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otis
07-29-2004, 09:29 AM
Update that I have just heard from my guy are two names the Sox are seriously looking into: Frank Catalanotto and Jerry Hairston Jr.. Don't know if this excites you or not but it is information none the less.

Baby Fisk
07-29-2004, 09:30 AM
The Hairstons and the White Sox go hand in hand. You know who's pushing for that one, gang...

EDIT:

Grampa Hairston:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hairssa01

Papa Hairston:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hairsje01

Junior Hairston would make it a family trifecta! :cool:

Tekijawa
07-29-2004, 09:35 AM
Out of the to I'd probably rather have the "Big Squirt" Frank Catalanatto...

oeo
07-29-2004, 09:35 AM
Oooh..Catalonotto makes me very happy.

Thanks for the update Otis.

Win1ForMe
07-29-2004, 09:36 AM
Can we take both?

Mickster
07-29-2004, 09:36 AM
Better than nothing, I guess.

jackbrohamer
07-29-2004, 09:36 AM
At least Catalonotto can get on base. He was on the DL for a while in May, is he healthy now?

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 09:37 AM
Otis, this is great news, either one of them would be great to have at the top of the order, hopefully kenny does acquire one of them.

Evman5
07-29-2004, 09:37 AM
Update that I have just heard from my guy are two names the Sox are seriously looking into: Frank Catalanotto and Jerry Hairston Jr.. Don't know if this excites you or not but it is information none the less.



YES I HAVE SAID THIS ALL ALONG! Frank Catalanotto would be a perfect fit for us. He could lead off and is .300 hitter for his career. I did hear he had an injury, but he has been playing fine recently and I am confident Kenny wouldn't make a deal unless he knew he was healthy.

Mickster
07-29-2004, 09:43 AM
BTW, thanks, Otis, for keeping us informed...... :cool:

JDP
07-29-2004, 09:48 AM
Would acquiring Hairston bump the Uribe/Harris platoon from 2B, free Uribe to play 3B or SS (with Valentin at the other) and give us some wiggle room in possibly packaging Crede with something else for a bigger splash?

A Catalanotto acquisition would put him at a COF spot, DH'ing Everett, correct?

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 09:54 AM
Otis, is this deal close to happening or is it just that the sox are making a push for these guys?

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 09:55 AM
While I like Catalanotto and Hairston, I am not sure they would be enough to get us over the top. If we had Mags and/or Frank around, they would be perfect add ons but with out one of those two this offense will struggle. If they are available and be around next year, I would make the move if it doesn't cost too much.

Evman5
07-29-2004, 09:56 AM
Out of the two Frank Catalanotto is the better player, however, I like Hariston's speed too. Does anybody know how they are as bunters? They both play both corner outfield positions and all infield positions besides short.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 09:56 AM
Would acquiring Hairston bump the Uribe/Harris platoon from 2B, free Uribe to play 3B or SS (with Valentin at the other) and give us some wiggle room in possibly packaging Crede with something else for a bigger splash?

A Catalanotto acquisition would put him at a COF spot, DH'ing Everett, correct?
It would free Uribe and Harris to play the bench. As bad as Crede has been, Uribe has been five times worse lately.

BearSox
07-29-2004, 09:56 AM
Isn't Cattalanto the one who ran all over us on the bases in the baltimore series? It'd be nice to actually have speed that is willing to try and steal a base if thats the case! I'm all for it

Tmar281
07-29-2004, 09:57 AM
Isn't Cattalanto the one who ran all over us on the bases in the baltimore series? It'd be nice to actually have speed that is willing to try and steal a base if thats the case! I'm all for it
thats brian roberts

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 09:57 AM
Isn't Cattalanto the one who ran all over us on the bases in the baltimore series? It'd be nice to actually have speed that is willing to try and steal a base if thats the case! I'm all for it
No he is an outfielder in Tor. The guy who ran all over us is pushing the O's to trade Hairston.

Evman5
07-29-2004, 09:57 AM
Update that I have just heard from my guy are two names the Sox are seriously looking into: Frank Catalanotto and Jerry Hairston Jr.. Don't know if this excites you or not but it is information none the less.



Otis did you hear anything about what it would take to aquire these guys? Thanks for your update.

Erik The Red
07-29-2004, 09:59 AM
Isn't Cattalanto the one who ran all over us on the bases in the baltimore series? It'd be nice to actually have speed that is willing to try and steal a base if thats the case! I'm all for it Catalanotto is the one that went 6-for-6 against us one game during the 3-game sweep in Toronto.

Evman5
07-29-2004, 10:01 AM
No he is an outfielder in Tor. The guy who ran all over us is pushing the O's to trade Hairston.

Hairston is a decent basestealer himself!

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 10:02 AM
Frank Catalanotto played for Texas for a few years. He came from Detroit along with Gabe Kapler and Francisco Cordero in the Juan Gonzalez deal.

"Cat" always found a way to get on base, but he never really had a definite defensive position.

If I were the Sox, I'd love to have him DH and lead off. Everett could play right field.

Brian26
07-29-2004, 10:02 AM
Update that I have just heard from my guy are two names the Sox are seriously looking into: Frank Catalanotto and Jerry Hairston Jr.. Don't know if this excites you or not but it is information none the less.



Catalanotto is a hell of a grinder, and I mean that seriously. I've liked him ever since he was on Texas. He's a nice fit to maybe help jump start the offense, but I'm not sure he's enough to get us over the top.

LongLiveFisk
07-29-2004, 10:03 AM
I think Catalonotto would be good...he's a very scrappy ballplayer and hits pretty well. Hairston I am not sure about. I don't know much about him, except I remember Colon hitting him and his Nancy Kerrigan "why, why, WHY?!" response. :tongue:

Flight #24
07-29-2004, 10:05 AM
I agree with DD77 - if you can get Cat by basically taking on the contract and maybe throwing in a VERY low level guy, fine. But no Diaz, etc.

Cat-ARow-Lee-Everett-Koney-Val-Crede-Uribe/Harris-Burke is a hugely better lineup than replacing Cat with Timo/Borchard and moving Harris/Uribe up in the order.

The Southtown reports that KW's actually quietly continuing the Johnson trade. Now my guess is that he'd veto any trade to the Sox (unless he was pretty sure hat at least one of Frank/Maggs was coming back), but obviously that would be a huge move. Not sure how we can make an RJ trade work without giving up guys we need to hold onto like Crede & Rowand, but if we get Cat, maybe Borchard+Diaz+Cotts would be workable. That rotation and Cat/ARow as #1 & #2 in the lineup make us hugely better. A lot fewer solo shots....

Evman5
07-29-2004, 10:07 AM
Frank Catalanotto played for Texas for a few years. He came from Detroit along with Gabe Kapler and Francisco Cordero in the Juan Gonzalez deal.

"Cat" always found a way to get on base, but he never really had a definite defensive position.

If I were the Sox, I'd love to have him DH and lead off. Everett could play right field.

Wouldn't you rather have Catalanotto in Rf than Everett?

