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View Full Version : So much for the preseason blackmail...


Region Sox
08-01-2004, 03:48 AM
"If fans support the team, we will add players"

We have had good crowds in the 30,000 range for a few weeks- since June. They added Garcia which was a big move, but Everett? I was thinking something bigger for all the money I spent so far going to games this year.

OEO Magglio
08-01-2004, 03:52 AM
Man, your a little greedy. The sox added Garcia, Everett, and Contreras while a lot of contenders didn't even make one move.

Bucktown
08-01-2004, 03:59 AM
I think it has become apparent to Kenny (like me) that this team is not fixable. We are not one good player away from the playoffs.

When you look at our problems:


Loss of Frank
Loss of Maggs
Willie Harris underperforming
Juan Uribe coming down from the clouds with a nose bleed
Valentin striking out as many times as he gets on base
No one filling the gap in right
Joe Crede hanging around the Medoza line
The bullpen unable to throw a strike
Not even Yankee money can fix this.

Region Sox
08-01-2004, 03:59 AM
What did Contreras ever do besides have an ERA near 6? What has Everett done? For God's sake he has no knees! he can't even play the field. Garcia was a good move in theory- but he has by no means been an all-star. I was happier with a good young catcher.

OEO Magglio
08-01-2004, 04:05 AM
What did Contreras ever do besides have an ERA near 6? What has Everett done? For God's sake he has no knees! he can't even play the field. Garcia was a good move in theory- but he has by no means been an all-star. I was happier with a good young catcher.No team can afford to make 3 blockbuster trades, talent wise. In Garcia kenny got the sox an ace pitcher for the top of the rotation, everett was picked up to fill in for frank thomas, not replace frank but just to continue to have some production from the dh spot. Contreras has ace stuff, will he pitch up to his stuff....who knows but imo it's a very good risk to take and if they indeed found a flaw in his motion where he was tipping his pitches and they can fix that, then kenny flat out stole a very talented starter from the evil empire.

Region Sox
08-01-2004, 04:05 AM
but maybe this is the best- if we win with the assembled turds- great. If not we didn't throw away any other prospects. I would like to restock our farm system.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 08:13 AM
It takes 2 to tango. And in some cases 3. The Southtown reports that the Sox were hot after one or 2 guys who refused towaive no-trades. Elsewhere it's been reported that we had Delgado and he refused to waive. That means that management WAS willing to add salary, but couldn't find a willing partner. This is the Sox fault because......?

They added salary this year. They've committed to at least the same salary next year (based on the various players under contract), and may even increase payroll next year. Seems to me that they've done exactly what they said they'd do. Not the Sox fault that they got hit hard by injury or that guys wouldn't waive no-trades.

gosox41
08-01-2004, 08:56 AM
"If fans support the team, we will add players"

We have had good crowds in the 30,000 range for a few weeks- since June. They added Garcia which was a big move, but Everett? I was thinking something bigger for all the money I spent so far going to games this year.

Youv'e got to be kiddind me, right??


Bob

samram
08-01-2004, 09:24 AM
I think it has become apparent to Kenny (like me) that this team is not fixable. We are not one good player away from the playoffs.

When you look at our problems:

Loss of Frank
Loss of Maggs
Willie Harris underperforming
Juan Uribe coming down from the clouds with a nose bleed
Valentin striking out as many times as he gets on base
No one filling the gap in right
Joe Crede hanging around the Medoza line
The bullpen unable to throw a strike
Not even Yankee money can fix this.
Agreed, the Sox are not one player (who is available) away from the postseason. Any move made should be for a player under contract for next year.

As for the Yankees, if they think ELo is going to go out there in game 3 of a postseason series and do well against the Angels, Rangers, A's, Twins, or hopefully the Sox, they're crazy. They better pray the Kevin Brown is healthy by then.

idseer
08-01-2004, 10:21 AM
I think it has become apparent to Kenny (like me) that this team is not fixable. We are not one good player away from the playoffs.

When you look at our problems:

Loss of Frank
Loss of Maggs
Willie Harris underperforming
Juan Uribe coming down from the clouds with a nose bleed
Valentin striking out as many times as he gets on base
No one filling the gap in right
Joe Crede hanging around the Medoza line
The bullpen unable to throw a strike
Not even Yankee money can fix this.
you forgot ... no catcher either.

Evman5
08-01-2004, 11:09 AM
What did Contreras ever do besides have an ERA near 6? What has Everett done? For God's sake he has no knees! he can't even play the field. Garcia was a good move in theory- but he has by no means been an all-star. I was happier with a good young catcher.
Garcia has pitched exactly like an ace. He has given us a chance to win every single game. It is very important for us to start building around our pitching staff.

Brian26
08-01-2004, 11:20 AM
"If fans support the team, we will add players"

We have had good crowds in the 30,000 range for a few weeks- since June. They added Garcia which was a big move, but Everett? I was thinking something bigger for all the money I spent so far going to games this year.We wouldn't have had to get anyone else if Mags and Frank didn't unexpectedly get hurt. That changes the whole dynamic of the situation. When we got Garcia, recall, Frank was still in the lineup and Mags was a week or two away from coming back. Where would a Delgado or Walker even have played? There wasn't room in the lineup for anyone huge.

