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JDP
07-30-2004, 09:55 AM
The Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38198121)

According to rumors out of Pittsburgh and New York on Thursday night, the White Sox are going to acquire Mets outfielder Cliff Floyd in a three-way trade today, although Jim Duquette denied he was shopping Floyd.

The Pirates also would be involved, and they'd get third baseman Ty Wiggington and minor-league pitcher Matt Peterson from the Mets in exchange for starting pitcher Kris Benson.

The White Sox would send a minor-league prospect, believed to be Class A Winston-Salem outfielder Ryan Sweeney, to Pittsburgh.

CHI_SOX_4_LIFE
07-30-2004, 09:58 AM
what do floyd's stats look like? is he lefty or righty?

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 09:59 AM
The Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38198121)

According to rumors out of Pittsburgh and New York on Thursday night, the White Sox are going to acquire Mets outfielder Cliff Floyd in a three-way trade today, although Jim Duquette denied he was shopping Floyd.

The Pirates also would be involved, and they'd get third baseman Ty Wiggington and minor-league pitcher Matt Peterson from the Mets in exchange for starting pitcher Kris Benson.

The White Sox would send a minor-league prospect, believed to be Class A Winston-Salem outfielder Ryan Sweeney, to Pittsburgh.
After this year and last, I think we know who will be tough in the NL Central within the next few years.

JDP
07-30-2004, 10:03 AM
what do floyd's stats look like? is he lefty or righty?
Cliff Floyd is left-handed. He's hitting .278 with 13 HRs, 46 RBIs and an OBP of 0.855 thus far this year [in 255 AB]. A career .285 hitter in 12 seasons riddled with injuries, his best season was in 2001 when he played in 149 games, batted .317 with 31 HRs, 103 RBIs and an OBP of .968.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:09 AM
Cliff Floyd is left-handed. He's hitting .278 with 13 HRs, 46 RBIs and an OBP of 0.855 thus far this year [in 255 AB]. A career .285 hitter in 12 seasons riddled with injuries, his best season was in 2001 when he played in 149 games, batted .317 with 31 HRs, 103 RBIs and an OBP of .968.
You sure that last year wasn't his best season? Didn't he lead the league in RBIs?

Brian26
07-30-2004, 10:11 AM
Wow, interesting move. A couple of years ago, this would have been HUGE. Cliff Floyd could be a nice upgrade in right.

infohawk
07-30-2004, 10:15 AM
Cliff Floyd is left-handed. He's hitting .278 with 13 HRs, 46 RBIs and an OBP of 0.855 thus far this year [in 255 AB]. A career .285 hitter in 12 seasons riddled with injuries, his best season was in 2001 when he played in 149 games, batted .317 with 31 HRs, 103 RBIs and an OBP of .968.
I think you mean OPS instead of OBP. :D:

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:17 AM
This has been covered already in another thread...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37991&page=4&pp=15

Post #59 and beyond.

LASOXFAN
07-30-2004, 10:21 AM
does anyone realize how good Sweeny is going to be?

my god, KW is like a crack head jonzing for another hit. Stop chasing it! Without Frank and Mags this season is a wash, do NOT trade away the future for a season that is going NO WHERE. It's just a bad break that we lost our two best hitters. The Sox have to suck it up, it's part of the game. But for the love of god, don't trade a top pick. Please.

ndgt10
07-30-2004, 10:24 AM
does anyone realize how good Sweeny is going to be?

my god, KW is like a crack head jonzing for another hit. Stop chasing it! Without Frank and Mags this season is a wash, do NOT trade away the future for a season that is going NO WHERE. It's just a bad break that we lost our two best hitters. The Sox have to suck it up, it's part of the game. But for the love of god, don't trade a top pick. Please.
I subscribe to the theory that you need to live every day like it will be your last. Thus, I have no problem trading a 19 year old who is hitting .281 in high A ball.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:25 AM
Ryan Sweeney was our 2nd Round pick in 2003, 52nd overall. Brian Anderson was our 1st Round pick in 2003, 15th overall...

http://mlbsl.fragism.com/2003draftpicks.htm

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 10:26 AM
does anyone realize how good Sweeny is going to be?

my god, KW is like a crack head jonzing for another hit. Stop chasing it! Without Frank and Mags this season is a wash, do NOT trade away the future for a season that is going NO WHERE. It's just a bad break that we lost our two best hitters. The Sox have to suck it up, it's part of the game. But for the love (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=10,28012355,whitesoxinteractive .com,0) of god, don't trade a top pick. Please.Forget the future right now. I don't really want to see Ryan go either but if it means getting a huge upgrade in rightfield to make this offense more consistant and bring a division title here, well then see you later sweeney. I'm tired of waiting for the future, the division is there to win go out and win the darn thing.

