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View Full Version : Gammons: Sox in 3-way deal to block Benson to Twins?


whitesox30
07-29-2004, 10:12 PM
i just heard on espn news tht the mets are close to a deal to acquire kris benson from the pirates tht involves a 3 team trade with the whitesox....any body know who wed get??

WHarris13
07-29-2004, 10:13 PM
i just heard on espn news tht the mets are close to a deal to acquire kris benson from the pirates tht involves a 3 team trade with the whitesox....any body know who wed get??:o:

RKMeibalane
07-29-2004, 10:13 PM
i just heard on espn news tht the mets are close to a deal to acquire kris benson from the pirates tht involves a 3 team trade with the whitesox....any body know who wed get??
Tom Glavine, Mike Piazza, and David Wright.

Brian26
07-29-2004, 10:14 PM
Hmmmm.

Could this be Kendall?

Kogs35
07-29-2004, 10:15 PM
Jack or Craig Wilson?

misty60481
07-29-2004, 10:17 PM
Probably Shane Spencer

Brian26
07-29-2004, 10:19 PM
Probably Shane Spencer
Ugh. I hope not.

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 10:25 PM
Jose Reyes. Joking.

Who knows. Maybe it is Kendall. The Mets pick up part of Kendall's salary and we give prospects for them to get Benson without giving up their own prospects. We shall see.

Win1ForMe
07-29-2004, 10:26 PM
We should put this in the clubhouse. Anything that keeps Benson away from the Twins is fine by me.

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 10:29 PM
Wow, wouldn't this be something. Kendal????? Oh man, to dream.

Kogs35
07-29-2004, 10:29 PM
We should put this in the clubhouse. Anything that keeps Benson away from the Twins is fine by me.
according to gammons the mets should get benson tonight with the sox sending a minor leaguer to the mets to keep benson away from the twins

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 10:30 PM
According to Gammons on BBTN, the Sox part of this would be giving up a player just to keep Benson away from the Twins. Doesn't sound like we would be acquiring anyone good, just giving someone up to keep Benson away from the Twins. He says the Mets would give up Wigginton, Matt Peterson, and the player they receieved from the Sox.

Palehose13
07-29-2004, 10:32 PM
Give up a player and get no one in return? Sounds weird. Oh well, on the bright side KW hasn't given up...at least he is trying to sabotage the twinks!

Win1ForMe
07-29-2004, 10:33 PM
According to Gammons on BBTN, the Sox part of this would be giving up a player just to keep Benson away from the Twins. Doesn't sound like we would be acquiring anyone good, just giving someone up to keep Benson away from the Twins. He says the Mets would give up Wiggington, Matt Peterson, and the player they receieved from the Sox.
Well, that's a little less exciting than the Kendall possibility. Don't know if I actually like us giving away prospects for that. Depends on who the player is I guess.

RKMeibalane
07-29-2004, 10:36 PM
Well, that's a little less exciting than the Kendall possibility. Don't know if I actually like us giving away prospects for that. Depends on who the player is I guess.
It's probably Sweeney or Anderson with the way things have been going.

oeo
07-29-2004, 10:37 PM
Why...I don't think that Benson would even be that great in the AL...I think this is a dumb move, but who knows, the Sox could be getting someone. This is Peter Gammons we're talking about here.

And BTW...even if the Twins do not get Benson, the Sox still have to win some f'in games to stay in this race. Please WIN and WIN NOW!

Go Sox!

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 10:39 PM
Well, that's a little less exciting than the Kendall possibility. Don't know if I actually like us giving away prospects for that. Depends on who the player is I guess.Yeah, it certainly isn't. Here I was getting all excited about us possibly getting Kendall, and we'll probably end up Chris Stynes or some schmuck. You know though, it wouldn't surprise me if we end up getting Mackowiak in return. The Pirates are getting Wigginton in return and I'd imagine they want to start him right away. Bay is in left, Wilson at 1B or RF. I suppose they could put Wilson at 1B and Macko in right, but otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if we acquire Macko in this deal. Still, that's probably a bit too optimistic at this point.

MarkEdward
07-29-2004, 10:40 PM
Three way deal between Sox, Mets, Pittsburg.

Mets getting Benson, Sox sending a minor leaguer to Pitt. Didn't say what the Sox would get.

Palehose13
07-29-2004, 10:43 PM
You know though, it wouldn't surprise me if we end up getting Mackowiak in return.


I'd be happy with Macko for a minor leaguer.

RKMeibalane
07-29-2004, 10:43 PM
Three way deal between Sox, Mets, Pittsburg.

Mets getting Benson, Sox sending a minor leaguer to Pitt. Didn't say what the Sox would get.
I don't think they're getting anything. It looks like KW is just trying to prevent Minnesota from getting Benson.

oeo
07-29-2004, 10:47 PM
We better get something...why are we going to trade away our future so that the Twins can't get Benson and they keep their future. To go along with that, how is this going to help us win the division because we couldn't beat them when they didn't have Benson.

EDIT: Besides...it just seems to me like Gammons is trying to make us look bad by saying we're trying to keep Benson away from Minny because the Twins are ESPN's new favorite team.

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 10:49 PM
We better get something...why are we going to trade away our future so that the Twins can't get Benson and they keep their future. To go along with that, how is this going to help us win the division because we couldn't beat them when they didn't have Benson.
I would hope we're getting something worthwhile back and that we haven't resorted to the line of thinking that in order to win, we have to try to screw our competition. If this deal does go down, I really hope that it's because we are getting someone in return that KW feels will help this team win right now.

balboner
07-29-2004, 10:50 PM
If KW trades away a decent to good prospect, and doesn't get back something good, is foolish in this situation. Benson isn't a difference maker, and I highly doubt he will decide the AL central with his remaining 12 starts or so. Mulholland was doing a great job for them anyways in the 5th spot. I wouldnt mind seeing the Twins have to give up some top prospects to get Benson. If we still had Maggs and frank this year, I could understand this move.