Baby Fisk
07-29-2004, 10:07 AM
Catalanotto is a hell of a grinder, and I mean that seriously. I've liked him ever since he was on Texas. He's a nice fit to maybe help jump start the offense, but I'm not sure he's enough to get us over the top.Cat is not enough to get us over the top, but he's definitely a grinder.

[sidebar rant]
Of course, now that he has become a semi-beloved Blue Jay, Toronto's Beanesque Boy Genius GM J.P. Ricciardi will trade him away while Toronto's greatest homegrown product (Delgado) prepares to walk at season's end. Ricciardi has treated Delgado like crap from day one and seems oblivious to the backlash he's creating locally. No wonder people stopped following baseball in Toronto in 1994 and never came back...
[/sidebar rant]

Evman5
07-29-2004, 10:13 AM
I agree with DD77 - if you can get Cat by basically taking on the contract and maybe throwing in a VERY low level guy, fine. But no Diaz, etc.

Cat-ARow-Lee-Everett-Koney-Val-Crede-Uribe/Harris-Burke is a hugely better lineup than replacing Cat with Timo/Borchard and moving Harris/Uribe up in the order.

The Southtown reports that KW's actually quietly continuing the Johnson trade. Now my guess is that he'd veto any trade to the Sox (unless he was pretty sure hat at least one of Frank/Maggs was coming back), but obviously that would be a huge move. Not sure how we can make an RJ trade work without giving up guys we need to hold onto like Crede & Rowand, but if we get Cat, maybe Borchard+Diaz+Cotts would be workable. That rotation and Cat/ARow as #1 & #2 in the lineup make us hugely better. A lot fewer solo shots....
I like that lineup except I wuold flip flop Burke and the URIBE/Harris platoon. I like the uribe/harris combo at the end of the order.

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 10:14 AM
Cat is not enough to get us over the top, but he's definitely a grinder.

[sidebar rant]
Of course, now that he has become a semi-beloved Blue Jay, Toronto's Beanesque Boy Genius GM J.P. Ricciardi will trade him away while Toronto's greatest homegrown product (Delgado) prepares to walk at season's end. Ricciardi has treated Delgado like crap from day one and seems oblivious to the backlash he's creating locally. No wonder people stopped following baseball in Toronto in 1994 and never came back...
[/sidebar rant]I think cat or hairston would really help put this team over the top. We need another on base guy and either guy would do that. Even without Frank and Maggs the middle of the order isn't the problem, if we could get Hairston or Cat and ozzie decides to make arow the number 2 hitter we're going to have two .300 hitters to get on base for carlos, carl, pauly, jose. What is it now 11 or 12 of the last homers the sox have hit have been solo blasts, that would definitely change if we can get another high on base guy at the top of the order.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 10:16 AM
The more I look at Cat's stats, the more I like him.

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=5907

Catalanotto is an aggressive gap hitter, and the numbers from last season epitomize a career-long preference for batting at the top of the order and hitting early in the count. In 438 combined at-bats in the leadoff and No. 2 positions, Catalanotto averaged .308 with 13 homers. Otherwise, he hit .216. He was a master at hunting for the first-pitch fastball, hitting .453 with an 0-0 count in 2003. He's a good situational hitter, willing to give himself up to move a runner. Over his career, Catalanotto has a history of hitting better with runners on base and in scoring position, as well as with the sacks full.
If he comes to the Sox and leads off, he won't get many bases loaded opportunities, but his addition to the team could change the lineup and the approach of the whole team.

If Harris/Uribe platoon at second base and #9 lineup position, they could be free to bunt for a hit more often, especially with two outs. If Harris/Uribe get on first, they can be free to try to steal second or try for the hit and run. Worst case, if they get caught stealing to end the inning, Cat will lead off the next inning.

More often than not, they will successfully steal second, meaning that Cat is more likely to see a fastball and more likely to hit the ball the gap, scoring a run.

Or, if they just pose the threat to steal second, Cat will see more fastballs and get more hits. Then Harris or Uribe can score from first on a double into the gap.

Then Rowand will come up with one (or two) men on base and see more fastballs, meaning he is more likely to get a hit.

Then comes the powerful part of the Sox lineup: Lee, Everett, Konerko and Valentin will see more fastballs with men on base.

Trading for the Cat would compliment and therefore manximize the Sox offensive talent. That's what I call a multidimensional attack. If and when Frank or Maggs come back, the Sox would be downright lethal.

:bandance:

mdep524
07-29-2004, 10:16 AM
Hmmm, though Brian Roberts might be the better of the two, Hairston isn't playing too bad himself so far this year: In 67 games he's hitting .305 with a .369 OBP and is 11 for 17 in stolen bases. (Roberts, by comparison, is .264/.338/25 out of 33).

We all know the merits of Frank Catalanatto, who is hitting .321 with a .362 OBP but only has 1 stolen base this year. After a torrid May, he has cooled off a bit in June and July, only playing 17 games in that timespan and hitting .263.

I think either would be good acquisitions- at worst they would be cheap and add some depth.

At best, they could do for the Sox what Shannon Stewart did for the 2003 Twins: energize a lackluster team and send 'em to the playoffs.

Erik The Red
07-29-2004, 10:17 AM
I'd rather have Cat, though Hairston certainly would be an upgrade as well.

Win1ForMe
07-29-2004, 10:18 AM
If we got both of them, that would put us over the top. They would eliminate two automatic outs (Harris/Uribe and Perez/Gload) in the lineup with very good production. Hope Kenny can get both of them.

BTW, Hairston is one year away from FA whereas Catalanotto is a free agent this year.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 10:18 AM
Hmmm, though Brian Roberts might be the better of the two, Hairston isn't playing too bad himself so far this year: In 67 games he's hitting .305 with a .369 OBP and is 11 for 17 in stolen bases. (Roberts, by comparison, is .264/.338/25 out of 33).

We all know the merits of Frank Catalanatto, who is hitting .321 with a .362 OBP but only has 1 stolen base this year. After a torrid May, he has cooled off a bit in June and July, only playing 17 games in that timespan and hitting .263.

I think either would be good acquisitions- at worst they would be cheap and add some depth.

At best, they could do for the Sox what Shannon Stewart did for the 2003 Twins: energize a lackluster team and send 'em to the playoffs.
Catalanatto is coming off an injury that why the reduce playing time.

It doesn't matter who is better between Roberts and Hairston since O's will keep the younger Roberts.

Flight #24
07-29-2004, 10:19 AM
I'd rather have Cat, though Hairston certainly would be an upgrade as well.Anyone know Hairston's contract situation? IIRC, he's got a few years before FA whereas Cat's deal is up after '04. I ask because I'd guess Cat will come cheaper, but Hairston would potentially be a longer-term solution @ 2B.

EDIT: like posts crossing in the ether, I see as I posted this it was answered.

Dice
07-29-2004, 10:29 AM
I love the deal. We're not desperate for hitters or pitchers BUT we're desperate for speed and grinders. Hairston and Frank C. would be the perfect fit.