SoxxoS
07-30-2004, 10:26 AM
If we trade Sweeney for Cliff Floyd...

Actually, there is no way KW does this. This is even over the KW limit.

Chek2002
07-30-2004, 10:28 AM
Trade Borchard over Sweeney. Sweeney has a lot more up side.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:28 AM
You know what else everyone has failed to mention - perhaps because it is so painfully obvious.


Attaining Floyd just about locks up and throws the key away on putting Ordonez in a trunk and sending him packing.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:29 AM
If we trade Sweeney for Cliff Floyd...

Actually, there is no way KW does this. This is even over the KW limit.Just pray that we are getting Kendall from the Pirates as well and that they are picking up a large sum of his contract. Just wishful thinking I guess.
You know what else everyone has failed to mention - perhaps because it is so painfully obvious.


Attaining Floyd just about locks up and throws the key away on putting Ordonez in a trunk and sending him packing.Agreed. Floyd is under contract for $6.5 million this season, 2005, and 2006. Although, some people are saying that Maggs' injury could be career-threatening. :o:

1917
07-30-2004, 10:34 AM
Can we get a better source then the Daily Herald...nothing from the Trib, Times, Score, ESPN...but the Daily Herald get wind of this? I've heard about the Benson block, but not the Floyd talk....I got mixed emotions on this guy's...I like blocking the Twins, but is Floyd worth Sweeney? He may retire next year......Hey I give Kenny a BIG E for effort

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:37 AM
Agreed. Floyd is under contract for $6.5 million this season, 2005, and 2006. Although, some people are saying that Maggs' injury could be career-threatening. :o:
I know that I will get attacked for this, but I am so freaking ticked at that Harris collision when I read something like this, but I am also ticked at Guillen for throwing Harris all around the field causing him to lose the focus one gains from playing one position all the time. :angry: :angry: :angry:

calderon
07-30-2004, 10:38 AM
this team does not need another RBI/power man, we need tablesetters, we need guys who can go 1st to 3rd on a base hit, we need guys who can hit and run. If we continue to build this team with the same types of hitters up and down the lineup, we will have season like we have had the past 3 years. The team as it stands now needs to be lown up, keep a few of the power guys, and fill in the rest.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:38 AM
Can we get a better source then the Daily Herald...nothing from the Trib, Times, Score, ESPN...but the Daily Herald get wind of this? I've heard about the Benson block, but not the Floyd talk....I got mixed emotions on this guy's...I like blocking the Twins, but is Floyd worth Sweeney? He may retire next year......Hey I give Kenny a BIG E for efforthttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1849004
Met life for Benson?
Just when it seemed safe to pencil Kris Benson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6167) into that Twins rotation, the Pirates pulled a quick U-turn (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1847790) July 29 and appeared set to send Benson to the Mets. The Pirates, according to people familiar with the deal, would get Ty Wigginton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6930), right-handed pitching prospect Matt Peterson and another prospect, who could come from a third team (believed to be the White Sox). No one saw the Mets coming this week, because they seemed to have turned away from short-term solutions (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1849004) as they fell out of the NL East race. But sources said their plan is not just to rent Benson, but to make a quick rush to sign him long-term before he can hit the free-agent shelves.
ESPN doesn't say anything about Cliff Floyd like the Daily Southtown does. It was also mentioned on Baseball Tonight last night. They said it could be a 3-way deal (Pirates, Mets, White Sox).

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:46 AM
You should make a sig file that has KW and call it Krazy Kenny's Back Door Blow Out special.

"You need prospects? We've got 'em. Come one. Come all!"

:smile:

I am not ripping him for trying to do something, but I'll be Schueler is just rubbing his eyes right now in disbelief.

