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View Full Version : *Official* Post-game thread: July 30 at Detroit, Free-fall continues


PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:35 PM
This ought to be good.

:cool:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:36 PM
6 in a row. We we ever win a game, let alone two in a row?

Nard
07-30-2004, 10:36 PM
I blame the rain.

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:37 PM
I'm stunned. Absolutely unbelievable. I couldn't write this stuff any worse. Station to station baseball at its best. Bases loaded, 1 out, and couldn't get a flyball to save our life.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:37 PM
:jon
"That's just the way I pitch."

doublem23
07-30-2004, 10:38 PM
AH WE WILL NEVER WIN AGAIN! I COMPLETELY DISAVOW ANY RELATIONS I EVER HAD WITH THE WHITE SOX! I HAVE WASTED MY LIFE!


:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:











:rolleyes:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:38 PM
Here is what I do if I'm KW. GET RID OF THE G**DAMN DEAD WEIGHT:

:manos
:LTP

SpartanSoxFan
07-30-2004, 10:38 PM
I blame the rain.
Too bad the rain was the reason we got back into the game in the first place.

Evman5
07-30-2004, 10:38 PM
:(: :(: :(: WE GONE!:(: :(: :(:

ChiSoxTony
07-30-2004, 10:38 PM
It's the same old story all over again. We score a run and give it right back with two outs. This team should fire sale. I can't stomach any more willie harris, jose, borchard, crede. Please be rid of them.

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:39 PM
By the way, Joe Borchard looks to be nowhere near ready to hit major league pitching.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:39 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150122.jpg
"I just love to walk in the winning run!"

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
The Sox will regret the day they gave Joe "Mr. Slow Swing" Borchard five million dollars. It'll be as big a waste as the twenty million to Jamie Navarro.

This has gone beyond embarrassing.

So much for that 'easy' schedule eh folks?

Lip

WSox8404
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
We Gone!!!! is right.

Daver
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
By the way, Joe Borchard looks to be nowhere near ready to hit major league hitting.That would be strange if he played outfield with a bat.


:)

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
Quick! Somebody tell me the Twins lost!

:smile:

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:41 PM
Let's review Willie's at-bat. He does the fake bunt attempt on the first pitch and pulls the back bat even though the ball was right down the middle. Strike 1. Terrible bunt attempt on the second pitch, strike 2. Terrible looking swing at a ball 3 feet outside for the K. Completely, totally overmatched. He should have laid down the ****ing bunt on the first pitch. I cannot stand that "fake bunt attempt/pull the bat back" no matter if the ball is even down the middle of the plate.

nasox
07-30-2004, 10:42 PM
Somebody shoot me. Anybody?

A.T. Money
07-30-2004, 10:42 PM
The Sox are just awful.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:42 PM
That would be strange if he played outfield with a bat.


:)Thank you daver, I needed that.

Daver
07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
Somebody shoot me. Anybody?
What would you prefer, rifle, carbine, shotgun, arrow, cannonball, or lead slingshot load?

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
Since Joe Borchard can't hit, could he at least stick his 6'5" ass into a pitch?

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
Let's review Willie's at-bat. He does the fake bunt attempt on the first pitch and pulls the back bat even though the ball was right down the middle. Strike 1. Terrible bunt attempt on the second pitch, strike 2. Terrible looking swing at a ball 3 feet outside for the K. Completely, totally overmatched. He should have laid down the ****ing bunt on the first pitch. I cannot stand that "fake bunt attempt/pull the bat back" no matter if the ball is even down the middle of the plate.
As pathetic as that was, it still had no effect on the outcome of the game.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
:jon
"That's just the way I pitch.":jon
"It was all the umps fault."


:angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry:

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
The only part of this game I watched was Marte loading the bases. I quickly turned the TV off, figuring the Sox would take care of the rest as they are so prone to do these days.

And they didn't disappoint.

:rolleyes:

Nard
07-30-2004, 10:45 PM
LTP's batting average: .167

Record with LTP playing: 3-8

I'm no the-sky-is-falling conspiracy theorist, but LTP isn't exactly helping things here.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:45 PM
The Sox will regret the day they gave Joe "Mr. Slow Swing" Borchard five million dollars. It'll be as big a waste as the twenty million to Jamie Navarro.

This has gone beyond embarrassing.

So much for that 'easy' schedule eh folks?

Lip
Borchard is here because Magglio isn't. When Maggs came back, Borchard was immediately sent back down. When Maggs went back on the DL, Borchard was immediately called back up again. He is a stop gap solution. He wouldn't be here if we didn't have any better short-term solution.

As for the schedule, you would be the very first one here talking about the "tough" schedule the Sox faced were the roles reversed. In fact this is exactly what you were crowing about last August and September when the Sox faded down the stretch. You were angry then and you're angry now.

Please give it up already.

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:45 PM
That would be strange if he played outfield with a bat.


:)
Brain cramp. E-1. :D:

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:46 PM
But it's typical of the way most of the Sox hitters approach their at bats. They just don't seem to have any plan even if it's 'guessing' on a pitch in a particular spot.

They seem clueless, which helps explain the numerous streaks where the offense disappears.

Lip

cubhater77
07-30-2004, 10:46 PM
it's rather obvious this team does not have what it takes to make the playoffs. not talented enough, and in the twins series, there was no heart. this is the worst month the sox have played in a long time. it looks unlikely there will be any signifigant acquisitions. i'm a fan, but i'm also a realist. at the start of the week we were 10 over 500, now, i wouldn't be shocked if after next week we are below it. borchard won't be the player some thought. valentine is inconsistant, horrible with the glove. hitters seemingly have the long ball on their minds 90 percent of the time. this team is a mess. kw should do whatever it takes to bring beltran in and start laying the foundation for the future. as j.r. would say, anyone who thinks this team without frank, mags, defense, heart, etc. can catch the twins and win it, is crazy. good thing the wolves start in a couple months. @ least there's something to look forward to. 6 runners in one inning, only scoring once should tell all of us this team is pathetic. blow it up, and do something to change its charchter.

A.T. Money
07-30-2004, 10:46 PM
The title of this thread says it all. Who needs stats?

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:47 PM
It's over, folks. No, we haven't been mathematically eliminated. However, I don't see how this baseball team can play .500-ball the rest of the way. And if you think this is bad, just imagine how wonderful the following five seasons will be!!! We'll be the post-Jordan Bulls on the baseball diamond!!!!

