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View Full Version : Does any trade really help?


Jurr
07-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I believe that a trade involving Carlos Beltran would be huge, and even adding a guy like Cliff Floyd would be a welcome addition. I doubt either is going to happen. So, we're looking at adding a fringe guy like Jerry Hairston Jr, or so I'm hearing. Nothing is going to replace the losses of Maggs and Frank. Nothing. We know that. Now, take away those two guys from this lineup, and do we have a team that can honestly contend? There are too many ifs. For instance, if Joe Borchard came up roses and pulled his game together, then we would have a decent sub for Maggs. If Willie and Juan got things going again, then yes, we would have a prayer. But, those are too many ifs.
Not having two of the pieces your team was built around hurts badly. Would the Cards be contenders without Pujols and Rolen gone? That would allow teams to pitch around Edmonds and Renteria, and that's a tough thing to overcome. It sucks. All of the excuses are there for this team to pack it in, but I'm hoping they don't.
I'm the most optimistic guy in the world, and everyone on this site knows that I'm that guy. But, in a nutshell, here's how this season boils down:

If the Sox, with the guys that they have, can't up their collective games and do this within themselves, then no players are going to come in and help that out. Period. I believe we have the pitching. I believe we have enough pop with PK, Lee, Everett, and Valentin to still be somewhat dangerous.
THESE GUYS THAT ARE HERE RIGHT NOW HAVE TO DO THIS TOGETHER, OR THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. NOBODY IS GOING TO HELP THEM.
This team is on a five game losing streak, and God knows we need to win tonight. But, the bottom line is that this team is not going to do what we ulitmately want, which is win a world series, with this lineup unless they collectively decide to quit whimpering around and kick some ass. Let's hope they decide to.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 09:09 PM
Gee I would have thought a lineup comprised of Frank, Maggs, Konerko, Lee, Everett, and Floyd matched up with a starting 3 of Buehrle, Garcia, and Loaiza, plus Shingo closing, might give us reason for optimism next October.

My mistake...

:violin:

Jurr
07-30-2004, 09:15 PM
I agree. NEXT October. It could be THIS October if these guys can hold the fort for the next 6-8 weeks or so. That's a LOT of baseball. I don't think one guy is going to make that big a difference unless the entire team gets together and decides to do something.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 09:22 PM
I agree. NEXT October. It could be THIS October if these guys can hold the fort for the next 6-8 weeks or so. That's a LOT of baseball. I don't think one guy is going to make that big a difference unless the entire team gets together and decides to do something.
Now I'm confused. Was the point of your original post that even if the Sox got lucky they would fall flat on their face in the postseason? Isn't that what you meant when you wrote:
But, the bottom line is that this team is not going to do what we ulitmately want, which is win a world series, with this lineup unless they collectively decide to quit whimpering around and kick some ass.
Or were you telling us they were going to fall flat on their face before the postseason? If so, why mention the World Series in the first place?

:?:

Cubbiesuck13
07-30-2004, 09:25 PM
they don't need a big bat they need a big on base player so if they pick up someone like that then yes a trade will help. Trading for Floyd-no help

duke of dorwood
07-30-2004, 09:28 PM
Go back to the Winter-when all we got was Uribe

That's what you are seeing now.

Trade no more prospects for help this year. We will not overcome FRank & Maggs-

TRade Harris-now I'm for that

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 09:42 PM
Only one solution...

http://www.wulleseite.de/myiSketchPics/White_Flag.gifPart II

Honestly, let's see what we can get for some of our guys (Loaiza, Valentin, Konerko?, even Crede). This team needs a new core, might as well get an early start. Grab what you can and prepare for free agency in the off-season.

metallicat35
07-30-2004, 09:44 PM
I agree whole heartedly. This team even if we were lucky enough to turn it around is not a World Series contender

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 09:50 PM
Go back to the Winter-when all we got was Uribe
Ever heard of that Shingo guy, or how about Politte.

DickAllen72
07-30-2004, 09:54 PM
Maybe we can trade Valentin to a team that needs a hitting shortstop for a decent pitcher or a high prospect.

Cubbiesuck13
07-30-2004, 09:56 PM
Maybe we can trade Valentin to a team that needs a hitting shortstop for a decent pitcher or a high prospect.
i don't want to help the cubs

Dolanski
07-30-2004, 09:56 PM
All I can say is this totally sucks. There aren't any big bats really available, and it seems we don't have the prospects to pull off a blockbuster. Makes you wonder, what if Maggs and Frank were healthy? I know people have been on the other players to step it up, but come on, you lose your two biggest bats, (around 80 hrs and 250 RBIs over a season), its gonna hurt. Our scary lineup is now average and pedestrian. Can't be helped. The only way this season turns around is Carlos Beltran and the Astros are even more delusional than the Cubs...

South Side
07-30-2004, 09:56 PM
Only one solution...

http://www.wulleseite.de/myiSketchPics/White_Flag.gifPart II

Honestly, let's see what we can get for some of our guys (Loaiza, Valentin, Konerko?, even Crede). This team needs a new core, might as well get an early start. Grab what you can and prepare for free agency in the off-season.
This is disgusting...