SoxxoS
07-30-2004, 10:48 AM
I am a KW advocate, as most know, but I wouldn't be touching Sweeney, Honel, B-Mac or Anderson. Take whoever else. Not them. The list isn't a great one, but if we aren't getting a young stud (ala Brian Giles last year) then trading any of the 5 above doesn't make a lot of sense.

Champs2004
07-30-2004, 10:54 AM
Honestly, if Floyd is the one that we get i this deal, he would be a good addition, and not only that, he would be playing in his own backyard. He is also a Chicago native.

LASOXFAN
07-30-2004, 10:59 AM
Forget the future right now. I don't really want to see Ryan go either but if it means getting a huge upgrade in rightfield to make this offense more consistant and bring a division title here, well then see you later sweeney. I'm tired of waiting for the future, the division is there to win go out and win the darn thing.
Under any other circumstances I would agree with you 100%. I'm not trying to sound like a negative tool when I say this, but the season was lost when Mags and Frank went down. Both of them is just too much to recover from. Sometimes you have to take your medicine, and this, IMO, is one of those times. If even one of them was healthy I'd be backing KW on any trades to make us better NOW. Frankly, I'd rather see him make some trades to make us better next year. Sucks saying that.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 11:03 AM
Under any other circumstances I would agree with you 100%. I'm not trying to sound like a negative tool when I say this, but the season was lost when Mags and Frank went down. Both of them is just too much to recover from. Sometimes you have to take your medicine, and this, IMO, is one of those times. If even one of them was healthy I'd be backing KW on any trades to make us better NOW. Frankly, I'd rather see him make some trades to make us better next year. Sucks saying that.
You know. I'll buy into this - not so much because we lost both Hurt and Mags, but moreso because we gutted our Farm system over the last three years to get here. Garcia was not a 'win next year or the year after that' kind of pickup. Garcia was a 'let's go right now' move.

ChiSoxBobette
07-30-2004, 11:03 AM
The Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38198121)

According to rumors out of Pittsburgh and New York on Thursday night, the White Sox are going to acquire Mets outfielder Cliff Floyd in a three-way trade today, although Jim Duquette denied he was shopping Floyd.

The Pirates also would be involved, and they'd get third baseman Ty Wiggington and minor-league pitcher Matt Peterson from the Mets in exchange for starting pitcher Kris Benson.

The White Sox would send a minor-league prospect, believed to be Class A Winston-Salem outfielder Ryan Sweeney, to Pittsburgh.
Have'nt we thrown away enough young players now for this season. Does anyone really think that getting Cliff Floyd & before getting back Carl Everett is going to be enough to make up for Frank Thomas & Magglio Ordonez. Whatever future we had with these young ballplayers is gone and the well is drying up rapidly , does'nt anyone care about next year, 2006,2007 etc... We won't even be able to compete for 3rd place at the rate we're trading away minor league players who we have'nt even given a shot at making our team. If KW keeps this up the next 5 to 7 years are going to be very hard to watch. KW just let this season play out the way its going to and then lets think about next year. We could delve into the free-agent market and probably replace Maggs, pickup another starter & before the end of this season package garland , loiaza & valentin for some prospects to bolster our minor league system. We'll need to do those things to stay competetive within our division for the next couple of years especially with the way the indians & tigers have rebuilt thier teams. We're mortgaging the future of the White Sox on this season but without Maggs & Frank how far can this team go, just let it play out with what we have.

LASOXFAN
07-30-2004, 11:06 AM
Have'nt we thrown away enough young players now for this season. Does anyone really think that getting Cliff Floyd & before getting back Carl Everett is going to be enough to make up for Frank Thomas & Magglio Ordonez. Whatever future we had with these young ballplayers is gone and the well is drying up rapidly , does'nt anyone care about next year, 2006,2007 etc... We won't even be able to compete for 3rd place at the rate we're trading away minor league players who we have'nt even given a shot at making our team. If KW keeps this up the next 5 to 7 years are going to be very hard to watch. KW just let this season play out the way its going to and then lets think about next year. We could delve into the free-agent market and probably replace Maggs, pickup another starter & before the end of this season package garland , loiaza & valentin for some prospects to bolster our minor league system. We'll need to do those things to stay competetive within our division for the next couple of years especially with the way the indians & tigers have rebuilt thier teams. We're mortgaging the future of the White Sox on this season but without Maggs & Frank how far can this team go, just let it play out with what we have.
it's hard to know when to let go, but a good GM has to know that better than anyone.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 11:08 AM
You should make a sig file that has KW and call it Krazy Kenny's Back Door Blow Out special.

