I would assume if the Sox don't win this division, Ozzie would want Kenny to start bringing in at least some "small-ball" players to diversify the lineup.

You can bring in all the small ball players you want but you still need guys to drive them in and if you're ballpark is a homer heaven don't you want to play to that strength? I sure would. You need a balance of guys to get on base and some power hitters to drive them in.

habibharu
08-02-2004, 12:23 PM
we should go get either penny, pavano, perez and glaus. trade crede for whatever you can get.

Flight #24
08-02-2004, 12:27 PM
we should go get either penny, pavano, perez and glaus. trade crede for whatever you can get.
Did you just make a sizeable donation to the payroll? If not, where is the $$$ coming from for that? That's got to be aminimum of 12-15mil for one of those pitchers + Glaus.

habibharu
08-02-2004, 12:28 PM
Did you just make a sizeable donation to the payroll? If not, where is the $$$ coming from for that? That's got to be aminimum of 12-15mil for one of those pitchers + Glaus. pavano shouldnt command more than 8 per, and glaus is coming of an injury season, so he wont get more than 9.

Flight #24
08-02-2004, 12:33 PM
pavano shouldnt command more than 8 per, and glaus is coming of an injury season, so he wont get more than 9.
Right, so you just added 17mil. With the guys we have under contract, we should be right around 62-63mil (i.e. slightly below this year's payroll). So you're looking at an increase of 16mil, which I don't think is reasonable. With increased attendance, you can factor in a bump, but that's a huge one. An 80mil payroll is feasible for the Sox, but not until they draw 2.5mil+

LASOXFAN
08-02-2004, 12:40 PM
My offseason wishlist (how much they should cost per year);

SP - Matt Clement ($9 mill)
RP - Steve Kline ($3 mill), Felix Rodriguez ($3 mill), Curtis Leskanic ($2 mill)
SS - Jose Valentin (re-sign; $6 mill)
OF - Magglio Ordonez (re-sign; $15 mill)

We pretty much only add $18 mill in payroll, subtract Koch's $6 mill we would have lost, it's only $12 mill addition, and our team looks like a World Series contender. Look at this...

Rotation:
1) Buehrle
2) Garcia
3) Clement
4) Contreras
5) Garland

Bullpen:
Marte
Kline
Rodriguez
Leskanic
Politte
Adkins

Closer:
Takastu

Lineup:
1) Rowand - CF
2) Valentin - SS
3) Ordonez - RF
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Thomas - DH
6) Lee - LF
7) Crede - 3B
8) Uribe - 2B
9) Davis - C

Bench:
Everett - OF/DH
Harris - OF/2B
Gload - OF/1B/DH
Alomar, Jr. - C

That's my dream 25-man roster (using a realistic White Sox budget).
why in the world would you want to keep Valentin?

habibharu
08-02-2004, 12:45 PM
My offseason wishlist (how much they should cost per year);

SP - Matt Clement ($9 mill)
RP - Steve Kline ($3 mill), Felix Rodriguez ($3 mill), Curtis Leskanic ($2 mill)
SS - Jose Valentin (re-sign; $6 mill)
OF - Magglio Ordonez (re-sign; $15 mill)

We pretty much only add $18 mill in payroll, subtract Koch's $6 mill we would have lost, it's only $12 mill addition, and our team looks like a World Series contender. Look at this...

Rotation:
1) Buehrle
2) Garcia
3) Clement
4) Contreras
5) Garland

Bullpen:
Marte
Kline
Rodriguez
Leskanic
Politte
Adkins

Closer:
Takastu

Lineup:
1) Rowand - CF
2) Valentin - SS
3) Ordonez - RF
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Thomas - DH
6) Lee - LF
7) Crede - 3B
8) Uribe - 2B
9) Davis - C

Bench:
Everett - OF/DH
Harris - OF/2B
Gload - OF/1B/DH
Alomar, Jr. - C

That's my dream 25-man roster (using a realistic White Sox budget). No way in hell we should sign clement! he is having a FLUKE season just like loaiza did! he is not this good!