3Pete
07-29-2004, 10:50 PM
On a Twins board, someone is reporting that Peter Gammons has basically confirmed the Mets-Pirates deal for Benson. I guess Gammons said that the Mets would send two players to the Pirates, and the third one would come from the WHITE SOX! That's gotta be unprecedented, a division rival giving up a player so another rival would not get a player? Not exactly promoting goodwill, huh? (By the way, this is just what I heard, so don't jump on the messenger)

pczarapa
07-29-2004, 10:52 PM
On a Twins board, someone is reporting that Peter Gammons has basically confirmed the Mets-Pirates deal for Benson. I guess Gammons said that the Mets would send two players to the Pirates, and the third one would come from the WHITE SOX! That's gotta be unprecedented, a division rival giving up a player so another rival would not get a player? Not exactly promoting goodwill, huh? (By the way, this is just what I heard, so don't jump on the messenger)
Hmmm, I guess KW would give someone up for a future minor leaguer or cash considerations? It certainly doesn't sound implausible. I wonder if the Mets will shake our hand back some way.

mjmcend
07-29-2004, 10:52 PM
There is a thread alrady in the Talking Baseball forum called "trade" that is discussing this already. Although I am not sure why it isn't in the clubhouse.

oeo
07-29-2004, 10:52 PM
If KW trades away a decent to good prospect, and doesn't get back something good, is foolish in this situation. Benson isn't a difference maker, and I highly doubt he will decide the AL central with his remaining 12 starts or so. Mulholland was doing a great job for them anyways in the 5th spot. I wouldnt mind seeing the Twins have to give up some top prospects to get Benson. If we still had Maggs and frank this year, I could understand this move. Exactly...this is why I do not see KW doing this. He wants to not only win the divison but a World Championship. KW is not just going to get rid of a prospect so Minny doesn't get a pitcher that who knows how well he will do in his new uni. For some reason, I think do not think ESPN has the full story here.

South Side
07-29-2004, 10:53 PM
On a Twins board, someone is reporting that Peter Gammons has basically confirmed the Mets-Pirates deal for Benson. I guess Gammons said that the Mets would send two players to the Pirates, and the third one would come from the WHITE SOX! That's gotta be unprecedented, a division rival giving up a player so another rival would not get a player? Not exactly promoting goodwill, huh? (By the way, this is just what I heard, so don't jump on the messenger)
Sounds good to me! Screw goodwill. :cool:

Brian26
07-29-2004, 10:53 PM
I don't think they're getting anything. It looks like KW is just trying to prevent Minnesota from getting Benson.
This is amazing.

oeo
07-29-2004, 10:58 PM
On a Twins board, someone is reporting that Peter Gammons has basically confirmed the Mets-Pirates deal for Benson. I guess Gammons said that the Mets would send two players to the Pirates, and the third one would come from the WHITE SOX! That's gotta be unprecedented, a division rival giving up a player so another rival would not get a player? Not exactly promoting goodwill, huh? (By the way, this is just what I heard, so don't jump on the messenger)
Hah, they also think that we're going to give up Rowand or Crede for this. Bwahhahah....

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Exactly...this is why I do not see KW doing this. He wants to not only win the divison but a World Championship. KW is not just going to get rid of a prospect so Minny doesn't get a pitcher that who knows how well he will do in his new uni. For some reason, I think do not think ESPN has the full story here.ESPN has never said that the Sox reason for making this trade was solely to keep Benson away from the Twins. When Gammons was talking he said something to the effect of "The Pirates will receive Ty Wigginton, Matt Peterson and a 3rd player coming over from the White Sox. The White Sox really don't want the Twins to get Benson." He never said that the Sox are just giving a player away. For all we know, KW jumped in on this because he saw an opportunity to keep a player from our division rivals and improve our own team. I mean, if we can acquire a Brian Meadows, not give up much, and help keep Benson away from the Twins, this deal looks really good.

DickAllen72
07-29-2004, 11:00 PM
ESPN's Peter Gammons reported Thursday night that the Mets and Pirates are in serious discussions about a deal that would send Benson to New York in exchange for third baseman Ty Wigginton, right-handed pitching prospect Matt Peterson and a minor leaguer, who likely would come from the White Sox in a three-team scenario.

This is also being discussed on Pirates and Mets fan forums but no one seems to know whom the Sox get or whom they give up.

oeo
07-29-2004, 11:06 PM
ESPN has never said that the Sox reason for making this trade was solely to keep Benson away from the Twins. When Gammons was talking he said something to the effect of "The Pirates will receive Ty Wiggington, Matt Peterson and a 3rd player coming over from the White Sox. The White Sox really don't want the Twins to get Benson." He never said that the Sox are just giving a player away. For all we know, KW jumped in on this because he saw an opportunity to keep a player from our division rivals and improve our own team. I mean, if we can acquire a Brian Meadows, not give up much, and help keep Benson away from the Twins, this deal looks really good.
I'm just taking word from what other people said here. I did not hear what Gammons said...I only heard that. Sorry for any misinterpretation.

cbrownson13
07-29-2004, 11:06 PM
Just heard on Sportscenter that the Mets are very close to aquiring Kris Benson from the Pirates for Ty Wiggington, a minor league pitcher and a minor leaguer from the White Sox.

Peter Gammons said that the White Sox would help the Mets out so the Twins don't end up with Benson.

nitetrain8601
07-29-2004, 11:07 PM
According to Peter Gammons, the Mets are close to getting Kris Benson for Ty Wiggington a minor leaguer of their own and a SOX MINOR LEAGUER. Reason given was because KW doesn't want the Twins to get Benson. Smart or dumb?

Win1ForMe
07-29-2004, 11:10 PM
This should definitely go to the clubhouse. Benson threads are popping up left and right.

balboner
07-29-2004, 11:10 PM
If we give up a good prospect and don't get anything in return, then this is incredibly dumb. You don't do thi s type of thing when you're 4 games out and need to fix your own team.

oeo
07-29-2004, 11:19 PM
A Pirate fan thinks that the only way this trade would go through was if the White Sox got Kendall ;D

He says it would be a salary dump and quite possibly maybe the only way to dump him.