"You need prospects? We've got 'em. Come one. Come all!"

:smile:

I am not ripping him for trying to do something, but I'll be Schueler is just rubbing his eyes right now in disbelief.That would be sweet. I may just do that. :wink:

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 11:11 AM
Whatever future we had with these young ballplayers is gone and the well is drying up rapidly , does'nt anyone care about next year, 2006,2007 etc... We won't even be able to compete for 3rd place at the rate we're trading away minor league players who we have'nt even given a shot at making our team.
If there's one thing that I've learned about baseball, even if we dry the well now, every team, every year, no matter how bad, has one or two guys that contenders will pay a BIG price for.

So we dry the well this year and give it a shot. I'm starting to think we should.

If we fail this year, KW starts selling guys like Konerko and Garcia and Lee to who ever can give him the best prospects.

I mean look at what a guy like Benson is commanding at this point. Surely we can get really good prospects next year if we fail this year. It's all a cycle.

Dolanski
07-30-2004, 11:12 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2611108

Three-way for Benson?

The Pirates, unable to cut a satisfactory deal for righthander Kris Benson, talked about involving a third team to enhance the package they would receive, according to major-league sources.

One possibility under consideration involved the White Sox and Mets, who have offered third baseman Ty Wigginton and Class AA lefthander Matt Peterson for Benson.

The White Sox would have added a prospect for the Pirates and received a player from either the Pirates or Mets.

The Pirates, however, were not interested in the White Sox's prospects.

Meanwhile, the Pirates have reached an impasse with the Twins in their talks about Benson, and the Mets' offer is less than enticing. The Angels retain interest in Benson, as do the Braves.

No team is willing to give up top prospects for a two-month rental of Benson, who has a reputation for being "soft" and has never pitched in a pennant race. The Braves might be a good fit sense because Benson is a Georgia native who could thrive upon returning home, the same way that right fielder J.D. Drew has for Atlanta.



I posted this in another thread, but it applies here. Apparently, we don't have anything the Pirates want...

1917
07-30-2004, 11:22 AM
This really doesn't make too much sense for the Mets, they are 3 games below .500 and 7.5 out of the wild card...My bet is that it doesn't happen.

the_valenstache
07-30-2004, 11:29 AM
Honestly, if Floyd is the one that we get i this deal, he would be a good addition, and not only that, he would be playing in his own backyard. He is also a Chicago native.
He was a hell of a basketball player when he was coming up in high school as well. I've always rooted for Floyd throughout his MLB career - I think he'd be a good pick-up, although a part of me really wants Catallanato or Kendall or Hairston Jr. At this point, I think versatillity is the key. A guy like Catallanato has a lot of upsides; we need another Graffinino (but with a better bat.)

lowesox
07-30-2004, 11:29 AM
Just wanted to go on the record that if Kenny trades Sweeney for Floyd he should be fired on the spot.

Actually, I don't think it would be a bad move to just fire him on the spot regardless.

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2004, 11:30 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2611108

Three-way for Benson?

The Pirates, unable to cut a satisfactory deal for righthander Kris Benson, talked about involving a third team to enhance the package they would receive, according to major-league sources.

One possibility under consideration involved the White Sox and Mets, who have offered third baseman Ty Wigginton and Class AA lefthander Matt Peterson for Benson.

The White Sox would have added a prospect for the Pirates and received a player from either the Pirates or Mets.

The Pirates, however, were not interested in the White Sox's prospects.

Meanwhile, the Pirates have reached an impasse with the Twins in their talks about Benson, and the Mets' offer is less than enticing. The Angels retain interest in Benson, as do the Braves.

No team is willing to give up top prospects for a two-month rental of Benson, who has a reputation for being "soft" and has never pitched in a pennant race. The Braves might be a good fit sense because Benson is a Georgia native who could thrive upon returning home, the same way that right fielder J.D. Drew has for Atlanta.



I posted this in another thread, but it applies here. Apparently, we don't have anything the Pirates want...


