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lowesox
07-30-2004, 01:00 PM
The three catcher thing is stupid. I think if Ozzie really wants to play small ball, we should be bringing up somebody who can do the little things and spark the offence. Right now we have three catchers on our team and none of them are particularly good.

Also: the Mike Jackson thing has gone on far too long. Wunsch is off the DL now. (He earned a save the other night.) Why not call him up? Or surely a reliever in the minors like Bajenaru could make a difference too.

Why are we wasting these spots? This team simply isn't talented or motivated enough right now to be giving anything away.

Wealz
07-30-2004, 01:07 PM
Not a fan of the three catcher thing, but Guillen could do a better job of deploying it. It's unconventional, but he should treat the catcher's position the way the N.L. treats the pitcher's spot in the lineup. If the Sox are trailing in the fourth inning or later he should at least consider pinch-hitting if the catcher leads off an inning or comes up with men on base.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 01:10 PM
If the Sox are trailing in the fourth inning or later he should at least consider pinch-hitting if the catcher leads off an inning or comes up with men on base.
But Davis just hit a homerun on the last game against the Twins...

habibharu
07-30-2004, 01:12 PM
i believe the biggest waste of a roster spot is borchard! you have to either play this guy every single day, or send him to down. there is no benefit to the team or him in playing him twice a week!

ma-gaga
07-30-2004, 01:20 PM
Not a fan of the three catcher thing, but Guillen could do a better job of deploying it. It's unconventional, but he should treat the catcher's position the way the N.L. treats the pitcher's spot in the lineup. If the Sox are trailing in the fourth inning or later he should at least consider pinch-hitting if the catcher leads off an inning or comes up with men on base.
I never understood the 3 catcher dilema either unless one of them could hit good enough to occasionally get a start at DH/1B.

If you have one good offensive catcher and one good defensive catcher that should be all you need... But I like Wealz's NL proposal, because typically catchers CAN'T hit.

juanuribe
07-30-2004, 01:26 PM
The three catcher thing is stupid. I think if Ozzie really wants to play small ball, we should be bringing up somebody who can do the little things and spark the offence. Right now we have three catchers on our team and none of them are particularly good.

Also: the Mike Jackson thing has gone on far too long. Wunsch is off the DL now. (He earned a save the other night.) Why not call him up? Or surely a reliever in the minors like Bajenaru could make a difference too.

Why are we wasting these spots? This team simply isn't talented or motivated enough right now to be giving anything away.Mike Jackson
Joe Borchard
Ben Davis

I wish THEY were GAWN, but I'm not sure how much these guys effect the mental makeup of the team, and I question how different the team would be if they weren't on the roster. Maybe the a better question would be, whose presence adversely affects the team the most???

soxtalker
07-30-2004, 01:56 PM
IIRC Burke and Davis have actually done ok during this losing streak. Why focus on this position right now? It isn't anywhere close to our major problem (though it could turn into one). I understand that it takes away some flexibility; it might be better, for example, if one of the other players could be a back-up catcher. But it doesn't seem that they really want to let any of these guys go (each for a different reason).

Huisj
07-30-2004, 03:20 PM
It seems like there's gotta be someone at AAA who can come up and do a better job than Jackson. Are our minor league pitchers all so bad that not one of them can come up and post a 5 ERA in middle relief? Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was "yes, they are all that bad" with the current state of the farm system.

BigEdWalsh
07-30-2004, 03:29 PM
A couple of things have gone on way too long this season and all contribute in my humble opinion of why we aren't currently in 1st place.

1. Koch. I wanted Shingo to have the closer role way before he got it.

2. 5th starter. All those ridiculous Wright, Diaz, Munoz, Rauch (am I forgetting anyone) starts were very costly.

3. Mike Jackson. Should have been given his unconditional release back in May.

4. 3 catchers. No need or should I say there were more important needs.

Cubbiesuck13
07-30-2004, 08:18 PM
The three catcher thing is stupid. I think if Ozzie really wants to play small ball, we should be bringing up somebody who can do the little things and spark the offence. Right now we have three catchers on our team and none of them are particularly good.

Also: the Mike Jackson thing has gone on far too long. Wunsch is off the DL now. (He earned a save the other night.) Why not call him up? Or surely a reliever in the minors like Bajenaru could make a difference too.

Why are we wasting these spots? This team simply isn't talented or motivated enough right now to be giving anything away.

small ball by the catcher burke: bunt hit in the top of the 6th on july 30.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2004, 08:23 PM
Wasted roster spots:

Jackson, Borchard, Cotts, Adkins, Davis. That's a fifth of the roster.

Let's face it if the Sox somehow snuck into the post season would you have any confidence in those three pitchers?

and Cotts started one game in the 5th starter rotation.

Lip

gosox41
07-30-2004, 11:43 PM
The three catcher thing is stupid. I think if Ozzie really wants to play small ball, we should be bringing up somebody who can do the little things and spark the offence. Right now we have three catchers on our team and none of them are particularly good.

Also: the Mike Jackson thing has gone on far too long. Wunsch is off the DL now. (He earned a save the other night.) Why not call him up? Or surely a reliever in the minors like Bajenaru could make a difference too.

Why are we wasting these spots? This team simply isn't talented or motivated enough right now to be giving anything away.
I made mention how stupid it was to have 3 catchers back when Magglio first went on the DL and the Sox still had Olivo. And I was personally insulted for it.

I see no reason to weaken a bench by taking an already bad hitter (Gload/Perez take your pick) and platooning them in the OF and then taking a career minor leaguer in Burke and a career bust in Ben Davis to go along with a geriatric Sandy Alomar JR and on any given night need to rely on 2 of them to come off the bench and pinch hit.