What do you guys think?

kitekrazy
07-29-2004, 11:21 PM
i just heard on espn news tht the mets are close to a deal to acquire kris benson from the pirates tht involves a 3 team trade with the whitesox....any body know who wed get??
I gotten to the point that I don't find very many things on ESPN credible unless they are scores. After that I double check the net to verify.

idseer
07-29-2004, 11:22 PM
We better get something...why are we going to trade away our future so that the Twins can't get Benson and they keep their future. To go along with that, how is this going to help us win the division because we couldn't beat them when they didn't have Benson.

EDIT: Besides...it just seems to me like Gammons is trying to make us look bad by saying we're trying to keep Benson away from Minny because the Twins are ESPN's new favorite team.
would the ahem 'commissioner' even allow such a deal?

DickAllen72
07-29-2004, 11:29 PM
What is the rule for "players to be named"? I thought they had to be traded within 6 months of the original transaction.

The reason I ask is that on the Mets message board people are now saying the minor leaguer the Sox are giving to the Mets is the "player to be named" the Sox owe the Mets from last year's Robbie Alomar trade.

Did the Sox ever complete that deal?

South Side
07-29-2004, 11:30 PM
A Pirate fan thinks that the only way this trade would go through was if the White Sox got Kendall ;D

He says it would be a salary dump and quite possibly maybe the only way to dump him.

What do you guys think?

Stop, it sounds too good...

oeo
07-29-2004, 11:32 PM
What is the rule for "players to be named"? I thought they had to be traded within 6 months of the original transaction.

The reason I ask is that on the Mets message board people are now saying the minor leaguer the Sox are giving to the Mets is the "player to be named" the Sox owe the Mets from last year's Robbie Alomar trade.

Did the Sox ever complete that deal?
I'm not sure if they did, but I'm pretty sure that you are correct about the 6 months from the initial transaction.

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:33 PM
Just heard this on ESPN. Either we are simply giving up a prospect to block the Twins from getting Benson or we are also getting someone. If we are only giving up one prospect, it would make sense that we get Kendall since the Pirates want to dump his contract. Wouldn't we have to be compensated if we gave up a prospect? I doubt you can just give up a prospect without getting anything in return. That would be collusion.

EDIT: The trade rumor is up at ESPN.com now...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1848914

StrTrkker
07-29-2004, 11:43 PM
Just heard this on ESPN. Either we are simply giving up a prospect to block the Twins from getting Benson or we are also getting someone. If we are only giving up one prospect, it would make sense that we get Kendall since the Pirates want to dump his contract. We shall see.
Oh please please please...hope its Kendall.

He will be the needle to thread our torn Sox together.

OurBitchinMinny
07-29-2004, 11:45 PM
I hope they make a move, but at this point I dont think blocking a twinkie move for benson is neccessary. Because whether or not they get him is moot because this current sox team is not catching the twins...not if they cant make an effort against detroit. Id almost like it because they would give up a prospect or two.

South Side
07-29-2004, 11:45 PM
Just heard this on ESPN. Either we are simply giving up a prospect to block the Twins from getting Benson or we are also getting someone. If we are only giving up one prospect, it would make sense that we get Kendall since the Pirates want to dump his contract. Wouldn't we have to be compensated if we gave up a prospect? I doubt you can just give up a prospect without getting anything in return. That would be collusion.

EDIT: The trade rumor is up at ESPN.com now...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1848914
JR has approved a payroll increase... This would be a good thing... Anyone who can get on base.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 11:46 PM
Oh please please please...hope its Kendall.

He will be the needle to thread our torn Sox together.
Nice line. Kendall is a nice start on re-making the Sox as division favorites. The next step would be to deal for Jerry Hairston Jr. Or if we don't get Kendall, make a deal with Toronto for Gregg Zaun and Frank Catalanotto.

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:54 PM
Nice line. Kendall is a nice start on re-making the Sox as division favorites. The next step would be to deal for Jerry Hairston Jr. Or if we don't get Kendall, make a deal with Toronto for Gregg Zaun and Frank Catalanotto.Hopefully it is Kendall but who knows? Can a baseball team simply give a prospect to another team to block another team? Wouldn't that be collusion? Or is this a player to be named later that we owed the Mets from the Robbie Alomar deal?

EDIT: We don't owe the Mets a player to be named later...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0701/1575307.html

We already sent them Royce Ring, Edwin Almonte, and Andrew Salvo for Robbie Alomar.

Wealz
07-30-2004, 12:03 AM
Hopefully it is Kendall but who knows? Can a baseball team simply give a prospect to another team to block another team? Wouldn't that be collusion?
Depending on the prospect, I can't believe it would be Anderson or Sweeney, I have no problem with it. He who laughs last . . .

michaelgarv
07-30-2004, 01:11 AM
Peter Gammons has Reported that the White Sox are sending over a minor league player in the deal so they can block the Twins from getting Benson. I have been over on the Pirates board and the fans there are very optimistic about any thing Peter Gammons Reports because last year he was way off on the Giles deal and last night he reported that The Twins would have Benson Today. With that being said, My question is, wouldn't the White Sox roll in this be a little more significant then giving away an intangable just to block the Twins from getting involved? Wouldn't they have to be offering something really good or taking a huge lump of salery (Kendall ?? ) for the other 2 teams to want to get involved? Why would the other 2 teams want to create that kind of bad blood with the Twins GM when they could have just dealt with each other?