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:48 PM
Amazing how 'testy' some folks have gotten lately. I guess another underachieveing year will do that to you.

My point George was that some folks were 'insisting' that things were going to be fine because of the 'schedule.'

You and I have been fans long enough George to know NOTHING is 'easy' for the Sox.

Lip

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:48 PM
The only part of this game I watched was Marte loading the bases. I quickly turned the TV off, figuring the Sox would take care of the rest as they are so prone to do these days.

And they didn't disappoint.

:rolleyes:
Damaso with a 2-0 count on almost every hitter he faced. What ever happened to first-ball strike?

SomebodyToldMe
07-30-2004, 10:48 PM
the thought of a white flag trade is in the back of my mind.

please somebody smack some sense into me, because the sox sure ain't gonna do it.

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 10:49 PM
Here is what I do if I'm KW. GET RID OF THE G**DAMN DEAD WEIGHT:

:manos
:LTP
I agree. Let's add Crede and Loaiza, and really start this re-tooling off.

Fungo
07-30-2004, 10:49 PM
By the way, Joe Borchard looks to be nowhere near ready to hit major league pitching.That was the major corner he turned

Gang, seriously, this is looking real grim. Currently, the Indians are tied with the Royals 5-5 in the 7th. They win, combined with our loss & they are a mere behind us. Any word on Everett?

illinibk
07-30-2004, 10:50 PM
Damaso with a 2-0 count on almost every hitter he faced. What ever happened to first-ball strike?
Marte has turned into Mike Jackson

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 10:50 PM
Well, at least the Sox are still ahead of the Indians by a game.

:dtroll::rolleyes::dtroll:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:50 PM
Amazing how 'testy' some folks have gotten lately. I guess another underachieveing year will do that to you.

My point George was that some folks were 'insisting' that things were going to be fine because of the 'schedule.'

You and I have been fans long enough George to know NOTHING is 'easy' for the Sox.

Lip
You're damn right we're testy. I want my team to win ballgames, which seems to be an extremely radical concept to people associated with that team.

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:51 PM
That was the major corner he turned

Gang, seriously, this is looking real grim. Currently, the Indians are tied with the Royals 5-5 in the 7th. They win, combined with our loss & they are a mere behind us. Any word on Everett?
Oh yeah, you had to remind me of that. Everett possibly out with hammy or knee problem now too. :whiner:

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:51 PM
Amazing how 'testy' some folks have gotten lately. I guess another underachieveing year will do that to you.

My point George was that some folks were 'insisting' that things were going to be fine because of the 'schedule.'

You and I have been fans long enough George to know NOTHING is 'easy' for the Sox.

LipPersonally I never had anything to say about the schedule except to note by the end of September we will have played identical schedules, a few games difference between Tampa and the Flubs aside.

Yes nothing comes easy for the Sox, and if we ever expected it to come easy we wouldn't be Sox Fans. We would be Yankee fans.

Frank the Tank
07-30-2004, 10:51 PM
Who will be our manager next year?

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 10:52 PM
Who will be our manager next year?
Surely you're not blaming this sad display of play on Ozzie Guillen, are you?

:rolleyes::dtroll::rolleyes:

A. Cavatica
07-30-2004, 10:53 PM
He's a bust. We should hold all Joe Borchard conversations here until he earns his spot on the Sox.

EDIT: I posted this Minor Observations, mods obviously don't have a sense of humor and moved it here.

LongLiveFisk
07-30-2004, 10:53 PM
:manos
"This time it's not ME! I love it! hahahahahaha"

Frank the Tank
07-30-2004, 10:55 PM
Surely you're not blaming this sad display of play on Ozzie Guillen, are you?

:rolleyes::dtroll::rolleyes:
Absolutely,

His failure to stick up for his player/teammate against Minnesota on the Burke/Hunter play pretty much sucked the wind out of the White Sox sails.

Cubbiesuck13
07-30-2004, 10:55 PM
Marte has turned into Mike Jackson


holy ****! trade him away!!!!!!!

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 10:56 PM
He's a bust. We should hold all Joe Borchard conversations here until he earns his spot on the Sox.
We'll give you an A+ for creativity. However don't quit your day job.

:cool:

Dick Allen
07-30-2004, 10:56 PM
All I can say is it's time for KW to back up the truck. 45 years and counting.

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:57 PM
Who will be our manager next year?
Lou Pinella

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:57 PM
Ozzie can only work with the cards he's been dealt. This is a no speed, station to station, all or nothing team.

Frankly if it weren't for him I shudder to think how far under .500 the Sox would be. Could you imagine the 'death watch,' if Manager Gandhi was still around?

As it is they still have two months to win another 30 games. Do that and you've got a 'winning' season, it's not much but it's better then nothing.

Lip

nasox
07-30-2004, 10:59 PM
What would you prefer, rifle, carbine, shotgun, arrow, cannonball, or lead slingshot load?

Surprise me. Waist or leg holster. Your choice.

Cubbiesuck13
07-30-2004, 11:00 PM
Ozzie can only work with the cards he's been dealt. This is a no speed, station to station, all or nothing team.

Frankly if it weren't for him I shudder to think how far under .500 the Sox would be. Could you imagine the 'death watch,' if Manager Gandhi was still around?

As it is they still have two months to win another 30 games. Do that and you've got a 'winning' season, it's not much but it's better then nothing.

Lip

some fans took the sox's slogan, everything has changed literally to include the player attributes.

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 11:00 PM
Absolutely,

His failure to stick up for his player/teammate against Minnesota on the Burke/Hunter play pretty much sucked the wind out of the White Sox sails.
Your point holds water if you subscribe to the belief that the 25 men on the White Sox roster are nothing but a bunch of whining, petulant *******.

Personally, I don't. These guys are well paid professionals, and if they let ONE PLAY dictate how they perform against a team like the Tigers, they're bigger chumps than even I give 'em credit for right now.

infohawk
07-30-2004, 11:02 PM
I really don't want to add to the pessimism, but facts are facts.

This is a good, however flawed, team with Frank and Maggs. Without them, the flaws become even more apparent. Over the past four years, the Sox have had the ability to score lots of runs thanks in large part to the homerun. Scoring runs in bunches masks the inability to play situational baseball. When the homeruns dried up, the Sox lost games. The result was a streaky team. Without Frank and Maggs as homerun threats in the line-up, the Sox must rely on situational baseball and aggressiveness. Nothing against the players, but they are just being asked to do something they don't do well. At this point, I don't really think one or two more trades by the deadline would really make that significant a difference outside of acquiring two pitchers of the caliber of
Randy Johnson.

