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View Full Version : *Official* post mortem thread: Sox lose again, July 31


S.S. Lumber Yard
07-31-2004, 08:33 PM
Why the hell wasn't Shingo in the game when urbina was?!!

Cowch44
07-31-2004, 08:34 PM
Why the hell wasn't Shingo in the game when urbina was?!!
They were hoping Politte could do a good job.

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:35 PM
Call me a troll, chicken little, or whatever you want. But there is no g**damn way in hell we are going to finish above .500, let alone win the division titile.

Blow this g**damn monstrosity up now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soxzilla
07-31-2004, 08:35 PM
You save shingo till the sox score. It's not ozzie's fault our relief crew can't buy an out.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:35 PM
The white sox right now are the worst team in professional baseball. They cant hit, cant field, cant pitch(at least the bullpen cant), cant manage. They cant do anything right and they will be in 4th place by the end of this season. What an embarrassment

cbrownson13
07-31-2004, 08:36 PM
Are they allowed to throw strikes? Come on, put the ball over the plate, if he hits it, he hits it. That is THE worst way to lose a game.

Erik The Red
07-31-2004, 08:36 PM
In other news, Minnesota leads Boston 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th.

ndgt10
07-31-2004, 08:37 PM
I am officially with you on this one. This season is over unless you are interested in the Sox bid to finish in 4th place..

Frankfan4life
07-31-2004, 08:37 PM
Contreras won't be able to save this team unless he can hit.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:37 PM
The twins could have everyone get hurt. The indians could get kidnapped and held hostage to till the end of the year. The tigers might play some major league talent and not the white sox. Hell if KC does well against charlotte, i mean the white sox, we are looking at a last place finish. This is as bad as i ever remember any white sox team. Contreas cant hit by any chance can he? He could probably hit cleanup for us right now. This team is in more trouble than the titanic was.

kittle42
07-31-2004, 08:37 PM
The white sox right now are the worst team in professional baseball. They cant hit, cant field, cant pitch(at least the bullpen cant), cant manage. They cant do anything right and they will be in 4th place by the end of this season. What an embarrassment
Agreed. They should have traded more than Loaiza - and this is no longer a "sky is falling" thing...how long should we be blind to how bad this team is as currently composed. Maybe the "sky was falling" a few losses ago. Now, it has fallen.

StepsInSC
07-31-2004, 08:37 PM
Call me a troll, chicken little, or whatever you want. But there is no g**damn way in hell we are going to finish above .500, let alone win the division titile.

Blow this g**damn monstrosity up now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the Twins lose tonight, I will somehow remain optimistic. Should they win...its tough.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 08:38 PM
I would've rather seen a grand slam than that crap by Politte. Throw a damn strike you scrub!

Has any other team in the history of baseball ever gotten so bad so quick?

WhiteSoxFan84
07-31-2004, 08:39 PM
Sweep the 2 remaining series' with the Twins

jordan23ventura
07-31-2004, 08:39 PM
PLEASE tell me Jackson and Politte. PLEASE!! If nobody takes them, grant them their unconditional release. Bring up Baj and Munoz, or anyone for that matter. How many games is this team going to give up?

And another thing - what was Ozzie thinking bring Politte out there anyway? Was anyone honestly thinking, "Yeah this Politte guy, what a STUD he is!?"

A.T. Money
07-31-2004, 08:39 PM
Two nights in a row of walking in the winning run. You gotta love it.

The White Sox suck.

Dan1972
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
Forget winning the division.....tell me how we are going to win another game.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
blame Cliff if you want---persoanlly for my money the goat horns go to Timo for his stron 27 bounce throw to third

BearSox
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
We're just the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked right now.

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
Actually, I would not give up on Politte just let. I thought those last two pitches could have been called strikes; the steakhouse was probably on the dumbass umpire's mind.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
memo to the white sox bullpen other than shingo:


YOU ALL SUCK!!!!


memo to sox hitters:

You all suck so bad you make the bullpen look like a strength!!!!!!

This team is a freaking embarrassment to the south side of chicago

HaroMaster87
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
you cant pitch Shingo everyday...and everybody else out there is HORRIBLE:angry:

kittle42
07-31-2004, 08:40 PM
And another thing - what was Ozzie thinking bring Politte out there anyway? Was anyone honestly thinking, "Yeah this Politte guy, what a STUD he is!?"
Give me a break. Politte is better than some of the rest of what we have out there. Why not pitch him? Hindsight is 20/20 as usual.

Who cares who was pitching anyway? No hitting = no wins.

Malgar 12
07-31-2004, 08:41 PM
but we're only 5 games back! and there's two months left to sleep walk through! We'll be the first sub .500 team to miraculously win the Central Division title! Everybody loses 7 in a row now and and then. If we can fall 5 back in a week, that means we can gain 5 back in a week too!


and oh yeah, stop being so negative.

dickallen15
07-31-2004, 08:41 PM
Ever since the Sox held their team meeting and talked about how much easier their schedule is they have lost another 4 games. Whoever thinks this team can catch Minnesota is crazy. 3 games lost by bases loaded walks in one month is pathetic.

samram
07-31-2004, 08:41 PM
Forget the winning the division.....tell me how we are going to win another game.
We play the Royals this week- we have to win one of those. Right?:(:

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:42 PM
Forget the winning the division.....tell me how we are going to win another game.
Mike Ditka in 1989:
:iron
"I don't think this team is capable of winning another game."

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:42 PM
PLEASE tell me Jackson and Politte. PLEASE!! If nobody takes them, grant them their unconditional release. Bring up Baj and Munoz, or anyone for that matter. How many games is this team going to give up?

And another thing - what was Ozzie thinking bring Politte out there anyway? Was anyone honestly thinking, "Yeah this Politte guy, what a STUD he is!?"
He doesnt have anyone else out there. Shingo cant pitch every night and all the rest of them suck. The only reason he didnt bring in marte is that marte is a professional walk in the winning run guy. The bullpen is just a collection of crap.

michned
07-31-2004, 08:42 PM
The twins could have everyone get hurt. The indians could get kidnapped and held hostage to till the end of the year. The tigers might play some major league talent and not the white sox. Hell if KC does well against charlotte, i mean the white sox, we are looking at a last place finish. This is as bad as i ever remember any white sox team. Contreas cant hit by any chance can he? He could probably hit cleanup for us right now. This team is in more trouble than the titanic was.
It's obvious, by the organization locking up their starting pitchers for the next few years that a complete overhaul of the team in the field is coming next year...good riddance. The real beginning of Ozzie Ball starts next February.

Malgar 12
07-31-2004, 08:42 PM
We're just the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked right now.
How many more do the Sox have to lose before you scratch the "right now"?

WhiteSoxFan84
07-31-2004, 08:43 PM
I was asking myself, "Why is Ozzie letting Politte pitch to Guillen (batting lefty) instead of bringing in a lefty?". Than I remembered that our two lefties each have their own issues; 1) Damaso Marte walked in the winning run with the bases loaded last nite. 2) Neal Cotts' control is his biggest weakness, don't want to take a chance with the bases loaded and a youngster on the mound with the sellout crowd going crazy.

Than I wondered WWHKD; What Would Have Kelly Done? I think he would've done a much better job than Politte, Marte, and Cotts. But ah well, that's just a fan's opinion.

Quick question, could this quite possibly be the dumbest team in baseball right now?

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:43 PM
We play the Royals this week- we have to win one of those. Right?:(:
Don't worry, we'll find a way to lose all of them too.

jordan23ventura
07-31-2004, 08:43 PM
I know there are still a lot of games left, but it's really starting to look hopeless. Just drop the dead weight and do something. And I'm not talking about Timo and Gload, either. They are bench players and good in that role. Put Willie out there and see if he can do something. Play Borchard every day. Something. Throw Shoe in the bullpen and bring up Diaz. Fiind the holes in this team now so at least they won't be so glaring next year. And most of all, I want to see Ozzie show some life in the dugout. I wanna see screaming and bats flying and etc etc.

kittle42
07-31-2004, 08:44 PM
Worst....lineup....ever.


Don't worry, though...when Frank and Maggs come back in mid-September, we may have about 14 games left and *that's* when we make up the 12+ game deficit we'll have!

ndgt10
07-31-2004, 08:44 PM
Twins Win....

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:44 PM
looks like we will have at least one last night in first place before the tribe overtakes us. And I give it another week before detroit gets us.

kittle42
07-31-2004, 08:45 PM
Than I wondered WWHKD; What Would Have Kelly Done? I think he would've done a much better job than Politte, Marte, and Cotts. But ah well, that's just a fan's opinion.

Quick question, could this quite possibly be the dumbest team in baseball right now?Kelly Wunsch is not the answer to anything.

And as to your second question, yes - and the most hopeless and downtrodden.

Ozzieball - it looks a lot like........