If that is truly the case then I think everyone here needs to relax and take a deep breath because surely the Pirates would be interested in Sweeney if he was offered.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 11:31 AM
This really doesn't make too much sense for the Mets, they are 3 games below .500 and 7.5 out of the wild card...My bet is that it doesn't happen.
See, I disagree. The Mets are thinking to 2005. If Benson goes to Atlanta, they will have a shot at resigning him before the end of the season - as will the Mets if they grab him. They move Floyd because the direction has been to get pitching and guys that can play the OF like Cameron. Leiter, Benson and Glavine are not a horrible first three.

balboner
07-30-2004, 11:35 AM
Anyone that thinks Floyd can play RF is crazy. He's already one of the worst LF in MLB. He has no arm, and no range. Also, he's very injury prone and his desire seems to lack often. If this happens, I hope KW loses his job.

cbrownson13
07-30-2004, 11:41 AM
Here's a little info on Floyd...

"Shopping Cliff Floyd got a little tougher for the Mets after the veteran outfielder spoke candidly to the media about his sore right Achilles' tendon and his desire to retire at age 33, the New York Daily News reports. Floyd's four year, $26 million contract expires in 2006. 'I've thought about it,' Floyd said of a trade request. 'I'll do what's best for myself and the team I'm on. It's becoming a damn grind'."

That from ESPN Insider.

I don't like the idea of aquiring a guy that could easily aggrevate an injury and join Maggs and Frank on the DL.

Also if this guy wants to retire when he's 33, well he'll be 33 in December, what does that mean for next year.

I just went from slightly pessimisstic about this deal to extremely pessimisstic about this deal. It seems there are too many risks and Floyd has his own agenda.

Huisj
07-30-2004, 11:41 AM
the sox are going to turn in to the orioles of the late 90s. They're getting older and older with a bunch of mediocre guys, and those guys will all just kind of deteriorate and turn into crap and then be gone. and they will have no farm system and they will be horrible for a few years. It's going to be rebuilding from nothing. Rebuilding with no prospects at all. I'm worried.

lowesox
07-30-2004, 11:47 AM
the sox are going to turn in to the orioles of the late 90s. They're getting older and older with a bunch of mediocre guys, and those guys will all just kind of deteriorate and turn into crap and then be gone. and they will have no farm system and they will be horrible for a few years. It's going to be rebuilding from nothing. Rebuilding with no prospects at all. I'm worried.
I think this is post of the week material.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:52 AM
Just wanted to go on the record that if Kenny trades Sweeney for Floyd he should be fired on the spot.

Actually, I don't think it would be a bad move to just fire him on the spot regardless.:rolleyes:

LASOXFAN
07-30-2004, 11:55 AM
the sox are going to turn in to the orioles of the late 90s. They're getting older and older with a bunch of mediocre guys, and those guys will all just kind of deteriorate and turn into crap and then be gone. and they will have no farm system and they will be horrible for a few years. It's going to be rebuilding from nothing. Rebuilding with no prospects at all. I'm worried.
here here. and then you start over paying for FA's. It's an ugly cycle.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:58 AM
the sox are going to turn in to the orioles of the late 90s. They're getting older and older with a bunch of mediocre guys, and those guys will all just kind of deteriorate and turn into crap and then be gone. and they will have no farm system and they will be horrible for a few years. It's going to be rebuilding from nothing. Rebuilding with no prospects at all. I'm worried.Not gonna happen. Next year the sox will be right back in the race, kenny will probably do what he does go out and make a deal to get the team better by trading a couple prospects that won't amount to anything and then people will whine again that we have no future, blah blah blah.

Flight #24
07-30-2004, 12:04 PM
the sox are going to turn in to the orioles of the late 90s. They're getting older and older with a bunch of mediocre guys, and those guys will all just kind of deteriorate and turn into crap and then be gone. and they will have no farm system and they will be horrible for a few years. It's going to be rebuilding from nothing. Rebuilding with no prospects at all. I'm worried.
I don't know about that. I wouldn't consider a starting point of Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, Rowand, Crede, Lee (for 2 years), Anderson, Diaz, Marte, Shingo to be nothing.