Soxzilla
07-30-2004, 01:12 AM
There is already a whole thread on this.:smile:

Jjav829
07-30-2004, 01:29 AM
Peter Gammons has Reported that the White Sox are sending over a minor league player in the deal so they can block the Twins from getting Benson. I have been over on the Pirates board and the fans there are very optimistic about any thing Peter Gammons Reports because last year he was way off on the Giles deal and last night he reported that The Twins would have Benson Today. With that being said, My question is, wouldn't the White Sox roll in this be a little more significant then giving away an intangable just to block the Twins from getting involved? Wouldn't they have to be offering something really good or taking a huge lump of salery (Kendall ?? ) for the other 2 teams to want to get involved? Why would the other 2 teams want to create that kind of bad blood with the Twins GM when they could have just dealt with each other?
Hey, Welcome Aboard! :D:

I doubt it creates much bad blood. If anything, it creates bad blood between Terry Ryan and KW. But when all is said and done, they all realize that every GM has to do whats best for their club. If that means helping to move a trade along to keep a player from your division rival, so be it. There are quite a few people hoping the Sox involvement in this trade is larger than just giving up someone to help move Benson to the Mets. But back to the bad blood thing, I doubt Terry Ryan would harbor any ill will to the Pirates or Mets. I'm sure he realizes that the Pirates are just looking for the best deal, regardless of what that means. As for the Mets, they're just trying to get the player they want, not necessarily block that player from going to the Twins.

michaelgarv
07-30-2004, 01:46 AM
I understand everything you are saying. I also agree on everything to some point. WHen I say "Bad Blood " I am not saying that Terry Ryan will start a war. All I am saying is that if this really is a Minor League player ( non significant ) and the reason he is involved is to block a Minnesota deal then that could be in the back of Terry Ryans mind for a while. Anyways, I guarantee that if the sox are involved in this that it is much much bigger Then what Gammons reported. No way in the world we would be involved in this unless we are dumping salery(unlikely ) or helping one of them dump a salery.

Soxzilla
07-30-2004, 01:50 AM
I understand everything you are saying. I also agree on everything to some point. WHen I say "Bad Blood " I am not saying that Terry Ryan will start a war. All I am saying is that if this really is a Minor League player ( non significant ) and the reason he is involved is to block a Minnesota deal then that could be in the back of Terry Ryans mind for a while. Anyways, I guarantee that if the sox are involved in this that it is much much bigger Then what Gammons reported. No way in the world we would be involved in this unless we are dumping salery(unlikely ) or helping one of them dump a salery.
Well if your concerned about our relationship with terry. I'm not exactly sure you should worry about that. I don't see the twins and white sox making any deals in the near future.

And I doubt if by chance terry goes to gm for another mlb team outside of our division, he wouldn't harbour those feelings about the "pitcher that got away."

Anyways, please god, give us thy Kendall, so he can smite thy foes.:D:

What exact time is the deadline?

Jjav829
07-30-2004, 01:54 AM
Well if your concerned about our relationship with terry. I'm not exactly sure you should worry about that. I don't see the twins and white sox making any deals in the near future.

And I doubt if by chance terry goes to gm for another mlb team outside of our division, he wouldn't harbour those feelings about the "pitcher that got away."

Anyways, please god, give us thy Kendall, so he can smite thy foes.:D:

What exact time is the deadline?
3 PM Central Saturday.

Rex Hudler
07-30-2004, 01:57 AM
1:00 pm Saturday afternoon...... Eastern time, I believe.

ma-gaga
07-30-2004, 02:57 AM
I doubt Terry Ryan would harbor any ill will to the Pirates or Mets. I'm sure he realizes that the Pirates are just looking for the best deal, regardless of what that means. It sounded like this afternoon that the Pirates were asking for 2 'can't miss' prospects for Benson and T.Ryan balked. Now KW decides to thwart T.Ryan by offering a player?!? This is like Seattle signing Ibanez AFTER KC announced that they wouldn't offer him arbitration, effectively giving up Seattle's first round pick.

This is truly madness. I'll believe it when I see it. Then again it is KW...


:KW

"we're getting back Jeremey Kendall?"

Man Soo Lee
07-30-2004, 06:16 AM
From today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38198121):

According to rumors out of Pittsburgh and New York on Thursday night, the White Sox are going to acquire Mets outfielder Cliff Floyd in a three-way trade today.

The Pirates also would be involved, and they'd get third baseman Ty Wiggington and minor-league pitcher Matt Peterson from the Mets in exchange for starting pitcher Kris Benson.

The White Sox would send a minor-league prospect, believed to be Class A Winston-Salem outfielder Ryan Sweeney, to Pittsburgh.

When reached late Thursday night, Mets GM Jim Duquette denied he was shopping Floyd.I'm not sure how this makes sense for the Mets.

ChiSoxBobette
07-30-2004, 07:22 AM
According to Gammons on BBTN, the Sox part of this would be giving up a player just to keep Benson away from the Twins. Doesn't sound like we would be acquiring anyone good, just giving someone up to keep Benson away from the Twins. He says the Mets would give up Wigginton, Matt Peterson, and the player they receieved from the Sox.I don't think the twins need benson to beat the White Sox and after last night the season is just about done. It took jerry manuel 2 years for the White Sox players to loose confidence in him as a manager it took Ozzie 1 game for him to loose this team. Tonight is the season if the Sox loose and go 5 games back look for JR to give KW orders to raise the white flag.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 08:36 AM
From today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38198121):
According to rumors out of Pittsburgh and New York on Thursday night, the White Sox are going to acquire Mets outfielder Cliff Floyd in a three-way trade today.

The Pirates also would be involved, and they'd get third baseman Ty Wiggington and minor-league pitcher Matt Peterson from the Mets in exchange for starting pitcher Kris Benson.

The White Sox would send a minor-league prospect, believed to be Class A Winston-Salem outfielder Ryan Sweeney, to Pittsburgh.I'm not sure how this makes sense for the Mets.It makes sense because the Mets can put Eric Valent in LF full-time now. He just hit for the cycle in Floyd's absence and has been tearing it up lately...

"Valent gets MLB's fourth cycle this season"
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240729120

It also clears the money for Kris Benson since Benson and Floyd are both making around $6 million. The Mets need another starting pitcher badly since the Scott Erickson experiment failed miserably and they cut him. We would have a new right fielder then and Floyd is originally from Chicago. :wink: The Mets would then have Valent in LF, Cameron in CF, and Hidalgo in RF. Cliff Floyd is also under contract at a very modest $6.5 million dollars for this season, 2005, and 2006. He could be Maggs replacement. If we got Floyd to play RF and also traded for Hairston to play 2B, I'd be a happy camper. We would still need another arm in the bullpen though.