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:02 PM
South Side:

About as disgusting as this club's performance this season even when they were healthy. They didn't exactly run away with things the first three months did they?

I admire your 'optimism' but those of us who are a little older and have followed the Sox for decades, gave up believing in miracles a long, long time ago.

I agree with Duke in this sense, the time to build your team is in the off season, you just tweak it at the deadline. Perhaps the Sox drawing over two million this season will change the organization's philosophy.

It'll be interesting to say the least with Ordonez, Loazia, Schowenweis, Thomas and Valentin as free agents or potential free agents if they choose to do so.

DickAllen72
07-30-2004, 10:19 PM
South Side:


It'll be interesting to say the least with Ordonez, Loazia, Schowenweis, Thomas and Valentin as free agents or potential free agents if they choose to do so.

Valentin and Loaiza should be traded before tomorrow's trade deadline. A contender who needs pitching or one who needs a shortstop would probably overpay for them right now, and neither one fits in with our plans for next year anyway.

StepsInSC
07-30-2004, 10:24 PM
Valentin and Loaiza should be traded before tomorrow's trade deadline. A contender who needs pitching or one who needs a shortstop would probably overpay for them right now, and neither one fits in with our plans for next year anyway.
Do you think KW has any plans for next year?

I'm sure he's under the impression that if he doesn't win this year, he won't be back.

We're still only 4 games out...as bad as we've been playing, that's do-able.

Jurr
07-30-2004, 10:28 PM
I like the idea of trading Valentin and Loaiza. That's a good start. This team reminds me of the Miami Dolphins.....good for a run every year. Finishes above .500 every year, but doesn't have that slump where they can take up all kinds of talent to harvest. Back in 1997 when we waved the White Flag, we got a bunch of prospects that ended up panning out. They all ended up helping us win the division. Hawk made a great point tonight. When you're a "contender", you're always going to be unable to give a young kid the constant playing time he needs to mature and become a stud. It actually hinders a guy.

WITH MAGGS AND FRANK HEALTHY, WE'RE A CONTENDER.
This is an extremely true statement, but it's not the reality we face. It's going to piss off a lot of people, but I think we need to infuse some young talent onto this roster and let them have a chance to flourish without the burden of immediate expectation. Keep some of the core players that have talent, such as Buehrle, Garcia, Shingo, Marte, Lee, Crede, Borchard, and Rowand, and let the other guys go and bring in a ton of top tier young talent. It is a sacrifice of the now for the benefit of the later.

JB98
07-30-2004, 10:30 PM
Valentin and Loaiza should be traded before tomorrow's trade deadline. A contender who needs pitching or one who needs a shortstop would probably overpay for them right now, and neither one fits in with our plans for next year anyway.

You're head is in the clouds if you think anyone is going to overpay for Valentin or Loaiza. Scouts have seen Loaiza pitch. He isn't the solution for the Sox, so why would he be the solution for some other team? Maybe you could get a mid-level prospect for Valentin, but it's not going to happen and I'm not sure that it should. I don't think white-flagging is the solution. Our attendance was just starting to pick up. Granted, it will taper off if the team continues to slide. However, the excitement surrounding the Sox this summer has been higher than it has been in a long, long time. Why would you want to kill it by throwing in the towel now? I know it's very difficult to stay positive right now. I don't expect to make the playoffs this year either, but we have to ride this all the way out to the very end and see what happens.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 10:31 PM
Even if the Sox fall apart and finish fourth, Kenny Williams will be back next year as G.M.

I'm curious where you got that conclusion Steps?

Lip

DickAllen72
07-30-2004, 10:35 PM
We're still only 4 games out...as bad as we've been playing, that's do-able.

Yes, and it's certainly doable without Valentin and Loaiza.

DickAllen72
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
You're head is in the clouds if you think anyone is going to overpay for Valentin or Loaiza.

If we can get a decent pitching prospect for Valentin, that's overpaying and I can think of a team that needs a shortstop that would probably do it.

Loaiza might be considered as a viable fifth starter by a team that needs pitching.

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 10:41 PM
Yes, and it's certainly doable without Valentin and Loaiza.
That may be a good point as well. Jose is hitting .128 in July. Loaiza has followed his superb 5.35 June ERA with 6.89 July ERA. Come to think of it, who the hell would want these guys?
:(:

JB98
07-30-2004, 10:49 PM
That may be a good point as well. Jose is hitting .128 in July. Loaiza has followed his superb 5.35 June ERA with 6.89 July ERA. Come to think of it, who the hell would want these guys?
:(:

My point exactly. They aren't really tradeable.

Jurr
07-30-2004, 10:52 PM
I'm not going to flat out diss KW. If this team was healthy (and if not, then why in God's name couldn't Crede and Valentin be hurt?) we'd be a contender. NO doubt. Lee, Konerko, and the rest would actually get plate protection, the pitchers wouldn't feel like they had to be perfect, and we would be great.

DickAllen72
07-31-2004, 04:10 PM
My point exactly. They aren't really tradeable.

Loaiza untradeable, huh?

Told you so!
:bandance: