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View Full Version : KW's best trade ever?


Bisco Stu
08-01-2004, 03:23 PM
Gotta go with Garcia. Without him, we'd have been season-swept in Oaktown and today he defined STOPPER. With our restored O in 05, he wins 20.

skobabe8
08-01-2004, 03:45 PM
I love Freddy, too. But I think the portion of posters who say we traded 2 future HOF'ers to get him would disagree. :smile:

mealfred13
08-01-2004, 03:47 PM
Gotta go with Garcia. Without him, we'd have been season-swept in Oaktown and today he defined STOPPER. With our restored O in 05, he wins 20.
I thought you were going to say Ben Davis.....lol.:)

jabrch
08-01-2004, 03:52 PM
I think the Garcia trade might be the one with the most long term impact on the team. Garcia will be here for a while and looks like a real star. However, we did give up a young starting C and a Mark Kotsay type OF prospect. The best deal he made value-wise was Guerrier for Marte - essentially giving up nothing for a very good reliever. I also think that if things go well, and Everett stays with us for another year, that deal will be a tremendous value. It will enable us to let Magglio go and to utilize money budgeted to him for a front of the rotation starter or a SS upgrade. (Rentiria would look great with us!)

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 03:56 PM
I think the Garcia trade might be the one with the most long term impact on the team. Garcia will be here for a while and looks like a real star. However, we did give up a young starting C and a Mark Kotsay type OF prospect. The best deal he made value-wise was Guerrier for Marte - essentially giving up nothing for a very good reliever. I also think that if things go well, and Everett stays with us for another year, that deal will be a tremendous value. It will enable us to let Magglio go and to utilize money budgeted to him for a front of the rotation starter or a SS upgrade. (Rentiria would look great with us!)
I doubt you'll see either, and would almost guarantee that with Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras here for 2+years, you won't see any front-line starters. IMO, you'll see any available $$$ go to relievers and if available, a C or MIF who can get on base.

Currently, we're at like 2mil available if payroll stays flat.

pudge
08-01-2004, 03:57 PM
I think the Garcia trade might be the one with the most long term impact on the team. Garcia will be here for a while and looks like a real star. However, we did give up a young starting C and a Mark Kotsay type OF prospect. The best deal he made value-wise was Guerrier for Marte - essentially giving up nothing for a very good reliever. I also think that if things go well, and Everett stays with us for another year, that deal will be a tremendous value. It will enable us to let Magglio go and to utilize money budgeted to him for a front of the rotation starter or a SS upgrade. (Rentiria would look great with us!)
I was going to say Marte as well. Much better bang for the buck.

jabrch
08-01-2004, 04:07 PM
I doubt you'll see either, and would almost guarantee that with Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras here for 2+years, you won't see any front-line starters. IMO, you'll see any available $$$ go to relievers and if available, a C or MIF who can get on base.

Currently, we're at like 2mil available if payroll stays flat.

Given the (projected) increased attendence and revenues, I am hoping payroll doesn't stay flat next year.

jeremyb1
08-01-2004, 04:09 PM
Man. Well in the Colon deal we acquired an arguably better pitcher for no talent in comparison and we had him for a full season instead of half a season. I think it's pretty open and shut.

doublem23
08-01-2004, 04:11 PM
Man. Well in the Colon deal we acquired an arguably better pitcher for no talent in comparison and we had him for a full season instead of half a season. I think it's pretty open and shut.
I would say Colon, too. That was a great trade.

JB98
08-01-2004, 04:34 PM
Man. Well in the Colon deal we acquired an arguably better pitcher for no talent in comparison and we had him for a full season instead of half a season. I think it's pretty open and shut.
It's too early to say whether the Colon deal beats the Garcia deal. We got 15 wins and one season out of Colon, and that was it. If Freddy wins 15-20 in each of the next three years, the Garcia trade is better. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Garcia is going to prove to be our ace in the coming years. He has the stuff, the experience and the toughness a pitcher needs to win consistently in the majors. And he IS a better pitcher than Colon. Bartolo got his money, got fat and got satisfied. I'm glad he's outta here.

JRIG
08-01-2004, 05:05 PM
It's too early to say whether the Colon deal beats the Garcia deal. We got 15 wins and one season out of Colon, and that was it. If Freddy wins 15-20 in each of the next three years, the Garcia trade is better. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Garcia is going to prove to be our ace in the coming years. He has the stuff, the experience and the toughness a pitcher needs to win consistently in the majors. And he IS a better pitcher than Colon. Bartolo got his money, got fat and got satisfied. I'm glad he's outta here.But we didn't trade for 3 1/2 seasons of Garcia, we traded for a half-season of Garcia, then extended his contract. It seems with all the talk of how great friends he and Guillen are we could have signed him in the off-season anyway. And even if they weren't friends, the Sox would have had as good a chance as any team to win his services in the offseason.