:jerry
"What's changed? Nothing!"

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:46 PM
I was asking myself, "Why is Ozzie letting Politte pitch to Guillen (batting lefty) instead of bringing in a lefty?". Than I remembered that our two lefties each have their own issues; 1) Damaso Marte walked in the winning run with the bases loaded last nite. 2) Neal Cotts' control is his biggest weakness, don't want to take a chance with the bases loaded and a youngster on the mound with the sellout crowd going crazy.

Than I wondered WWHKD; What Would Have Kelly Done? I think he would've done a much better job than Politte, Marte, and Cotts. But ah well, that's just a fan's opinion.

Quick question, could this quite possibly be the dumbest team in baseball right now?
It may be the dumbest team in baseball with the bosox and dodgers close in second. But those teams have a shot to go to the postseason. The white sox have no chance in hell. How are the bears looking. Bring on football!

chisoxfan79
07-31-2004, 08:46 PM
It's football season, see you guys during Hot Stove Baseball time. I am calling it a year.:supernana: :supernana: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :supernana: :gulp: :gulp:

JoseCanseco6969
07-31-2004, 08:46 PM
I sure hate making a post like this but here is goes
Well the Sox finally have me believing the statement...We suck. plain and simple. 3 games in a row where we had nothing and 4 games in a row gift wrapped. No clutch hitting, stranded runners, no bullpen. I dont think we deserve to even have a shot at winning the division. Waste a awesome outing by Buehrle. Only positives of this game are Buehrle and Rowand. I dont know how I am or how the rest of us are going to be able to stomach the last couple months. Lets hope the big Cuban can thrive with us for the rest of this disgusting season and in 2005. I just cant get myself to believe we will catch the twins with our flat play. We have a great shot at getting swept by KC. I think too many people think the royals will be a walkover. We are the walkover team in that division at this point and its sickening. Anyway, i am going to take some pepto bismol to get rid of this nausea, and drink away the sorrows it is to be a Sox fan on July 31st 2004, while the Northsides celebrate a steal of a trade.

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:46 PM
It's obvious, by the organization locking up their starting pitchers for the next few years that a complete overhaul of the team in the field is coming next year...good riddance. The real beginning of Ozzie Ball starts next February.
I think this overhaul should start right now.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:47 PM
what do you think the crowd will be for the next home game? I say less than 15,000.

HITMEN OF 77
07-31-2004, 08:47 PM
A few borderline pitches that caused us the game. What a play by Konerko in the 10th though, WOW!! Tomorrow WE WILL WIN!!

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
Tomorrow WE WILL WIN!!
The DEA is coming to your house.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
And remain five games back...Could we even take charlotte or birmingham right now?

Frankfan4life
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
This team has become a joke. The Twins and their fans have to be laughing their butts off right now about how easy it's going to be to get 3 division titles in a row.

The fans from every road team we have lost to during this 7-game losing streak, have been cheering like crazy. They want to see the Sox humiliated and the Sox are giving them what they want. Everyone is laughing at us. That's what bothers me the most.

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
I'm can't say what I'm thinking so........:angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner:

BearSox
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
On the bright side, NO MORE JULY LEFT!!!! :bandance: :gulp:

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-31-2004, 08:49 PM
Kelly Wunsch is not the answer to anything.

And as to your second question, yes - and the most hopeless and downtrodden.

Ozzieball - it looks a lot like........

:jerry
"What's changed? Nothing!" At least last year when the Sox choked it was in September so there was football to be watched.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:49 PM
A few borderline pitches that caused us the game. What a play by Konerko in the 10th though, WOW!! Tomorrow WE WILL WIN!!
If we dont win with garcia going against bonderman, then the season is officially over (it is anyways).

S.S. Lumber Yard
07-31-2004, 08:49 PM
The Silver lining in the Twins win is that we are only a few games back of Boston for the Wild Card. But the A's are the current Wild Card holder with the Bo Sox a .5 game behind them. I believe the A's will win the wild card with ease.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:50 PM
what really sucks is that its gonna be another year of watching the bleeping north siders and twinkies in the playoffs

Flight #24
07-31-2004, 08:51 PM
Kelly Wunsch is not the answer to anything.






Not unless he can throw strikes from the AAA DL....Isn't he still on it?

BarbG
07-31-2004, 08:51 PM
This is as bad as i ever remember any white sox team.

No it's not.

IT'S WORSE.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-31-2004, 08:51 PM
The Silver lining in the Twins win is that we are only a few games back of Boston for the Wild Card. But the A's are the current Wild Card holder with the Bo Sox a .5 game behind them. I believe the A's will win the wild card with ease. The White Sox without Maggs or Frank are a joke compared to those two teams. The wild card would be harder for the White Sox to win than the AL central

kittle42
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
what really sucks is that its gonna be another year of watching the bleeping north siders and twinkies in the playoffs
Yup. I foresee yet another September where I am concentrating more on the stupid Cubs and less on the team I love. How pathetic - of me and the Sox.

Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
what really sucks is that its gonna be another year of watching the bleeping north siders and twinkies in the playoffs
What the @#$% did we do to deserve that TWO YEARS IN A ROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Daver
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
Not unless he can throw strikes from the AAA DL....Isn't he still on it?
Wunsch has been off the DL for a week.

He got a save for the Knights the other day.

Sox Mobile
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
THIS IS ALL FRANKS FAULT, FOR NOT HANGING OUT IN THE DUGOUT AND BEING A DECOY, JUST ASK KENNY.

JoseCanseco6969
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
It may be the dumbest team in baseball with the bosox and dodgers close in second. But those teams have a shot to go to the postseason. The white sox have no chance in hell. How are the bears looking. Bring on football!

Well lets see...injuries... Urlacher, Azumah, Brown, Tait, i think i read Booker, gandy maybe who knows....in the pessimistic mood that I am in after these 7 days...Bears 4th place finish

The only thing we can hope for is a Cubs collapse

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:53 PM
hey maybe the tribe will get hot and get the twinkies....although not likely with that bullpen

jordan23ventura
07-31-2004, 08:53 PM
Give me a break. Politte is better than some of the rest of what we have out there. Why not pitch him? Hindsight is 20/20 as usual.

Who cares who was pitching anyway? No hitting = no wins.
Well, I'll agree that he is better than most of the bullpen. But that's not saying anything at all. He has been up and down all year and down more often than not. I wouldn't care as much if he gave up a double. The fact that he couldn't get the plate is the bad part. Any time Shingo is breathing he needs to be out there. This was a game the Sox had to win with the way Buehrle threw out there. Go with the sure thing.

BarbG
07-31-2004, 08:54 PM
Only positives of this game are Buehrle and Rowand.

And Carlos Lee.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:54 PM
Well lets see...injuries... Urlacher, Azumah, Brown, Tait, i think i read Booker, gandy maybe who knows....in the pessimistic mood that I am in after these 7 days...Bears 4th place finish

The only thing we can hope for is a Cubs collapse
well if the bears suck, take heart, the blackhawks and bulls cant be too much worse than they have been the last five years or so.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 08:55 PM
After this losing streak, I've only got one thing to say...













GO BEARS!!!

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

BearSox
07-31-2004, 08:56 PM
Lets send the core of our team down to Charlotte, mabye we co0uld win a championship there atleast

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:57 PM
Carl everett and freddy garcia are yearning for the great days in montreal and seattle respectively

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 08:58 PM
Lets send the core of our team down to Charlotte, mabye we co0uld win a championship there atleast
Maybe, but i dont think anyone would be an upgrade over charlottes current team. "Batting ninth for your charlotte knights, Joe Crede"

Crowd: BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

JoseCanseco6969
07-31-2004, 08:59 PM
Lets send the core of our team down to Charlotte, mabye we co0uld win a championship there atleast
Nahh, i bet our core would only hurt the Knights chances of winning.

Jjav829
07-31-2004, 09:01 PM
This team is just pathetic right now. It's embarrassing. They've become a laughing stock. That's not an exaggeration. People are laughing at this team. No one takes them seriously anymore. 5 games back. What was that stat about being 5 games back at the trading deadline? Contreras isn't going to save this team. The only way this team has a chance is by adding another hitter and hoping Frank and/or Maggs can come back sometime in late August/early September. This is ridiculous. I'm disgusted.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-31-2004, 09:01 PM
Maybe, but i dont think anyone would be an upgrade over charlottes current team. "Batting ninth for your charlotte knights, Joe Crede"

Crowd: BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! I'm sure they'd cheer for him at first. He had great #s at AAA Charlotte........and then he came up to the big leagues. :(:

Sox Mobile
07-31-2004, 09:02 PM
I've got an idea to sell some tickets.

