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Viva Magglio
07-31-2004, 10:41 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.

BainesHOF
07-31-2004, 10:46 AM
Offman is Cubbie boy. I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.

ndgt10
07-31-2004, 10:46 AM
that sucks...

gosox41
07-31-2004, 10:49 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.
What did you expect the team to do? There's no single differene maker out there that wants to come here that the Sox can afford to give up talent for.

Unfortunately, KW isn't a surgeon or else maybe he'd be able to give this team a heart transplant.



Bob

JB98
07-31-2004, 10:51 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.
Could be a blessing in disguise. Right now, the guys are playing like they are waiting for the calvary to come and save their sorry asses. Maybe now they'll realize that Beltran and RJ ain't coming.

Blob
07-31-2004, 10:51 AM
What did you expect the team to do? There's no single differene maker out there that wants to come here that the Sox can afford to give up talent for.

Unfortunately, KW isn't a surgeon or else maybe he'd be able to give this team a heart transplant.



Bob
That's ture. There are a few holes on this team. There is not one magical trade out there. We just have to tread water until we get Frank and Maggs back and hope that our pitching holds out.

CubKilla
07-31-2004, 10:53 AM
Could be a blessing in disguise. Right now, the guys are playing like they are waiting for the calvary to come and save their sorry asses. Maybe now they'll realize that Beltran and RJ ain't coming.
I'm pretty sure there wasn't one player wearing a White Sox uniform that thought either would be a realistic possibility given their bosses cheap demeanor.

Soxzilla
07-31-2004, 10:57 AM
The ironic part of this all. White sox starting pitching hasn't given up more than 4 runs in the last 5 games.:(:

JB98
07-31-2004, 11:00 AM
I'm pretty sure there wasn't one player wearing a White Sox uniform that thought either would be a realistic possibility given their bosses cheap demeanor.
Maybe not, but you can substitute any name you want in there. It doesn't change my point.

JRIG
07-31-2004, 11:08 AM
What did you expect the team to do? There's no single differene maker out there that wants to come here that the Sox can afford to give up talent for.

Unfortunately, KW isn't a surgeon or else maybe he'd be able to give this team a heart transplant.

Bob
How many resources do you invest in a sinking ship? The way the Sox are constructed now, they have a chance, but certainly not as great as it was two weeks ago. There is no one player out there to make the difference, Even if we were to grab Randy Johnson, it doesn't address our inability to hit. And if we get Beltran, it's a help, but there's still major problems.

hose
07-31-2004, 11:09 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.

I like the fact that KW is quiet......this tells me he has something in the works.

CubKilla
07-31-2004, 11:21 AM
I like the fact that KW is quiet......this tells me he has something in the works.
Or maybe he's quiet because he finally realizes he now needs 3-4 players at the very least to become a legit contender.

Blob
07-31-2004, 11:26 AM
The ironic part of this all. White sox starting pitching hasn't given up more than 4 runs in the last 5 games.:(:
The pitching has been there, the hitting hasn't. The only bad pitching was Marte in the game last night. He should have held them.

1917
07-31-2004, 11:27 AM
Really what was he going to get? Nothing is out there in our range. Even if he got Harriston it wouldn't be the answer. If the trade deadline was lasat Sat when we had a half game lead, I still don't know who he would have got. Slim year on the trade front. Finley wants to stay out west, Astros are hanging on to Beltran for some unknown reason (real dumb move, especially with Pettite out). Really 4 games is nothing, but as a business man, Kenny knows that he can't afford a player to give up with Thomas and Maggs and possibly Carl out of the lineup. If we were at full strength, he may get risky, but he is looking down the road

Lip Man 1
07-31-2004, 11:28 AM
Bob and JRIG have the scenario pegged correctly.

Stand pat and then it's back to the drawing board again this off season, as Williams tries to piece things together and hope to catch a season long break.

