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View Full Version : 2005 Sox, at least, very dangerous


Jurr
07-31-2004, 06:36 PM
PK, Lee, Rowand, Crede, Frank, Buehrle, Marte, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, and probably another big time bat to replace Maggs (or Maggs stays)....this was a very good trade, in my mind. We probably weren't going to keep Loaiza, and now we have a guy that could possibly get it together in a lower-spotlight team. We could be very good in the future. This is smart.

HomeFish
07-31-2004, 06:37 PM
Carl has a player option for 2005, doesn't he?

Palehose13
07-31-2004, 06:39 PM
Carl has a player option for 2005, doesn't he?
Yep and I believe a team option for 2006

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 06:39 PM
I thought this team was doomed for the future.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 06:40 PM
Carl has a player option for 2005, doesn't he? Yes, he does. If Magglio is gone, then the lineup will most likely take on this form:

CF- Rowand
2B- Uribe
DH- Thomas
LF- Lee
RF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Davis

jeremyb1
07-31-2004, 06:46 PM
Well I suppose that's better than the team that's on the field now? I'm just not sure how much that says at this point.

inta
07-31-2004, 06:48 PM
man.
waiting till next year sucks.

:angry:

but i am glad our rotation looks better now than it did heading into last years offseason.

oh yeah, and re-sign shingo NOW.

mjmcend
07-31-2004, 06:51 PM
oh yeah, and re-sign shingo NOW.
There is already a team option for next year and you know we are going to pick it up.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 06:51 PM
I don't think our lineup will look like the one we see now. For instance, Maggs leaving would open up enough payroll to sign a good catcher, such as Kendall, and another good bat. Or, we could end up in the running for Carlos Beltran. So, this hitting lineup will keep its core guys while adding another (or two) good players. It's exciting stuff. Waiting til next year does suck, though.

jeremyb1
07-31-2004, 06:57 PM
I don't think our lineup will look like the one we see now. For instance, Maggs leaving would open up enough payroll to sign a good catcher, such as Kendall, and another good bat. Or, we could end up in the running for Carlos Beltran. So, this hitting lineup will keep its core guys while adding another (or two) good players. It's exciting stuff. Waiting til next year does suck, though.

Haha. We have next to no money to spend. We added 9 million for Garcia, 4 million for Contreras, and a lot in raises to Buehrle, Garland, Carlos etc.

batmanZoSo
07-31-2004, 06:58 PM
Yes, he does. If Magglio is gone, then the lineup will most likely take on this form:

CF- Rowand
2B- Uribe
DH- Thomas
LF- Lee
RF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Davis
I like getting Contreras because he's supposed to have great potential, right? Here's hoping he be's all he can be. Loaiza was clearly going downhill big time. Can't give up less than 4 runs per start. Through May he looked great, obviously not the same guy from last year but only a slight dropoff to where 18-10 4.02 looked well within reach. But he's toast in the NY spotlight. I'm glad we got a potential* star pitcher for a guy who's best year is behind him.

We need a catcher. Miguel Olivo where art thou? Oh, yeah...right. Davis absolutely sucks. We need a catcher with a strong arm because obviously our pitchers are too damn good to worry about something so trivial as keeping a runner on. And it wouldn't hurt to have a catcher who isn't an automatic out and is actually worthy of the uniform he's wearing.

Valentin's a fine player but I've had enough of him. He's clutch as hell, fields better than for which he gets credit, but he just isn't consistent at the plate. For the last month, this is a small sample of a typical Valentin box score stretch:

0-4 3k
1-5 3k
0-3 2k, 1r
1-4 HR, 3rbi
0-3 8k
0-4 4k

The big 3 run bomb to win the game is great, but this guy just doesn't wake up until the games on the line. We need rally starters, not just rally cappers. With him striking out all the time, doing nothing at the plate...I mean it just kills us to have guys like that. I'm certainly not blaming him for being 4 games back or whatever the hell we are, but we really can't go into next year with him out there...again. My god do we need some base stealing/bunt/consistent singles hitting ability. A true leadoff guy. KW's got another Uribe up his sleeve. Get a SS or 2b to play everyday along side Uribe, he can play either with mad skill. Find someone, Kenny.

mjmcend
07-31-2004, 07:01 PM
Haha. We have next to no money to spend. We added 9 million for Garcia, 4 million for Contreras, and a lot in raises to Buehrle, Garland, Carlos etc.
6 million for Contreras actually.

But I agree with you. I don't see us signing any big name or even medium name free agents this offseason. The only moves I see could be trades of PK or Carlos or small time signings or trades like the Uribe for Miles or the signing of Shingo. But those sometimes work out for KW and us.

Aidan
07-31-2004, 07:06 PM
Well I suppose that's better than the team that's on the field now? I'm just not sure how much that says at this point.Damn, do you ever say anything not negative?

soxwon
07-31-2004, 07:47 PM
Yes, he does. If Magglio is gone, then the lineup will most likely take on this form:

CF- Rowand
2B- Uribe
DH- Thomas
LF- Lee
RF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Davis
sounds like sox 2004 ecept for thomas
they cant do it now
how do you expect 2005

jeremyb1
07-31-2004, 08:39 PM
Damn, do you ever say anything not negative?