The Big Squirt
07-29-2004, 10:29 AM
Out of the to I'd probably rather have the "Big Squirt" Frank Catalanatto...
Hey man..no stealing of my handle!

:)

TBS

mdep524
07-29-2004, 10:32 AM
If we got both of them, that would put us over the top. They would eliminate two automatic outs (Harris/Uribe and Perez/Gload) in the lineup with very good production. Hope Kenny can get both of them.

BTW, Hairston is one year away from FA whereas Catalanotto is a free agent this year.I agree that getting BOTH of them would be a serious upgrade for this lineup, while getting one would be good, I'm not sure how much difference it would ultimately make. Of the Hairston/Catalanatto/Kendall trio, I think its pretty important for the Sox to get 2 of those players to put us "over the top" and really solidify the 1 and 2 spots in our batting order.

mmmmmbeeer
07-29-2004, 10:39 AM
I agree that getting BOTH of them would be a serious upgrade for this lineup, while getting one would be good, I'm not sure how much difference it would ultimately make. Of the Hairston/Catalanatto/Kendall trio, I think its pretty important for the Sox to get 2 of those players to put us "over the top" and really solidify the 1 and 2 spots in our batting order.
I'd prefer Hairston personally. I wouldn't be upset if we got Cat, but I read that his injury still exists, he's just playing hurt. Seems his #s are down a bit due to that.

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 10:43 AM
Great news. Thanks Otis.

princek
07-29-2004, 10:43 AM
absolutely love this move, ive been clamoring for Catalanatto for weeks now, great top of teh order hitter who not only hits but hits when it counts as well, very clutch.

FightingBillini
07-29-2004, 10:46 AM
Lets get Hairston. Look at how good the last 2B we got from Baltimore turnded out.

In all seriousness, I think he would be a great fit. Besides being a "grinder", he grew up a Sox fan, the White Sox are in his blood, and he would feel pride in playing for the Sox. I dont know if thats true about most of our players.

E Coast Sox Fan
07-29-2004, 10:50 AM
Kendall is who we should be looking at. He's a good hitting catcher who can hit leadoff.

Catalanatto would be a waste. We have a ton of depth in the outfield. If Mags or Big Frank come back it will just create a traffic jam of too many good outfielders and not enough positions.

Kendall strengthens this team now and his value becomes exponential when Mags and Big Frank come back (assuming they do).

If his salaray is too high. Oh well. Let's worry about next year, next year.

Let's go get Kendall.

Otherwise, I don't see how those other guys help us to win the World Series.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 10:51 AM
My goodness. Trading for both Kendall and Cat really would re-make this team on the fly. Two high OBP guys at the top of the order, one lefty and one righty. Lee, Everett, Konerko and Valentin would get a TON of RBI opportunities.

Neither player would cost much in a trade, but the economics would be very difficult. That being said, if they got Kendall AND Cat, they would again be strong Series contenders without mortgaging the future.

Cat could be signed as a free agent, but Maggs would be gone for sure. Or, Lee and Konerko would have to be traded for young pitching to free up enough salary to retain Maggs and perhaps Valentin. Imagine a lineup of: Cat 1B, Kendall C, Maggs RF, Frank DH, Everett LF, Crede 3B, Valentin SS, Rowand/Borchard CF, Uribe/Harris 2B. That would be a TON of OBP at the top of the order with consistent .300 hitters at 1, 2 and 3. Imagine all the fastballs Frank would see with that many men on base in front of him. Or, Frank could move back to 3 with Maggs hitting cleanup. Decent speed, excellent balance and flexibility. Frank, Everett, Valentin and Crede each could have 125 RBI.

Mickster
07-29-2004, 10:56 AM
Let me adjust your post for you..... :)

My goodness. Trading for both Kendall and Cat really would re-make this team on the fly. Two high OBP guys at the top of the order, one lefty and one righty. Lee, Everett, Konerko and Valentin would get a TON of RBI opportunities.

Neither player would cost much in a trade, but the economics would be very difficult. That being said, if they got Kendall AND Cat, they would again be strong Series contenders without mortgaging the future.

Cat could be signed as a free agent, but Maggs would be gone for sure. Or, Lee and Konerko would have to be traded for young pitching to free up enough salary to retain Maggs and perhaps Valentin. Imagine a lineup of: Cat 1B, Kendall C, Maggs RF, Frank DH, Everett LF, Crede 3B, Valentin SS, Rowand/Borchard CF, Uribe/Harris 2B. That would be a TON of OBP at the top of the order with consistent .300 hitters at 1, 2 and 3. Imagine all the fastballs Frank would see with that many men on base in front of him. Or, Frank could move back to 3 with Maggs hitting cleanup. Decent speed, excellent balance and flexibility. Frank, Everett, Valentin and Crede each could have 125 RBI.

Evman5
07-29-2004, 10:58 AM
Kendall is who we should be looking at. He's a good hitting catcher who can hit leadoff.

Catalanatto would be a waste. We have a ton of depth in the outfield. If Mags or Big Frank come back it will just create a traffic jam of too many good outfielders and not enough positions.

Kendall strengthens this team now and his value becomes exponential when Mags and Big Frank come back (assuming they do).

If his salaray is too high. Oh well. Let's worry about next year, next year.

Let's go get Kendall.

Otherwise, I don't see how those other guys help us to win the World Series.
Frank Catalanotto can play multiple positons not only in the outfield. He has played games at 1b, 2b, 3b but he has played the majority of his games in the outfield.

Flight #24
07-29-2004, 10:59 AM
My goodness. Trading for both Kendall and Cat really would re-make this team on the fly. Two high OBP guys at the top of the order, one lefty and one righty. Lee, Everett, Konerko and Valentin would get a TON of RBI opportunities.

Neither player would cost much in a trade, but the economics would be very difficult. That being said, if they got Kendall AND Cat, they would again be strong Series contenders without mortgaging the future.

Cat could be signed as a free agent, but Maggs would be gone for sure. Or, Lee and Konerko would have to be traded for young pitching to free up enough salary to retain Maggs and perhaps Valentin. Imagine a lineup of: Cat 1B, Kendall C, Maggs RF, Frank DH, Everett LF, Crede 3B, Valentin SS, Rowand/Borchard CF, Uribe/Harris 2B. That would be a TON of OBP at the top of the order with consistent .300 hitters at 1, 2 and 3. Imagine all the fastballs Frank would see with that many men on base in front of him. Or, Frank could move back to 3 with Maggs hitting cleanup. Decent speed, excellent balance and flexibility. Frank, Everett, Valentin and Crede each could have 125 RBI.
That's not a bad lineup, the question is whether anyone will take Paulie's salary. IMO that makes it unlikely fthat they'll trade for Kendall without signign Maggs release. If they think the injury can help them keep Maggs, they won't get Kendall.

E Coast Sox Fan
07-29-2004, 11:00 AM
I'd go along with that.

Sox Mobile
07-29-2004, 11:00 AM
I'm going to bet the farm that is its between Hairston and Catalanatto, and they ask Ozzie his opinion, we will end up with Jerry.