Lip

soxwon
07-31-2004, 11:41 AM
it is so hard to be a sox fan, the ups and downs of this team.

we were so optomistic, we coud even be in the world series.
we were making ground on the Flubs.

ok a couple of key injuries occured. so what!!!
kw was going to make a few Huge Trades.

now it appears Nothing will happen.
we better not be giving up already!!!

im sure KW will make some sort of move.

now its back to watching the Flubs go after the wild card.
while we have to get by with what we have!!!

if the Administration(kw,jr) have given up
bring up these prize rookies then
sweeney, anderson, diaz, maybe they will pump new blood into the team.

its so frustrating to be a sox fan, these days.
i havent given up hope, never will, but it seems like the orginzation has.

Gimm
07-31-2004, 11:45 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.Unreal.

White Sox have not learned one damn thing from the 2003 Debacle when just 10 Mill worth of talent added to the microscopic (esp. for an All-Star Game Year which also happened to mark a 10- and 20-year anniversary of divisional titles no less!) 50 Mill payroll around June would have all but clinched the division, easily and probably made us into a legitimate WS contender. They could have still made the Alomar/Everet-for-prospects deal later on......But I guess a 60 Mill payroll was too much to expect, eh? :rolleyes:

Now JR is gonna sit on his hands when the team is in DIRE need of talent influx - after he and KW have been chirping about 1917 for months/years and the former sat in the booth lying through his teeth about money "not being a problem" just a few days ago??!!

The team just recently was 10 games over .500, fans are starting to flock back to the renovated park, ratings are dramatically up, further park improvements are scheduled for 2005, the Comcast $$$ will be rolling in, the Brooks Boyer Effect, Cubs are a disappointment....My god, knowing all that, if you're still unwilling to make a gamble and try to build on THAT momentum and hopefully turn the entire franchise around and become an AL powerhouse....then get the **** out of town and get people here who ARE worth a damn as owners and GM's.

I can understand why Randy Johnson is not here (too expensive, too risky, no-trade clause)......But for the love of god, why wasn't Jose Cruz or Burnitz starting in RF a week ago when Sox were still in 1st place, and were looking to squash Minnesota and never look back given Twins' extremely tough August schedule? Did KW really think Joe Borchard/Timo Perez thing was gonna work? Borchard alone cost us a game against the Twins and another one against the Tigers last night.

And I don't want to hear about Freddy and Jurrasik. Freddy was a necessity after it became apparent that Shoeneweiss, Loaiza and Garland could't carry the team. That move HAD to be made just to save the season, so let's not pretend like it was a Moreno-esqe gesture of magnanimity on part of the ownership, ok? Everett? The guy sucked in Montreal, nobody wanted him, so getting him is really non-news, a weak stop-gap until Frank is back.

Now that Magglio is out and the team is facing (well, they were facing it as of 4 days ago - now they're pretty much IN it) a potentially season-ending tailspin, WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING POSSIBLE BEING DONE BY PEOPLE WHO SWORE THEY WERE DEAD-SERIOUS ABOUT ENDING the 86-YEAR DROUGHT THIS VERY SEASON???? How stupid does JR think Sox fans are?

Arizona couldn't give away Robbie for free. He can still get on base against RHP and would serve as a dirt-cheap insurence against either Uribe/Crede/Harris succumbing to pennant race pressure. You got Burnitz making practically nothing rotting in Colorado. Jose Cruz is having a down year, but can steal get on base, field and run. The upside on either RF is huge; they won't cost premierre prospects, and would be making practially NOTHING in the final 2 months of the season, so KW can't even use use the "but we aren't the Yankees" excuse. Then you have Gregg Zaun in Toronto, his OBP will look nice in the #2 hole. Etc.

As Cubs proved last year, even a couple of quality players can make a huge difference with change of scenery. Hell, look at what Shannon Stewart did for the Twins!

I don't expect the impossible (90+ Mill payroll, Unit, Beltran, Delgado, Pavano, etc), but jesus christ is this pathetic or what! Sox are conceding the season. The timing couldn't be worse.