I do think the team will struggle for a year or 2, but that with a couple of smart FA pickups and a couple of high picks in the next 2 years, we can position ourselves to keep the core vets we have, fill in with cheap vets, and hopefully add a couple of REAL top prospects to the ML squad in 2-3 years. The key is to keep the starting pitchers and add a stud youngster to the rotation, then fill in the O with Rowand, Anderson, etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see Paulie stay at a reasonable salary. He just seems like a guy that loves the city & team and won't want to break the bank. Of course, I thought that about Maggs a year or 2 ago, and he's turned out to be the opposite.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 12:08 PM
I don't know about that. I wouldn't consider a starting point of Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, Rowand, Crede, Lee (for 2 years), Anderson, Diaz, Marte, Shingo to be nothing.

I do think the team will struggle for a year or 2, but that with a couple of smart FA pickups and a couple of high picks in the next 2 years, we can position ourselves to keep the core vets we have, fill in with cheap vets, and hopefully add a couple of REAL top prospects to the ML squad in 2-3 years. The key is to keep the starting pitchers and add a stud youngster to the rotation, then fill in the O with Rowand, Anderson, etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised to see Paulie stay at a reasonable salary. He just seems like a guy that loves the city & team and won't want to break the bank (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=399,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1). Of course, I thought that about Maggs a year or 2 ago, and he's turned out to be the opposite.When do you think this team is going to struggle, next year? I highly doubt it, if the sox add a solid number 3 starter next year they'll have a very solid pitching staff, with a good offense, and also a pretty good bullpen. Everyone seems to be panicking about the future but for the next couple of years this team is in pretty good shape, imo. But I guess we can always worry about what's going to happen 5 years down the road.:rolleyes:

Flight #24
07-30-2004, 12:20 PM
When do you think this team is going to struggle, next year? I highly doubt it, if the sox add a solid number 3 starter next year they'll have a very solid pitching staff, with a good offense, and also a pretty good bullpen. Everyone seems to be panicking about the future but for the next couple of years this team is in pretty good shape, imo. But I guess we can always worry about what's going to happen 5 years down the road.:rolleyes:
I have 2 big concerns that are a bit contradictory:
1) that attendance will fall from here on out, limiting any payroll increases and financial flexibiltiy to retool

2) that we'll take on more longterm contracts for "less than ideal" players with the same effect

If we have a $5-10mil increase in payroll (goes to pay Garcia), and the savings from Maggs & ELo (Koch/Valentin savings go to general raises & arb awards), I think we'll be in good shape. Focus on SP & RP. Clement would look awesome and likely leave a few mil to get a solid RH reliever. Maybe in the offseason you can trade a Cotts for a Hairston or someone like that to add some OBP in the Middle IF and top of the order.

Like you say, with another solid pitcher and some tweaking on O to increase OBP, we'll be fine with Frank back. And after next year, we should see Anderson and be close to seeing Field & that catcher we drafted.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 12:27 PM
I have 2 big concerns that are a bit contradictory:
1) that attendance will fall from here on out, limiting any payroll increases and financial flexibiltiy to retool

2) that we'll take on more longterm contracts for "less than ideal" players with the same effect

If we have a $5-10mil increase in payroll (goes to pay Garcia), and the savings from Maggs & ELo (Koch/Valentin savings go to general raises & arb awards), I think we'll be in good shape. Focus on SP & RP. Clement would look awesome and likely leave a few mil to get a solid RH reliever. Maybe in the offseason you can trade a Cotts for a Hairston or someone like that to add some OBP in the Middle IF and top of the order.

Like you say, with another solid pitcher and some tweaking on O to increase OBP, we'll be fine with Frank back. And after next year, we should see Anderson and be close to seeing Field & that catcher we drafted.I'm sure we'll see some of Anderson next year, I don't think we'll see Fields until '06 and same with Lucy. I think next year some people are going to be surprised at how all of the sudden the sox have some pretty darn good prospects. Because Winston Salem and Kannapolis are loaded with good prospects.

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2004, 12:30 PM
I have 2 big concerns that are a bit contradictory:
1) that attendance will fall from here on out, limiting any payroll increases and financial flexibiltiy to retool




I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at the amount of tickets that have been sold for the remainder of the season. Declinging attendance will not be an issue.