I havent paid that much attenion to Hairston this year. But i lived in Baltimore in 01 and 02. He is a "scrappy" player but his judgment isnt always sound.

I have no idea if he has "grown up" in the last couple years, but he was benched quite a few times for not showing up on time, and for his temper tantrums at the plate. constantly throwing his helmet and the bat after a poor AB.

a very emotional guy but comes off like a nut case at times. it wore thin on the fans.

The up side is that whatever he has, he will bring in on full force.

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:03 AM
The Hairstons and the White Sox go hand in hand. You know who's pushing for that one, gang...

EDIT:

Grampa Hairston:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hairssa01

Papa Hairston:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hairsje01

Junior Hairston would make it a family trifecta! :cool:HAHA! Good post. I guess Ozzie is truly fed up with Willie Harris and Juan Uribe. Especially after what he was quoted saying about the top of the order. Hairston can play 2B, LF, and RF while Catalanotto can play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF. :tongue: However, Catalanotto is playing injured with pain...
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20040717&content_id=802456&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp

Toronto's left fielder was relieved to rejoin his teammates on Saturday, just one day after learning exactly what ails him. Catalanotto doesn't have a groin injury, as previously reported -- he has a three-inch tear in his right external oblique fascia, a diagnosis that brought closure to a two-month mystery.

CHISOXFAN13
07-29-2004, 11:04 AM
Kendall is who we should be looking at. He's a good hitting catcher who can hit leadoff.

Catalanatto would be a waste. We have a ton of depth in the outfield. If Mags or Big Frank come back it will just create a traffic jam of too many good outfielders and not enough positions.

Kendall strengthens this team now and his value becomes exponential when Mags and Big Frank come back (assuming they do).

If his salaray is too high. Oh well. Let's worry about next year, next year.

Let's go get Kendall.

Otherwise, I don't see how those other guys help us to win the World Series.

It would not be a waste. What's wrong with having a great bench? Also, it's going to take a heck of a lot more to land Kendall (and I'm not even sure Pittsburgh would deal him) than it would Cat or H, Jr.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 11:04 AM
That's not a bad lineup, the question is whether anyone will take Paulie's salary. IMO that makes it unlikely fthat they'll trade for Kendall without signign Maggs release. If they think the injury can help them keep Maggs, they won't get Kendall.
Boston and we take Nomar's, 11 million and throw in Jose. Just an idea thrown out there. New York could too, but not sure what they could offer back.

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 11:05 AM
I'm going to bet the farm that is its between Hairston and Catalanatto, and they ask Ozzie his opinion, we will end up with Jerry.

I havent paid that much attenion to Hairston this year. But i lived in Baltimore in 01 and 02. He is a "scrappy" player but his judgment isnt always sound.

I have no idea if he has "grown up" in the last couple years, but he was benched quite a few times for not showing (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=73,28012355,whitesoxinteractive .com,1) up on time, and for his temper tantrums at the plate. constantly throwing his helmet and the bat after a poor AB.

a very emotional guy but comes off like a nut case at times. it wore thin on the fans.

The up side is that whatever he has, he will bring in on full force.You know what, we could use a guy that wears his emotions on his sleeve.

PorkChopExpress
07-29-2004, 11:12 AM
Does Hairston come with B.J. Ryan? That would be awesome.

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 11:13 AM
Does Hairston come with B.J. Ryan? That would be awesome.Actually, now that you bring that up I've heard that the O's have been trying to package Hairston and a reliever(i.e. Ryan or Julio) in a deal.

HomerCoach
07-29-2004, 11:14 AM
You know what, we could use a guy that wears his emotions on his sleeve.
You mean like Aaron Rowand and Joe Crede?

Flight #24
07-29-2004, 11:15 AM
Boston and we take Nomar's, 11 million and throw in Jose. Just an idea thrown out there. New York could too, but not sure what they could offer back.
I don't see Boston taking Paulie with Millar hitting well and Ortiz there. I'm also not a big fan of Nomar away from Fenway. I'd rather hold onto the guys we have, pick up a Cat/Hairston cheap and then try to deal Paulie in the offseason when he'll be a 1-yr, $8mil player.

As for the Yanks - that's not a bad idea. Depending on what the long-term prognosis is for Giambi, I could easily see Big George taking a relatively cheap (for them) Paulie to play 1B for a year. Dioner Navarro wouldn't look bad in the Sox org. I don't know anything about him except that he's a solid prospect and plays C, but he'd be an upgrade over almost anyone in our organization.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 11:15 AM
That's not a bad lineup, the question is whether anyone will take Paulie's salary. IMO that makes it unlikely fthat they'll trade for Kendall without signign Maggs release. If they think the injury can help them keep Maggs, they won't get Kendall.
The fact that Paulie is among the AL leaders in homers, has put 2003 in the rear view mirror, and will be in the last year of his contract in 2005, might make him attractive to another team who is looking for a right-handed bat. It would have to be an offseason deal. Paulie will make, what, $8.5 million next year if traded ($8.0 mil on the Sox)? Paulie and Lee can get some decent pitching help in return.

Subtract Paulie's $8.0M, Lee's $7.5M and Valentin's $5M and that is $20.5M. Maggs can be re-signed for $14M after his injury. Kendall adds $9M and Cat would be about $4M. Everett will be, what, $4M? So it would be a net increase of $9.5M. This is doable with the increase in season ticket sales and revenues after a decent playoff run this year. Plus, with the right deal, Pittsburgh will pick up part of Kendall's salary, perhaps making it possible to re-sign Valentin at $3-4M.

It's not as unrealistic as one might think. :smile:

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:18 AM
Catalanotto / Hairston Comparison:

Frank Catalanotto (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5907)
193 AB
.321 AVG
.362 OBP
1 HR
25 RBI
1 SB
12 BB
23 SO


Jerry Hairston, Jr. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6127)
226 AB
.310 AVG
.373 OBP
1 HR
21 RBI
11 SB
19 BB
22 SO


I'd rather have Hairston. He's younger at 28 and is a base-stealing threat. Catalanotto is 30 and isn't a base-stealer. Get Hairston and put him in RF and keep Everett as our DH or Hairston could play 2B and Borchard in RF. As good as Catalanotto is, do you really want a guy who is playing injured? Haven't we seen what that can do to players? (Maggs and Frank anyone?)

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 11:25 AM
Better yet, get them both, or Cat and Kendall. Two of the three would make this team go.
Two of the three at the top of the order would be fantastic. It would transform the Sox into a better OBP team.

The only combo I wouldn't get would be Hairston and Kendall, because both are right-handed. I'd like some lefty-righty balance.

Otherwise, get on the phone Kenny.:bandance:

Tmar281
07-29-2004, 11:37 AM
i dont get why people want to trade Konerko, who is tied for the AL lead in homeruns:dunno:

and i would rather have hairston because we need speed for ozzieball

Lip Man 1
07-29-2004, 11:39 AM
Wasn't it on a thread on this site that some fans explained that Cat has a serious injury that's caused him problems and will have to be surgically repaired?