Gimm
08-02-2004, 01:34 PM
Ballpark calculations:

Payroll subtractions: Valentin (5mil), Koch (6), ELo (4), Maggs (14) = $29mil

.You honestly think Sox are not re-signing #22? I think his horrible July pretty much ensures his year-end numbers will not look sexy. He won't command more than 2 Mill year. Renteria will cost 6 times that, over multiple years, and Uribe is a huge question mark - might have to switch poistions anyway if Crede and Harris can't turn things around at 2B/3B.

Then again, you just know a 15 for 30, 5 HR, 10 RBI streak is coming, and Valentin's year-end range numbers will still place him in the upper 50% defensively at his position despite an unspectacular fielding %. And a rare gaffe against the Twins aside, his baserunning is still quality.

He won't settle for 1-2 Mill. But I have a feeling he will be back anyway. :smile:

Flight #24
08-02-2004, 01:40 PM
You honestly think Sox are not re-signing #22? I think his horrible July pretty much ensures his year-end numbers will not look sexy. He won't command more than 2 Mill year. Renteria will cost 6 times that, over multiple years, and Uribe is a huge question mark - might have to switch poistions anyway if Crede and Harris can't turn things around at 2B/3B.

Then again, you just know a 15 for 30, 5 HR, 10 RBI streak is coming, and Valentin's year-end range numbers will still place him in the upper 50% defensively at his position despite an unspectacular fielding %. And a rare gaffe against the Twins aside, his baserunning is still quality.

He won't settle for 1-2 Mill. But I have a feeling he will be back anyway. :smile:
I'd be fine with resigning Val for maybe 3-4mil/yr. In which case he'd show up on both sides of the equation with a subtraction of 5mil and an addition of 4mil.

But I think there are higher priorities than him, and since we've got a bunch of commitments (62mil or so) already, whether he stays will depend on what type of payroll increase we see and how they decide to fill other holes.

wdelaney72
08-02-2004, 04:26 PM
I'd be fine with resigning Val for maybe 3-4mil/yr. In which case he'd show up on both sides of the equation with a subtraction of 5mil and an addition of 4mil.

But I think there are higher priorities than him, and since we've got a bunch of commitments (62mil or so) already, whether he stays will depend on what type of payroll increase we see and how they decide to fill other holes.
I totally disagree. SS is EXACTLY where we need to upgrade. Defense up the middle is huge. Not to mention getting rid of 3 automatic strike outs a game. Remember, Valentin hit a whopping .237 last year. But wiat, that's becuase he was hitting from the right side, too.

jeremyb1
08-02-2004, 05:53 PM
Well, you're assuming that all players under contract will remain with the White Sox. I would assume if the Sox don't win this division, Ozzie would want Kenny to start bringing in at least some "small-ball" players to diversify the lineup.

You're correct. If we can find a team willing to take on salary it might be possible to dump Carlos and/or Paully's salaries in a trade. Personally I definitely would not take on Carlos' if I were a rival GM. Paully's I might consider but with Thomas and Maggs out he's been our MVP this season so I'm not sure I'd relish the opportunity to dump him.

ssidebeatdown
08-02-2004, 06:19 PM
Jose needs to commit to hitting lefties. Whether he wants to hit from the right side or the left he should work on it all offseason instead of taking up ownership in the Mexican League or whatever it is.

Man Soo Lee
08-02-2004, 06:25 PM
Personally I definitely would not take on Carlos' if I were a rival GM. Paully's I might consider but with Thomas and Maggs out he's been our MVP this season so I'm not sure I'd relish the opportunity to dump him.
Why the strong preference for Konerko over Lee? They make about the same money for about the same production. Konerko's slugging is up this year, but even if he hits 40+ homers I wouldn't bet on him doing it again.

Gimm
08-02-2004, 06:38 PM
Jose needs to commit to hitting lefties. Whether he wants to hit from the right side or the left he should work on it all offseason instead of taking up ownership in the Mexican League or whatever it is.
Yeah, no kidding.

Especially earlier in the year, he was hitting the ball hard off of them and it would invariably go foul, sometimes with HR distance. Literally almost every at bat there would be a hard-hit strike and he would always find himself down 1-2/0-2 where the pitcher could wipe him out with a breaking ball out of the zone.

At some point, Manos has to realize that he'll never hit 260 being a dead pull-hitter - especially against LHP.

It's up to him to make this adjustment for the first time in his career. Or retire.

