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View Full Version : What is Ozzie doing?


oeo
07-31-2004, 01:16 AM
How come Ozzie hasn't just yelled and screamed at this team like he said he was going to do when they were in a slump after being swept by the Flubs. I remember him saying he was so embarrassed that if they didn't win that game against the Angels, the whole team was going to hear from him.

Well Ozzie, it's about time you take control of this team, get them back to Ozzie-ball, win some ballgames, and win this division.

Now get on it.

mdep524
07-31-2004, 02:36 AM
How come Ozzie hasn't just yelled and screamed at this team like he said he was going to do when they were in a slump after being swept by the Flubs. I remember him saying he was so embarrassed that if they didn't win that game against the Angels, the whole team was going to hear from him.

Well Ozzie, it's about time you take control of this team, get them back to Ozzie-ball, win some ballgames, and win this division.

Now get on it.
Um, I'm sorry, I think you are confused. The Sox manager is Ozzie Guillen, not Larry Bowa.

Yelling and screaming will do nothing. Ozzie is motivating his players as best he can, he can't get them "back" to Ozzieball if they were never there to begin with.

BainesHOF
07-31-2004, 02:37 AM
Ozzie has done more than his share contributing to the precarious position we find ourselves in now. He's mishandled the bullpen to the embarrassing point that he's had trouble signaling for the right reliever, blindly sticks with struggling starters, consistently lets bad hitters bat in late innings with better hitters never entering the game, never argues with umpires, had the club roll over when Hunter sent Burke to the hospital, weirdly sticks with Harris and has failed to teach his team to bunt.

JB98
07-31-2004, 02:42 AM
Um, I'm sorry, I think you are confused. The Sox manager is Ozzie Guillen, not Larry Bowa.

Yelling and screaming will do nothing. Ozzie is motivating his players as best he can, he can't get them "back" to Ozzieball if they were never there to begin with.
I think the players might need a pat on the back right now. Everything, and I mean everything, is going against us. The pitchers can't get the big outs. Our fielders are muffing easy plays, most notably Valentin and Crede. Our hitters are failing miserably in the clutch. Key players are succumbing to injury. Ozzie needs to find a way to build these players up. I don't think there's any confidence in the dugout at all right now. Yelling and screaming will not fix that.

JB98
07-31-2004, 02:45 AM
Ozzie has done more than his share contributing to the precarious position we find ourselves in now. He's mishandled the bullpen to the embarrassing point that he's had trouble signaling for the right reliever, blindly sticks with struggling starters, consistently lets bad hitters bat in late innings with better hitters never entering the game, never argues with umpires, had the club roll over when Hunter sent Burke to the hospital, weirdly sticks with Harris and has failed to teach his team to bunt.
Why the hell did he pinch-hit Gload for Burke tonight? Jamie is the only one of the three catchers who has a prayer of getting a base hit right now. As a result of that move, Davis was at the plate in the ninth inning again. That's an automatic out.

Harris belongs in AAA. I don't know that Ozzie had any choice but to play him tonight though. It's pretty clear to me that Valentin needed to sit for a day, and who else do we have? I didn't care for Harris batting second, or for Borchard batting sixth. Those should be the 8 and 9 batters, respectively. I have more faith in Burke than I do in Harris and Borchard.

mdep524
07-31-2004, 02:48 AM
Ozzie has done more than his share contributing to the precarious position we find ourselves in now. He's mishandled the bullpen to the embarrassing point that he's had trouble signaling for the right reliever, blindly sticks with struggling starters, consistently lets bad hitters bat in late innings with better hitters never entering the game, never argues with umpires, had the club roll over when Hunter sent Burke to the hospital, weirdly sticks with Harris and has failed to teach his team to bunt.
If we've learned anything from the last few years of White Sox baseball, it is that you cannot TEACH a major league player to bunt. You are either a bunter or not.

JB98
07-31-2004, 02:57 AM
If we've learned anything from the last few years of White Sox baseball, it is that you cannot TEACH a major league player to bunt. You are either a bunter or not.
I don't agree with that. The Cubs have been working with Corey Patterson, and it's starting to pay dividends. I read he has like 10 bunt hits or something this year. There are certain players on the team who should never bunt (Lee, Konerko, Everett, et al.). A guy like Willie, whose best tool is his legs, needs to learn to bunt. Of course, I believe Harris should be leading off in Charlotte. He could improve his skills down there.

