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JoseCanseco6969
07-31-2004, 06:41 PM
Anyone think Joe Torre (and the Yankees) made Loaiza an allstar with hopes to say, "Yanks trade erratic pitcher for Allstar" ?? Something weird to think about since we all knew at the time Buehrle was the better pitcher.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 06:42 PM
Anyone think Joe Torre (and the Yankees) made Loaiza an allstar with hopes to say, "Yanks trade erratic pitcher for Allstar" ?? Something weird to think about since we all knew at the time Buehrle was the better pitcher.
I'm convinced that's why he did it. It doesn't really matter, though. When Loaiza gets shelled in the post-season, everyone will see that the Sox ripped the Yankees off in this deal.

Paulwny
07-31-2004, 06:48 PM
If Mel Stottlemeyer (sp) somehow straightens out Loaiza and he returns to last yrs form I'm really going to question the ability of the sox coaching staff.

inta
07-31-2004, 06:50 PM
If Mel Stottlemeyer (sp) somehow straightens out Loaiza and he returns to last yrs form I'm really going to question the ability of the sox coaching staff.
agreed.

that's the one thing i'm fearing out of this trade.

Daver
07-31-2004, 06:52 PM
Since when is Mel Stottlmyre a good pitching coach?


And if he is why didn't he correct the flaws in Contreas' mechanics?

Paulwny
07-31-2004, 07:05 PM
Since when is Mel Stottlmyre a good pitching coach?


And if he is why didn't he correct the flaws in Contreas' mechanics?
I guess I'm one who thinks he's a good pitching coach. Of course he always has had a staff that was the envy of baseball up until this year.
As for Contreras, I've seen him pitch a few games and I don't know, I'm very bad at spotting pitching flaws, if it's mechanics or in his head. At times he can be brilliant, but for some reason he's been a big bust against the red sox (more pressure). This guy could be a big steal.

Daver
07-31-2004, 07:26 PM
I guess I'm one who thinks he's a good pitching coach. Of course he always has had a staff that was the envy of baseball up until this year.
As for Contreras, I've seen him pitch a few games and I don't know, I'm very bad at spotting pitching flaws, if it's mechanics or in his head. At times he can be brilliant, but for some reason he's been a big bust against the red sox (more pressure). This guy could be a big steal.
You have a mechanics problem if you change your release point from pitch to pitch, which he does. He also has a tendency to change his arm slot from game to game, another mechanics flaw, and one that can lead to injury and dead arm issues.

Paulwny
08-01-2004, 12:09 PM
You have a mechanics problem if you change your release point from pitch to pitch, which he does. He also has a tendency to change his arm slot from game to game, another mechanics flaw, and one that can lead to injury and dead arm issues.
You maybe correct, but this is his style of pitching, similar to El Duque. They might teach this in Cuba. I'm not sure, but didn't Luis Tiant throw from different arm angles ? I remember Tiant moving his head in different directions when delivering a pitch , but I also think he'd continually change the arm angle.

LuvSox
08-01-2004, 12:15 PM
Anyone think Joe Torre (and the Yankees) made Loaiza an allstar with hopes to say, "Yanks trade erratic pitcher for Allstar" ?? Something weird to think about since we all knew at the time Buehrle was the better pitcher.

Are you going to tell us about crop circles too? :D:

LauraJ14
08-01-2004, 12:18 PM
Someone , not sure maybe Kenny Williams was talking about Loaiza facing more East teams and Contreras facing more Central teams with the trade. Contreras doesn't pitch well against Boston, well we have 6 games left against Boston and Yankees haven't faced the Twins yet.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 12:22 PM
I guess I'm one who thinks he's a good pitching coach. Of course he always has had a staff that was the envy of baseball up until this year.
.Mussina's struggled, Vazquez is inconsistent, they couldnt "fix" Contreras.....Doesnt seem to me like old Mel's shown much as a pitching coach - this year, anyway. I doubt he'll fix ELo, especially since I havent heard much that mechanics are his problem. Seems more to be guys being used to his "new" pitch (the cutter) and him not being able to adjust.

EDIT: even last year, his pre-ASB #s were .221BAA & 2.21ERA. Post-ASB rose to .245BAA and 3.84ERA. This year it's .283BAA & 4.86ERA......I sense a pattern that looks like batters adjusting to his "new" pitch.

HITMEN OF 77
08-01-2004, 12:23 PM
Anyone think Joe Torre (and the Yankees) made Loaiza an allstar with hopes to say, "Yanks trade erratic pitcher for Allstar" ?? Something weird to think about since we all knew at the time Buehrle was the better pitcher.
Buehrle IS the better pitcher and always will be. But I agree with you on Torre making him an All Star, good call on that one.