Cliff Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5177)
.278 AVG
.357 OBP
.498 SLG
13 HR
46 RBI

He would definately be a nice left-handed bat to have.

yeboredsox
07-30-2004, 08:46 AM
Props to KW for this move. The Twins still only have one pitcher compared to the 2 1/2 on the whitesox, magnifying the impact of the freddy deal.

gosox41
07-30-2004, 09:23 AM
It makes sense because the Mets can put Eric Valent in LF full-time now. He just hit for the cycle in Floyd's absence and has been tearing it up lately...

"Valent gets MLB's fourth cycle this season"
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240729120

It also clears the money for Kris Benson since Benson and Floyd are both making around $6 million. The Mets need another starting pitcher badly since the Scott Erickson experiment failed miserably and they cut him. We would have a new right fielder then and Floyd is originally from Chicago. :wink: The Mets would then have Valent in LF, Cameron in CF, and Hidalgo in RF. Cliff Floyd is also under contract at a very modest $6.5 million dollars for this season, 2005, and 2006. He could be Maggs replacement. If we got Floyd to play RF and also traded for Hairston to play 2B, I'd be a happy camper. We would still need another arm in the bullpen though.

Cliff Floyd (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5177)
.278 AVG
.357 OBP
.498 SLG
13 HR
46 RBI

He would definately be a nice left-handed bat to have.
So no one seems to care that we're giving up Ryan Sweeney for Cliff Floyd? Floyd's having a decent year, but come on.


Bob

dickallen15
07-30-2004, 09:26 AM
So no one seems to care that we're giving up Ryan Sweeney for Cliff Floyd? Floyd's having a decent year, but come on.


BobPlus, Floyd's achilles is still bothering him, enough that he has contemplated retirement. I say he'd play about 25 games and then go on the DL.

soxtalker
07-30-2004, 09:34 AM
So no one seems to care that we're giving up Ryan Sweeney for Cliff Floyd? Floyd's having a decent year, but come on.


Bob
I agree. Wasn't Ryan Sweeney one of two outfielders that was used to justify the Reed trade?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2004, 09:36 AM
We better get something...why are we going to trade away our future so that the Twins can't get Benson and they keep their future. To go along with that, how is this going to help us win the division because we couldn't beat them when they didn't have Benson.

EDIT: Besides...it just seems to me like Gammons is trying to make us look bad by saying we're trying to keep Benson away from Minny because the Twins are ESPN's new favorite team.
It's called predatory behavior, and it is how you win championships. If you can't improve your own team, you make damn sure your closest competitor doesn't get better either.

The Yankees do this to the Red Sox all the time. You think it's a coincidence that Arod is wearing pinstripes these days? That 3-way deal Boston (and KW) nearly pulled off last winter with Texas put the fear of God into the Yankees. No way they were going to let Boston get Arod, even if it meant moving Jeter to third base.

This is how the big boys play. If Minnesota wants Benson, let them cough up even more to get him because Pittsburgh's price definitely went up.

I'm glad to see KW is in there trying. Kudos to him.

:gulp:

BeerHandle
07-30-2004, 09:42 AM
It's called predatory behavior, and it is how you win championships. If you can't improve your own team, you make damn sure your closest competitor doesn't get better either.

The Yankees do this to the Red Sox all the time. You think it's a coincidence that Arod is wearing pinstripes these days? That 3-way deal Boston (and KW) nearly pulled off last winter with Texas put the fear of God into the Yankees. No way they were going to let Boston get Arod, even if it meant moving Jeter to third base.

This is how the big boys play. If Minnesota wants Benson, let them cough up even more to get him because Pittsburgh's price definitely went up.

I'm glad to see KW is in there trying. Kudos to him.

:gulp:
I agree!

soxtalker
07-30-2004, 09:43 AM
...

This is how the big boys play. If Minnesota wants Benson, let them cough up even more to get him because Pittsburgh's price definitely went up.

I'm glad to see KW is in there trying. Kudos to him.

:gulp: Could this be KW's ultimate motivation? Depends, of course, on how good he thinks Benson is. And in other years it might be a bit too long-term in thinking. But if the Pirates are expecting players who can play at the major league level (advanced AAA or very young major leaguers), this might be a way to get MN to give up its depth in the outfield.

Fungo
07-30-2004, 09:43 AM
It's called predatory behavior, and it is how you win championships. If you can't improve your own team, you make damn sure your closest competitor doesn't get better either.

The Yankees do this to the Red Sox all the time. You think it's a coincidence that Arod is wearing pinstripes these days? That 3-way deal Boston (and KW) nearly pulled off last winter with Texas put the fear of God into the Yankees. No way they were going to let Boston get Arod, even if it meant moving Jeter to third base.

This is how the big boys play. If Minnesota wants Benson, let them cough up even more to get him because Pittsburgh's price definitely went up.

I'm glad to see KW is in there trying. Kudos to him.

:gulp:Exactly. At the very least, the White Sox entering the picture will force the Twins to up the ante and significantly overpay for Benson if they really want him. Excellent move on the part of KW.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 09:47 AM
So no one seems to care that we're giving up Ryan Sweeney for Cliff Floyd? Floyd's having a decent year, but come on.


BobJoe Borchard and Brian Anderson are the two outfielders that KW doesn't want to give up. Ryan Sweeney is only in A ball (Winston-Salem) and is doing alright but not great...

Ryan Sweeney (http://milb.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=milb-warthogs&page=milb-car/teams/K60/individual.aspx?team=K60)
395 AB
.281 AVG
.382 SLG
5 HR
50 RBI
6 SB
5 CS
26 BB
50 SO

Look at his walks and strikeouts. He seems like a free-swinging guy with no power to me. We have plenty of guys like that on our team and they actually have power. We get the right fielder we need in Cliff Floyd and also block the Twins from getting Kris Benson. Seems like a good deal to me.