Now, we find out both guys might be hurt for the rest of the season a whole two weeks before the deadline - our options are somewhat limited in what we can do. Other teams know we have our back against the wall.

oldcomiskey
08-01-2004, 11:33 AM
for all you Everett haters out there--which to me makes about as much sense as hating Valentin--but thats abother thread altogether---who else could we have gotten that cheap that is as good as carl? this aint MLB2005 where you can stockpile your bench----and I will take Garcia over Olivo and Contreres over Loaiza anyday. Miguel had a good arm but cant block balls in the dirt. E-LO was good last year but he was too timid to throw inside----just like Schoenweiss--who I wouldnt mind seeing moved either

bluestar
08-01-2004, 11:51 AM
It takes 2 to tango. And in some cases 3. The Southtown reports that the Sox were hot after one or 2 guys who refused towaive no-trades. Elsewhere it's been reported that we had Delgado and he refused to waive. That means that management WAS willing to add salary, but couldn't find a willing partner. This is the Sox fault because......?

They added salary this year. They've committed to at least the same salary next year (based on the various players under contract), and may even increase payroll next year. Seems to me that they've done exactly what they said they'd do. Not the Sox fault that they got hit hard by injury or that guys wouldn't waive no-trades.
I think this is right on the money. By many different accounts Williams was hounding every GM in the league looking to make deals. The deals just weren't there for any number of reasons. Perhaps you can fault the Sox for trading away so much of the farm system over the last couple of years, but I don't think there were deals available that were going to benefit the team that greatly right at the deadline this year.

jabrch
08-01-2004, 11:55 AM
but maybe this is the best- if we win with the assembled turds- great.
That's pathetic.

MarqSox
08-01-2004, 12:06 PM
"If fans support the team, we will add players"

We have had good crowds in the 30,000 range for a few weeks- since June. They added Garcia which was a big move, but Everett? I was thinking something bigger for all the money I spent so far going to games this year.There were no bats available for acquisition (not even Nomar) who could have replaced Magglio OR Frank, let alone both ...

I'm not saying th Sox should cash in the season or think they can't overcome 5 games, but it's gonna be real hard without those two guys, and we've aleady mortgaged a lot of our future on a season that went tumbling down the mountain real quick. At this point, KW was wise to basically stand pat, hope for the best but realize that this year is probably not gonna be the one. :(:

Lip Man 1
08-01-2004, 01:51 PM
I think Williams knows the chances of winning went right down the tubes with the 'strained calf muscle' and 'bone spurs' to Maggs and Frank.
He's not going to deplete what talent he has left on a very long shot.

I think he is hoping the club stays compeditive, picks up another thirty wins so that they can at least claim a winning record, and go back to the drawing board in the off season.

Personally I think you are going to see big changes in personnel. I think ozzie based on his comments, is sick of what he sees and is going to demand major changes.

You could see Konerko or Lee or both traded for example, especially is Maggs re-signs an incentive laden one year deal and Frank decides to come back.

Lip

poorme
08-01-2004, 01:58 PM
Let's see what the final attendance is this year and what the payroll is next year.

soxtalker
08-01-2004, 02:10 PM
I think Williams knows the chances of winning went right down the tubes with the 'strained calf muscle' and 'bone spurs' to Maggs and Frank.
He's not going to deplete what talent he has left on a very long shot.

I think he is hoping the club stays compeditive, picks up another thirty wins so that they can at least claim a winning record, and go back to the drawing board in the off season.

Personally I think you are going to see big changes in personnel. I think ozzie based on his comments, is sick of what he sees and is going to demand major changes.

You could see Konerko or Lee or both traded for example, especially is Maggs re-signs an incentive laden one year deal and Frank decides to come back.

Lip
I think you're correct in your analysis. Although there have been plenty of calls for white-flagging it right now, it's a bit too early for KW to do so. But the trade served to set up next year's team as much as this, so he seems to be keeping his eye on the future. If the Sox rebound, that's great. If they fall further back in the next month, KW can always try to pull off some waiver deals. Although they are fixtures here, I could see him trading Valentin or Konerko in such a situation, for example.

voodoochile
08-01-2004, 02:15 PM
but maybe this is the best- if we win with the assembled turds- great. If not we didn't throw away any other prospects. I would like to restock our farm system.
Why? You a fan of minor league baseball? :wink:

Screw the White Flag idea. The Sox are returning most of a team next year that was in first place with Maggs and Frank.

skobabe8
08-01-2004, 02:58 PM
Anyone who talks about cashing it in when you're down 5 games on August 1st is a fool.

jordan23ventura
08-01-2004, 05:23 PM
I think Williams knows the chances of winning went right down the tubes with the 'strained calf muscle' and 'bone spurs' to Maggs and Frank.
He's not going to deplete what talent he has left on a very long shot.

I think he is hoping the club stays compeditive, picks up another thirty wins so that they can at least claim a winning record, and go back to the drawing board in the off season.

Personally I think you are going to see big changes in personnel. I think ozzie based on his comments, is sick of what he sees and is going to demand major changes.

You could see Konerko or Lee or both traded for example, especially is Maggs re-signs an incentive laden one year deal and Frank decides to come back.

Lip
I agree with everything you said, except for the part about Maggs. Everett isn't going anywhere and neither is Thomas. Maggs is gone and I pray we keep Konerko, as it is looking like he finally turned the corner and became the player he was supposed to be. I love Carlos Lee, but he could be the guy that gets us Barry Zito (or someone near that level). Carlos is much easier to replace (for less money) than Paulie.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 05:30 PM
I agree with everything you said, except for the part about Maggs. Everett isn't going anywhere and neither is Thomas. Maggs is gone and I pray we keep Konerko, as it is looking like he finally turned the corner and became the player he was supposed to be. I love Carlos Lee, but he could be the guy that gets us Barry Zito (or someone near that level). Carlos is much easier to replace (for less money) than Paulie.
If one of our big names gets traded, I'd be very susprised if it was for a starter. With Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland here for a few years, I doubt we'll see a bigtime starter acquired - not unless Jose flops from here on out.

My guess is they'll be looking for relievers, and either a C or an MIF guy who can get on base.