The only was the Garcia trade should be evaluated is how he pitches the rest of this season.

Bisco Stu
08-01-2004, 05:08 PM
I rate Garcia over Colon because we're keeping Freddy. I should have said "best acquistion" as obviously we didn't give up the talent for Colon that we did for Garcia.

jeremyb1
08-01-2004, 05:19 PM
It's too early to say whether the Colon deal beats the Garcia deal. We got 15 wins and one season out of Colon, and that was it. If Freddy wins 15-20 in each of the next three years, the Garcia trade is better. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Garcia is going to prove to be our ace in the coming years. He has the stuff, the experience and the toughness a pitcher needs to win consistently in the majors. And he IS a better pitcher than Colon. Bartolo got his money, got fat and got satisfied. I'm glad he's outta here.

Well I don't think resigning relates to the deal so much since that's somewhat unpredictable and if you can resign a player you can ussually sign him as a free agent. Furthermore you can argue that if we had resigned Colon it would've been an even worse deal but that just cements the fact that for me the two events (resigning and trading) are quite unrelated to the success of a deal.

cwsox
08-01-2004, 05:24 PM
Gotta go with Garcia. Without him, we'd have been season-swept in Oaktown and today he defined STOPPER. With our restored O in 05, he wins 20.

Oaktown?

Oaktown?

I have lived in Michigan since 1975 and have lived in Detroit and never heard that term. What is the source of the appelation?

Bisco Stu
08-01-2004, 05:26 PM
Oaktown?

Oaktown?

I have lived in Michigan since 1975 and have lived in Detroit and never heard that term. What is the source of the appelation?
That's what the brothers call Oakland

SF residents call it "Jokeland" or "Cokeland"

I was just trying to keep it real

jabrch
08-01-2004, 06:08 PM
but we really didn't have much competition for him. The Yanks worked with us to make sure we beat out Boston. Nobody else was really competing. So while it was a good deal in terms of what we paid for what we got, the Garcia thing was different. LOTS of teams wanted him, including the Yanks. We were the only one able to put together a package that was enough to get him so early when we did. Yeah - we gave up a Mark Kotsay type LF and a talented catcher who has a problem with low stuff, but I think that, over time, people are going to really love watching Freddy pitch here.

JB98
08-01-2004, 06:18 PM
But we didn't trade for 3 1/2 seasons of Garcia, we traded for a half-season of Garcia, then extended his contract. It seems with all the talk of how great friends he and Guillen are we could have signed him in the off-season anyway. And even if they weren't friends, the Sox would have had as good a chance as any team to win his services in the offseason.

The only was the Garcia trade should be evaluated is how he pitches the rest of this season.
Totally disagree with that. If we don't trade for Garcia, he either re-ups with Seattle or goes to the Yankees. When is the last time we won an offseason bidding war for an ace pitcher? Trading for him gave us the inside track to ink him to a long-term deal. Of course, no matter what I say, I'm sure you're going to try to convince me that we gave up too much to get Garcia. And no matter what you say, you will not be able to convince me.

ZachAL
08-01-2004, 08:32 PM
Good trades mentioned here, but you HAVE to go with the David Wells trade. We got Wells, who wasnt great for us, but still did good things here and all we gave up was a guy who hasnt pitched since. We got something for nothing. I dont really remember all of it, but I dont think anything significant was given up and I believe that was done on KW's watch.

jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 09:04 PM
I think it will probably turn out to be the Contreras trade, actually. Loaiza was gone anyway, too much $$ for the risk, and underperforming this year. We get Contreras for 2 years at 6mil a year - and if we could all turn our attention to all the people screaming for Ponson and Colon over the offseason, how much are they making?

OzzieBall2004
08-01-2004, 09:17 PM
I think it will probably turn out to be the Contreras trade, actually. Loaiza was gone anyway, too much $$ for the risk, and underperforming this year. We get Contreras for 2 years at 6mil a year - and if we could all turn our attention to all the people screaming for Ponson and Colon over the offseason, how much are they making?

I couldnt agree with you more. I really feel that while everyone looks at this deal as a draw, Contreras has tremendous upside. I just put up a post talking all about that.

SoxFanSince67
08-01-2004, 09:30 PM
For 2004, Garcia, at this point in time, appears to be a positive move. For 2003, acquiring Alomar, who solidified the defense was a good move.


But, I waiting for KW to do something signiicant and positive in the off-season. It seems you give up too much for those infamous July 31 deadline trades.

Kuzman
08-01-2004, 09:36 PM
you guys got it all wrong. The Best Trade by far was the Todd Ritchie trade