This team is just composed of too many of the same kind of player. We've got to get away from the South Side Hitmen persona and build a versatile club with speed and contact hitters. I don't want to go into next year with just a tweak or two to the team. I want the Sox to play a different kind of baseball. Let's start with getting Ozzie the kind of players he really wants.

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:03 PM
I'm speechless...

duke of dorwood
07-30-2004, 11:03 PM
As pathetic as that was, it still had no effect on the outcome of the game.
He had another chance early in the game and flew out to left-

That have no effect too? Useless outs do count

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 11:04 PM
Your point holds water if you subscribe to the belief that the 25 men on the White Sox roster are nothing but a bunch of whining, petulant *******.

Personally, I don't. These guys are well paid professionals, and if they let ONE PLAY dictate how they perform against a team like the Tigers, they're bigger chumps than even I give 'em credit for right now.
Hell, if we're going to try and pin the source of the free-fall, it started with our first loss of this streak last Sunday when Ozzie got pissed off at Garland for nimbling, to which Garland shrugged and declared:

:jon
"That's the way I pitch."

We simply don't have enough bats to score enough runs to win. I don't blame Ozzie, and I don't blame KW either. I might blame Jon Garland a bit, but he is more a symptom rather than the cause of the team's problems.

Nard
07-30-2004, 11:04 PM
Yeah, I wish MJ would've put one in Torii's earhole. But it didn't happen. Move on already.

I guarantee the Hunter/Burke collision is the LAST thing on these guys' minds right now.

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:05 PM
What happens if starting tomorrow, we go on a 6 game winning streak?

CanadianSoxFan
07-30-2004, 11:06 PM
but I think this stretch has proven to me that this team has major flaws. It's time to take some of this team apart while we can and re-tool it (not rebuild). I think it would be best if we traded Paulie while his value is through the roof and get players who could really fill some holes (i.e. a top two hitter). I'm not blaming Paulie at all, I just think he'd fetch us some decent prospects. Secondly, it blows my mind that of all three of our middle infielders, none of them can hit left handed pitching. That's poor management in my opinion. Whenever we face a lefty, we basically have two spots in the order that are easy outs.

This sucks!:(:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:07 PM
I really don't want to add to the pessimism, but facts are facts.

This is a good, however flawed, team with Frank and Maggs. Without them, the flaws become even more apparent. Over the past four years, the Sox have had the ability to score lots of runs thanks in large part to the homerun. Scoring runs in bunches masks the inability to play situational baseball. When the homeruns dried up, the Sox lost games. The result was a streaky team. Without Frank and Maggs as homerun threats in the line-up, the Sox must rely on situational baseball and aggressiveness. Nothing against the players, but they are just being asked to do something they don't do well. At this point, I don't really think one or two more trades by the deadline would really make that significant a difference outside of acquiring two pitchers of the caliber of
Randy Johnson.

This team is just composed of too many of the same kind of player. We've got to get away from the South Side Hitmen persona and build a versatile club with speed and contact hitters. I don't want to go into next year with just a tweak or two to the team. I want the Sox to play a different kind of baseball. Let's start with getting Ozzie the kind of players he really wants.
This team needs a complete overhaul.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:07 PM
Well, I for one am tired of being optimistic. This season definitely isn't over yet but right now I have absolutely nothing to back these guys up with, I've tried to be optimistic but it's really hard right now.:whiner:

kcsportscaster
07-30-2004, 11:08 PM
What the hell else is new???? Coming from behind to tie the game only to blow it, that pile of garbage Borchard still in the freakin' lineup, and Everett getting banged up. Other teams either still in contention or in the case of the Mets, think they are still in contention but in reality are out of the race, are making deals, what about K-W, DAMN IT!!!! Back to Borchard, I WANT HIS SORRY ASS GONE NO LATER THAN THE START OF TOMORROW'S GAME, DAMN IT!!!!:angry: I don't care where, Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, or flat out cut, I want him freakin' gone!!!! Somebody in that clubhouse who gives a damn BEST have already done some "redecorating" in the visiting clubhouse at Comerica Park so that this team can freakin' wake up!!!! What's worse, if the Indians beat the Royals, they will only be a half game behind DA SOX. GET A WIN TOMORROW NIGHT, DAMN IT!!!!:angry:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:08 PM
He says he believes Sox will be a winner when they clean out the "inconsistent" hitters. Hood names Valentin, Crede, Thomas, and SAlomar.

I agree, launch this dead weight from the South Side and infuse new blood. I want KW to become "Trader Kenny."

Nard
07-30-2004, 11:09 PM
That's exactly what's gonna happen, South Side. It will all start with Burley-mon.

On a more pleasant note, let's take a look at the oddsmakers' take on the important AL central teams and their futures odds for winning the World Series:

18-1 White Sox
20-1 Twinkies
110-1 Jndjans

Unlike some of the regulars here, the oddmakers aren't a bunch of maniacal headcases with a bunch of expired Prozac prescriptions.

SomebodyToldMe
07-30-2004, 11:09 PM
Well, I for one am tired of being optimistic. This season definitely isn't over yet but right now I have absolutely nothing to back these guys up with, I've tried to be optimistic but it's really hard right now.:whiner:
sad thing is, i agree with you.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 11:10 PM
What the hell else is new???? Coming from behind to tie the game only to blow it, that pile of garbage Borchard still in the freakin' lineup, and Everett getting banged up. Other teams either still in contention or in the case of the Mets, think they are still in contention but in reality are out of the race, are making deals, what about K-W, DAMN IT!!!! Back to Borchard, I WANT HIS SORRY ASS GONE NO LATER THAN THE START OF TOMORROW'S GAME, DAMN IT!!!!:angry: I don't care where, Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, or flat out cut, I want him freakin' gone!!!! Somebody in that clubhouse who gives a damn BEST have already done some "redecorating" in the visiting clubhouse at Comerica Park so that this team can freakin' wake up!!!! What's worse, if the Indians beat the Royals, they will only be a half game behind DA SOX. GET A WIN TOMORROW NIGHT, DAMN IT!!!!:angry:
Isn't that the beauty of baseball? There is almost always another game to rant about tomorrow.