BainesHOF
07-31-2004, 03:00 AM
If we've learned anything from the last few years of White Sox baseball, it is that you cannot TEACH a major league player to bunt. You are either a bunter or not.
That's bull. Our guys don't even look like they're trying. It's easy to at least look like you know what you're doing. A good manager would insist on knowing how to bunt. We don't have a good manager, which is one of our many problems.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2004, 08:30 AM
I suppose youd rather have Manuel or Bevington back. when everything was going good this whole board was praising Ozzie--you cant have it both ways--and of the managers available when Manuel was fired who would you rather have than Ozzie

you cant win the Kentucky derby with a bunch of mules??? You better believe it

idseer
07-31-2004, 08:40 AM
If we've learned anything from the last few years of White Sox baseball, it is that you cannot TEACH a major league player to bunt. You are either a bunter or not.
these guys aren't old dogs. they are plenty young enough to learn how to bunt, and if they are wise they will in fact hire someone who really understands that art to come in and teach them this coming winter and spring.

TornLabrum
07-31-2004, 09:59 AM
A little over two months ago Ozzie was a genius. A little over two months ago he had Maggs and Frank in the lineup. Now he is a bum. Funny how neither of those two is in the lineup.

But it's a lot easier to blame the manager than it is to blame the loss of your two best offensive players...especially for those who have been advocating trading both of them.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2004, 10:34 AM
thats a good point , Lip- personally I think Ozzie has done alright---would we be better off with Maggs and Frank--sure---but we still wouldnt be any better off in the long run--I cant see this team winning the world series or going deep in the playoffs as it is now----we need some serious OBP guys at the top of the order.

samram
07-31-2004, 10:45 AM
A little over two months ago Ozzie was a genius. A little over two months ago he had Maggs and Frank in the lineup. Now he is a bum. Funny how neither of those two is in the lineup.

But it's a lot easier to blame the manager than it is to blame the loss of your two best offensive players...especially for those who have been advocating trading both of them.

I agree with you, but if you decide to blame the loss of your two best offensive players, you're basically saying the team has no chance. Maybe that's the case. However, with two months to go, and only a four game deficit (call me crazy:D: ), the manager has to find a way to get the team to perform better. Unfortunately, I can't think of what he can do right now- there's no one on the bench or in the minors that will make a big difference right now. So Ozzie has to get a better performance out of who he has.

BainesHOF
07-31-2004, 11:44 AM
I suppose youd rather have Manuel or Bevington back. when everything was going good this whole board was praising Ozzie--you cant have it both ways--and of the managers available when Manuel was fired who would you rather have than Ozzie

you cant win the Kentucky derby with a bunch of mules??? You better believe it
Of course not.

And I'm not going both ways. I've had reservations about Ozzie since the day he was hired. All the stuff about Ozzieball is silly. While Ozzie is not to blame solely for the team's collapse, he's definitely played his part, and also hurt us earlier in the season. We should have had a bigger cushion before our free fall.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:46 AM
What is Ozzie doing?

1) Drinking heavily, every night.
2) Crying himself to sleep
3) Rocking and muttering to himself while awake

At least that is what I would be doing in his shoes...

FightingBillini
07-31-2004, 11:55 AM
thats a good point , Lip- personally I think Ozzie has done alright---would we be better off with Maggs and Frank--sure---but we still wouldnt be any better off in the long run--I cant see this team winning the world series or going deep in the playoffs as it is now----we need some serious OBP guys at the top of the order.
I disagree. Although unlikely, I could see an offense like this winning the World Series if we had Maggs and Frank. If they got hot at the right time, they would be unstoppable. Just look back two years to see how the Angels absolutely destroyed the vaunted Yankees' pitching staff. If our offense got hot in the playoffs, there would be no stopping us. However, they would more than likely lie down like they did in 2000.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 12:02 PM
He needs to take the whole team out and get them drunk. This team is so tight, you couldn't push a needle up their collective asses.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2004, 12:39 PM
From Joe Cowley's story in the Saturday Daily Southtown:

"That didn't sit too well with manager Ozzie Guillen, who has been working with Harris on his bunting all season. "It's frustrating when you work with a kid and he still doesn't get the bunt down," Guillen said."

Bottom line folks is that sooner or later, the PLAYERS HAVE TO PRODUCE when called upon.

Ozzie and his staff have been working with the players, Manager Gandhi and his staff worked with the players, and it's obvious that for the past five years the Sox are simply a 'baseball dumb' team.

Perhaps as some have suggested they need to change their drafting philosophy and get 'baseball players' not 'athletes.'

There's a BIG difference between the two, just ask the Twins.

Lip

balboner
07-31-2004, 12:40 PM
I believe that Ozzie made a terrible mistake by letting Borchard hit in the 8th inning last night. Instead of having Timo go run for Everett, he could have had Sandy run instead. Then, Timo could have batted for Borchard in what was a contact-needed situation. Two of the best things that Timo does is make contact and deliver clutch hits. However, Ozzie decided to let Borchard hit against Yan. A simple "thought process" would show that Borchard is a massive strikeout hitter, while Yan is a good strikeout pitcher. How many people really thought that Borchard could hit the ball against Yan? I was shocked he even fouled off 3 pitches. Also, Ozzie needs to lose the 3 catcher combination. It's stupid and hampers the roster. Send Sandy to the DL before he hits another weak grounder to SS.

oeo
07-31-2004, 12:43 PM
I suppose youd rather have Manuel or Bevington back. when everything was going good this whole board was praising Ozzie--you cant have it both ways--and of the managers available when Manuel was fired who would you rather have than Ozzie

you cant win the Kentucky derby with a bunch of mules??? You better believe it
I love Ozzie, I was a huge fan of him when he was a player and I'm a huge fan now. He really sparked this organization. But he needs to do something to get his guys pumped up so we can win some ballgames.

oldcomiskey
07-31-2004, 01:20 PM
I disagree. Although unlikely, I could see an offense like this winning the World Series if we had Maggs and Frank. If they got hot at the right time, they would be unstoppable. Just look back two years to see how the Angels absolutely destroyed the vaunted Yankees' pitching staff. If our offense got hot in the playoffs, there would be no stopping us. However, they would more than likely lie down like they did in 2000.
the Angles didnt slug their way to a world series in 2002-----no team this side of the 27 Yankees has ever slugged their way to a world series

mcfish
07-31-2004, 03:46 PM
I believe that Ozzie made a terrible mistake by letting Borchard hit in the 8th inning last night. Instead of having Timo go run for Everett, he could have had Sandy run instead. Then, Timo could have batted for Borchard in what was a contact-needed situation. Two of the best things that Timo does is make contact and deliver clutch hits. However, Ozzie decided to let Borchard hit against Yan. A simple "thought process" would show that Borchard is a massive strikeout hitter, while Yan is a good strikeout pitcher. How many people really thought that Borchard could hit the ball against Yan? I was shocked he even fouled off 3 pitches. Also, Ozzie needs to lose the 3 catcher combination. It's stupid and hampers the roster. Send Sandy to the DL before he hits another weak grounder to SS.

I didn't watch the game last night, but I take it from your post that when Everett got hurt, Timo came in to pinch run, but you would have liked to see Sandy run instead. Now I'm no genious, but I believe that Ozzie is unable to see into the future. So he couldn't have known that he would "need" Timo in the 8th, but he did know that he needed a pinch runner right then. Now, you tell me that if you look to the bench and see Timo and Sandy in that situation that you would send Sandy out to run. I like Sandy a lot and I'm very happy he is on the team and with the organization, but having him pinch run would be just stupid.

mcfish
07-31-2004, 03:50 PM
I suppose youd rather have Manuel or Bevington back. when everything was going good this whole board was praising Ozzie--you cant have it both ways--and of the managers available when Manuel was fired who would you rather have than Ozzie

you cant win the Kentucky derby with a bunch of mules??? You better believe it

When everything was going good, I thought that Ozzie would eventually learn how to use a bullpen, but judging by the number of times MJ has come in with runners on, that is not the case. I like Ozzie as a manager and I'm glad he's here, but I fell he deserves some criticism for the way things are going and his inability to learn how to manage a pitching staff.

skobabe8
07-31-2004, 03:55 PM
What doess this team need? Easy. A good, old-fashioned benches clearing brawl.