To the first 10,000 fans through the gate.........a seasons supply of Prosac.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 09:03 PM
Honestly this week has to be one of the worst in white sox regular season history. One week ago we had just had a walk off HR against the tigers and were 10 games over and 1/2 game in front of the twinkies. One week later we have lost 5.5 games in the standings and our going to be in 3rd or 4th place within the week

BearSox
07-31-2004, 09:04 PM
I've got an idea to sell some tickets.

To the first 10,000 fans through the gate.........a seasons supply of Prosac.
Throw in a Loaiza bobble head and I'm there!

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 09:05 PM
This team is just pathetic right now. It's embarrassing. They've become a laughing stock. That's not an exaggeration. People are laughing at this team. No one takes them seriously anymore. 5 games back. What was that stat about being 5 games back at the trading deadline? Contreras isn't going to save this team. The only way this team has a chance is by adding another hitter and hoping Frank and/or Maggs can come back sometime in late August/early September. This is ridiculous. I'm disgusted.I feel the same way. I can't believe this crap has happened so fast, a week ago today the sox were in first place coming off a dramatic win, I thought we'd handle the twins and take it from there. I don't know if I'm more pissed off right now:angry: or just plain sad.:whiner:

StrTrkker
07-31-2004, 09:05 PM
So really...

Is there anyone in the Sox farm system they can bring up and at least take a look at?

I mean...comon already...
Willie Harris is a joke. He cant bat...cant bunt doesnt have his head into the game. Joe Borchard may turn out to be a good player but for now we just cant keep waiting to see for him to do something. Ross Gload...Im not at all impress by. Mike Jackson...UGH !!!

I still hold off hope for Crede & Valentin but time is short and this long slide is starting to turn into a long streak of non-wins.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 09:07 PM
BBTN making the cubs out to be the 1927 yankees. This has been the worst day ever baseball wise. Contreas for loaiza is a wash that may be a reward next year. Man I wish it was november already.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:08 PM
Someone make me a noose.

Kogs35
07-31-2004, 09:13 PM
can some 1 please tell ozzie willie harris sucks like a gas stations bathroom. i never want to see him in the field agian.:angry: :angry:

Sox Mobile
07-31-2004, 09:14 PM
So really...

Is there anyone in the Sox farm system they can bring up and at least take a look at?

I mean...comon already...
Willie Harris is a joke. He cant bat...cant bunt doesnt have his head into the game. Joe Borchard may turn out to be a good player but for now we just cant keep waiting to see for him to do something. Ross Gload...Im not at all impress by. Mike Jackson...UGH !!!

I still hold off hope for Crede & Valentin but time is short and this long slide is starting to turn into a long streak of non-wins.
Sorry, cant think about tomorrow. Concentrating on being distraught tonight.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:16 PM
The saddest fact of all...

There is now no doubt as to which is the best team in Chicago.

starboy0
07-31-2004, 09:16 PM
I haven't felt this bad since the first game of the season when KC scored 6 runs in the 9th to beat us. That loss was like a punch to the stomach and I feel the same way now.

So my only hope is that tomorrow, like we did after that first game of the season, put it all behind us and start winning some inspired games again.

Maybe August and September will be our best months.

I admit I could be seriously delusional.

Frankfan4life
07-31-2004, 09:19 PM
I'm out of here. I'll just let the Cubs and Twins trolls enjoy this thread.

:dtroll: Party on!

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2004, 09:19 PM
The saddest fact of all...

There is now no doubt as to which is the best team in Chicago.
Sox Fan? Or just a wink and blowing the rest of us a kiss?

:crossdresser

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:21 PM
Sox Fan? Or just a wink and blowing the rest of us a kiss?I'm a die-hard Sox fan but it's the sad truth. No one in baseball would disagree with me. With Frank and Maggs we could be better though. We just got screwed by injuries.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:22 PM
but we're only 5 games back! and there's two months left to sleep walk through! We'll be the first sub .500 team to miraculously win the Central Division title! Everybody loses 7 in a row now and and then. If we can fall 5 back in a week, that means we can gain 5 back in a week too!


and oh yeah, stop being so negative.
This is cyan. This is medium turquoise. This is teal.

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:24 PM
In the midst of the collapse in the 9th... did you all catch the toothless man cheering for the Tigers. As sad as the Sox were that brought a smile to my face... in fact I was hysterically laughing my ass off for 5 minutes. You have to find the humor somewhere...

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:25 PM
This team is just pathetic right now. It's embarrassing. They've become a laughing stock. That's not an exaggeration. People are laughing at this team. No one takes them seriously anymore. 5 games back. What was that stat about being 5 games back at the trading deadline? Contreras isn't going to save this team. The only way this team has a chance is by adding another hitter and hoping Frank and/or Maggs can come back sometime in late August/early September. This is ridiculous. I'm disgusted.
I agree. This time last month, I was hoping for a Sox-Cardinals World Series. Now, I'm just hoping that the Sox can win another game. What the hell has happened to this team?

:hurt

(singing) "You can't always get what you want..."

PaleHoseGeorge
07-31-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm a die-hard Sox fan but it's the sad truth. No one in baseball would disagree with me. With Frank and Maggs we could be better though. We just got screwed by injuries.
Hey, they're your team. Feel free to say they suck. Most of us feel the same way. Deep down I'm sure they know they suck, too.

However if you only measure their worth based on how they stack up versus the Flubs, you're not a Sox Fan in my book. You're a Flubs hater, and that's something entirely different.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:26 PM
In the midst of the collapse in the 9th... did you all catch the toothless man cheering for the Tigers. As sad as the Sox were that brought a smile to my face... in fact I was hysterically laughing my ass off for 5 minutes. You have to find the humor somewhere...
I didn't see that, but I did happen to see the toothless Chicago White Sox lose another game.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:28 PM
I hope Ozzie is in the clubhouse yelling at his players. I realize that they're short-handed, but this is pathetic. They look like they aren't even trying out there.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-31-2004, 09:28 PM
In the midst of the collapse in the 9th... did you all catch the toothless man cheering for the Tigers. As sad as the Sox were that brought a smile to my face... in fact I was hysterically laughing my ass off for 5 minutes. You have to find the humor somewhere... It may be funny, but if I were him i'd be doing the same thing. That team won 43 games last year, and now they're making us look like a team that lost over 100 games.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:28 PM
And another thing...

Jerry Reinsdorf, get the hell out!

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:29 PM
I didn't see that, but I did happen to see the toothless Chicago White Sox lose another game.
No, they're not toothless... spineless, they're spineless.

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:30 PM
It may be funny, but if I were him i'd be doing the same thing. That team won 43 games last year, and now they're making us look like a team that lost over 100 games.
I'm not knocking him for cheering...

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:32 PM
No, they're not toothless... spineless, they're spineless.
They're also toothless, because their offense has no "bite" to it anymore. Their teeth are on the disabled list.

:hurt :maggs

*Chomp* *Chomp*

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:32 PM
Another sick feeling...

The Twins traded away Doug Mientkiewicz and did not get Benson and they will still win the division.

Sox Mobile
07-31-2004, 09:33 PM
In the midst of the collapse in the 9th... did you all catch the toothless man cheering for the Tigers. As sad as the Sox were that brought a smile to my face... in fact I was hysterically laughing my ass off for 5 minutes. You have to find the humor somewhere...
I saw him. Somewhere in Detroit tonight, there is a a very happy, very toothless man. At least we gave him something to grin about. :smile:

I hope I look half that happy at the end of this season!

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:33 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf, get the HELL OUT!

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:36 PM
I saw him. Somewhere in Detroit tonight, there is a a very happy, very toothless man. At least we gave him something to grin about. :smile:

I hope I look half that happy at the end of this season!That was the only light-hearted moment in that sad sad game. :tongue: :whiner:

kcsportscaster
07-31-2004, 09:36 PM
Buehrle pitched his ass off and this is what he gets???? That pathetic offense making a 21 game loser look like Steve Carlton, dreadful defense again, especially that error by Valentin that extended that dreadful fifth inning, and most of all, Polite losing the game on his own in the bottom of the tenth by walking in another run!!!! What in the freakin' hell was wrong with having Shingo pitch the tenth????:angry: To make things worse, K-W gives up Loaiza for a washed up Cuban pitcher instead of getting another hitter!!!!:angry: This on the same day that the Flubbies make the so-called deal of the century, at least according to those dorks at the four letter network!!!!:angry: Thank GOD the Indians lost, otherwise DA SOX would be in the third. Will this team ever win another freakin' game????

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:37 PM
The following represents a typical at-bat by Willie Harris:

:weewillie

*Looks at strike one*

:weewillie

*Looks at strike two*

:weewillie

*Swings and misses at a pitch out of the zone*

:hawk

"That was not a good at-bat by Willie."