.

ndgt10
07-31-2004, 11:50 AM
Good first post Gimm...

soxwon
07-31-2004, 12:19 PM
Good first post Gimm...
i agree welcome to the NUT HOUSE pal.
very good rant welcome aboard

habibharu
07-31-2004, 12:21 PM
Finally KW will make a GOOD move for once!

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 12:22 PM
Finally KW will make a GOOD move for once!Unbelievable.:rolleyes:

habibharu
07-31-2004, 12:24 PM
Unbelievable.:rolleyes: No, whats unbeleiveble is the support that KW gets on this board!

ma-gaga
07-31-2004, 12:26 PM
Unreal.
...
Now JR is gonna sit on his hands when the team is in DIRE need of talent influx
...
why wasn't Jose Cruz or Burnitz starting in RF a week ago when Sox were still in 1st place
...
Sox are conceding the season. The timing couldn't be worse.
Burnitz is a Colorado player. Don't believe that he brings that 0.975 OPS to USCF. There's no way that happens, you'd be foolish to believe that. Park Factors exist. Jose Cruz Jr is an interesting question. Hasn't he been gimpy this year as well? He started off that first game with 2 homeruns, has he hit any since?

The screaming for new talent is nothing new. But there IS nothing out there. Teams either consider themselves 'in contention' or 'rebuilding' and there's just not a lot of players stuck in between. Toronto and Baltimore have some players whom legitimately could be moved, if Delgado would waive his no trade clause, and if Baltimore hadn't deluded itself into thinking they could contend this year. Possibly the same with Anaheim. Pittsburgh is just about empty of their tradable comodities, same with Seattle. There is SIMPLY nothing available, unless you catch lightning in a bottle and trade for John Mabry whose career OPS+ is 91, but somehow playing for Oakland it was 117. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mabryjo01.shtml) There is nothing out there. The new order of baseball has arrived, Selig grins evilly. Damn that parity.

oh yeah... Welcome to WSI! Have a beer: :gulp:

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 12:31 PM
No, whats unbeleiveble is the support that KW gets on this board!What do you have against kenny? It's unbelievable that their our people who somehow think that kenny is a bad gm.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 12:33 PM
What do you have against kenny? It's unbelievable that their our people who somehow think that kenny is a bad gm. I didnt say that he is a bad GM, but he certainly isnt a good GM!

Gimm
07-31-2004, 12:45 PM
Burnitz is a Colorado player. Don't believe that he brings that 0.975 OPS to USCF. There's no way that happens, you'd be foolish to believe that. Park Factors exist. USCF is a bigger HR park than Coors. And Burnitz doesn't have to be a 975 OPS player. I'll settle for 850-875.

The screaming for new talent is nothing new. Of course it's not new - sensible fans realize that the assorted incompetents and liars in charge of our beloved White Sox are running this team into the ground, and that without miracle seasons from Uribe, Loaiza, Schoeneweiss, this team will die a fast but still painful death. Then will come the fan backlash. The 50 Mill payroll last year was criminal. The 65 Mill one this year is not far behind.

Give me more talent is dmn right.

But there IS nothing out there.Are you kidding me?

CubKilla
07-31-2004, 12:46 PM
What do you have against kenny? It's unbelievable that their our people who somehow think that kenny is a bad gm.
He is. Being aggressive doesn't mean you're good.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 12:48 PM
He is. Being aggressive doesn't mean you're good. GREAT POINT! DO NOT ever confuse activity with accomplishment!

Procol Harum
07-31-2004, 12:48 PM
Could be a blessing in disguise. Right now, the guys are playing like they are waiting for the calvary to come and save their sorry asses. Maybe now they'll realize that Beltran and RJ ain't coming.
I suppose you're being ironical about the proposed help, but if the players EVER believed either Beltran or Johnson were coming here they must also believe in the Easter Bunny...

Gimm
07-31-2004, 01:02 PM
What do you have against kenny? It's unbelievable that their our people who somehow think that kenny is a bad gm.He is not a bad GM, but he is certainly not a good one, either.

-He should have prepared for Loiaza coming back to earth.

-He should have knocked off the "start Koch, Ozzie" nonsense and let Shingo save a few crucial games for us in April and May.