Boy those 3 catchers are really paying off. All that clutch hitting they provide for us. And don't forget the stellar defense. And don't forget how many games this year the Sox lost because they didn't have that key third catcher in the late innings and all we had was passed balls.




Bob

SoxFan76
07-31-2004, 12:04 AM
As painful as it would be, part of me just wants a fresh start to this team. They need a new philosophy. Ozzie is a good start, but these players can't play the kind of baseball Ozzie wants to play. Keep Frank, Garcia, Buerhle, Garland, Carlos, and Shingo. That is a nice core group of players. I'm a big fan of Crede still, so keep him there too. People forget that Crede has only been in the bigs 2 full seasons. I've seen flashes of brilliance from Garland this year. I think very soon he can pull it together and start stringing a few of those brilliant starts together. I really like Rowand too. I don't know why I don't include him. It's not like there have ever been arguments over Rowand.

Start a whole new drafting philosophy. No more right handed home run hitters. Get some leadoff men. Not one, but a few of them. Get some more versatile players. Aaron Rowand type players. They can hit, play defense, throw, run, basically a poor mans 5-tool player. 5-tool players are great, but they come at a price. Carlos Lee and Aaron Rowand are guys I really like on the team. They have their faults, but both can be productive at the plate and they can run.

Maggs is gone, we all know it. Willie might be good down the road, but he's been looking pretty bad at the plate. I like Uribe, but he has been pretty disappointing. Valentin is old, but I am still one of his biggest fans. Catcher, well no explanation needed.

I know, I know. The sky is falling. But watching the Twins play baseball opened my eyes. They know how to play the game of baseball. This White Sox team doesn't.

Ok, I'm done. Now start telling me how crazy I am and how I should lighten up. I needed to get that off my chest. I've been Mr. Optimism all year, and I've had it.

oeo
07-31-2004, 12:09 AM
What I don't understand is why Mr. Ben Davis came to bat in the ninth with one out already...why not put in Gload who can pinch hit well, or Sandy who can come through with some big hits. Ben Davis sucks and he shouldn't be getting his chance to play when we need to get a comeback victory in the ninth.

pearso66
07-31-2004, 12:26 AM
Gload had already pinch hit, so he wasnt an option

BainesHOF
07-31-2004, 01:33 AM
Three catchers have handcuffed us all year. Burke is our best catcher by far these days. Alomar is done and Davis can't hit. At least Davis is healthy and has a small chance to drive the ball. Bye bye, Alomar.

Next year it should be Burke and a new catcher behind the plate, and that's it.

JB98
07-31-2004, 01:52 AM
Three catchers have handcuffed us all year. Burke is our best catcher by far these days. Alomar is done and Davis can't hit. At least Davis is healthy and has a small chance to drive the ball. Bye bye, Alomar.

Next year it should be Burke and a new catcher behind the plate, and that's it.
Burke is actually doing a good job. He threw out a few runners on the last homestand, including a big one with the score tied in the eighth inning Wednesday vs. the Twins. That same game, he had a big hit to place runners at first and third with one out in the ninth. Unfortunately, LTP screwed it up, and we know the rest.

Borchard, Davis, Jackson, Harris: We are wasting those four roster spots.

mealfred13
07-31-2004, 02:02 AM
As painful as it would be, part of me just wants a fresh start to this team. They need a new philosophy. Ozzie is a good start, but these players can't play the kind of baseball Ozzie wants to play. Keep Frank, Garcia, Buerhle, Garland, Carlos, and Shingo. That is a nice core group of players. I'm a big fan of Crede still, so keep him there too. People forget that Crede has only been in the bigs 2 full seasons. I've seen flashes of brilliance from Garland this year. I think very soon he can pull it together and start stringing a few of those brilliant starts together. I really like Rowand too. I don't know why I don't include him. It's not like there have ever been arguments over Rowand.

Start a whole new drafting philosophy. No more right handed home run hitters. Get some leadoff men. Not one, but a few of them. Get some more versatile players. Aaron Rowand type players. They can hit, play defense, throw, run, basically a poor mans 5-tool player. 5-tool players are great, but they come at a price. Carlos Lee and Aaron Rowand are guys I really like on the team. They have their faults, but both can be productive at the plate and they can run.

Maggs is gone, we all know it. Willie might be good down the road, but he's been looking pretty bad at the plate. I like Uribe, but he has been pretty disappointing. Valentin is old, but I am still one of his biggest fans. Catcher, well no explanation needed.

I know, I know. The sky is falling. But watching the Twins play baseball opened my eyes. They know how to play the game of baseball. This White Sox team doesn't.

Ok, I'm done. Now start telling me how crazy I am and how I should lighten up. I needed to get that off my chest. I've been Mr. Optimism all year, and I've had it.
I made a similar post on another thread, and I have to say I pretty much agree with you. It seems like our team is the worst team in baseball, as far as fundamentals are concerened, with the exception of a few players here and there who actually know what they are doing.

I'd love to see some REAL ozzieball, which we haven't seen more than once or twice this year, with lots of guys who can get on base, and guys who can spray hits all over the field back to back to back to back.....etc. If that means selling half the team, so be it.

I'm the biggest sox fan out there, and it dissappoints me to see all the fair-weather fans here, popping out of the woodwork left and right about how they're not watching the Sox anymore until they start winning...blah blah blah! I watch when they lose, I watch when they win, I watch WHILE they're losing, and I watch when they suck. At this point, I'm sick of seeing them lose, and I don't care who has to be dumped in order to get some guys who can play small ball like the Angels did a few years ago. It's about time to step away from the slugging mentality, as it's obvious it hasn't worked and it won't work in the long run.