Flight #24
07-30-2004, 12:40 PM
I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at the amount of tickets that have been sold for the remainder of the season. Declinging attendance will not be an issue.
If we can maintain a 10-15% attendance increase (and we're hopefully close to there already given that we were past 5% before the break), then I'd say we're in good shape. that should translate to $8-10mil in payroll, which pays for Garcia. Assorted raises & Everett's $4mil add up to Magglio's $$$, leaving the savings from Koch, Valentin, & ELo (total of $15mil) to add pitching, some MIF help, & a solid C. That's doable. In my ideal world, we go get a Matt Clement or equivalent (not sure who's available) at $6-8mil, add a veteran reliever at $3mil, and a C at $2-3mil. That leaves a couple of mil left to play with and try to find a decent MIF with OBP who can lead off, or you can trade a Uribe/Cotts/Crede/Harris for a Hairston type and use the $$$ to pay for a replacement for whoever we traded. That's a much more balanced team and is still VERY competitive with the Twins or Indians for the division next eyar, especially with the return of Frank.

Foulke You
07-30-2004, 12:40 PM
Keep in mind that this deal could kill two birds with one stone. I really, REALLY, like the idea of blocking the Benson to the Twins trade. This is what good teams do. Look at the Red Sox and Yankees. They are always playing a game of chess to try and out do the other one. The Sox need to start looking at the Twins like the Yankees and if giving up a lone prospect stops the team we are trailing in the division from bolstering their rotation AND it could land us another much needed bat, then you have to do it. Give KW credit for thinking outside the box and not the standard White Sox "we'll just stand pat" way of thinking.

For all you Ryan Sweeney lovers out there who think we would be trading away Ted Williams, since when are you guys qualified to make expert MLB talent evaluations on prospects? Because you saw Sweeney have a nice Spring Training with the club? I love when people on this board over value our own prospects. Remember when Matt Guerrier was traded to the Pirates for Damaso Marte? There was outrage from many people here. What about Royce Ring to the Mets for Alomar? "Ring is our future closer!!" people cried. People were all over KW for those two moves and you are always hearing about Ring and Guerrier tearing it up in the big leagues these days.

Guys, I'm just sick and tired of waiting for the future. The division is winnable despite this 5 game losing streak. Sweeney is a guy that COULD and I emphasize COULD help us in the future BUT he is in Class A ball. He is at least 3 years away from the majors! Don't any of you want to win right now? Rather than spin the roulette wheel and hope it lands on black in 3 years?

Chek2002
07-30-2004, 12:42 PM
I read on the Pittsburgh forum that the rumor was that the White Sox were going to send Casey Rogowski (23)- .299-15-68 .417 OBP in the NYM/CHW/PIT trade, not Sweeney.
Here is the link:
http://www.pittsburghsports.net/viewtopic.php?t=810

1917
07-30-2004, 12:45 PM
Looks like we may get nothing back in return

Flight #24
07-30-2004, 12:50 PM
If we were willing to take back Floyd and his $6.5mil deal for 2 more years, why wouldn't we be willing to take on Kendall & cash and pay him 6.5mil (or a bit more)?

Doesnt' make a ton of sense, but the Casey Rogowski thing just to bock the Twins does make some sense. The good thing is that it'll either keep the Twins without a good SP or make them overpay. If they overpay and we keep Rogowski, that's not bad for us. Especially since i'm not sold on benson doing a ton for them in his transition to the AL.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2004, 12:59 PM
When I heard Benson was going to be involved in a three-way, for some reason I couldn't stop picturing his wife!

Cliff Floyd would be a nice bat to have for the rest of the season, but he's a luxury. Our holes at catcher, leadoff, and relief are more critical. If we aren't going to fill at least two of those, we're not a serious contender, and we shouldn't be giving away one of our top three prospects for yet another DH.

jeremyb1
07-30-2004, 01:04 PM
I read on the Pittsburgh forum that the rumor was that the White Sox were going to send Casey Rogowski (23)- .299-15-68 .417 OBP in the NYM/CHW/PIT trade, not Sweeney.
Here is the link:
http://www.pittsburghsports.net/viewtopic.php?t=810

Haha. Now THAT sounds more like a KW trade. There has to be a part in there where you make sure you trade the players with the best plate discipline in the organization.

Fungo
07-30-2004, 01:09 PM
Looks like we may get nothing back in returnThey have to, either a player or cash.

Randar68
07-30-2004, 01:51 PM
I'm sure we'll see some of Anderson next year, I don't think we'll see Fields until '06 and same with Lucy. I think next year some people are going to be surprised at how all of the sudden the sox have some pretty darn good prospects. Because Winston Salem and Kannapolis are loaded with good prospects.Well-said. Next year opens with Anderson in AAA or Chicago, Chris young in W-S, Sweeney, Fields, Rogowski, BMac, Lumsden in Birmingham...