Joosh
08-02-2004, 06:43 PM
I'd also try to trade Konerko for a middle infielder that could leadoff and run(though that would be hard to find)D'angelo Jimenez? ( I hope I spelled that right) I know that would be some big money, but that would give you a solid MIF Defense, throwing in someone else cheap, and someone who can hit leadoff with good speed.

OEO Magglio
08-02-2004, 06:45 PM
D'angelo Jimenez? ( I hope I spelled that right) I know that would be some big money, but that would give you a solid MIF Defense, throwing in someone else cheap, and someone who can hit leadoff with good speed.OMG NO. Jiminez can't run and he's brutal on the bases and defensively, not to mention he's an idiot.

batmanZoSo
08-02-2004, 07:26 PM
These players have no options:


SP:
Aaron Sele, rhp; Derek Lowe rhp; Pedro Martinez, rhp; Orlando Hernandez, rhp; Esteban Loaiza, rhp; John Halama, lhp; Steve Sparks, rhp; Russ Ortiz, rhp; Matt Clement, rhp; Glendon Rusch, lhp; Cory Lidle, rhp; Carl Pavano, rhp; Ismael Valdez, rhp; Roger Clemens, rhp; Wilson Alvarez, lhp; Kris Benson, rhp; Kevin Millwood, rhp; Eric Milton, lhp; Matt Morris, rhp; Brad Radke, rhp; David Wells, lhp; Shawn Estes, lhp; Odalis Perez, lhp; Omar Daal, lhp; Scott Erickson, rhp; Kevin Appier, rhp; Darren Oliver, lhp; Chris Carpenter, rhp; Dustin Hermanson, rhp; Sterling Hitchcock, lhp

Bullpen:
Troy Percival, rhp; Curtis Leskanic, rhp; Scott Williamson, rhp; Mike Jackson, rhp; Rick White, rhp; Bob Wickman, rhp; Mike Myers, lhp; Ron Villone, lhp; Jeff Zimmerman, rhp; Antonio Alfonseca, rhp; Kent Mercker, lhp; Todd Van Poppel, rhp; Armando Benitez, rhp; Jeff Fassero, lhp; Billy Koch, rhp; David Weathers, rhp; Jose Lima, rhp; Paul Shuey, rhp; Dave Burba, rhp; Rheal Cormier, lhp; Roberto Hernandez, rhp; Todd Jones, rhp; Robb Nen, rhp; Jose Mesa, rhp; Cal Eldred, rhp; Antonio Osuna, rhp; Terry Adams, rhp; Ramiro Mendoza, rhp; Danny Patterson, rhp; Alan Levine, rhp; Trever Miller, lhp; Terry Mulholland, lhp; Doug Brocail, rhp; Jeff Nelson, rhp; Jay Powell, rhp; Steve Reed, rhp;
Shane Reynolds, rhp; Chad Fox, rhp; John Franco, lhp; Mike DeJean, rhp; Ricky Bottalico, rhp; Dan Miceli, rhp; Felix Rodriguez, rhp; Steve Kline, lhp

1B / DH:
David Segui; Tony Clark; Jose Offerman; Brad Fullmer; Carlos Delgado; Greg Colbrunn; Richie Sexson; Julio Franco; Robin Ventura; Todd Zeile; Dave Hansen; Ellis Burks

2B:
Pokey Reese; Eric Young; Roberto Alomar; Carlos Baerga; Todd Walker; Damion Easley; Mike Mordecai; Jeff Kent

3B:
Troy Glaus; Shane Halter; Corey Koskie; Herb Perry; Lenny Harris; Adrian Beltre; Jose Hernandez

SS:
Deivi Cruz; Neifi Perez; Luis Lopez; Orlando Cabrera; Jose Valentin; Desi Relaford; Miguel Cairo; Rey Sanchez; Dave Berg; Chris Gomez; Nomar Garciaparra; Barry Larkin; Rey Ordonez; Royce Clayton; Denny Hocking; Jose Vizcaino; Alex Gonzalez; Tomas Perez; Tony Womack; Rich Aurilia

C:
Jason Varitek; Tim Laker; John Flaherty; Kelly Stinnett; Damian Miller; Dan Wilson; Brook Fordyce; Greg Myers; Gregg Zaun; Eli Marrero; Brent Mayne; Einar Diaz; Todd Hundley; Todd Pratt; Mike Matheny