Sox Mobile
07-31-2004, 09:37 PM
In the midst of the collapse in the 9th... did you all catch the toothless man cheering for the Tigers. As sad as the Sox were that brought a smile to my face... in fact I was hysterically laughing my ass off for 5 minutes. You have to find the humor somewhere...
Too bad Torii didnt leave Chicago looking like that guy. OH, ****, we dont want to rehash THAT again!:o:

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:40 PM
Too bad Torii didnt leave Chicago looking like that guy. OH, ****, we dont want to rehash THAT again!:o:
Oh, it all seems so long ago... To think we were only on a 1 or 2 game losing streak then... :(:

Jurr
07-31-2004, 09:40 PM
I saw the toothless Detroit guy. He actually looks a helluva lot better than some of the people I treat in Memphis. About as attractive as our entire team right now.

WinningUgly!
07-31-2004, 09:41 PM
Another sick feeling...

The Twins traded away Doug Mientkiewicz and did not get Benson and they will still win the division.
No they won't.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 09:42 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf, get the HELL OUT!
yeah...he got Maggs and Frank hurt. If they're healthy, Jerry's got himself a WS contender. By the way, he was the first owner to fork over money to help the disabled kids (Miracle League)have that baseball field. Uncalled for.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:42 PM
You know what is really disturbing about this whole mess? The Sox hitters look so bad right now that a minor league team could probably hold them to two or three runs. What's even more upsetting is the fact that bums like Harris are allowed to start, let alone be a part of the team in the first place.

Let me recap an earlier post in which I digaramed a typical Harris at-bat:

:weewillie

*Strike 1*

:weewillie

*Strike 2*

:weewillie

*Strike 3*

Honestly, why does this man even bother to show up and play? I cannot believe that the Sox are actually paying him to embarrass himself out there. He contributes nothing to the Sox offense. Nothing! Any one of the posters on this board could do the same job that Harris does. I would happily stand in the batter's box and watch each pitch sail by, just so I could experience life as a baseball player. That seems to be what Harris is interested in doing, because he isn't getting any better.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:42 PM
I saw the toothless Detroit guy. He actually looks a helluva lot better than some of the people I treat in Memphis. About as attractive as our entire team right now.That dude would be great for a new White Sox commercial on our offense...

"There's more holes in our lineup than in this guy's mouth."

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:45 PM
:weewillie

"Wait RKMeibalane, I'm actually supposed to swing the bat?"

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:46 PM
That dude would be great for a new White Sox commercial on our offense...

"There's more holes in our lineup than in this guy's mouth."

Get Brooks on the phone, NOW. :roflmao:

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:50 PM
Oh dear lord. On BBTN, they just showed Politte's reaction after walking in the run. He ran off the mound and slammed his fist into the dugout wall. He was pissed. He may need some Prozac and a 30 pack of Old Style just like me.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 09:50 PM
I dont care what most of u say, i have faith still

and i keep faith till its mathmatically impossible, not improbable

Query tho, do we like lead the majors\whats the season record for most walk off walks?

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:51 PM
yeah...he got Maggs and Frank hurt. If they're healthy, Jerry's got himself a WS contender. By the way, he was the first owner to fork over money to help the disabled kids (Miracle League)have that baseball field. Uncalled for.
While I do appluad Reinsdorf's efforts to help the disabled children, he is indirectly responsible for this mess. By not allowing KW to spend money last winter to sign free-agents, JR allowed a team with more than its fair share of holes to enter Spring Training, believing they were good enough to win their division. What JR failed to realize was that a team with that many holes would be in serious trouble if any of their key players got injured.

Maybe if Reinsdorf had actually spent money during the off-season, the Sox might have been good enough to avoid the free-fall they are now dealing with. I'm not saying they would not have missed Frank and Maggs, but maybe they would have been able to avoid losing games the way they have lost the last seven games. The man needs to go. His cheapness has cost this team on several occasions, and this is the last straw.

South Side
07-31-2004, 09:52 PM
Oh dear lord. On BBTN, they just showed Politte's reaction after walking in the run. He ran off the mound and slammed his fist into the dugout wall. He was pissed. He may need some Prozac and a 30 pack of Old Style just like me.
Ah, fabulous... another injury-a broken hand. Wouldn't that be nice?

Jjav829
07-31-2004, 09:53 PM
Ah, fabulous... another injury-a broken hand. Wouldn't that be nice?
He shoulda had Mike Jackson slam his hand into the wall. At least that would have given us some addition by subtraction.

samram
07-31-2004, 09:53 PM
Oh dear lord. On BBTN, they just showed Politte's reaction after walking in the run. He ran off the mound and slammed his fist into the dugout wall. He was pissed. He may need some Prozac and a 30 pack of Old Style just like me.
A dose of talent wouldn't kill him either.

Man, this was the year I really thought something great was gonna happen. Instead the two best players get hurt and the team quits. I wonder whether people will consider this year or 1994 more disappointing if things continue on their present course.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 09:53 PM
While I do appluad Reinsdorf's efforts to help the disabled children, he is indirectly responsible for this mess. By not allowing KW to spend money last winter to sign free-agents, JR allowed a team with more than its fair share of holes to enter Spring Training, believing they were good enough to win their division. What JR failed to realize was that a team with that many holes would be in serious trouble if any of their key players got injured.

Maybe if Reinsdorf had actually spent money during the off-season, the Sox might have been good enough to avoid the free-fall they are now dealing with. I'm not saying they would not have missed Frank and Maggs, but maybe they would have been able to avoid losing games the way they have lost the last seven games. The man needs to go. His cheapness has cost this team on several occasions, and this is the last straw.Agreed. This is what happens when you go cheap and don't resign Tom Gordon. Last time I checked, Gordon is the best setup man in the A.L. Imagine Tom Gordon setting up for Shingo. :whiner:

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 09:56 PM
I have to wonder what goes through the minds of Maggs and Frank as they sit at home and watch this bull**** unfold each game. Obviously, I'm sure they're upset that they're not out there playing, but I have wonder if by now, they're as pissed off as we are at the inability of the rest of the team do anything right.

:weewillie

*Strikes out*

:hurt

(Watching on TV) "Swing the ****ing bat you idiot!"

:manos

*Botches ground ball*

:maggs

"Oh, no..."

samram
07-31-2004, 09:59 PM
Agreed. This is what happens when you go cheap and don't resign Tom Gordon. Last time I checked, Gordon is the best setup man in the A.L. Imagine Tom Gordon setting up for Shingo. :whiner:

Yeah. I actually think today's trade was a bit of a white flag, even though it could possibly help this year. I think it was a signal that next year there will be a new team concept where pitching and defense will be the focus, and Ozzie will start to get his type of team on the field.

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 10:00 PM
This Sox team is a bunch of losers. That's the god's truth. The general group of them needs to be broken up. Losers. That's what they are, loser ballplayers--as opposed to winning ballplayers, i.e. Derek Jeter. Just can't get it done.

"Sox catch a huge break, can't do anything with it."

"Sox had a GOLDEN opportunity but came up short."

"Sox get their first two men on and leave 'em right there."

You need those "gamers." Give me Tim Raines and Joey Cora and Lance Johnson and Ozzie Guillen. I would take those four and replace ANY four on this current team.

It's another chapter in White Sox losing history, that we're in this easy division and our only real foe are the mediocre Twins and we still can't make the playoffs. Then when we finally become really good down the road, the rebuilding Indians or whoever will be dominant, able to just squeak ahead of us every year. It never fails with this franchise.

"Oh, there are 2 months left."

Every year I hear that and every year the Sox don't make a move.

"We still have 6 games against the Twins."

That's more chances for them to distance themselves from us.

This is how it's gonna be, folks. We'll gain a game or two, come within a game of Minnesota, and then go into a huge series where we can take first place...but they'll rise to the occasion and we won't. We'll have ample opportunity to beat them in those games but won't get the clutch hits. They will.

But hey, at least we have an excuse this time. Two excuses, actually.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 10:00 PM
Yeah. I actually think today's trade was a bit of a white flag, even though it could possibly help this year. I think it was a signal that next year there will be a new team concept where pitching and defense will be the focus, and Ozzie will start to get his type of team on the field.Agreed. This move was made more for the future than the present.

owensmouth
07-31-2004, 10:03 PM
Why don't we dump Willie and activate Joey?

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 10:04 PM
Another thinkg about Willie Harris: I remember reading that Frank had taken Willie under his wing in order to help him fit in with the team, both on and off the field. I have to wonder if Frank was also helping Willie with his hitting. Rowand has said several times that Frank has been good about working with the younger players.

Think about it. Earlier in the season, when Frank was around, Willie was playing good baseball. He was getting hits and making things happen. Since Frank has been injured and away from the team, Willie has dropped off the face of the earth.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 10:04 PM
It was a change of scenery trade. Both pitchers have sucked this year, especially recently

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 10:05 PM
Why don't we dump Willie and activate Joey?
Thinking about something PHG said two years ago, I don't expect Harris to be dumped until next season, at the earliest.