Win1ForMe
07-30-2004, 09:55 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/story/216497p-186353c.html

MONTREAL - Cliff Floyd could request a trade to an AL club if his ailing right Achilles tendon doesn't feel any better come spring training. But the Mets are shopping the slugger right now, according to an NL scout, and didn't appreciate Floyd's candid comments about his health yesterday, nor his expressing an intention to retire at 33 when his contract expires in 2006.


Both Art Howe and spokesman Jay Horwitz pulled the outfielder aside after he spoke with the media yesterday, displeased with his statements. Floyd was already being shopped before his remarks, which figure to lessen his trade value. That is likely what angered the Mets.

"At this point I'm not doing anything," Floyd said about requesting a trade.

Floyd said he awakes every morning with discomfort in his surgically repaired heel that "didn't heal right," though it's significantly better than before the procedure to shave bone spurs. He wants to see how the heel responds to winter rest before telling the Mets whether his body simply can't handle playing the outfield anymore. Floyd will be halfway through a four-year, $26 million contract after this season.

"I've thought about it," Floyd said of a trade request. "I'll do what's best for myself and the team I'm on. It's becoming a damn grind."

Floyd said whenever a friend greets him, he asks, "You healthy?"

Said Floyd: "It ain't never, 'How you doing?' "

At his introductory news conference at Shea two winters ago, Floyd railed against the "injury-prone" label. Now he concedes that it may be the case.

"I'm 31. I'm at a point where I'm just tired," Floyd said. "I've been hurt my whole career.
"I thought about this for a long time. I've told people for a while this is my last contract."
I wouldn't mind getting Floyd but his health concerns me.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 09:56 AM
We get the right fielder we need in Cliff Floyd and also block the Twins from getting Kris Benson. Seems like a good deal to me.I dunno. Do we want a free swinging prospect that has a chance to work out the kinks while making league minimum or do we want a gimply free swinging veteran who makes millions on a ridiculous contract? :?:

I mean we've already lost Mags and Hurt to injury. What happens if we trade for this guy and lose him to injury this year and every year for the rest of his contract - which we eat - big time.

oldcomiskey
07-30-2004, 10:02 AM
We better get something...why are we going to trade away our future so that the Twins can't get Benson and they keep their future. To go along with that, how is this going to help us win the division because we couldn't beat them when they didn't have Benson.

EDIT: Besides...it just seems to me like Gammons is trying to make us look bad by saying we're trying to keep Benson away from Minny because the Twins are ESPN's new favorite team.
I dont know if you have noticed this or not--but right now the future aint too bright--Im not throwing in the towel or anything---but the more I think I think about it the more I agree with Lip...we cant do anything right fundamentally--or mentally either for that matter. Lets look at who we got---3 catchers who combined aint hitting what Pudge(either one) has hit. a third baseman who refuses to shorten his swing on any count. a SS beloved by the Sox nation but has a strikeout level that is awful--although he is learning how not to switch hit and is the best cluth hitter we have. A speedy 2b who is afraid to steal and a first baseman who can hit---but even PK has been known to swing for the fences with 2 strikes. A superstar in RF who more than likely will be elsewhere next year--a CF who is a 4th outfielder and a LF who while he has improved his defense and had a 28 game hitting streak earlier sometimes still acts like he dont have a clue. and a DH who maybe is HOF bound but has a tendency to be--well contrary at times---but I do love Carl Everett

Im too sick to even bring up the pitching staff

gosox41
07-30-2004, 10:02 AM
Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson are the two outfielders that KW doesn't want to give up. Ryan Sweeney is only in A ball (Winston-Salem) and is doing alright but not great...

Ryan Sweeney (http://milb.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=milb-warthogs&page=milb-car/teams/K60/individual.aspx?team=K60)
395 AB
.281 AVG
.382 SLG
5 HR
50 RBI
6 SB
5 CS
26 BB
50 SO

Look at his walks and strikeouts. He seems like a free-swinging guy with no power to me. We have plenty of guys like that on our team and they actually have power. We get the right fielder we need in Cliff Floyd and also block the Twins from getting Kris Benson. Seems like a good deal to me.
He is also 19 playing a high level of minor league baseball for someone his age.

I thhought at the beginning of the year the Sox top prospects (in no particular order) were:

1. Borchard
2. Reed
3. Anderson
4. Sweeney
5. Rauch
6. Diaz
7. Honel

Honel is hurt and no one knows for sure if he'll be OK. The Sox have traded Reed and Rauch and are now talking of moving Sweeney. So now wer'e down to 3 (and hopefully 4 if Honel gets healthy) guys from our top prospects.

I know Rauch fell off some people's depth charts (as has Borchard and Reed) but I thought all had potential to be good major leaguers. And I have no problem trading to win now. I guess this is a sign of how bad off are farm system really is even before these trades.



Bob

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:03 AM
I dunno. Do we want a free swinging prospect that has a chance to work out the kinks while making league minimum or do we want a gimply free swinging veteran who makes millions on a ridiculous contract? :?:

I mean we've already lost Mags and Hurt to injury. What happens if we trade for this guy and lose him to injury this year and every year for the rest of his contract - which we eat - big time.I guess it's a risk that KW is willing to make. We definately aren't going to win anything with the hitless lineup Ozzie has been forced to throw out there everyday and if the Twins got Benson we would be put further into a hole. If Floyd can stay healthy and KW gets another bullpen arm we may have a chance. This is a better lineup than what we've had lately...

CF Rowand
2B Uribe
LF Lee
RF Floyd
DH Everett
1B Konerko
SS Valentin
3B Crede
C Alomar/Davis/Burke

gosox41
07-30-2004, 10:04 AM
I dunno. Do we want a free swinging prospect that has a chance to work out the kinks while making league minimum or do we want a gimply free swinging veteran who makes millions on a ridiculous contract? :?:

I mean we've already lost Mags and Hurt to injury. What happens if we trade for this guy and lose him to injury this year and every year for the rest of his contract - which we eat - big time.
The only way this deal looks good is if Kendall comes here to(and hte Priates eat at least half his salary).


Bob

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:05 AM
I still like getting Kendall better than Floyd.