Also this was in the Daily Southtown Thursday under the Joe Cowley by line:

"White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has been told by general manager Ken Williams that there might not be much available for the Sox as Saturday's non-waiver trade deadline (3 p.m.) approaches.

Lip

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 11:45 AM
Wasn't it on a thread on this site that some fans explained that Cat has a serious injury that's caused him problems and will have to be surgically repaired?

Also this was in the Daily Southtown Thursday under the Joe Cowley by line:

"White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has been told by general manager Ken Williams that there might not be much available for the Sox as Saturday's non-waiver trade deadline (3 p.m.) approaches.

Lip
What is going on with Benson? I thought Minnesota would have had that deal done already. What gives?

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:46 AM
i dont get why people want to trade Konerko, who is tied for the AL lead in homeruns:dunno:

and i would rather have hairston because we need speed for ozzieballGood point on Konerko and agreed on Hairston. He has is the on base guy with speed that we need leading off. Cat is an on base guy but has no speed.
Wasn't it on a thread on this site that some fans explained that Cat has a serious injury that's caused him problems and will have to be surgically repaired?

Also this was in the Daily Southtown Thursday under the Joe Cowley by line:

"White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has been told by general manager Ken Williams that there might not be much available for the Sox as Saturday's non-waiver trade deadline (3 p.m.) approaches.

LipYes, Catalanotto will need surgery this off-season. He has elected to play injured with pain for the remainder of the season.
What is going on with Benson? I thought Minnesota would have had that deal done already. What gives?The Pirates are greedy after the horrible Aramis Ramirez trade of last season. They are probably asking Minnesota for Cuddyer AND Restovich. The Twins only want to give up Mientkiewicz and Restovich.

Palehose13
07-29-2004, 11:48 AM
Both would be great, but if I had to pick only one I would go with Hairston, Jr. He is a threat to steal and is younger, not injured, and signed for next year. Also, with his connections to the organization I bet it wouldn't be hard to keep him around for awhile.

Mickster
07-29-2004, 11:50 AM
The Pirates are greedy after the horrible Aramis Ramirez trade of last season. They are probably asking Minnesota for Cuddyer AND Restovich. The Twins only want to give up Mientkiewicz and Restovich.
Yet some people on this board think we can go out, get Kendall, get Pittsburgh to pay 1/2 his salary, and give up Ben Davis in return.....

Kendall is about as big a pipe dream as Randy Johnson.....

pczarapa
07-29-2004, 11:52 AM
Update that I have just heard from my guy are two names the Sox are seriously looking into: Frank Catalanotto and Jerry Hairston Jr.. Don't know if this excites you or not but it is information none the less.


It certainly excites me, I really like the both of them! They're both having good seasons and would certainly be an upgrade.

If memory serves though, doesn't Catalanotto play LF? Would he move to right? I know he's played a little 2b and 1b though.

Thanks again Otis, you are the man!

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 11:52 AM
What is going on with Benson? I thought Minnesota would have had that deal done already. What gives?
The Pirates are holding out for Jason Kubel but the Twins don't want to give him up. They are probably also listening to other calls, hoping that teams become more desperate as the deadline quickly approaches. But otherwise, it's probably only a matter of whether the Twins or Pirates cave to the others demands.

Aidan
07-29-2004, 11:57 AM
Both would be great, but if I had to pick only one I would go with Hairston, Jr. He is a threat to steal and is younger, not injured, and signed for next year. Also, with his connections to the organization I bet it wouldn't be hard to keep him around for awhile.Agreed, my sentiments exactly. :wink:
Yet some people on this board think we can go out, get Kendall, get Pittsburgh to pay 1/2 his salary, and give up Ben Davis in return.....

Kendall is about as big a pipe dream as Randy Johnson.....Kendall is a different story. The Pirates would dump him and his contract for nothing. He is due to make crazy money...

http://img53.exs.cx/img53/1065/Kendall.jpg

So Kendall is basically owed that plus up to a million dollars extra a year because of deferred money ($500,000) and possible award bonuses ($475,000). That is just a sick contract for a catcher. He can make up to $9 million this season, $11 million in 2005, $12 million in 2006, and $14 million in 2007. That is insane for any player. How the hell did Kendall get that deal is my question???

The Pirates offered him as a throw in to the Padres in the Giles trade last year and the Padres wouldn't even take him for nothing. They didn't want his contract either.

JB98
07-29-2004, 11:58 AM
Good point on Konerko and agreed on Hairston. He has is the on base guy with speed that we need leading off. Cat is an on base guy but has no speed.
Yes, Catalanotto will need surgery this off-season. He has elected to play injured with pain for the remainder of the season.
The Pirates are greedy after the horrible Aramis Ramirez trade of last season. They are probably asking Minnesota for Cuddyer AND Restovich. The Twins only want to give up Mientkiewicz and Restovich.
I would also cast a vote for Hairston over Catalanotto, although Catalanotto should come cheap since he is playing injured in his walk year. My preference is to ignore Catalanotto and get Hairston plus a reliever in a bigger deal with Baltimore.

The Twins haven't pulled the trigger on the Benson deal because there are multiple teams in the hunt for him. Texas, Anaheim and maybe even Boston would like to get Benson. It's a seller's market, and Benson is the best starter out there.

Also, for all you Friends of RJ, here's an excerpt from an SI story on Johnson this week:

"(Johnson) expressed to management only a desire to play for 'an actual playoff club' and 'not one that sees me as the missing piece that can get them in.'"

Sounds like he will only go to the Yankees and Cardinals by that standard.

steff
07-29-2004, 12:04 PM
Does Hairston come with B.J. Ryan? That would be awesome.

No to BJ. Baaaadddd attitude.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 12:06 PM
i dont get why people want to trade Konerko, who is tied for the AL lead in homeruns:dunno:

and i would rather have hairston because we need speed for ozzieballIn 2005, all things being equal, would you rather have Konerko or Maggs?

I like Konerko very much and he is a big reason the Sox aren't in a huge hole, but isn't it better to "buy low, sell high" if it can improve your team?

Also, if Kendall is so deeppink pipedream, can someone please explain what has changed with regards to Pittsburgh's situation from last winter, when they were willing to give Kendall to the Padres FOR FREE as part of the Brian Giles deal? I acknowledge that his salary is high; it's precisely why Pittsburgh wants to deal him and will take very little in return. For a little more in return, the Pirates will pick up part of his salary, making him more affordable.

Furthermore, Sox attendance is up this year! Higher attendance = more payroll. Also, getting the players to make a playoff run likely will result in a playoff run, which will increase advance season ticket sales for 2005. This means more money could be available to pay the salaries of the more expensive (but more talented) players they would acquire to get to that point.

But if Kendall is still such a bad idea, I like the idea of trading for Hairston AND Cat, although I don't know how much the Jays and Orioles would want in return, and if the Sox have enough to trade, without hurting the team or completely selling the farm, to get both.