Paulwny
08-01-2004, 12:42 PM
Mussina's struggled, Vazquez is inconsistent, they couldnt "fix" Contreras.....Doesnt seem to me like old Mel's shown much as a pitching coach - this year, anyway. I doubt he'll fix ELo, especially since I havent heard much that mechanics are his problem. Seems more to be guys being used to his "new" pitch (the cutter) and him not being able to adjust.

EDIT: even last year, his pre-ASB #s were .221BAA & 2.21ERA. Post-ASB rose to .245BAA and 3.84ERA. This year it's .283BAA & 4.86ERA......I sense a pattern that looks like batters adjusting to his "new" pitch.

We don't know yet if Contreras has mechanical problems or can't take the yankmee pressure. As for Mussina, he missed 2 wks of st and as he turned it around injured his elbow. I also doubt he'll fix Elo because he probably has a dead arm. This year his pitches are consistantly 86-89 mph last year he was 92-94 mph , probably not a mechanics problem.
I still think Stottlemeyer (sp) is a good pitching coach who can spot and correct mechanical problems. He can't repair injuries or dead arms.

Paulwny
08-01-2004, 04:16 PM
Anyone think Joe Torre (and the Yankees) made Loaiza an allstar with hopes to say, "Yanks trade erratic pitcher for Allstar" ?? Something weird to think about since we all knew at the time Buehrle was the better pitcher.
It looks like you scooped the AP.
From Newsday/AP:
NEW YORK -- During the All-Star break, Esteban Loaiza got a pretty good idea the New York Yankees were interested in him. He just didn't think they meant this soon.

"(Jason) Giambi was saying 'We want you, we want you,'" Loaiza said. "The way they were talking -- (manager Joe) Torre and the coaching staff -- they wanted me since four years ago, when I was with Texas."

Loaiza was approached by Torre, pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre and several players at the All-Star game in Houston this July.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/wire/sns-ap-bba-yankees-loaiza,0,3326686.story?coll=sns-ap-baseball-headlines

In the article it also says the yankmees will sign Olerud.

mealfred13
08-01-2004, 04:26 PM
It looks like you scooped the AP.
From Newsday/AP:
NEW YORK -- During the All-Star break, Esteban Loaiza got a pretty good idea the New York Yankees were interested in him. He just didn't think they meant this soon.

"(Jason) Giambi was saying 'We want you, we want you,'" Loaiza said. "The way they were talking -- (manager Joe) Torre and the coaching staff -- they wanted me since four years ago, when I was with Texas."

Loaiza was approached by Torre, pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre and several players at the All-Star game in Houston this July.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/wire/sns-ap-bba-yankees-loaiza,0,3326686.story?coll=sns-ap-baseball-headlines

In the article it also says the yankmees will sign Olerud.If they wanted him so bad before last year, why did he have to be a non-roster invitee to the Sox camp just to get onto a major league team when NO ONE wanted him. The Yankees are full of ****. Until last year's performance, they had NO interest in him whatsoever, and they're stupid for thinking he will pitch as well as he did last year for them.

Edit: Also, what kind of underhanded BS is that to try to recruit a player from another team by harrassing him at an all-star game. I hate the yankees more and more each day.

Bisco Stu
08-01-2004, 04:33 PM
Are you going to tell us about crop circles too? :D:
Yeah, all those intricate patterns were done by those 2 drunken limeys.

Jose69etc, I'm Mr. Conspiracy, but even I ain't buying that one.

Torre was rewarding E-Lo for his 03 season/strong All Star start last year and he was still decent enough this year to warrant an appearance in the 04 game.

samram
08-01-2004, 04:39 PM
It looks like you scooped the AP.
From Newsday/AP:
NEW YORK -- During the All-Star break, Esteban Loaiza got a pretty good idea the New York Yankees were interested in him. He just didn't think they meant this soon.

"(Jason) Giambi was saying 'We want you, we want you,'" Loaiza said. "The way they were talking -- (manager Joe) Torre and the coaching staff -- they wanted me since four years ago, when I was with Texas."

Loaiza was approached by Torre, pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre and several players at the All-Star game in Houston this July.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/wire/sns-ap-bba-yankees-loaiza,0,3326686.story?coll=sns-ap-baseball-headlines

In the article it also says the yankmees will sign Olerud.
That's interesting. Some people on WSI mentioned that Torre uses the All-Star selections as a chance to recruit would be free agents, and this seems to back up that claim. If Beltran had been in the AL still, you know the Yankees that were there would have been talking about how great New York and the Yanks organization is. To me, it seems like a sneaky little way of getting around the tampering rules.