Hey. Maybe we could talk Pittsburgh into giving up Kendall and Jason Bay.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:10 AM
The only way this deal looks good is if Kendall comes here to(and hte Priates eat at least half his salary).


BobFloyd AND Kendall would be awesome but I don't see it happening. But look at this lineup and drool...

C Kendall
CF Rowand
LF Lee
RF Floyd
DH Everett
1B Konerko
SS Valentin
3B Crede
2B Uribe

:o: :o: :o:

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:13 AM
Floyd AND Kendall would be awesome but I don't see it happening. But look at this lineup and drool...

C Kendall
CF Rowand
LF Lee
RF Floyd
DH Everett
1B Konerko
SS Valentin
3B Crede
2B Uribe

:o: :o: :o:
Where does Jason Bay fit into the lineup?

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:14 AM
Where does Jason Bay fit into the lineup? Stop having wet dreams. You would have to throw Jason Bay in a bag and kidnap him to get him to Chicago.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Stop having wet dreams. You would have to throw Jason Bay in a bag and kidnap him to get him to Chicago.Does someone not recognize the color of the text in my posts? I guess Crazy Carl is color blind too?

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:19 AM
Does someone not recognize the color of the text in my posts? I guess Crazy Carl is color blind too?I know but this whole teal thing is getting plaaayed ouuut.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:20 AM
I know but this whole teal thing is getting plaaayed ouuut.
Perhaps I should have gone a mixture of teal and this color - considering I was posting nonsense pipedreams.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:21 AM
Perhaps I should have gone a mixture of teal and this color - considering I was posting nonsense pipedreams.Or me and you can go get a bag and kidnap Jason Bay to play RF for us. :tongue:

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:23 AM
Or me and you can go get a bag and kidnap Jason Bay to play RF for us. :tongue:
Heh. Bay would look good in RF. Damn, I'll say this: Pittsburgh is going to be TOUGH in one or two years.

idseer
07-30-2004, 10:24 AM
Perhaps I should have gone a mixture of teal and this color - considering I was posting nonsense pipedreams.
or perhaps the problem is you didn't use teal in the first place?

you used this

teal is this.

the glowing turquoise you use is barely readable.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:26 AM
or perhaps the problem is you didn't use teal in the first place?

you used this

teal is this.

the glowing turquoise you use is barely readable.
This This This This This - well, hell, call me colorblind and slap my butt!

calderon
07-30-2004, 10:31 AM
Just read in the 3 way deal with Pitt and the Mets that we end up with Cliff Floyd, and Have to give up Sweeney??? This in my opinion is a dumb move.

Chek2002
07-30-2004, 10:32 AM
I agree totally.

Foulke29
07-30-2004, 10:33 AM
Not a big fan of it here either - mostly because it means RIP to Ordonez in a Sox uniform.

voodoochile
07-30-2004, 10:39 AM
Just read in the 3 way deal with Pitt and the Mets that we end up with Cliff Floyd, and Have to give up Sweeney??? This in my opinion is a dumb move.
Well, can't say I agree with you, but to each there own.

Any bat they can add before the deadline is helpful. A LH bat like Floyd would be a great addition.

BTW, I merged these threads because it is still just a rumor and I don't see the need for ANOTHER thread on the same topic.

infohawk
07-30-2004, 10:39 AM
For what it's worth, the official Pirates message board has a thread saying that Gammons was on ESPN radio this morning saying that the Pirates have backed out of the deal. It's the only place I've seen such a thread. Who knows whether it's true or not. I guess we'll all find out soon enough!

Aidan
07-30-2004, 10:50 AM
For what it's worth, the official Pirates message board has a thread saying that Gammons was on ESPN radio this morning saying that the Pirates have backed out of the deal. It's the only place I've seen such a thread. Who knows whether it's true or not. I guess we'll all find out soon enough!Please don't bring up MLB.com Message Boards. They are filled with so much garbage it's not even funny.

Dolanski
07-30-2004, 10:52 AM
Three-way for Benson?

The Pirates, unable to cut a satisfactory deal for righthander Kris Benson, talked about involving a third team to enhance the package they would receive, according to major-league sources.

One possibility under consideration involved the White Sox and Mets, who have offered third baseman Ty Wigginton and Class AA lefthander Matt Peterson for Benson.

The White Sox would have added a prospect for the Pirates and received a player from either the Pirates or Mets.

The Pirates, however, were not interested in the White Sox's prospects.

Meanwhile, the Pirates have reached an impasse with the Twins in their talks about Benson, and the Mets' offer is less than enticing. The Angels retain interest in Benson, as do the Braves.

No team is willing to give up top prospects for a two-month rental of Benson, who has a reputation for being "soft" and has never pitched in a pennant race. The Braves might be a good fit sense because Benson is a Georgia native who could thrive upon returning home, the same way that right fielder J.D. Drew has for Atlanta.


http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2611108



Apparently, our cupboard is bare...

ndgt10
07-30-2004, 10:56 AM
Apparently, our cupboard is bare...
I guess so....Oh well, we just have to play the cards that we have been dealt.

Evman5
07-30-2004, 10:56 AM
I just found this little doozy:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=inthedirtbensonwouldputt&prov=tsn&type=lgns

Then there's left fielder Cliff Floyd (http://bigleaguers.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5177/); he's starting to make noises about seeking a change of venue if his cranky Achilles' still is bothering him next season. He told Newsday that he'd approach GM Jim Duquette about being traded to an AL team and becoming a full-time designated hitter. In the past, Floyd has voiced his displeasure with being a DH during interleague games; his new outlook shows how painful playing the outfield is for him.


So what happens next year when Frank is back. Last time I checked we have enough people on this team that are DH's.

Jjav829
07-30-2004, 11:13 AM
I don't know how much it would factor in, but Floyd did grow up a White Sox fan. So while the injuries may be taking a toll on him, and he may want to become a full time DH, perhaps playing for the team he grew up rooting for would change his mind. Just a thought...

I would still prefer Kendall as I think he fits this team better. Floyd would be nice, but I think Kendall would improve the team more than Floyd would.