:)

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 11:10 PM
South Side:

If the Sox go on a six game winning streak starting tomorrow I'll gladly send you ten dollars. But right now the odds look more like they are going to have an eight game losing streak.

Lip

Terminated
07-30-2004, 11:12 PM
This team just isn't the same without Maggs and Frank. It shows you just why we need these guys in our starting lineup for the upcoming years.

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:12 PM
And knowing our luck, we could win six in a row and still be 4 out!

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:13 PM
South Side:

If the Sox go on a six game winning streak starting tomorrow I'll gladly send you ten dollars. But right now the odds look more like they are going to have an eight game losing streak.

Lip
I actually didn't say that to be annoyingly optimistic just to question whether or not if that did happen, would people still believe that the season is over and it's just a winning steak?

inta
07-30-2004, 11:13 PM
the sox can white flag it right now and i wouldn't care.
in fact i wish they would. get rid of all these losers and rebuild our farm system and get set for 2006/2007.

even if we win the pennant, this team isn't going anywhere in the playoffs.
we've seen this year after year, KW needs to face facts that this team just isn't a "grinder" team.

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:13 PM
This team just isn't the same without Maggs and Frank. It shows you just why we need these guys in our starting lineup for the upcoming years.
That is true, but we should't be losing six games in a row without them.

Nard
07-30-2004, 11:14 PM
What bad luck?

The Twinkies got killed and KC has a tying RISP with 1 out against Cleveland.

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:14 PM
And knowing our luck, we could win six in a row and still be 4 out!
Okay, that's getting a little too pessamistic. Let's stick to being negative about the things that are really happening!

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 11:14 PM
It's scary how bad this team is without Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Which reminds me, when was the last time the Sox had *both* Frank and Maggs in the starting lineup? Early-June?

:?:

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:15 PM
It's scary how bad this team is without Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Which reminds me, when was the last time the Sox had *both* Frank and Maggs in the starting lineup? Early-June?

:?:

Stop... it's too painful to think about.

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 11:16 PM
Absolutely,

His failure to stick up for his player/teammate against Minnesota on the Burke/Hunter play pretty much sucked the wind out of the White Sox sails.
Yup, Joe Borchard's inability to get his head out of his ass and hit a sac fly in the 8th was all due to Ozzie's failure as a manager to "protect" Jamie Burke.

On a sidenote, has anyone else stopped watching the games? I've been following the team on gamecast the last two days. I find that to be a little less stressful.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:17 PM
It's scary how bad this team is without Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Which reminds me, when was the last time the Sox had *both* Frank and Maggs in the starting lineup? Early-June?

:?:Late May I think. It's sucks to think about how good this team was with Frank and Maggs and how bad they are without them.:whiner:

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2004, 11:18 PM
This team needs a complete overhaul.
I was actually hoping KW would do this before the start of the season. I'm growing tired of the same guys who can't get the job done, a majority of which were here since 2001.

I'm all for blowing this thing up right now. I want an exciting ball club that plays hard and executes the fundamentals of the game. It's been a long time since Sox fans have seen tha kind of baseball.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying that, buit the frustration is really starting to set in.

Nard
07-30-2004, 11:18 PM
Win1 that works real well for me.

When I see the pretty words saying Marte is walking all those guys, it's like it's not really happening.

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:19 PM
I was actually hoping KW would do this before the start of the season. I'm growing tired of the same guys who can't get the job done, a majority of which were here since 2001.

I'm all for blowing this thing up right now. I want an exciting ball club that plays hard and executes the fundamentals of the game. It's been a long time since Sox fans have seen tha kind of baseball.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying that, buit the frustration is really starting to set in.
If we could just get one win... just to stop the bleeding...

StepsInSC
07-30-2004, 11:20 PM
That is true, but we should't be losing six games in a row without them.
I'm not so convinced of this. Remember before the season started, all the doom and gloom because of all the holes in the lineup? Harris, Valentin, Crede, CF, Uribe, pitching? Well the team began the season hot, and as Sox fans living up to our fickle nature, we deemed almost everyone a success...Garland, Uribe, Valentin, etc... Maybe now they're just playing like they're true selves. Plus I still believe Garcia is the only #1 pitcher we have, Buehrle is a #2. Garland had a good start but appears to be trailing. Loaiza has just been flat out mediocre.

Yea there are some bright spots...Takatsu, CLee and PK performing, ARow's bettter than expected play. I'm thoroughly convinced that Maggs and Frank were the glue holding the team together, and now its all falling apart. I'm sure they are the first two that others look towards, or at least I would guess that.

I'm not quite pessimistic, but its getting really hard to rationally be optimistic.

Nard
07-30-2004, 11:20 PM
KC's third base coach needs a Viagra prescription.

Tie game going to the 10th.

HomeFish
07-30-2004, 11:21 PM
AH WE WILL NEVER WIN AGAIN! I COMPLETELY DISAVOW ANY RELATIONS I EVER HAD WITH THE WHITE SOX! I HAVE WASTED MY LIFE!


:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
:

Welcome, brother.

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 11:24 PM
Win1 that works real well for me.

When I see the pretty words saying Marte is walking all those guys, it's like it's not really happening.
Consider the alternative: actually watching Marte walk those guys. Consider his stupid facial expressions, Ben Davis pleading for a strike behind the plate, Ozzie's expression in the dugout, and don't forget the commentary in the broadcast booth.

And be glad you don't see Crede or Borchard hit on a daily basis.

doublem23
07-30-2004, 11:24 PM
Welcome, brother.
Apparently the sarcasm wasn't evident enough.

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 11:24 PM
On a sidenote, has anyone else stopped watching the games? I've been following the team on gamecast the last two days. I find that to be a little less stressful. I've been taking a break since the Twins series, and I will likely keep taking a break until these losers realize that the season is still happening. In the meantime, I've got plenty of projects to work on, phone calls to make, e-mails to write, and meals to cook.

It's all good that way, I figure.

:gulp:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:25 PM
The ultimate solution to all our problems:

:selljerry

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 11:27 PM
Just to clarify PHG's point, the Sox were 29-20 going into their June 1st game with Oakland. Maggs at this point still had a 'strained calf muscle' according to the medics and had only missed a few games so I think that's a pretty good demarcation point.


Lip

vegyrex
07-30-2004, 11:28 PM
I for one refuse to give up hope.

Not yet :redface:


But the fat lady's agent is looking to book her at the Cell. :redneck

cubhater77
07-30-2004, 11:29 PM
dump loiza and garland while we're at it.