I suppose that either Cat or Hairston would be a great addition, though.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 12:11 PM
Here's something to consider: how about pursuing both Cat and Gregg Zaun (switch-hitting C) from the Jays. Do we have enough to get both of them?

Or Hairston from the O's and Zaun from the Jays? Or all three? What would it take?

Mickster
07-29-2004, 12:11 PM
But if Kendall is still such a bad idea, I like the idea of trading for Hairston AND Cat, although I don't know how much the Jays and Orioles would want in return, and if the Sox have enough to trade, without hurting the team or completely selling the farm, to get both.

I suppose that either Cat or Hairston would be a great addition, though.Thing is, he's not a bad idea at all. In fact, that one trade would solve multiple problems at once. I have no doubt that JR will open the purse strings, just not that much. I also have no doubt that Pittsburgh will pay some of Kendall's contract for the right mix of prospects...just not that much. There is the problem.

Baby Fisk
07-29-2004, 12:20 PM
Here's something to consider: how about pursuing both Cat and Gregg Zaun (switch-hitting C) from the Jays. Do we have enough to get both of them?

Or Hairston from the O's and Zaun from the Jays? Or all three? What would it take?
Frater, you reminded me that I saw Zaun's name mentioned as a trade possibility to the Sox in a Toronto paper last week. I may have forgotten, or was supressing the memory, can't decide... :cool:

SoxxoS
07-29-2004, 12:25 PM
Wasn't it on a thread on this site that some fans explained that Cat has a serious injury that's caused him problems and will have to be surgically repaired?

Also this was in the Daily Southtown Thursday under the Joe Cowley by line:

"White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has been told by general manager Ken Williams that there might not be much available for the Sox as Saturday's non-waiver trade deadline (3 p.m.) approaches.

LipI wouldn't believe Joe Cowley if he said : "The sky is blue."

Otis has much more credibility. Seriously.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 12:30 PM
Frater, you reminded me that I saw Zaun's name mentioned as a trade possibility to the Sox in a Toronto paper last week. I may have forgotten, or was supressing the memory, can't decide... :cool:
Fisk, based on the fact that you have more knowledge of the Jays' needs/wants, what would the Jays expect to receive from the Sox in return for Zaun and Cat?

A lineup of Cat DH, Zaun C, Lee LF, Everett RF, Konerko 1B, Valentin SS, Crede 3B, Rowand CF, Uribe/Harris 2B would be decent, would get on base at a nice clip, would hit balls to right field and the gaps, and would allow the heart of the order to see more fastballs.

habibharu
07-29-2004, 12:34 PM
the big question for these trades is not who we get, but who we get up. KW is a moron if he tries to overpay just to get hairston. he is a decent player but he is not beltran or RJ. he cant give up anything more than a cotts or adkins plus a low level hitter

Baby Fisk
07-29-2004, 12:35 PM
Fisk, based on the fact that you have more knowledge of the Jays' needs/wants, what would the Jays expect to receive from the Sox in return for Zaun and Cat?
I don't pretend to be an expert on the Jays, but their bullpen is an absolute debacle. Maybe we could pitch the veteran leadership and mentoring abilities of Mike Jackson? :cool:

Mickster
07-29-2004, 12:36 PM
the big question for these trades is not who we get, but who we get up. KW is a moron if he tries to overpay just to get hairston. he is a decent player but he is not beltran or RJ. he cant give up anything more than a cotts or adkins plus a low level hitter
But there is the problem. All teams saw what KW gave up for Garcia (I don't want to re-hash that debate) and that will definately have a say in what teams expect from KW.

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 12:37 PM
I wouldn't believe Joe Cowley if he said : "The sky is blue."

Otis has much more credibility. Seriously.
Even so, there's nothing new in his statement. There may not be much available before the Saturday deadline. Or there may be a lot. That statement isn't exactly a surprise. I wouldn't be surprised if there are only a few moves made before Saturday and a lot more made after Saturday.

habibharu
07-29-2004, 12:38 PM
But there is the problem. All teams saw what KW gave up for Garcia (I don't want to re-hash that debate) and that will definately have a say in what teams expect from KW. yeah but Cat and hairston are not even close to garcia in terms of importance and talent

Mickster
07-29-2004, 12:38 PM
yeah but Cat and hairston are not even close to garcia in terms of importance and talent
I agree. But does Kenny?

Erik The Red
07-29-2004, 12:41 PM
I agree. But does Kenny? Don't be ridiculous. Anyone with a brain sees that they're not at the same level as a Freddy Garcia. KW HAD to overpay to get Freddy, did you want him going to the Yankees?

habibharu
07-29-2004, 12:42 PM
I agree. But does Kenny? well thats what i am sayin. if KW gives up what he did for garica for either of these guys, it will just add to the long list of KW screwups and screw us even more for the future!

Mickster
07-29-2004, 12:46 PM
Don't be ridiculous. Anyone with a brain sees that they're not at the same level as a Freddy Garcia. KW HAD to overpay to get Freddy, did you want him going to the Yankees?
What else does KW feel he HAS to do to salvage this season?

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2004, 12:51 PM
I don't pretend to be an expert on the Jays, but their bullpen is an absolute debacle. Maybe we could pitch the veteran leadership and mentoring abilities of Mike Jackson? :cool:
So they need young pitching?

For Zaun and Cat, how would the Jays like two of the following: Cotts, Munoz, Diaz, Adkins, Malone, Sanders, Stewart.

steff
07-29-2004, 12:53 PM
So they need young pitching?



I know a 6 year old with a nasty curve ball.. :D:

habibharu
07-29-2004, 12:56 PM
So they need young pitching?

For Zaun and Cat, how would the Jays like two of the following: Cotts, Munoz, Diaz, Adkins, Malone, Sanders, Stewart. i wouldnt even give them munoz and would DEFINITELY not give them diaz! I also think that adkins might have a good future. id give them stewart, whose still young, might be a starter, or has a chance to be a pretty decent lefty out of the pen

CWSGuy406
07-29-2004, 01:04 PM
At best, they could do for the Sox what Shannon Stewart did for the 2003 Twins: energize a lackluster team and send 'em to the playoffs.
Exactly, MDep. Great, great point. No one thought that a move of Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart would do much, yet it has totally sparked the whole Minny lineup. Hopefully, a move for Cat would do the same for us.

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 01:10 PM
i wouldnt even give them munoz and would DEFINITELY not give them diaz! I also think that adkins might have a good future. id give them stewart, whose still young, might be a starter, or has a chance to be a pretty decent lefty out of the pen
Good grief - if you think we can get Cat AND Zaun for Stewart, you're nuts and you're going to blast KW for overpaying if he makes a deal. Your expectations are completely unrealistic.

I agree about not giving up Munoz or Diaz, but you'd almost certainly have to give them two of the other guys (e.g., Cotts, Adkins, Stewart, Sanders, Malone, Meaux, etc., etc.).

habibharu
07-29-2004, 01:13 PM
Good grief - if you think we can get Cat AND Zaun for Stewart, you're nuts and you're going to blast KW for overpaying if he makes a deal. Your expectations are completely unrealistic.