:weewillie = :hitless

Jurr
07-31-2004, 10:05 PM
last time i checked, almost every team in every sport has holes. You hope and pray that your top dogs don't get hurt. Like I said before, are the Cards a great team without Pujols and Rolen? Are the Yankees winning tons of games with ARod and Sheffield out? Are the Red Sox good without Ortiz and Ramirez? No. I don't care if you've got great pitching. Most teams lose players to injuries during a season. It happens. But, you've always got that other guy hanging around to help out. Case in point, Wood and Prior. One went down, but the other guy was there. Losing TWO guys of Maggs and Frank's caliber at the same time for a long time is going to cripple most teams, I don't care how good they are. Now, does that take away from the fact that right now that Jose can't catch a ball in foul territory to put an inning away or that Marte and Politte can't throw a strike? No, but that is the kind of crap that happens when a team has no confidence and is finding a way to lose. Sports are all about confidence, and the Sox don't feel like they have a good enough team without the losses of two huge players.

So, like I said, you can't fault the owner. And, to solidify that point, today the Sox made a play at Carlos f***ing Delgado!!!!!!!! They weren't sitting on their thumbs! It just didn't happen. The guy wouldn't waive his no trade clause. So, JR isn't to blame for this one. I don't like the guy myself, but it seems like he is not the bad guy in this one.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2004, 10:08 PM
Give me Tim Raines and Joey Cora and Lance Johnson and Ozzie Guillen.
This is a sad, sad, post. Cora, Johnson, and Guillen were basically Harris, Perez, and Uribe -- awful offensive players.

You must not have been old enough to follow those teams.

samram
07-31-2004, 10:10 PM
last time i checked, almost every team in every sport has holes. You hope and pray that your top dogs don't get hurt. Like I said before, are the Cards a great team without Pujols and Rolen? Are the Yankees winning tons of games with ARod and Sheffield out? Are the Red Sox good without Ortiz and Ramirez? No. I don't care if you've got great pitching. Most teams lose players to injuries during a season. It happens. But, you've always got that other guy hanging around to help out. Case in point, Wood and Prior. One went down, but the other guy was there. Losing TWO guys of Maggs and Frank's caliber at the same time for a long time is going to cripple most teams, I don't care how good they are. Now, does that take away from the fact that right now that Jose can't catch a ball in foul territory to put an inning away or that Marte and Politte can't throw a strike? No, but that is the kind of crap that happens when a team has no confidence and is finding a way to lose. Sports are all about confidence, and the Sox don't feel like they have a good enough team without the losses of two huge players.

So, like I said, you can't fault the owner. And, to solidify that point, today the Sox made a play at Carlos f***ing Delgado!!!!!!!! They weren't sitting on their thumbs! It just didn't happen. The guy wouldn't waive his no trade clause. So, JR isn't to blame for this one. I don't like the guy myself, but it seems like he is not the bad guy in this one.
The thing is, every one of the Sox holes has shown up this week. Besides the lack of depth exposed by the loss of Frank and Maggs, we have seen Jose's defense cost games, PK's speed cost the team runs, Willie's inability to be on base consistently, CLee's tendency to get pull happy, Crede's popup tendencies, Uribe's overswinging, the catcher's badness, Politte and Marte's wildness, and Jackson's suckiness. The only guy playing well is Rowand. The good thing is they can't all play poorly at the same time for two straight months, can they? Hopefully not.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 10:10 PM
Johnson was the triple leader for a couple of years...I don't remember a Sox player hitting a damn gapper in the last two weeks. Oh wait...Carlos did tonight.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 10:11 PM
The thing is, every one of the Sox holes has shown up this week. Besides the lack of depth exposed by the loss of Frank and Maggs, we have seen Jose's defense cost games, PK's speed cost the team runs, Willie's inability to be on base consistently, CLee's tendency to get pull happy, Crede's popup tendencies, Uribe's overswinging, the catcher's badness, Politte and Marte's wildness, and Jackson's suckiness. The only guy playing well is Rowand. The good thing is they can't all play poorly at the same time for two straight months, can they? Hopefully not.
When your team is really down, it can easily happen. Ask the 'stros.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 10:12 PM
This is a sad, sad, post. Cora, Johnson, and Guillen were basically Harris, Perez, and Uribe -- awful offensive players.

You must not have been old enough to follow those teams.
Agreed. Johnson had speed, but little else. Guillen was good with the glove, but terrible with the bat. He might have been a worse hitter than Harris. I'm not kidding. Cora wasn't strong enough to pull the ball.

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 10:13 PM
Another thinkg about Willie Harris: I remember reading that Frank had taken Willie under his wing in order to help him fit in with the team, both on and off the field. I have to wonder if Frank was also helping Willie with his hitting. Rowand has said several times that Frank has been good about ...working with the younger players.

Think about it. Earlier in the season, when Frank was around, Willie was playing good baseball. He was getting hits and making things happen. Since Frank has been injured and away from the team, Willie has dropped off the face of the earth.
Frank has nothing to do with it. Harris just isn't good. He was playing over his head for a while at the beginning. That happens to every player. Now the real him is coming to the surface. It really bugs me that this is all we can produce in the area of scrappy within-the-system role players--a speed guy who can't steal and can't bunt. The Twins always have some Bobby Kielty or Nick Punto coming up playing smart baseball and getting clutch hits. Why can't we find good ballplayers like this in our system? Maybe in the minors we should focus a little more on smarts rather than just trying to land that big slugging superstar all the time--because we usually swing and miss on those guys..as do they at the plate, cough, Borchard.

samram
07-31-2004, 10:16 PM
When your team is really down, it can easily happen. Ask the 'stros.
But even the Astros have come alive a little bit lately. At some point, the Sox will play well again. Just hope it's this year.:cool:

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 10:16 PM
This is a sad, sad, post. Cora, Johnson, and Guillen were basically Harris, Perez, and Uribe -- awful offensive players.

You must not have been old enough to follow those teams.
Tim Raines is a borderline Hall of Famer. What are you daft? All four of those guys were good ballplayers that helped us win. Most of our current guys are boneheads. I'm shocked at your lack of knowledge. Unbelievable.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 10:18 PM
Frank has nothing to do with it. Harris just isn't good. He was playing over his head for a while at the beginning. That happens to every player. Now the real him is coming to the surface. It really bugs me that this is all we can produce in the area of scrappy within-the-system role players--a speed guy who can't steal and can't bunt. The Twins always have some Bobby Kielty or Nick Punto coming up playing smart baseball and getting clutch hits. Why can't we find good ballplayers like this in our system? Maybe in the minors we should focus a little more on smarts rather than just trying to land that big slugging superstar all the time--because we usually swing and miss on those guys..as do they at the plate, cough, Borchard. I have some real concerns about the Sox farm system. Since the late 1980's, the Sox have managed to have two prospects pan out: Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura. Magglio Ordonez doesn't count because he has been better than expected, and Carlos Lee was an undrafted free-agent. Thomas and Ventura are the only prospects in recent memory to deliver as advertisted.

Crede has been on-and-off. Borchard is horrible. Cotts sucks. Dan Wright blew out his arm. Garland is a woman trapped in a man's body. Need I go on?

The Sox have got to find a way to get players who just know how to play good baseball. Trying to draft the most athletic players or the best hitters isn't working. Other teams are able to bring guys off their benches who are better than some of the Sox starters. Some of this is due to JR's cheaness. The rest of the blame lies with the farm system, IMHO.

Bisco Stu
07-31-2004, 10:22 PM
I SHOULDN'T BE IN THE MAJORS!

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img7542200.jpg

South Side
07-31-2004, 10:23 PM
I have to wonder what goes through the minds of Maggs and Frank as they sit at home and watch this bull**** unfold each game. Obviously, I'm sure they're upset that they're not out there playing, but I have wonder if by now, they're as pissed off as we are at the inability of the rest of the team do anything right.

:weewillie

*Strikes out*

:hurt

(Watching on TV) "Swing the ****ing bat you idiot!"

:manos

*Botches ground ball*

:maggs

"Oh, no..."
They probably don't watch it. Maggs said it made him to anxious the first time he was out... so he didn't watch.

South Side
07-31-2004, 10:30 PM
I SHOULDN'T BE IN THE MAJORS!

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img7542200.jpg

OH MY GOD!

I'm dieing right now laughing so hard.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 10:32 PM
OH MY GOD!

I'm dieing right now laughing so hard.That truly is the most disturbing picture I have ever seen. It didn't even look that bad on TV. Look at the vein on Politte's temple popping out. Sick.

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 10:34 PM
I have some real concerns about the Sox farm system. Since the late 1980's, the Sox have managed to have two prospects pan out: Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura. Magglio Ordonez doesn't count because he has been better than expected, and Carlos Lee was an undrafted free-agent. Thomas and Ventura are the only prospects in recent memory to deliver as advertisted.