RKMeibalane
07-30-2004, 11:35 PM
But it's typical of the way most of the Sox hitters approach their at bats. They just don't seem to have any plan even if it's 'guessing' on a pitch in a particular spot.

They seem clueless, which helps explain the numerous streaks where the offense disappears.

Lip
I have to wonder if Frank Thomas is only Sox hitter who bothers to read the scouting reports on opposing pitchers. I'm reminded of something that happened during one of last season's games, specifically, the game in which Frank provided all of the team's offense in a 4-2 victory.

Jarod Washburn took a no-hitter into the seventh inning. Roberto Alomar broke up the no-no with a slap single to right. Thomas came to the plate. Washburn threw him several inside pitches. Rather than swing at the inside pitch and jam himself, Frank waited for him to make a mistake over the heart of th plate. Washburn did, and Thomas drilled it into the right-center field seats.

Prior to the Thomas home run, it seemed as though every Sox hitter was just going to the plate swinging at anything in the same zip code, hoping to make contact. Even in Frank's earlier at-bats during that particular game, he seemed to have a better idea of what he wanted to do than anyone else. Why is this? Is Frank that much better when it comes to figuring pitchers out? Or is it because he's the only one who bothers to do his homework?

nasox
07-30-2004, 11:38 PM
I have to wonder if Frank Thomas is only Sox hitter who bothers to read the scouting reports on opposing pitchers. I'm reminded of something that happened during one of last season's games, specifically, the game in which Frank provided all of the team's offense in a 4-2 victory.

Jarod Washburn took a no-hitter into the seventh inning. Roberto Alomar broke up the no-no with a slap single to right. Thomas came to the plate. Washburn threw him several inside pitches. Rather than swing at the inside pitch and jam himself, Frank waited for him to make a mistake over the heart of th plate. Washburn did, and Thomas drilled it into the right-center field seats.

Prior to the Thomas home run, it seemed as though every Sox hitter was just going to the plate swinging at anything in the same zip code, hoping to make contact. Even in Frank's earlier at-bats during that particular game, he seemed to have a better idea of what he wanted to do than anyone else. Why is this? Is Frank that much better when it comes to figuring pitchers out? Or is it because he's the only one who bothers to do his homework?
Because Frank is a very talented hitter.

South Side
07-30-2004, 11:38 PM
I have to wonder if Frank Thomas is only Sox hitter who bothers to read the scouting reports on opposing pitchers. I'm reminded of something that happened during one of last season's games, specifically, the game in which Frank provided all of the team's offense in a 4-2 victory.

Jarod Washburn took a no-hitter into the seventh inning. Roberto Alomar broke up the no-no with a slap single to right. Thomas came to the plate. Washburn threw him several inside pitches. Rather than swing at the inside pitch and jam himself, Frank waited for him to make a mistake over the heart of th plate. Washburn did, and Thomas drilled it into the right-center field seats.

Prior to the Thomas home run, it seemed as though every Sox hitter was just going to the plate swinging at anything in the same zip code, hoping to make contact. Even in Frank's earlier at-bats during that particular game, he seemed to have a better idea of what he wanted to do than anyone else. Why is this? Is Frank that much better when it comes to figuring pitchers out? Or is it because he's the only one who bothers to do his homework?


Did anyone else just tear up reading that realizing just how great Frank is. I miss him, I really miss him. :whiner:

soxwon
07-30-2004, 11:39 PM
still only 4 out have faith

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 11:44 PM
Soxwon:

I don't know...maybe. Maybe the 'easy' schedule will still come into play... right now that's about all that the Sox might have going for them.

I'd like to think they still can...maybe.

Lip

chisoxfan79
07-30-2004, 11:44 PM
but I think this stretch has proven to me that this team has major flaws. It's time to take some of this team apart while we can and re-tool it (not rebuild). I think it would be best if we traded Paulie while his value is through the roof and get players who could really fill some holes (i.e. a top two hitter). I'm not blaming Paulie at all, I just think he'd fetch us some decent prospects. Secondly, it blows my mind that of all three of our middle infielders, none of them can hit left handed pitching. That's poor management in my opinion. Whenever we face a lefty, we basically have two spots in the order that are easy outs.

This sucks!:(: I have said this before I doubt the D rays would do it Carlos Lee for Carl Crawford.:supernana: :bandance:

JB98
07-30-2004, 11:45 PM
Yup, Joe Borchard's inability to get his head out of his ass and hit a sac fly in the 8th was all due to Ozzie's failure as a manager to "protect" Jamie Burke.

On a sidenote, has anyone else stopped watching the games? I've been following the team on gamecast the last two days. I find that to be a little less stressful.

I'm with you, dude. I work at night, and although I have a TV right next to my desk, I turned the game off after Young homered in the first inning. I just can't do my job competently when the Sox are doing everything in their power to totally destroy my life. I actually won $1 from a co-worker tonight, who was foolish enough to bet me when I guaranteed a Sox loss.

nasox
07-30-2004, 11:46 PM
:tomatoaward:

milrtyme28
07-30-2004, 11:47 PM
:(: Man is this frustrating - I have to stop watching the games for a few days. There isnt much stuff left to break in the living room. This is twice this season that I've watched the winning run be walked in. ( The first time was from the left field bleachers at wrigley field on the 4th of july. )

This team just seems so flat lately - I actually think jose yawned during his at bat in the ninth. Oh well. The timing for this really sucks - and it especially sucks watching this team fall to pieces while the cubs are getting healthy and getting hot. :whiner:

Viva Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:47 PM
J. Hood: "Joe Crede couldn't hold Robin Ventura's jock." Amen.

chisoxfan79
07-30-2004, 11:47 PM
KC's third base coach needs a Viagra prescription.

Tie game going to the 10th. WOW now we have to scoreboard watch with Cleveland.

Jurr
07-30-2004, 11:49 PM
I'M SO GLAD THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THE LACK OF SELF SCOUTING!!!!

Uribe...he's getting pitched with benders over the plate or high fastballs. He's popping up underneath everything, and he's flying out every time to second, short center, or shortstop. Every f***ing time. I was actually happy the other day when he grounded out to third.

Jose....he's been trying to turn on everything, and I've seen him chop 20 grounders to second in the past 3 weeks. I was getting very excited when he hit two homers to opposite field the week of the Minnesota sweep (the won we ended up winning...way back when)..