Honel and Wing hopefully back healthy...

Suddenly, people would think we're loaded, but I'm sure Wealz will find a way to complain about some 2nd round draft pick as being the bane of his existence...

Wealz
07-30-2004, 01:54 PM
Well-said. Next year opens with Anderson in AAA or Chicago, Chris young in W-S, Sweeney, Fields, Rogowski, BMac, Lumsden in Birmingham...

Honel and Wing hopefully back healthy...

Suddenly, people would think we're loaded, but I'm sure Wealz will find a way to complain about some 2nd round draft pick as being the bane of his existence...
You forgot to mention Jason Stumm or Rob Purvis. Loaded we are not.

habibharu
07-30-2004, 01:55 PM
you cannot trade a talent like sweeney for a 30 yr old OF who may or may not help you get to the playoffs!

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 02:02 PM
Well-said. Next year opens with Anderson in AAA or Chicago, Chris young in W-S, Sweeney, Fields, Rogowski, BMac, Lumsden in Birmingham...
Randar,

Wouldn't you say moving Anderson to Chicago next year would be rushing him just a bit? Same with Lumsden to AA?

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-30-2004, 02:06 PM
IF the white sox get Floyd, it'll probably be the first time I'll disagree with one of KW's moves. This is the 33 yr old floyd that is best suited for the DH spot that carl is occupying. He's nowhere near what he used to be. I noticed how someone mentioned that he's a chicago native, guess what? A few years ago when he was one of the better players in the league, he said that one of the few teams that he WOULDN'T want to be traded to was our white sox.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 02:43 PM
IF the white sox get Floyd, it'll probably be the first time I'll disagree with one of KW's moves. This is the 33 yr old floyd that is best suited for the DH spot that carl is occupying. He's nowhere near what he used to be. I noticed how someone mentioned that he's a chicago native, guess what? A few years ago when he was one of the better players in the league, he said that one of the few teams that he WOULDN'T want to be traded to was our white sox.Cliff Floyd is 31 years old. :rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5177

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-30-2004, 02:48 PM
Cliff Floyd is 31 years old. :rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5177 Big deal. He's had nagging injuries the past two seasons and he's best suited for the DH spot in the AL. Carl needs to stay in the DH role because of his shoulder. Just what we need, a crappy fielder who's a big time injury risk and he's already talking about calling it quits. :rolleyes:

Aidan
07-30-2004, 03:08 PM
Big deal. He's had nagging injuries the past two seasons and he's best suited for the DH spot in the AL. Carl needs to stay in the DH role because of his shoulder. Just what we need, a crappy fielder who's a big time injury risk and he's already talking about calling it quits. :rolleyes:Fine, but it only takes a minute to do some research and actually get his age right. When you make errors like that, who's to say that the rest of the stuff you said isn't wrong?

SoxxoS
07-30-2004, 03:18 PM
Fine, but it only takes a minute to do some research and actually get his age right. When you make errors like that, who's to say that the rest of the stuff you said isn't wrong?
That was exactly my point talking about the spelling of the names. If you spell it Valentine or Rowland (which changes the whole name...so I am not talking about Buerhle or Everitt) it reduces the credibility of the poster. If they can't get the players name right, what makes the reader think any of the info about the player is right?

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-30-2004, 03:28 PM
Fine, but it only takes a minute to do some research and actually get his age right. When you make errors like that, who's to say that the rest of the stuff you said isn't wrong? He missed over 50 games last year and over 20 games this year, so he's definitely an injury risk. And for the 33 yr old part, I saw someone mention it in this thread so I just went with that. No need to rip me apart for mistaking the age of a player who isn't even on the sox. It's not like I said a white sox player such as Magglio Ordonez was 35 or something like that.

habibharu
07-30-2004, 03:31 PM
He missed over 50 games last year and over 20 games this year, so he's definitely an injury risk. And for the 33 yr old part, I saw someone mention it in this thread so I just went with that. No need to rip me apart for mistaking the age of a player who isn't even on the sox. It's not like I said a white sox player such as Magglio Ordonez was 35 or something like that. Wait, are you trying to say that Mags ISNT 35?? WHAT!!??