Sure. When I like the moves and the direction of the team. Clearly, I don't right now so forgive me if I find it hard to be optimistic.

Flight #24
07-31-2004, 08:48 PM
Sure. When I like the moves and the direction of the team. Clearly, I don't right now so forgive me if I find it hard to be optimistic.
I think that lineup stacks up against the rest of the Central very well. And the rotation is as good or better than the rest.

As for the $$$, it all depends. If attendance stays flat from here on out, we're pretty much done in terms of FA additions, unless they're very cheap. If we can sustain some of the improvements in attendance and maintain the 10-15% increase over last year, then we should have net $$$ available of $35-39mil, net $$$ added of $18 so 7-10 available.

johnny bench
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
Cleveland is younger and hungrier and only a half game behind us.

And Contreras admits to being 32, but he could be 35.

Daver
07-31-2004, 08:53 PM
I think that lineup stacks up against the rest of the Central very well. And the rotation is as good or better than the rest.

As for the $$$, it all depends. If attendance stays flat from here on out, we're pretty much done in terms of FA additions, unless they're very cheap. If we can sustain some of the improvements in attendance and maintain the 10-15% increase over last year, then we should have net $$$ available of $35-39mil, net $$$ added of $18 so 7-10 available.
Based on what?

Payroll is dependent on the profit margin Jerry Reinsdorf sets, not on what the income of the team is.

joeynach
07-31-2004, 09:29 PM
sounds like sox 2004 ecept for thomas
they cant do it now
how do you expect 2005
Everett is signed through 2005 with an option for 2006. Look for KW to get a new catcher and SS. Valentin and Alomar will be gone as they will be FA's and aren't worth a sack of balls. We will be seeing a very different team possiblyh without crede as well and Borchard will not be starting.

SS - Guzman??
2B - Uribe/Harris
DH - Thomas
RF - Everett
LF - Lee
1B - Konerko
CF - Rowand
3B - Beltre, Crede??
C - Redmond, Kendall,Liberthal,Burke???

Garcia
Buehrle
Contreras
Garland
V Zambrano,Benson...???

StepsInSC
07-31-2004, 09:51 PM
I think that lineup stacks up against the rest of the Central very well. And the rotation is as good or better than the rest.

Ever since the dawn of civilization this Sox lineup has stacked up good against the Central on paper. I'm damn tired of potential.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 10:20 PM
why can't the sox do it now???? they would probably be 5 up if they didn't lose their top two hitters. please.

Flight #24
07-31-2004, 10:24 PM
Based on what?

Payroll is dependent on the profit margin Jerry Reinsdorf sets, not on what the income of the team is.
Historically, there's a strong correlation between attendance increases/decreases and the following year's payroll. Of course, that can change at any time, but if history is an indication of the strategy of ownership, then we should see a payroll increase from this year to next.

Corlose 15
07-31-2004, 10:32 PM
A couple of things.

1. Jose Valentin is clutch but I don't want to see him in a Sox uniform next year
2. Willie Harris sucks.
3. If the Sox lose out on Maggs, I'd like to see them get another quality pitcher. (But who knows w/ Diaz and Cotts in the mix for next year)

Also, whats everyone's opinion on Wilson Valdez? He's hitting .341 at Charlotte with 3E in 40 games. He seems to be mostly a singles hitter. Does anyone think he'll be ready for next year?

pudge
08-01-2004, 03:10 AM
why can't the sox do it now???? they would probably be 5 up if they didn't lose their top two hitters. please.
keep on smoking whatever you are smoking.

OEO Magglio
08-01-2004, 03:12 AM
A couple of things.

1. Jose Valentin is clutch but I don't want to see him in a Sox uniform next year
2. Willie Harris sucks.
3. If the Sox lose out on Maggs, I'd like to see them get another quality pitcher. (But who knows w/ Diaz and Cotts in the mix for next year)

Also, whats everyone's opinion on Wilson Valdez? He's hitting .341 at Charlotte with 3E in 40 games. He seems to be mostly a singles hitter. Does anyone think he'll be ready for next year?Valdez really isn't a prospect, he's 26 years old and basically draws no walks, that being said who knows maybe he'll be something descent but my guess would be a utility guy in the majors.

Win1ForMe
08-01-2004, 03:22 AM
Yes, he does. If Magglio is gone, then the lineup will most likely take on this form:

CF- Rowand
2B- Uribe
DH- Thomas
LF- Lee
RF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Davis
I seriously doubt we go in to next season with virtually the same line-up. I would expect some changes to be made.

gosox41
08-01-2004, 09:03 AM
I don't think our lineup will look like the one we see now. For instance, Maggs leaving would open up enough payroll to sign a good catcher, such as Kendall, and another good bat. Or, we could end up in the running for Carlos Beltran. So, this hitting lineup will keep its core guys while adding another (or two) good players. It's exciting stuff. Waiting til next year does suck, though.
I would say Magglio's money has been spend on Garcia ($9 mill) and Everett ($4.5 mill) for next year.