I agree about not giving up Munoz or Diaz, but you'd almost certainly have to give them two of the other guys (e.g., Cotts, Adkins, Stewart, Sanders, Malone, Meaux, etc., etc.). im not talkin about gettin two guys. im just talkin about either hariston or cat. you cannot give up a talent like diaz or munoz for a 30 yr old OF!

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 01:49 PM
im not talkin about gettin two guys. im just talkin about either hariston or cat. you cannot give up a talent like diaz or munoz for a 30 yr old OF!
Now I get it; and I agree, particularly in light of the fact that Catallanato is an FA after this year (or so I'm told). With that said, if the Sox don't deal for him, I'd love to see them try to sign him in the off season as a FA; the Sox could really use a left-handed hitting, high OBP guy. Cattalanto fits the bill, he can play just about any position on the field, and he'd be pretty cheap (2 years at $2.5 million per year?).

Punko Paco
07-29-2004, 02:15 PM
:troll
"Kiss me full on the lips, Sammy!"

Aidan
07-29-2004, 02:19 PM
White Flag should be thrown now. The season is over. We got our asses handed to ourselves in front of big crowds at home with our studs pitching. We are are the same slow and stupid base running crew since 1983 and the Dibber. Nothing has changed. Still waiting around for the big HR and poor fundementals for years.:chickenlittle :selljerry

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 02:30 PM
White Flag should be thrown now. The season is over. We got our asses handed to ourselves in front of big crowds at home with our studs pitching. We are are the same slow and stupid base running crew since 1983 and the Dibber. Nothing has changed. Still waiting around for the big HR and poor fundementals for years.
Hey Paco I got an idea. Go to www.cubs.com (http://www.cubs.com). That is where people like you hang out and chat with each other about relavant topics such as, "Who is the cutest Cub?", "How many home runs will Sammy hit this week?", or my favorite, "What concrete problem?" I am sure you will find it much more enjoyable over there.

maurice
07-29-2004, 02:32 PM
I agree that Hairston would be a better pick up. In addition to being a local guy, he's younger, faster, and plays a competent 2B (IIRC) . . . creating an all-world, all-platoon IF of Harris/Hairston and Valentin/Uribe (check out the splits)!

:)

Cat would be a fine alternative but, as a kinda-sorta LF with no speed in a walk year, he is less valuable to a Sox team with an organization-wide concentration of OFs.

Soxzilla
07-29-2004, 02:54 PM
I personally say that we pick up hairston and kendall. Sure they are both righties, but it's not the right handed pitchers that are killing us these days, its the damn lefties. And a pair of bats like hairstion and kendall to lead off against lefties would be fantastic.

And pittsburgh has to give us some love, they fricken owe us for that Todd Ritchie trade.

Then of course, when you deal for hairston you pick up another reliever in that rumoured package.

And by the time these deals are over we won't have to deal with a few of these scrub players anymore:Cotts, Jackson, Davis, Gload, Borchard, Crede....etc.

Let's do it.

EDIT - Honestly guys, the way magglio played after coming back from his injury, would you rather pay him or kendall that kind of money? I personally say we just let magglio ride the free agency train to new york, and plan on letting crazy carl and hairston platoon the right field. I say we pay kendall the big bucks and completely dump the thought of resigning maggs, and keep konerko also. How can you guys even think of trading paulie after what he has done this year? Sorry, but magglio is dead to me. He doesn't bleed silver and black.

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 03:15 PM
I personally say that we pick up hairston and kendall. Sure they are both righties, but it's not the right handed pitchers that are killing us these days, its the damn lefties. And a pair of bats like hairstion and kendall to lead off against lefties would be fantastic.

And pittsburgh has to give us some love, they fricken owe us for that Todd Ritchie trade.

Then of course, when you deal for hairston you pick up another reliever in that rumoured package.

And by the time these deals are over we won't have to deal with a few of these scrub players anymore:Cotts, Jackson, Davis, Gload, Borchard, Crede....etc.

Let's do it.

EDIT - Honestly guys, the way magglio played after coming back from his injury, would you rather pay him or kendall that kind of money? I personally say we just let magglio ride the free agency train to new york, and plan on letting crazy carl and hairston platoon the right field. I say we pay kendall the big bucks and completely dump the thought of resigning maggs, and keep konerko also. How can you guys even think of trading paulie after what he has done this year? Sorry, but magglio is dead to me. He doesn't bleed silver and black.
I agree to a point; with Everett signed through next year, I'm inclined to let Maggs walk, particularly in light of his injury - with the caveat that if he's willing to sign for less OR willing to sign a short-term deal to prove his worth/durability (ala Ivan Rodriquez with the Marlins last year) I'd still do it. With that said, as much as I like Kendall, I wouldn't trade for him unless the Pirates pick up at least 1/2 of the remaining contract - otherwise, you're way overpaying Kendall with money that you could have used to sign, for example, Pavano, Clement, etc. That would be a really bad idea.

JB98
07-29-2004, 03:20 PM
I agree that Hairston would be a better pick up. In addition to being a local guy, he's younger, faster, and plays a competent 2B (IIRC) . . . creating an all-world, all-platoon IF of Harris/Hairston and Valentin/Uribe (check out the splits)!

:)

Cat would be a fine alternative but, as a kinda-sorta LF with no speed in a walk year, he is less valuable to a Sox team with an organization-wide concentration of OFs.
If we acquire Hairston, he's the every day 2B in my book. Uribe could play SS against lefties, and we could park Harris on the bench where he belongs. He is nothing more than a utility player/pinch runner. Right now, 2B is the weakest position on the team, weaker than RF and weaker than C.

Flight #24
07-29-2004, 03:24 PM
In an odd way, the Sox good move could come back to limit them. When Frank went down, Everett was a good move since it looked like Maggs was not resignable. However, with the injury, and possibility that he might not play again this year, I could see him taking the short term, cheaper deal (although I wouldn't mind him just accepting their last offer, which is supposedly still on the table). If so - all of a suden there's nowhere to play Carl, and you have a $4mil OF on the bench.

Unless you can deal one of Lee (moving Carl or Maggs to LF), or Paulie (moving Frank to 1B & Carl DHs, or maybe move Lee to 1B & Carl to LF).

If you can swing a good deal for Paulie or Caballo (get starting & relief pitching), then we'll be OK. But I don't see Carl having a ton of trade value, and I don't know that it'll be that easy to trade Paulie or Carlos. The Yanks were one team mentioned that would make sense, at least if Giambi's done.

Man Soo Lee
07-29-2004, 03:26 PM
I agree that Hairston would be a better pick up. In addition to being a local guy, he's younger, faster, and plays a competent 2B (IIRC) . . . creating an all-world, all-platoon IF of Harris/Hairston and Valentin/Uribe (check out the splits)!