-He should have recognized that Uribe is not a 900 OPS hitter and that Shoneweiss is not a 3.50 ERA pitcher when they got off to torrid starts early.


Back when the team was overachieving, he should have KNOWN and made plans as to future replacement accordingly. As soon as it became known that Thomas/Ordonez are done, he should have made a presentation of his life to convince JR that getting major talent at the deadline is, in fact, a great idea.

But since he is a puppet, that ain't happening.

soltrain21
07-31-2004, 01:05 PM
getting major talent at the deadline is, in fact, a great idea.

And what would we trade to get this major talent?

Wealz
07-31-2004, 01:07 PM
He is not a bad GM, but he is certainly not a good one, either.

-He should have prepared for Loiaza coming back to earth.

-He should have knocked off the "start Koch, Ozzie" nonsense and let Shingo save a few crucial games for us in April and May.

-He should have recognized that Uribe is not a 900 OPS hitter and that Shoneweiss is not a 3.50 ERA pitcher when they got off to torrid starts early.


Back when the team was overachieving, he should have KNOWN and made plans as to future replacement accordingly. As soon as it became known that Thomas/Ordonez are done, he should have made a presentation of his life to convince JR that getting major talent at the deadline is, in fact, a great idea.

But since he is a puppet, that ain't happening.
You act like replacements were readily available.

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 01:12 PM
He is not a bad GM, but he is certainly not a good one, either.

-He should have prepared for Loiaza coming back to earth.

-He should have knocked off the "start Koch, Ozzie" nonsense and let Shingo save a few crucial games for us in April and May.

-He should have recognized that Uribe is not a 900 OPS hitter and that Shoneweiss is not a 3.50 ERA pitcher when they got off to torrid starts early.


Back when the team was overachieving, he should have KNOWN and made plans as to future replacement accordingly. As soon as it became known that Thomas/Ordonez are done, he should have made a presentation of his life to convince JR that getting major talent at the deadline is, in fact, a great idea.

But since he is a puppet, that ain't happening.Here's the problem, Kenny can't predict the future.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 01:18 PM
Here's the problem, Kenny can't predict the future. i dont think that you have to be able predict the future to know that scho. is not a SP and that uribe is not a .350 hitter!

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 01:20 PM
i dont think that you have to be able predict the future to know that scho. is not a SP and that uribe is not a .350 hitter!Ok and what would you have liked kenny to do, trade them? Uribe was brought in here to be a utitlity guy and shoe was supposed to be our 4th or 5th starter which he is still doing a descent job at.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 01:24 PM
Ok and what would you have liked kenny to do, trade them? Uribe was brought in here to be a utitlity guy and shoe was supposed to be our 4th or 5th starter which he is still doing a descent job at. Well thats the problem right there! Scho. is NOT a SP, he is RP! and yes uribe was the utility guy, so why was KW counting on him to be the starter at 2b???

Gimm
07-31-2004, 01:26 PM
Here's the problem, Kenny can't predict the future.
Predicting the future? Please. Try common sense.

Admittedly, JR being the greedy lying bastard is the biggest problem.

But having a mediocre GM in charge of an already modest payroll certainly doesn't help the matters any.

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 01:26 PM
Well thats the problem right there! Scho. is NOT a SP, he is RP! and yes uribe was the utility guy, so why was KW counting on him to be the starter at 2b???He wasn't, when uribe was batting .350 ozzie said he was the 2b and why not ride out his hot streak? Uribe was playing everyday until he cooled down, now he's back to bein the utility guy and wilile is back at 2b.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 01:27 PM
He wasn't, when uribe was batting .350 ozzie said he was the 2b and why not ride out his hot streak? Uribe was playing everyday until he cooled down, now he's back to bein the utility guy and wilile is back at 2b. Well willie wasnt proven either! you cant count on him to be the 2B either! he should of signed a guy like Vina or walker!