Paulie....benders inside and down or fastballs out over the outer half...nobody's coming in anymore, and he's not adjusting.

Carlos....outer half...and he's still chasing. They need to realize that without Maggs and Frank, the boppers have no protection and won't be pitched to, so those outer half pitches should be left alone.

We have nobody who can drive a ball to the opposite field at all. Great Job, Greg Walker!
Everybody sucks.

SomebodyToldMe
07-30-2004, 11:50 PM
J. Hood: "Joe Crede couldn't hold Robin Ventura's jock." Amen.
no post ventura thirdbasemen can.

EXCEPT FOR SNOPEK!

cheeses_h_rice
07-30-2004, 11:51 PM
One would like to think that in 2 months, the Sox could make up 4-5 games, but right now, the way they're playing, things just look really, really shaky. They're getting decent pitching, but man that offense is sucking it UP.

JB98
07-30-2004, 11:56 PM
Did anyone else just tear up reading that realizing just how great Frank is. I miss him, I really miss him. :whiner:

I've always said Frank wouldn't be fully appreciated until after he retired. Well, now that he's out for an extended period due to injury, maybe people are starting to realize his greatness and importance to the team. I am only 28 years old, but he is the most talented hitter I have ever seen. I could live another 50 years as a Sox fan, and I sorta doubt I'll see another one like him on the South Side. I miss him terribly too.

infohawk
07-30-2004, 11:57 PM
This team just isn't the same without Maggs and Frank. It shows you just why we need these guys in our starting lineup for the upcoming years.I will agree that the Sox should keep Frank to anchor the middle of the line-up if we can continue to hold on to him for around $5-8 million per year. I love Magglio, but if the Sox dedicate $12-14 million a year toward keeping him, I fear they will have the same problems we have witnessed over the last four years. The Sox are going to need to change the nature of the club through some free agent acquisitions and perhaps a trade or two. Particularly some pitching and speed. Like I stated in my earlier thread, I don't want to enter 2005 having just augmented the existing core of the team. The Sox have done that every year for the past four years and it's just not working.

This offseason presents a prime opportunity to remove a significant amount of salary off the books and retool on the fly. If I were the GM, I would begin by considering the following players as my new "core."

Pitchers
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jon Garland (would be the 5th starter)
Damaso Marte
Shingo Takatsu

Infielders
Konerko
Harris (Possibly a reserve)
Uribe (Possibly a reserve)
Crede

Outfielders
Lee
Rowand
Everett

DH
Frank Thomas

I wouldn't trade Konerko and Lee for salary purposes alone. I probably wouldn't trade both of them and would prefer to keep Lee. Crede is a tough call because I like his defense and he's cheap. If he could be packaged to get something the Sox really, really need I would consider trading him. In acquiring any position players through trades or free agency, I would err on the side of the best .OBP that is affordable.

I would use the money from not re-signing Maggs, Loaiza and Valentin to acquire two solid starters. Several good pitchers will become free agents. Ideally, I would love to have a couple of guys like Radke and Clement.

Keep in mind that offers would be entertained for all players except the pitchers I have listed.

What would you guys do?

South Side
07-31-2004, 12:12 AM
I will agree that the Sox should keep Frank to anchor the middle of the line-up if we can continue to hold on to him for around $5-8 million per year. I love Magglio, but if the Sox dedicate $12-14 million a year toward keeping him, I fear they will have the same problems we have witnessed over the last four years. The Sox are going to need to change the nature of the club through some free agent acquisitions and perhaps a trade or two. Particularly some pitching and speed. Like I stated in my earlier thread, I don't want to enter 2005 having just augmented the existing core of the team. The Sox have done that every year for the past four years and it's just not working.

This offseason presents a prime opportunity to remove a significant amount of salary off the books and retool on the fly. If I were the GM, I would begin by considering the following players as my new "core."

Pitchers
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jon Garland (would be the 5th starter)
Damaso Marte
Shingo Takatsu

Infielders
Konerko
Harris (Possibly a reserve)
Uribe (Possibly a reserve)
Crede

Outfielders
Lee
Rowand
Everett

DH
Frank Thomas

I wouldn't trade Konerko and Lee for salary purposes alone. I probably wouldn't trade both of them and would prefer to keep Lee. Crede is a tough call because I like his defense and he's cheap. If he could be packaged to get something the Sox really, really need I would consider trading him. In acquiring any position players through trades or free agency, I would err on the side of the best .OBP that is affordable.

I would use the money from not re-signing Maggs, Loaiza and Valentin to acquire two solid starters. Several good pitchers will become free agents. Ideally, I would love to have a couple of guys like Radke and Clement.

Keep in mind that offers would be entertained for all players except the pitchers I have listed.

What would you guys do?
But with Maggs and Frank both healthy at the same time, we were playing GOOD. So, we really don't know where we would have ended up with this core had everyone stayed healthy... things could have been remarkably different... so much so that you wouldn't even think about changing the core only making a few minor changes. I think we all see how powerful Maggs and Frank are.

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 12:13 AM
Pitchers
Mark Buehrle
Freddy Garcia
Jon Garland (would be the 5th starter)
Damaso Marte
Shingo Takatsu

Infielders
Konerko
Harris (Possibly a reserve)
Uribe (Possibly a reserve)
Crede

Outfielders
Lee
Rowand
Everett

DH
Frank ThomasWow, that's a pretty big core. I was thinking more along the lines of: Garcia, Buehrle, Thomas, Shingo, and Marte. Everyone else is available if it can improve the team (not that I would necessarily trade both, Lee and Konerko, but I would take offers to see what's out there).

In the off-season I would see whether or not the Dodgers had any interest in acquring Carlos Lee + Garland FOR Izturis + prospects. I'd then take that money and sign Frank Cattalanotto for <$3M a year. So you'd be replacing Lee ($8M) and Valentin ($5 M) with productive players making around $3 M total. You can then combine those savings with those on Garland (probably around $4M in arb.) and get a good starting pitcher (Pavano? Perez? Clement? Pedro?) plus fill in other holes. Getting Jerry Hairston Jr. *right now* wouldn't be bad either. Most importantly, I'd spend some money on a great-good 3B FA (Glaus/Beltre/Randa) and ship Joe Crede the hell out of town.

Wealz
07-31-2004, 12:24 AM
It's scary how bad this team is without Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Which reminds me, when was the last time the Sox had *both* Frank and Maggs in the starting lineup? Early-June?