Crede has been on-and-off. Borchard is horrible. Cotts sucks. Dan Wright blew out his arm. Garland is a woman trapped in a man's body. Need I go on?

The Sox have got to find a way to get players who just know how to play good baseball. Trying to draft the most athletic players or the best hitters isn't w...orking. Other teams are able to bring guys off their benches who are better than some of the Sox starters. Some of this is due to JR's cheaness. The rest of the blame lies with the farm system, IMHO.
EXACTLY.

This farm system is a complete and utter joke since Schueler took over. It's gotta be the worst in baseball. I mean wasn't one of our number one picks Mark Johnson? In the name of all that's sacred, WHAT did they see in that guy? It's puzzling how we've been an above .500 team during this era...especially since we've never been a team that would go out and bring in talent to make up for a poor farm system.

All these prospects "have a chance to be something special" or they "got the tools." Borchard ain't got ####. He sucks. Cotts sucks. Crede sucks. You're telling me these are minor league MVPs and standouts? They're all bums that we bring up. Every other playoff contending team seems to be able to bring someone up and get results, except us.

You're right, this team's philosophy seems to be predicated on physical tools, which is in a word, moronic. This isn't football. There are two kinds of sportsmen--athletes and ballplayers. We got athletes, the Twins got ballplayers. They win, we lose.

Tell me how Mike Maroth outduels Mark Buehrle.

This isn't baseball.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2004, 10:38 PM
RK:

As I suggested on another thread Sox players by and large are 'baseball dumb.'

All I can say is wow...

Seven straight losses....

Four consecutive one run losses in the last four games...

11-16 for the month (second consecutive losing month)...

6-11 since the All Star break...

I'd say at least we have the Bears to look forward to, but I know better...

Lip

samram
07-31-2004, 10:38 PM
EXACTLY.

This farm system is a complete and utter joke since Schueler took over. It's gotta be the worst in baseball. I mean wasn't one of our number one picks Mark Johnson? In the name of all that's sacred, WHAT did they see in that guy? It's puzzling how we've been an above .500 team during this era...especially since we've never been a team that would go out and bring in talent to make up for a poor farm system.
The drafting has been awful. Since 1991, it's been guys like Eddie Pearson, Scott Christman, Ruffcorn, Johnson, Clemons, Dellaero, Bobby Seay, Matt Ginter, and Jeff Liefer. Yuck.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 10:39 PM
I have some real concerns about the Sox farm system. Since the late 1980's, the Sox have managed to have two prospects pan out: Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura. Magglio Ordonez doesn't count because he has been better than expected, and Carlos Lee was an undrafted free-agent. Thomas and Ventura are the only prospects in recent memory to deliver as advertisted.

Crede has been on-and-off. Borchard is horrible. Cotts sucks. Dan Wright blew out his arm. Garland is a woman trapped in a man's body. Need I go on?

The Sox have got to find a way to get players who just know how to play good baseball. Trying to draft the most athletic players or the best hitters isn't working. Other teams are able to bring guys off their benches who are better than some of the Sox starters. Some of this is due to JR's cheaness. The rest of the blame lies with the farm system, IMHO.

That is the price you pay for being a 2nd place team the past few seasons. We cant be like the cubs and have several 90 plus losing seasons to stock our minors with. Your basing cotts' results on this being his first season, start to finish. If you recall, before his botched start(which i never wanted him to do anyway) he was cruising with a very trim era. Wright was never considered a golden child and therefore his loss is nothing much, he was just an arm to eat innings and garland has shown signs of greatness, just too inconsistant. Rowand is seeming to play at a good level, given 1-2 more years he could evolve into a all star, same goes for willie(everyone has bad slumps)

People yell at JR for not spendin during free agency then tell me, what big bat did you want to be in this lineup from the last FA period that would presumably "CURE" this corpseball we have now.

HITMEN OF 77
07-31-2004, 10:39 PM
If we dont win with garcia going against bonderman, then the season is officially over (it is anyways).
Bonderman grew up and went to school about 5 miles from my house. He went to a rival HS and I look forward to him getting shelled tomorrow. Once again WE WILL WIN TOMORROW.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 10:41 PM
EXACTLY.

This farm system is a complete and utter joke since Schueler took over. It's gotta be the worst in baseball. I mean wasn't one of our number one picks Mark Johnson? In the name of all that's sacred, WHAT did they see in that guy? It's puzzling how we've been an above .500 team during this era...especially since we've never been a team that would go out and bring in talent to make up for a poor farm system.

All these prospects "have a chance to be something special" or they "got the tools." Borchard ain't got ####. He sucks. Cotts sucks. Crede sucks. You're telling me these are minor league MVPs and standouts? They're all bums that we bring up. Every other playoff contending team seems to be able to bring someone up and get results, except us.

You're right, this team's philosophy seems to be predicated on physical tools, which is in a word, moronic. This isn't football. There are two kinds of sportsmen--athletes and ballplayers. We got athletes, the Twins got ballplayers. They win, we lose.

Tell me how Mike Maroth outduels Mark Buehrle.

This isn't baseball.
Maroth didnt outduel buehrle, they both got the ND, and maroth has been pretty effective past few starts, it happens, pitchers get in that zone.

Our former 1st round pick was ginter as well.

doublem23
07-31-2004, 10:45 PM
I have some real concerns about the Sox farm system. Since the late 1980's, the Sox have managed to have two prospects pan out: Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura. Magglio Ordonez doesn't count because he has been better than expected, and Carlos Lee was an undrafted free-agent. Thomas and Ventura are the only prospects in recent memory to deliver as advertisted.

Crede has been on-and-off. Borchard is horrible. Cotts sucks. Dan Wright blew out his arm. Garland is a woman trapped in a man's body. Need I go on?

The Sox have got to find a way to get players who just know how to play good baseball. Trying to draft the most athletic players or the best hitters isn't working. Other teams are able to bring guys off their benches who are better than some of the Sox starters. Some of this is due to JR's cheaness. The rest of the blame lies with the farm system, IMHO.
How does Carlos Lee not qualify? It's not like they signed him from the Newark Bears or something... He was brought in as a kid, no better or worse than guys who had been groomed in high school or college. All players from Latin America are undrafted free agents... The Sox developed Lee into the player he is... Depends on what that means to you.

Anyways, you're living in a fool's world if you think a team can be competitive and solely rely on its farm system for MLB talent. Look what good teams do, they combine home grown talent with in-brought talent. This isn't the ****ing 1950s any more, the Sox troubles are much more largely due to the fact that they have made some poor MLB-talent decisions the last few years (Navarro, etc.), not because they simply don't develop enough talent in the system.

Oh, and what about Buehrle? When he was brought uphe was a top-10 system prospect. Just because he's a very late round pick doesn't mean that when he was called up he wasn't expected to perform big at the top level. Not all #1 picks are expected to be superstars 2-3 years after they get picked and not all 56th round picks are expected to be nothings. Mike Piazza also went waaaaaaay late in the draft, IIRC, but when he was brought up, he was considered to be a big-time prospect.

The rocks of this team, Thomas, Ordonez, Buehrle, and Lee were all grown and groomed in the minors. That's a very, very good job, IMO. The problem with the Sox is that they haven't been able to plug the holes with outside talent, but don't blame that on the farm system.

losingugly2004
07-31-2004, 10:53 PM
Ouch... seven in a row!

I don't think I could feel any worse if my head were suddenly struck by "showering" concrete from that shrine on the northside.

Please Freddy, stop the bleeding. :o:

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 10:54 PM
Anyways, you're living in a fool's world if you think a team can be competitive and solely rely on its farm system for MLB talent. Look what good teams do, they combine home grown talent with in-brought talent. This isn't the ****ing 1950s any more, the Sox troubles are much more largely due to the fact that they have made some poor MLB-talent decisions the last few years (Navarro, etc.), not because they simply don't develop enough talent in the system.
.

I entirely agree. I mean, just look at that mighty Yankee Farm system and all those farm prospects littering their field right now!

Bisco Stu
07-31-2004, 11:15 PM
We WILL finish ahead of the Tiggers this year, right?

That would be embarassing if we don't, considering they were the worst team in MLB history last year (62 Mets were a first year expansion team).

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 11:21 PM
We WILL finish ahead of the Tiggers this year, right?

That would be embarassing if we don't, considering they were the worst team in MLB history last year (62 Mets were a first year expansion team).
Who cares about last year, it means nothing. Last year they didnt have the possibly al mvp Pudge. And 7 years after they were world series champs. Lots of stuff changes in the span of a year.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:22 PM
Ouch... seven in a row!

I don't think I could feel any worse if my head were suddenly struck by "showering" concrete from that shrine on the northside.