Evman5
07-30-2004, 11:15 AM
So as i said what happens if both want to be DH?

Aidan
07-30-2004, 11:15 AM
If Floyd needed to rest his feet every few games, Everett could play RF and Floyd could DH.

Evman5
07-30-2004, 11:18 AM
If Floyd needed to rest his feet every few games, Everett could play RF and Floyd could DH.
I was talking more about next year. When Thomas comes back and Floyd wants/needs to DH what will happen?

Aidan
07-30-2004, 11:20 AM
I was talking more about next year. When Thomas comes back and Floyd wants/needs to DH what will happen?Good question. Everett has a $4.5 million dollar option for next season but I don't see him declining it.

Rex Hudler
07-30-2004, 11:29 AM
The Pirates, however, were not interested in the White Sox's prospects.
Sounds to me that Sweeney in the end was not available. I can't see the Pirates not being interested in Sweeney. My guess is that KW was trying to include a mid or low-level prospect.

Chek2002
07-30-2004, 11:30 AM
Cliff Floyd has said he would like to play DH some. The Sox do not need any more DH's. Thomas if he comes back and Everett are already at DH. Valentin should also be playing DH if he plays at all, the last two games show why. Lee is not a good defender and should be playing DH as well but somebody has to play the outfield. The Sox need players who are good fielders. No more bad defenders.

OEO Magglio
07-30-2004, 11:30 AM
Sounds to me that Sweeney in the end was not available. I can't see the Pirates not being interested in Sweeney. My guess is that KW was trying to include a mid or low-level prospect.That's exactly what I was thinking.

Jjav829
07-30-2004, 11:37 AM
Cliff Floyd has said he would like to play DH some. The Sox do not need any more DH's. Thomas if he comes back and Everett are already at DH. Valentin should also be playing DH if he plays at all, the last two games show why. Lee is not a good defender and should be playing DH as well but somebody has to play the outfield. The Sox need players who are good fielders. No more bad defenders.
Lee has developed into a solid defender. No he won't win any gold gloves out there, but he has done just fine. I thought the "Carlos Lee should be a DH" talk had gone away. Don't tell me that his one misplay the other day has brought that back.

fquaye149
07-30-2004, 02:00 PM
Floyd AND Kendall would be awesome but I don't see it happening. But look at this lineup and drool...

C Kendall
CF Rowand
LF Lee
RF Floyd
DH Everett
1B Konerko
SS Valentin
3B Crede
2B Uribe

:o: :o: :o:

Explain to me why you insist on hitting cliff floyd 4th in every projected lineup you make and why you have paulie hitting 6th?

Now I know it's just conjecture. . .but what's the point of making a projected lineup if you're not going to put any thought into it?


:ozzie
"good thing I still make the @#$%@ lineups"

ma-gaga
07-30-2004, 02:16 PM
Lee has developed into a solid defender. No he won't win any gold gloves out there, but he has done just fine. I thought the "Carlos Lee should be a DH" talk had gone away. Don't tell me that his one misplay the other day has brought that back.I wouldn't worry about it. He's an average fielding leftfielder, and I'd say that he's above average with the bat. Don't try and make him any more or any less. Some people won't be happy with his defense/offense no matter what he does. Damn preconceived notions. He hits three homers in a week but misplays one flyball and all everyone talks about is that ONE out (which grounded out to the pitcher on the next pitch....).

That's just the way some people think. They never are completely satisfied unless the guy hits 30 homers, plays gold glove defense, never makes a baserunning mistake, can sacrifice bunt, hit to the opposite field, steals 30 bases, never complains to the media, makes less than $3MM a year, always speaks in cliche's, and can pitch out of a jam.

:gulp: Drives me to drink.

Aidan
07-30-2004, 02:33 PM
Explain to me why you insist on hitting cliff floyd 4th in every projected lineup you make and why you have paulie hitting 6th?

Now I know it's just conjecture. . .but what's the point of making a projected lineup if you're not going to put any thought into it?


:ozzie
"good thing I still make the @#$%@ lineups"Yeah, well Ozzie seems to like to put Konerko in the 5 spot anyways so I was just following suit. Look at Floyd's OBP versus righties. He would definately be in the lineup higher than Konerko.

StepsInSC
07-30-2004, 04:05 PM
Do we really need another DH who can hit in the middle of the lineup? We've got enough of those. How about someone who can get on base for that part of the lineup instead? Forget Floyd. I'd rather take a shot with what we have now.

hawkeyesrule
07-30-2004, 04:05 PM
That's just the way some people think. They never are completely satisfied unless the guy hits 30 homers, plays gold glove defense, never makes a baserunning mistake, can sacrifice bunt, hit to the opposite field, steals 30 bases, never complains to the media, makes less than $3MM a year, always speaks in cliche's, and can pitch out of a jam.

:gulp: Drives me to drink.
I nominate this for quote of the month. Awesome! The other issue I have with some of the postings here is the perception that all of the prospects you've ever heard of are going to be future all-stars. Look at all the deals that are done every year that involve prospects, and then look at the superstars in the game. Not too many were traded when they were prospects. Notable exceptions off the top of my head: Sosa, Giles, Bagwell, Kent, Freddy Garcia, Richie Sexson. Point being, not many "can't misss prospects" that are legit get traded.

habibharu
07-30-2004, 04:08 PM
I nominate this for quote of the month. Awesome! The other issue I have with some of the postings here is the perception that all of the prospects you've ever heard of are going to be future all-stars. Look at all the deals that are done every year that involve prospects, and then look at the superstars in the game. Not too many were traded when they were prospects. Notable exceptions off the top of my head: Sosa, Giles, Bagwell, Kent, Freddy Garcia, Richie Sexson. Point being, not many "can't misss prospects" that are legit get traded. agreed, but when you have a weak farm system in the first place, why would you trade your 2nd or 3rd best prospect for Cliff FREAKIN Floyd! this guy is an Ok player, but by no means a difference maker! I mean if we were like the A's or Scrubs, where we had a plethora of talent in the minors at every position, then we could do trades like this!