:?:
Scary bad is right. It's been so long without Ordonez and Thomas that any lineup that doesn't feature Uribe and/or Alomar actually looks good to me.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 12:32 AM
It's scary how bad this team is without Frank and Maggs in the lineup.

Which reminds me, when was the last time the Sox had *both* Frank and Maggs in the starting lineup? Early-June?

:?:
May 25th vs. Texas.

LASOXFAN
07-31-2004, 12:33 AM
you have no idea (or maybe you do) how good it feels to come to this website and read so much ranting and raving. So glad others feel the same: This season is a wash. We've seen these guys take it sweet before and they're doing it again. I'm done investing the emotional energy of pulling for losers. I love the Sox, the franchise, and always will. But with few exceptions, this a talentless bunch. And for that, there's only one person to blame: KW.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 12:34 AM
Scary bad is right. It's been so long without Ordonez and Thomas that any lineup that doesn't feature Uribe and/or Alomar actually looks good to me.
What's even scarier is that we may never see Frank and Maggs in the same lineup again.

OEO Magglio
07-31-2004, 12:34 AM
you have no idea (or maybe you do) how good it feels to come to this website and read so much ranting and raving. So glad others feel the same: This season is a wash. We've seen these guys take it sweet before and they're doing it again. I'm done investing the emotional energy of pulling for losers. I love the Sox, the franchise, and always will. But with few exceptions, this a talentless bunch. And for that, there's only one person to blame: KW.:rolleyes:

Randar68
07-31-2004, 12:37 AM
you have no idea (or maybe you do) how good it feels to come to this website and read so much ranting and raving. So glad others feel the same: This season is a wash. We've seen these guys take it sweet before and they're doing it again. I'm done investing the emotional energy of pulling for losers. I love the Sox, the franchise, and always will. But with few exceptions, this a talentless bunch. And for that, there's only one person to blame: KW.LOL, missing a HOF'er and your best OF'er / perennial All-Star had nothing to do with it, LOL!...

:whoflungpoo

gosox41
07-31-2004, 12:54 AM
What's even scarier is that we may never see Frank and Maggs in the same lineup again.
Maybe at an All Star game.:)


Bob

RKMeibalane
07-31-2004, 12:57 AM
Maybe at an All Star game.:)


Bob
That would require keeping the Yankees out of the World Series first.

Jurr
07-31-2004, 01:00 AM
What really sucks is that we're going to possibly lose maggs for the season, not re-sign him, and pretty much lose him with nothing in return....and all of that while we're getting our asses kicked not having him in our lineup.

Brian26
07-31-2004, 01:10 AM
I've been taking a break since the Twins series, and I will likely keep taking a break until these losers realize that the season is still happening. In the meantime, I've got plenty of projects to work on, phone calls to make, e-mails to write, and meals to cook.

It's all good that way, I figure.

:gulp:
Spoken like a true bandwagon fan. Hell, its even spoken like a true Cubs fan.

MisterB
07-31-2004, 01:10 AM
It pains me no end to do this, but I believe an update is in order.

Just when you thought it was safe to go beck to the Cell.....

Brian26
07-31-2004, 01:13 AM
J. Hood: "Joe Crede couldn't hold Robin Ventura's jock." Amen.
Wow, he really went out on a limb on that one. We all know and love Robin as our best 3rd baseman since the early 70's. Let's move on....

flo-B-flo
07-31-2004, 01:14 AM
holy ****! trade him away!!!!!!! Your signature is bull****. There is no such verse in the Qu'ran. I saw that e-mail too.:rolleyes:

Brian26
07-31-2004, 01:16 AM
What really sucks is that we're going to possibly lose maggs for the season, not re-sign him, and pretty much lose him with nothing in return....and all of that while we're getting our asses kicked not having him in our lineup.
We will get some nice draft picks since he's in the best class of free agents.

oeo
07-31-2004, 01:21 AM
I am officially not watching any White Sox baseball until they win at least one game...it is absolutely ridiculous watching this team. Maybe this is for my good anyway, I won't get an ulcer, or become depressed and maybe my breaking things will come to an end. This has been one terrible week.

flo-B-flo
07-31-2004, 01:37 AM
I will be watching tommorrow after I come back from getting my ass kicked golfing. I am a baseball fan and a Sox masochist. Do you realize how hard it is for me to admit that the c--- AND the Twins are better TEAMS than my team? Everyone in here has the right to bitch and moan and even quit. But I just can't. I love this franchise. I figure if I didn't shoot myself in the late 60's early 70's, this to will pass. I realize I am a Sox idiot and there is no cure. Plus I love the game ( and softball) I played for almost 40 years every single summer until retiring in '02. It pains me to watch the current dive but, I MUST play out the string. Pray for me.:smile: :gulp:

oeo
07-31-2004, 01:43 AM
I will be watching tommorrow after I come back from getting my ass kicked golfing. I am a baseball fan and a Sox masochist. Do you realize how hard it is for me to admit that the c--- AND the Twins are better TEAMS than my team? Everyone in here has the right to bitch and moan and even quit. But I just can't. I love this franchise. I figure if I didn't shoot myself in the late 60's early 70's, this to will pass. I realize I am a Sox idiot and there is no cure. Plus I love the game ( and softball) I played for almost 40 years every single summer until retiring in '02. It pains me to watch the current dive but, I MUST play out the string. Pray for me.:smile: :gulp: I'm not quiting on the team..I just can't take another heart-breaking loss. It's killing me everytime this team loses because they're not playing like they should be. It is totally ridiculous to watch them play right now because they aren't doing anything right, although they have gotten a LITTLE better the last couple of games.

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 01:59 AM
Is it too early to say that Joe Borchard is one of the most overrated prospects EVER. This team sucks right now. Oh well at least the twins lost. But by this time tomorrow night we might and probably will be in sole possession of 3rd place. Remember about a week ago when the sox were 1/2 up on the twins and 6 ahead of the injuns? What a ****ty week. And if detroit keeps beating our ass we will finish 4th

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 02:01 AM
I've always said Frank wouldn't be fully appreciated until after he retired. Well, now that he's out for an extended period due to injury, maybe people are starting to realize his greatness and importance to the team. I am only 28 years old, but he is the most talented hitter I have ever seen. I could live another 50 years as a Sox fan, and I sorta doubt I'll see another one like him on the South Side. I miss him terribly too.
While they do miss frank, they have everett to replace him sort of. Maggs is being replaced by the timo/i cant hit ML pitching to save my life borchard. Maggs is definitely missed more. But this team is going nowhere with either one of them gone

A. Cavatica
07-31-2004, 02:17 AM
Wow, that's a pretty big core. I was thinking more along the lines of: Garcia, Buehrle, Thomas, Shingo, and Marte. Everyone else is available if it can improve the team (not that I would necessarily trade both, Lee and Konerko, but I would take offers to see what's out there).
Shingo's not going to play forever, and I think Marte had his career year last year.