Please Freddy, stop the bleeding. :o:
Welcome aboard and btw, I HATE your user name...:(:

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 11:26 PM
How does Carlos Lee not qualify? It's not like they signed him from the Newark Bears or something... He was brought in as a kid, no better or worse than guys who had been groomed in high school or college. All players from Latin America are undrafted free agents... The Sox developed Lee into the player he is... Depends on what that means to you. But even in Carlos' case, the Sox goofed up. Lee was originally intended to become a third baseman, but it soon became apparent that he had neither the range, nor the arm to play the position. Furthermore, in my post, I also talked about the Sox needing to find "smart" baseball players. Lee isn't one.

Anyways, you're living in a fool's world if you think a team can be competitive and solely rely on its farm system for MLB talent. Look what good teams do, they combine home grown talent with in-brought talent. This isn't the ****ing 1950s any more, the Sox troubles are much more largely due to the fact that they have made some poor MLB-talent decisions the last few years (Navarro, etc.), not because they simply don't develop enough talent in the system. Nowhere in my previous post did I say the Sox should rely soley on their farm system. I said that I was concerned about how they develop players, because they continue to bring guys up who are not cut out to play professional baseball. Joe Borchard is the most recent example. The man was two-sport star at Stanford, and probably has more physical talent than anyone on the Sox roster right now (save for perhaps Frank, Maggs, or Carlos), yet he is undeniably the second-worst player on the team. Given that he is twenty five years old, and that he has had three seasons now to "get it right," I think it's safe to declare him a major bust.

The rocks of this team, Thomas, Ordonez, Buehrle, and Lee were all grown and groomed in the minors. That's a very, very good job, IMO. The problem with the Sox is that they haven't been able to plug the holes with outside talent, but don't blame that on the farm system. Again, I'm not blaming only the farm system for this mess. However, I am discouraged by the sheer number of players who have come through the Sox minor league system and 1.) Stunk up the joint with poor play (Borchard) or 2.) Show a lack of understanding of how baseball is played (Lee, Borchard again, Harris, etc.).

Now, I do agree that JR could undo some of this damage by signing more free-agents, but since he isn't going to do that, then the Sox need to find a way to comphensate, and the farm system is the only other way availible at the moment. They have tried signing players who will work cheap, and we've seen how that's turned out. The only hope for the Sox right now is for Sweeny and Anderson to work out, either so the Sox can trade them for veterans who can play, or so the Sox can begin to rebuild. What they have on their roster right now won't get it done.

BTW, I think we can agree that if nothing else, this disaster proves once and for all how important Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez are to this team. I think we have also learned (as if there was any doubt before) that Thomas is a HOF'er. His absence alone has completely distabliized this lineup. Nobody is getting good pitchers to hit with him gone.

doublem23
07-31-2004, 11:31 PM
But even in Carlos' case, the Sox goofed up. Lee was originally intended to become a third baseman, but it soon became apparent that he had neither the range, nor the arm to play the position. Furthermore, in my post, I also talked about the Sox needing to find "smart" baseball players. Lee isn't one.
How is this a goof? If anything, this is better than them trying to force third base down his throat because that's what he was projected at. I fail to grasp your point.

And what defines a "smart" ballplayer? He hits .299/.363/.517 and is a corner outfielder. His job isn't to steal bases, lay bunts down, or whatever, it's to mash the ball.

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 11:39 PM
How does Carlos Lee not qualify? It's not like they signed him from the Newark Bears or something... He was brought in as a kid, no better or worse than guys who had been groomed in high school or college. All players from Latin America are undrafted free agents... The Sox developed Lee into the player he is... Depends on what that means to you.

Anyways, you're living in a fool's world if you think a team can be competitive and solely rely on its farm system for MLB talent. Look what good teams do, they combine home grown talent with in-brought talent. This isn't the ****ing 1950s any more, the Sox troubles are much more largely due to the fact that they have made some poor MLB-talent decisions the last few years (Navarro, etc.), not because they simply don't develop enough talent in the system.

Oh, and what about Buehrle? When he was brought uphe was a top-10 system prospect. Just because he's a very late round pick doesn't mean that when he was called up he wasn't expected to perform big at the top level. Not all #1 picks are expected to be superstars 2-3 years after they get picked and not all 56th round picks are expected to be nothings. Mike Piazza also went waaaaaaay late in the draft, IIRC, but when he was brought up, he was considered to be a big-time prospect.

The rocks of this team, Thomas, Ordonez, Buehrle, and Lee were all grown and groomed in the minors. That's a very, very good job, IMO. The problem with the Sox is that they haven't been able to plug the holes with outside talent, but don't blame that on the farm system.
It's the draft that needs to be improved big time. Just look at the list the last ten or twelve years. It's true we have groomed a few stars but got them from other teams or off the scrap heap. Buehrle was luck. Not to take anything away from the team to support my argument but he was a Junior College pitcher with really nothing in the area of great stuff working for him even to this day. They struck gold.

We're a team that has to draft well because we don't have a big budget. You can't argue that.

LASOXFAN
07-31-2004, 11:41 PM
Honestly this week has to be one of the worst in white sox regular season history. One week ago we had just had a walk off HR against the tigers and were 10 games over and 1/2 game in front of the twinkies. One week later we have lost 5.5 games in the standings and our going to be in 3rd or 4th place within the week
SO TRUE!

It's hard to even get my head around it. My wife asked me why I don't just start rooting for the Dodgers since I live only 15 minutes away.

Women...

greenpeach
07-31-2004, 11:43 PM
I'm a die-hard Sox fan but it's the sad truth. No one in baseball would disagree with me. With Frank and Maggs we could be better though. We just got screwed by injuries.
If Frank & Maggs are healthy, KW pulls the trigger on a Jason Kendall trade & we win the division by 6 or 7 games. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. This one is going to sting all Winter.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2004, 11:46 PM
It's the draft that needs to be improved big time. Just look at the list the last ten or twelve years. It's true we have groomed a few stars but got them from other teams or off the scrap heap. Buehrle was luck. Not to take anything away from the team to support my argument but he was a Junior College pitcher with really nothing in the area of great stuff working for him even to this day. They struck gold.

We're a team that has to draft well because we don't have a big budget. You can't argue that.
To get good picks, u have to lose big. In the past 12 years our worst losing season was 86 losses in 99. Look at teams who have the budding young stars, they lost bad and were dead last for how many seasons. Look at oakland and florida and how they got their pitching(i equate clement since they drafted clement)

You can only do so much with what you got. The cubs have sucked horribly and got prior and wood out of it. I really dont wanna endure a 100 loss season, do you? Plus prospects arent guarenteed.

doublem23
07-31-2004, 11:46 PM
We're a team that has to draft well because we don't have a big budget. You can't argue that.
Oh, I agree, 110% percent. We drafted poorly under Schueler and that's a real reason why the minor league talent is so absymal right now. Under Williams, I've like the direction the Sox minors have taken.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 11:51 PM
How is this a goof? If anything, this is better than them trying to force third base down his throat because that's what he was projected at. I fail to grasp your point. It works like this: if a team drafts a player at particular position, it stands to reason that they're going to give him every opporuntity to succeed at that position. It also makes sense that they wouldn't draft another player at that position unless it become obvious that the first player wasn't performing as expected.

The New York Mets are a team I think of. You may be aware that they recently called up a young prospect named David Wright. He is considered by many to be the top prospect from their organization, and is looked to as the future of the Mets franchise at third base. Because the Mets are counting on Wright being sucessful, they do not have any other third baseman who figure prominently into their plans at the moment. In fact, Ty Wiggington was considered expendable specifically because Wright is now with the big league club.

Let's suppose that something happens in the near future that leads to Wright being moved to another position. Hypothetically speaking, what if Wrightd is forced to move across the diamond to first because his glove is too suspect? The Mets would then have a problem, because moving Wright would leave them with a gaping hole at third, one that they would have fill most likely by making a trade.

That's the point I was trying to make with Carlos changing positions. When teams make mistakes evaluatiing players, it can set them back. Fortunately, the Sox had Crede in their system as a possible replacement. Other teams haven't been that lucky.

And what defines a "smart" ballplayer? He hits .299/.363/.517 and is a corner outfielder. His job isn't to steal bases, lay bunts down, or whatever, it's to mash the ball. Carlos has shown an alarming tendency to committ serious mistakes during the course of a game, mistakes that are related to lapses in concentration. His numerous base-running blunders come to mind. "Smart" players don't make these kinds of mistakes. Lee isn't the only player the Sox have that's guilty of this. They have several players who look as though they have their heads up their asses, even when things are going well. Both the Angels and Marlins won championships the past two seasons because they had players who understood baseball, players that wouldn't do anything to hurt their team's chances of winning.