Outfield / DH:
Marty Cordova; B.J. Surhoff; Magglio Ordonez; Matt Stairs; Ruben Sierra; Jermaine Dye; David Dellucci; Brian Jordan; Frank Catalanotto; Danny Bautista; J.D. Drew; Tom Goodwin; Todd Hollandsworth; John Vander Wal; Mark Sweeney; Wil Cordero; Carlos Beltran; Steve Finley; Gerald Williams; Doug Glanville; Ray Lankford; Darren Bragg
I'd love to have Clement or Milton. That also looks like a great middle relief crop and we'd better harvest it. I mean major. I haven't been paying attention to who's really doing well in that category but Jeff Nelson's always a rock and he'll probably be cheap because he's been banged up this year. For a mill he's worth a shot. We ought to get two big name middle relief guys that you know will give you that bridge to Shingo. A trio that will shorten the game to 6 or 7 innings. Marte's our best reliever and he looks like absolute crap right now. You simply cannot win without a great pen and it's very easy to put one together. And cheaper than improving any of the areas of: power, speed, defense, starting pitching. You don't even need a great rotation to win it all if you have a dominant bullpen. That's what we should be doing with an upper middle payroll.

Evman5
08-02-2004, 08:58 PM
Is Beltre a Boras client?

Jamieboy
08-02-2004, 09:22 PM
Ok. Lets be realistic folks. Since Magglio has had a significant injury, there is a good chance he'll be resigned for less than 14mil. However, Kenny may decide that Borchard is playing end of story, so in case of that, we've got 14mil in spending money. Now, as big a fan of Crede that I am, his play, mostly his bat has really killed the Sox these past 2 years, there's a great chance he'll swing his way out of it, but Crede is good trade bait, he's got a lot of upside. My idea from the very day Glaus got injuried was to have the Sox go after him. Because of his injury his price will decrease. Before his injury Glaus was tearing the league up as well. He's a team guy who will draw fans to the seats. There's talk of playing him at 1st, but I say Glaus is only injury prone when he plays on turf, it kills him. Now, I'd like to add Brad Penny, but they say he may get upwards of 8mil in arbitration this year, so I like an innings eater who will be cheap. Hard to say if this will work, but I like David Wells. I don't know why no one seems to like him on the southside, he was having a decent year for the team before his back shelved him. But Wells is almost always guarenteed to throw 200IP. Now, Wells won't command more than 2mil, and at most, Glaus will start at 9mil, with any luck, 7mil. Now spread the rest of the money around the bullpen, and we'll have a team. And somebody please tell me why Wunsch is still in triple - A, I know Neal Cotts needs real IP, but come on.

OEO Magglio
08-02-2004, 09:26 PM
Ok. Lets be realistic folks. Since Magglio has had a significant injury, there is a good chance he'll be resigned for less than 14mil. However, Kenny may decide that Borchard is playing end of story, so in case of that, we've got 14mil in spending money. Now, as big a fan of Crede that I am, his play, mostly his bat has really killed the Sox these past 2 years, there's a great chance he'll swing his way out of it, but Crede is good trade bait, he's got a lot of upside. My idea from the very day Glaus got injuried was to have the Sox go after him. Because of his injury his price will decrease. Before his injury Glaus was tearing the league up as well. He's a team guy who will draw fans to the seats. There's talk of playing him at 1st, but I say Glaus is only injury prone when he plays on turf, it kills him. Now, I'd like to add Brad Penny, but they say he may get upwards of 8mil in arbitration this year, so I like an innings eater who will be cheap. Hard to say if this will work, but I like David Wells. I don't know why no one seems to like him on the southside, he was having a decent year for the team before his back shelved him. But Wells is almost always guarenteed to throw 200IP. Now, Wells won't command more than 2mil, and at most, Glaus will start at 9mil, with any luck, 7mil. Now spread the rest of the money around the bullpen, and we'll have a team. And somebody please tell me why Wunsch is still in triple - A, I know Neal Cotts needs real IP, but come on.No to David Wells, No to Glaus and wunsch is in aaa because he lost his velocity and is basically throwing junk right now.