I'd keep Garcia and Buehrle, and I'd also keep Garland, because he's still young, and he's better than a #5 starter. Thomas is the only hitter on this team who deserves to be a core player.

JB98
07-31-2004, 02:30 AM
While they do miss frank, they have everett to replace him sort of. Maggs is being replaced by the timo/i cant hit ML pitching to save my life borchard. Maggs is definitely missed more. But this team is going nowhere with either one of them gone
I could flip that argument around, though, and say that Everett sort of replaces Maggs and the worthless combination of Timo and LTP is replacing Frank. We miss both of them, no question, but I think Frank is still among the five most feared hitters in the league. His presence in the lineup changes the way everyone else on the team is pitched to. Maggs is an outstanding hitter in his own right, but I don't think I'd say the same for him.

IA_soxfan
07-31-2004, 03:14 AM
What happens if starting tomorrow, we go on a 6 game winning streak?
Judging by the way the season has gone so far...the twins will reel of 6 in a row as well. Sooooo...when is the first bears game of the year.

idseer
07-31-2004, 08:34 AM
We will get some nice draft picks since he's in the best class of free agents.
the cost for anyone to sign magglio really will take on a lot more risk, won't it? it not just the gamble of his health but also losing good draft picks to whoever does take the chance. i'm doubting anyone at all is going to want to take that chance (for the money he'll be looking for) ... unless, of course, he manages to come back strong before this season ends. but then, i've read speculation that he won't play again this year because he'll be afraid to rush his recovery. but if he doesn't, who's going to trust he can still play at all?
i'm thinking it's looking more and more like he may still be with us next year, even if it's just a one year deal.

i suppose he could play winter ball somewhere to prove he's allright, but i'm not sure that would carry the same weight.

it will be very interesting to see what happens.

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 10:35 AM
Spoken like a true bandwagon fan. Hell, its even spoken like a true Cubs fan.
Brian, there's a difference between not caring (bandwagon/Cub fan) and not watching the team because it causes too much stress. The night after Wednesday's Minnesota game, I felt like crap (physically) and couldn't so much as concentrate on doing anything else. Part of that is obviously my fault in taking the Sox so seriously. I'd hate to think how I would feel after watching Jose's costly error on Thursday, or the efforts of Borchard and Crede with the bases loaded yesterday.

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 10:39 AM
Shingo's not going to play forever, and I think Marte had his career year last year.

I'd keep Garcia and Buehrle, and I'd also keep Garland, because he's still young, and he's better than a #5 starter. Thomas is the only hitter on this team who deserves to be a core player.
Garland will get $4-5 M in arbitration next year. No way would I pay that for a 5th starter.

Hangar18
07-31-2004, 11:26 AM
I just havnt been into these Bozo's since they let themselves get SWEPT
by the cubs. Theyve been listless, lazy, clueless and just plain bad. They
cant Bunt, Cant move runners up, cant take the extra base, drop balls,
throw wild pitches at inopportune times, walk too many people. Its
hard to like this team when they are just plain garbage right now. Yes,
we have KEY injuries. But some of the problems were problems they REFUSED
to acknowledge in the offseason. They Rolled the Dice hoping people would
have career years, never taking into account that injuries could play a role.
Well, Uncle Jerry Rolled the Dice ........ and up came snake-eyes. Again.
and again. and again. and again. do this for 20something years ....
and its easy to just be tired of Reinsdorf

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:28 AM
Garland will get $4-5 M in arbitration next year. No way would I pay that for a 5th starter.
Based on what?

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 11:31 AM
Based on what?
Based on the notion that just about all players going from their 5th to 6th year receive significant raises in arbitration.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:33 AM
Based on the notion that just about all players going from their 5th to 6th year receive significant raises in arbitration.
Yes, but normally those guys take a significant leap in terms of production too. Garland so far hasn't.

It's based on numbers and salaries of comparable players. Garland is pitching like a #4-5 starter and that is what he will get paid as...

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 11:38 AM
Yes, but normally those guys take a significant leap in terms of production too. Garland so far hasn't.
That's not true. Jarrod Washburn followed his great 2002 season with a so-so 2003. He still received a $2 M increase in arbitration. So production decreased while salary increased.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:41 AM
That's not true. Jarrod Washburn followed his great 2002 season with a so-so 2003. He still received a $2 M increase in arbitration. So production decreased while salary increased.
And Garland has never had a season remotely close to Washburn's 2002 season. Hence he has nothing to point back at and say, "Look, I'm a star." The numbers just don't bear it out.

Win1ForMe
07-31-2004, 11:46 AM
And Garland has never had a season remotely close to Washburn's 2002 season. Hence he has nothing to point back at and say, "Look, I'm a star." The numbers just don't bear it out.
Maybe, but someone gave him $2.3 M this year (and that's a pretty large sum for 1st year arbitration) despite never having a winning record in his career. He's on pace to throw 225 innings, and has a good 1.32 WHIP, which are numbers he can point out to get his money.

voodoochile
07-31-2004, 11:48 AM
Maybe, but someone gave him $2.3 M this year (and that's a pretty large sum for 1st year arbitration) despite never having a winning record in his career. He's on pace to throw 225 innings, and has a good 1.32 WHIP, which are numbers he can point out to get his money.
My bet is it never gets that far, but if it does, I think JG is in for a rude awakening.

Mark
07-31-2004, 12:07 PM
Ozzie said he thought the Sox needed to win 12 of their 19 games this season against the Tigers to contend in the Central. Looks like that plan is taking a detour. :o:

OurBitchinMinny
07-31-2004, 01:57 PM
Garland has not been that bad. Id say he is the #3 starter (which could be part of the problem). Loaiza just sucks at life right now. He is the clear #5. SS has pitched better of late, but has had no offense and terrible defense behind him. I thought garland would be an ace by this point in his career. I was wrong and he never will be, but he keeps them in games