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 11:57 PM
Wow, didn't watch one second of today's game, just a lot :gulp: , and I'm as calm as can be. You won't even get one negative post out of me tonight, nope. :cool:

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5960.jpg
"That's just the way I pitch."

doublem23
08-01-2004, 12:01 AM
Let's suppose that something happens in the near future that leads to Wright being moved to another position. Hypothetically speaking, what if Wright injures his throwing arm and is forced to move across the diamond to first. The Mets would then have a problem, because moving Wright would leave them with a gaping hole at third, one that they would have fill most likely by making a trade.
Your really overdramatizing this whole scenario to the ridiculous. It seems like that if David Wright fails at third, the Mets will be doomed and will never find the means to get another third baseman. If the Mets are a properly run organization, they will move Wright to a more suitable position and plug that hole with someone else. And then you make it seem like they just traded Wiggington for Jamie Navarro, not Kris Benson.

Plus, while I've never seen this kid play, I can say that in watching Carlos Lee for the last 4-5 years, I can't fathom how anyone confused him for a third baseman. Maybe I missed the more nimble, agile Carlos Lee, but if he was anything like what he is today, whoever looked at Caballo and though "third base" needs to be kept away from minor leaguers for the rest of his natural life.

Sorry, I don't think good teams build from within. I think good teams lay some foundation with home-grown talent and build around that. You want a better example? Look at the Cubs. Currently, they have a handful of key players that are home-grown; Prior, Wood, and Patterson. Everyone else on that roster was acquired some other way. Ditto the St. Louis Cardinals, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, and just about every other team with a realistic shot at the post-season. You want to see what happens when a team relies eclusively on its farm for MLB talent? Look at the 2003 Tigers.

South Side
08-01-2004, 12:01 AM
Wow, didn't watch one second of today's game, just a lot :gulp: , and I'm as calm as can be. You won't even get one negative post out of me tonight, nope. :cool:

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5960.jpg
"That's just the way I pitch."
Take a look at Politte's picture after he blew the game... Calm, no more. :wink:

South Side
08-01-2004, 12:02 AM
Welcome aboard and btw, I HATE your user name...:(:
He's going to have to change it when we start winning again... We WILL start winning again.

RKMeibalane
08-01-2004, 12:06 AM
Sorry, I don't think good teams build from within. I think good teams lay some foundation with home-grown talent and build around that. You want a better example? Look at the Cubs. Currently, they have a handful of key players that are home-grown; Prior, Wood, and Patterson. Everyone else on that roster was acquired some other way. Ditto the St. Louis Cardinals, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, and just about every other team with a realistic shot at the post-season. You want to see what happens when a team relies eclusively on its farm for MLB talent? Look at the 2003 Tigers.
I think you misunderstood my original point. I never said the Sox should rely soley on their farm system. I did say, however, that I thought a number of the players that have come up through their system haven't lived up to expectations. And because Jerry Reinsdorf is unwilling to spend money to accquire free-agents (as the Cubs, Cardinals, Yankees, etc.), the Sox are left with a bunch of holes to fill, but they have no way of filling them.

Like you said, good teams build using both the farm system and free-agency. The Sox can't solve either equation.

doublem23
08-01-2004, 12:08 AM
I think you misunderstood my original point. I never said the Sox should rely soley on their farm system. I did say, however, that I thought a number of the players that have come up through their system haven't lived up to expectations. And because Jerry Reinsdorf is unwilling to spend money to accquire free-agents (as the Cubs, Cardinals, Yankees, etc.), the Sox are left with a bunch of holes to fill, but they have no way of filling them.

Like you said, good teams build using both the farm system and free-agency. The Sox can't solve either equation.
Well then it seems as if you're blaming Kenny and the organization for scouting being an imperfect science.

RKMeibalane
08-01-2004, 12:11 AM
Well then it seems as if you're blaming Kenny and the organization for scouting being an imperfect science.
I blame scouting for finding players who have no clue what they're doing. I blame Williams for not replacing these incompetent scouts with better ones. And finally, I blame Jerry Reinsdorf for not giving KW a larger budget to work with so that he could afford to pay the better scouts more money. I also blame JR for not allowing KW to sign more free-agents in order to compete with the New Yorks and Bostons of the world.

batmanZoSo
08-01-2004, 12:19 AM
To get good picks, u have to lose big. In the past 12 years our worst losing season was 86 losses in 99. Look at teams who have the budding young stars, they lost bad and were dead last for how many seasons. Look at oakland and florida and how they got their pitching(i equate clement since they drafted clement)

You can only do so much with what you got. The cubs have sucked horribly and got prior and wood out of it. I really dont wanna endure a 100 loss season, do you? Plus prospects arent guarenteed.
What was our draft reward for that horrible 99 "the kids can play" year? Joe Borchard.

I guess we weren't horrible enough. We had to settle for a football player. I don't get that pick, if you're gonna take a football player take a Bo Jackson, not a quarterback. If you go the tools route, get some actual tools.

Looking back on 97-99, we would be better off right now had those teams lost 95 games a year rather than being a few games below .500. Even then I would've been okay with it knowing they had no chance anyway and they might as well get a good draft pick. We're the only team that hasn't had a top 10 pick since 1990. Not having top 10 picks is a formula for mediocrity and what have we been? Mediocre. It's just like the class system in America. The middle class are doomed and everyone else benefits.

losingugly2004
08-01-2004, 10:56 AM
Welcome aboard and btw, I HATE your user name...:(:
I will consider changing my username on any type of White Sox winning streak. However, why is it that whenever the Sox face a borderline pitcher they always make him appear to be a Cy Young candidate?

Don't get me wrong, I bleed black and gray. Go Sox! Let's put one on the board...yes! :D:

voodoochile
08-01-2004, 11:24 AM
I will consider changing my username on any type of White Sox winning streak. However, why is it that whenever the Sox face a borderline pitcher they always make him appear to be a Cy Young candidate?

Don't get me wrong, I bleed black and gray. Go Sox! Let's put one on the board...yes! :D:
NP, and to each there own. I just would never even consider a name like that and wasn't sure if you were a troll at first.

Hope you get to change it sooner rather than later, but also be aware, the only way to do that is by signing up again which loses your post count. You also need to tell me or another mod when you do it. Multiple screen names is a violation of board policy - at least POSTING with multiple screen names is...

But like I said, welcome aboard and of course...

GO SOX!:supernana:

Frankfan4life
08-01-2004, 12:12 PM
This has been bothering me all night so I thought I'd post it here and get it off my chest. I "hated" and "detested" the way Konerko came to the plate on Jose's "sac fly" to right. Yes, it should have been a sac fly! Paulie never came near the plate. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It seemed to me that Paulie was trying to avoid any contact whatsoever with the catcher! It was a tie game and that would have been the winning run!!! I contrast this with the contact Toriible Hunter made with Jamie Burke in the Twinkies series. Toriible went out of his way to make sure that if Jamie caught the ball, he was going to try to knock it out of his glove.

It just makes me wonder if this team gets it. It seems that the more they lose, the more mistakes they make. As a fan, all I can do is sit back and watch this implosion. I'm angry and hurt. However, I'm not giving up yet, I'm still clinging to my last bit of hope.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2004, 12:44 PM
Stockdale:

You bring up an excellent philosophical question. and your point about 'prospects' is dead on. I remember back in the 70's the Sox had very high draft picks and turned out to get guys like Eddie Pearson.

However, one can also ask the question 'how is the Sox mediocre average record of 83-79 for the past six seasons any better then losing 100 games a year or two and getting the chance to get some impact draft picks?'

I'm not saying one is any better then the other just that there are two sides to every question.

Lip

StockdaleForVeep
08-01-2004, 05:38 PM
Stockdale:

You bring up an excellent philosophical question. and your point about 'prospects' is dead on. I remember back in the 70's the Sox had very high draft picks and turned out to get guys like Eddie Pearson.

However, one can also ask the question 'how is the Sox mediocre average record of 83-79 for the past six seasons any better then losing 100 games a year or two and getting the chance to get some impact draft picks?'

I'm not saying one is any better then the other just that there are two sides to every question.

LipIt is hard to stomach a losing season but i hate to use this word, we have been average. Imean. should jr tell ozzie to simply quit this season? Delib tank the rest of the season so we can get better draft picks? You cant blame the team for winning. Even with a high draft pick theres no guarentee they will blossom. The priors and other rarities who come from college to major league play in a year is very rare, so then we're waiting. Im sure we all know the hype and play on bobby hill for the cubs and then when he got called up look what happened. Maybe it is due to a weak division that we get easy wins but its a fact unless your bankrolling like steinbrenner and boston where you can buy what talent you want you need to have bad seasons, horrendous seasons to get respectable picks. Cubs got prior due to a miserable 97 loss season and twins got mauer for 93 losses. Oakland had mediocre seasons and got the best rotation in the league(on paper). Granted this has been tough bein good to be 500 or better but i do prefer that over bein 100+ losses