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 01:31 PM
Well willie wasnt proven either! you cant count on him to be the 2B either! he should of signed a guy like Vina or walker!I would have loved Walker but you can blame that on JR the payroll had already exceeded the limit so that really wasn't up to kenny. Vina has been injured all year so that wouldn't have been a good pickup.

habibharu
07-31-2004, 01:42 PM
I would have loved Walker but you can blame that on JR the payroll had already exceeded the limit so that really wasn't up to kenny. Vina has been injured all year so that wouldn't have been a good pickup. well those are just two examples. if we were really going for it this year, KW should not of counted on two unproven guys to start at 2b!

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 01:44 PM
well those are just two examples. if we were really going for it this year, KW should not of counted on two unproven guys to start at 2b!Your right with our 60 million dollar payroll we can just fill every hole. Maybe we can be like the yankees and have Miguel Cairo and Enrique Wilson splitting time at second base.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 01:46 PM
I dont understand why people bash KW so much. He went out and brought in some quality guys. Then maggs decided he couldnt DH, went out to RF and hurt his knee. Thomas somehow got hurt being a DH. Its bad luck. KW didnt injure these guys. Bad luck just plagues this team

Man Soo Lee
07-31-2004, 01:58 PM
Your right with our 60 million dollar payroll we can just fill every hole. Maybe we can be like the yankees and have Miguel Cairo and Enrique Wilson splitting time at second base.
The Yankees don't need or expect anything from those guys offensively.

If the Sox had a legitimate lead off hitter and could stick Harris/Uribe at the bottom of the order, it wouldn't be an issue.

Gimm
07-31-2004, 01:59 PM
Bad luck just plagues this team
No, cheap and short-sighted ownership plagues this team. Everything else is the by-product thereof.

And talk to Twinkies about injuries. Mauer, Stewart, Hunter, Menkevic and Koskie injuries (the latter two aren't the same after coming back) hurt them easily as much as Ordonez and Thomas hurt the Sox.

DickAllen72
07-31-2004, 02:33 PM
Unreal.

Arizona couldn't give away Robbie for free. He can still get on base against RHP and would serve as a dirt-cheap insurence against either Uribe/Crede/Harris succumbing to pennant race pressure.




Thank you!

Gimm
07-31-2004, 05:29 PM
Thank you!
I think people have forgotten that Robbie is still, well, Robbie. Just because he is 36 doesn't mean his talent and skill is non-existent. He just can't drive the ball with power anymore, and it has taken him a while to adjust his swing to that fact.

The man has a 375 OBP against RHP, can bunt like hell, can still run and field. Against righties, he is an ideal #2 hitter.

And unlike Harris/Uribe/Crede who can suffer through a meltdown under pressure at ANY moment, Robbie can be counted on....against RHP anyway.

As long as he sits against lefties, he'll be a fine addition.

Again, he is so damn cheap, even the Sox can afford him. Not like last year when he was making 8.5 Mill a year.

Bruck35
08-01-2004, 01:28 AM
...we are not expected to make any deals today. In other words, we're standing pat with the dead weight we have now.
More proof that George Ofman has a great feel for White Sox baseball and KW.

DickAllen72
08-01-2004, 01:37 AM
I think people have forgotten that Robbie is still, well, Robbie. Just because he is 36 doesn't mean his talent and skill is non-existent. He just can't drive the ball with power anymore, and it has taken him a while to adjust his swing to that fact.

The man has a 375 OBP against RHP, can bunt like hell, can still run and field. Against righties, he is an ideal #2 hitter.

And unlike Harris/Uribe/Crede who can suffer through a meltdown under pressure at ANY moment, Robbie can be counted on....against RHP anyway.

As long as he sits against lefties, he'll be a fine addition.

Again, he is so damn cheap, even the Sox can afford him. Not like last year when he was making 8.5 Mill a year.

In addition to all of that, he'd make a great mentor for Willie and Juan.

The Sox have been playing stupid baseball of late, and Robbie has "baseball smarts"

I wanted the Sox to pick up Robbie (before yesterday's deadline) and on this board the idea was greeted with negative wisecracks and sarcasm.
:rolleyes: