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View Full Version : Is E-Lo trade a White Flag for 2004?


Greg1983
08-01-2004, 02:10 PM
Let's set aside the long-term wisdom of the E-Lo trade for a moment and talk about what it means for 2004.

I can't make up my mind on the significance of the E-Lo trade. What are KW and JR thinking? Are they thinking 2004 is over and they're folding up the tent? Or do they think Contreras makes this team better this year somehow? There were certainly chinks in E-Lo's armor this year, but Contreras?

I look at this team, losing all these one-run ballgames, only 5 out in the division and 4 out for the Wild Card, and I think we're not dead yet. And I look at the schedule, with the Twins playing the Western Division powers next week while we play KC and Cleveland, and I think the standings could look very different in a week and a half.

So what's going through their heads? I don't think this team is necessarily done for the year. Do they? What kind of investment, financially and emotionally, do they think I should make in the remainder of 2004?

doublem23
08-01-2004, 02:11 PM
Yes, we got a bounty of prospects. :rolleyes:

nitetrain8601
08-01-2004, 02:13 PM
It's not a white flag trade. It's just a smart trade. Loaiza was a FA after this year who's looking for at least 8 million. He sucks. Let's face it. He won't throw inside and he continues to work the outside and he doesn't have the "pedro" type command to do that. Every great pitcher works the inside as well, Loaiza seems not to want to be great. Basically Loaiza would cost us the same as Contreras would if you take into account the deal he's looking for, maybe even more. Plus it was no lock he was going to resign.

S.S. Lumber Yard
08-01-2004, 02:18 PM
If you watched Baseball Tonight and read some other articles on the net, the consensus is that Jose Conteras is a dominating pitcher against mediocre teams and will thrive in the below average AL Central.

skobabe8
08-01-2004, 02:20 PM
Plus, they figure Contreras can do a serviceable job THIS YEAR--at least as good as loaiza has done. But he can be alot better the next couple of years. Good deal.

Brian26
08-01-2004, 02:26 PM
It's not a white flag at all. The papers this morning report that KW and his staff think the AL Central may have become used to Loaiza's stuff since they see him so much. Not sure if I completely agree with that, as one could argue that the theory should hold true for ALL of our pitchers. However, I think they're talking about Loaiza's trick pitch- the cutter, which teams know to look for now. Notwithstanding, Loaiza has apparently lost a ton of velocity this year. The obvious problem is that ELo is a free agent at the end of the year. Maybe Jose actually helps us a little more than ELo for the next 2 months since Detroit, KC, and Cleveland haven't seen him that much.

MarqSox
08-01-2004, 02:31 PM
No, it isn't.

Erik The Red
08-01-2004, 02:36 PM
It's not a white flag at all. The papers this morning report that KW and his staff think the AL Central may have become used to Loaiza's stuff since they see him so much. Not sure if I completely agree with that, as one could argue that the theory should hold true for ALL of our pitchers. However, I think they're talking about Loaiza's trick pitch- the cutter, which teams know to look for now. Notwithstanding, Loaiza has apparently lost a ton of velocity this year. The obvious problem is that ELo is a free agent at the end of the year. Maybe Jose actually helps us a little more than ELo for the next 2 months since Detroit, KC, and Cleveland haven't seen him that much. Great post. My sentiments exactly.

Greg1983
08-01-2004, 04:03 PM
Thanks for the posts...I appreciate your insights. I have to confess I hadn't read a lot of details about Contreras. I just knew he was abit of a head-case who had gotten shelled a lot lately. But it sounds like there is some significant upside to this guy.

So I guess KW is thinking this guy really is going to help us win this year. That makes me feel a lot better.

batmanZoSo
08-01-2004, 04:31 PM
Let's set aside the long-term wisdom of the E-Lo trade for a moment and talk about what it means for 2004.

I can't make up my mind on the significance of the E-Lo trade. What are KW and JR thinking? Are they thinking 2004 is over and they're folding up the tent? Or do they think Contreras makes this team better this year somehow? There were certainly chinks in E-Lo's armor this year, but Contreras?

I look at this team, losing all these one-run ballgames, only 5 out in the division and 4 out for the Wild Card, and I think we're not dead yet. And I look at the schedule, with the Twins playing the Western Division powers next week while we play KC and Cleveland, and I think the standings could look very different in a week and a half.

So what's going through their heads? I don't think this team is necessarily done for the year. Do they? What kind of investment, financially and emotionally, do they think I should make in the remainder of 2004?
No it's definitely not a white flag deal, at the time of the Loaiza trade we were only four out. Who gives up when they're four out? ::cough::

It's an even trade. We got a guy with a 5.50 ERA for a guy who's been carrying a similar ERA for the last two months and will probably remain there. The thing is we got a potential ace for a washed up guy. And saved money in the pro-cess.

AddisonStSox
08-01-2004, 05:01 PM
Put your worries aside, in no way can this trade hurt us. Although I dont believe in trading a pitcher because his division has seen him a lot of him, there is something to be said for that. Loaiza's best days are certainly behind him and we must remember that this was a "change in scenary" trade of sorts. With the addition of Contreras we have sured up 4/5s of our rotation for the next couple of years...not a bad move at all.

cwsox
08-01-2004, 05:26 PM
No, it isn't.
very much agreed

Greg1983
08-01-2004, 05:30 PM
pardon me for getting off topic, but cwsox, that picture of the Concert for George DVD you have below your sig is beautiful. I bought that DVD as a birthday present for myself a while back, and I just love it. What a beautiful show.

jamteh
08-01-2004, 08:04 PM
I, for one, like this trade. What I'm curious about is how they got Contreras to waive his no-trade clause that easily. I guess he wasn't as happy to be a Yankee as the media said he was. I think that now that his family's here, he'll be more comfortable here and have a nice little run with the Sox.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 08:28 PM
I, for one, like this trade. What I'm curious about is how they got Contreras to waive his no-trade clause that easily. I guess he wasn't as happy to be a Yankee as the media said he was. I think that now that his family's here, he'll be more comfortable here and have a nice little run with the Sox.
I heard his family's been invited over for dinners @ Ozzie's house....and if he loses concentration on the mound, he goes to bed without supper....:wink:

Irishsox1
08-02-2004, 10:46 AM
Frank and Maggs going down is more of a white flag, and that's just bad luck. Moving Estaban is a smart move given that the Sox got him for nothing. He was a bottomed out pitcher who had his best year with the Sox. He's a one hit wonder and the Sox are cashing in. Great siging, Great pitching then Great trade. Good move by Kenny.