Bob

gosox41
08-01-2004, 09:04 AM
Based on what?

Payroll is dependent on the profit margin Jerry Reinsdorf sets, not on what the income of the team is.

Here we go again.


Bob

owensmouth
08-01-2004, 10:03 AM
Who says Magglio is gone? To put it another way, who is going to risk the big bucks on a damaged knee?

For those who want Valentin gone, I understand you. Just make sure that Uribe and Willie precede him down the tracks.

michned
08-01-2004, 10:23 AM
I seriously doubt we go in to next season with virtually the same line-up. I would expect some changes to be made.
The current team is not the one Ozzie wants for his style of play. KW has basically locked up his starters contractually for the next few years so you can almost see the direction this team is heading. When you look at the station-to-station guys we have (Lee, Konerko, Valentin, Crede) I would not be surprised to see some or even all of them gone. Given that the farm is failrly depleted, KW will need to use his major league roster for trading to re-tool this club. And Maggs? It was already mentioned in this thread, Maggs' money has gone to pay Garcia and Contreras.

The question for Sox fans: Do you want to see good pitching and good fundamental baseball? Or do you want guys trying to hit home runs every time they're up, poor baserunning, and poor defense? Kenny and Ozzie want the former.

OVERHAUL IT, KENNY!

harwar
08-01-2004, 10:32 AM
Our future is not bright.
Our entire infield sucks,save konerko.
Borchard is a total bust.
Maggs .. gone.Frank is going to be hurt or just not young enough to get the job done anymore.
The indians and tigers are young and coming on.
The White Sox are a total mess and since KW traded away most of our young talent,i don't see how we are going to get any better,any time soon.
Most of you young guys will be able to deal with this better than those of us who have been dealing with this **** for 40 or more years.:(:

ChiSoxBobette
08-01-2004, 10:51 AM
PK, Lee, Rowand, Crede, Frank, Buehrle, Marte, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, and probably another big time bat to replace Maggs (or Maggs stays)....this was a very good trade, in my mind. We probably weren't going to keep Loaiza, and now we have a guy that could possibly get it together in a lower-spotlight team. We could be very good in the future. This is smart.
If everything stays the way it is with this team meaning we keep most of the players you mentioned I think there is only 3 things the White Sox should do in the off season besides make sure they sign Maggs,
1- get a bonafide leadoff hitter
2- get a shortstop
3- get that long reliever that we don't have thats cost us a few ballgames this year.
the outfield is set(if we sign maggs)
C.Lee, Aaron Rowand, Maggs
the infield should be ok with a couple of tweeks
3b- Crede(but he had better live up to his potential in 2005) SS-Free agent,minor league player ie Valdez, 2nd - I the harris experiment has run its course dump him, Uribe is a utility player so we go with a free agent or a trade, 1st - Pauly is fine there, catcher- I wish we had traded Crede instead of Olivo (the M's actually asked about Crede first)so we need to bring in a FA or get soemone by trade what we have now is just mediocre(Burke should be a backup)
Our starting rotation is fine , but if we could dump garland off on someone else and get a good starter I'd look into that
the bullpen needs some help as in long releif, I'd keep Takatsu, Marte, politte and adkins and then we'd have to add from there.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2004, 01:59 PM
Just a feeling...

Based on Ozzie's comments the season I think he is already disgusted at the Sox style of play and is going to insist on major changes in the off season.

I would be shocked if you see Maggs, Frank, Konerko and Lee together next season. If Frank returns (very likely) and Maggs signs a one year incentive ladel deal (possible) I think either Paul or Lee or both are gone.

Ozzie wants some slap hitters, guys who have averages in the .280, guys who can run and perhaps most importantly guys who have a 'baseball IQ' I'm not singling out Paul or Lee just that they are probably the two most tradable parts.

Add to that the free agency years of Jose' and Schowenweis and you have the makings of a massive overhaul.

Lip

Joel Perez
08-01-2004, 02:11 PM
I'll say this just once.

2005 won't matter until the Sox get themselves a top-of-the-order hitter, and a bona-fide #2. Otherwise, the only accomplishment we'll see in 2005 is a chance that the Sox will break their own record for most solo HRs in a single season.

The Sox have too many guys who swing by their heels, and not enough guys who can get on base consistently from the 1 and 2 spot in their lineup.

Man, I'm fed up with this.

Flight #24
08-01-2004, 02:40 PM
I'll say this just once.

2005 won't matter until the Sox get themselves a top-of-the-order hitter, and a bona-fide #2. Otherwise, the only accomplishment we'll see in 2005 is a chance that the Sox will break their own record for most solo HRs in a single season.

The Sox have too many guys who swing by their heels, and not enough guys who can get on base consistently from the 1 and 2 spot in their lineup.

Man, I'm fed up with this.
I dunno - ARow hitting .290 v. righties and .300+ v. lefties seems like a pretty solid #2 hitter to me. And he's got some solid fundamentals when needed (bunting, etc.).