Cat would be a fine alternative but, as a kinda-sorta LF with no speed in a walk year, he is less valuable to a Sox team with an organization-wide concentration of OFs.
I agree. It's also worth noting that Catalanotto hasn't played the field since mid-June, before his last stint on the DL.

On last Sunday's "Talking Baseball" show, Rooney and Levine said that Everett's shoulder was preventing him from playing the outfield.

CPditka
07-29-2004, 03:26 PM
I totally agree with you, if our team is going to be weighed down by a big contract, I would rather it is a need position like C. We have no one there. The future is as bright as a black hole at catcher. I would rather have Kendall than Maggs, I never thought I would say that, but Maggs is probably hurt for good in some capacity. He will only be able to play DH, and will probably never see the field again.

Kendall Please.

oeo
07-29-2004, 03:27 PM
EDIT - Honestly guys, the way magglio played after coming back from his injury, would you rather pay him or kendall that kind of money? I personally say we just let magglio ride the free agency train to new york, and plan on letting crazy carl and hairston platoon the right field. I say we pay kendall the big bucks and completely dump the thought of resigning maggs, and keep konerko also. How can you guys even think of trading paulie after what he has done this year? Sorry, but magglio is dead to me. He doesn't bleed silver and black.
I think Maggs played that way because of the fact that he was still injured. He wasn't anywhere near 100%, and you could tell by everything he did that there was something wrong with the guy. BTW, Kendall isn't going to happen.

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 03:30 PM
Hey Paco I got an idea. Go to www.cubs.com (http://www.cubs.com/). That is where people like you hang out and chat with each other about relavant topics such as, "Who is the cutest Cub?", "How many home runs will Sammy hit this week?", or my favorite, "What concrete problem?" I am sure you will find it much more enjoyable over there.
You I find it funny that people want blind optimism instead of baseball knowledge. Is that not the same thing we rip Cubs fans for? While I don't believe the season is over, we are not favorites and pretty big underdog to win the central right now. Thus some people are upset and think we should rebuild. Hell if we were bling optimist, wouldn't we be Cubs fans?

eshunn2001
07-29-2004, 03:32 PM
We need Hairston and Kendall. I don't care how, we just need em. They give us speed and nice OBP at the top of our order. I am not a GM making Millions to figure it all out, so I will not try. GET IT DONE KW ( and yes I believe KW can do it)

Brian26
07-29-2004, 03:32 PM
On last Sunday's "Talking Baseball" show, Rooney and Levine said that Everett's shoulder was preventing him from playing the outfield.

If we could just move Konerko back to his natural position of thirdbase, so many problems would be solved.

1917
07-29-2004, 03:33 PM
Kendall would be great but I don't see it happening, at all, not even a 1% chance....If there was even a whisper of it, ESPN would have got wind of it. I would like Harriston Jr, but if Kenny is going to pull something, it's really being kept quite...this may be our team guys and gals!

habibharu
07-29-2004, 03:34 PM
I think Maggs played that way because of the fact that he was still injured. He wasn't anywhere near 100%, and you could tell by everything he did that there was something wrong with the guy. BTW, Kendall isn't going to happen. even if we dont get kendall, there is no way in HELL that you sign maggs, unless somehow he takes a gigantic paycut, something like 10 mill a year

eshunn2001
07-29-2004, 03:36 PM
Kendall would be great but I don't see it happening, at all, not even a 1% chance....If there was even a whisper of it, ESPN would have got wind of it. I would like Harriston Jr, but if Kenny is going to pull something, it's really being kept quite...this may be our team guys and gals!
I seriously think Kedall could be had for Ben davis, But i do not know how much of Kendalls contract they would pick up if they only got Davis.

mantis1212
07-29-2004, 03:38 PM
even if we dont get kendall, there is no way in HELL that you sign maggs, unless somehow he takes a gigantic paycut, something like 10 mill a year
With Maggs' injury situation, he might not even get $10MM next year. From what I've heard, this type of injury might stay with him the rest of his career.
(did you mean a cut of 10MM or down to 10MM?)

Anyway, I don't see Maggs getting what he's looking for, but I see him signing a one year deal next year (with or without the Sox) and proving his worth of a long term contract.

habibharu
07-29-2004, 03:40 PM
With Maggs' injury situation, he might not even get $10MM next year. From what I've heard, this type of injury might stay with him the rest of his career.
(did you mean a cut of 10MM or down to 10MM?)

Anyway, I don't see Maggs getting what he's looking for, but I see him signing a one year deal next year (with or without the Sox) and proving his worth of a long term contract. down to 10 mil a year

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 03:41 PM
You I find it funny that people want blind optimism instead of baseball knowledge. Is that not the same thing we rip Cubs fans for? While I don't believe the season is over, we are not favorites and pretty big underdog to win the central right now. Thus some people are upset and think we should rebuild. Hell if we were bling optimist, wouldn't we be Cubs fans?
Take a look at all NINE of this guys posts. They are all extremely negative. Sounds like a :troll .

RKMeibalane
07-29-2004, 03:48 PM
Take a look at all NINE of this guys posts. They are all extremely negative. Sounds like a :troll .
Dadawg_77 is not a troll. He's just frustrated by what's been going on. He has been a member of this site for a few years, and this is the first time I remember him repeatedly saying anything negative. Believe me, if he were a troll, he would have been gone a long time ago.

Mickster
07-29-2004, 03:52 PM
Dadawg_77 is not a troll. He's just frustrated by what's been going on. He has been a member of this site for a few years, and this is the first time I remember him repeatedly saying anything negative. Believe me, if he were a troll, he would have been gone a long time ago.
Um....I think he was talking about Paco (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=9384).

Baby Fisk
07-29-2004, 03:53 PM
Take a look at all NINE of this guys posts. They are all extremely negative. Sounds like a :troll .I don't often agree with Dadawg, but he's no troll. A lot of people are feeling lousy after this series. Save this label for actual Trolls.

oeo
07-29-2004, 04:07 PM
even if we dont get kendall, there is no way in HELL that you sign maggs, unless somehow he takes a gigantic paycut, something like 10 mill a year I'm not saying we should go and make sure we get Maggs; unless he does take a decent pay cut, you've got to let him go. I was only saying that Maggs was still injured...that is why he played so badly.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2004, 04:15 PM
While I often disagree with Dadawg over events and ideas there is no question this guy is a damn good Sox fan.

Lip

steff
07-29-2004, 04:17 PM
Guys.. I don't think he was talking about the dawg...

Dadawg_77
07-29-2004, 04:23 PM
Take a look at all NINE of this guys posts. They are all extremely negative. Sounds like a :troll .
first off, I don't think was calling me a troll but rather Paco.

Look the Sox situation is bleak right now. The top two offensive weapons of the team are down, bottom part of the order isn't getting it done and recent history. There are several solid reason for people to be pessimistic about this team. Instead of calling someone a cubs fan, why not point out reason to have optimism for this team.

Soxzilla
07-29-2004, 04:23 PM
Kendall would be great but I don't see it happening, at all, not even a 1% chance....If there was even a whisper of it, ESPN would have got wind of it. I would like Harriston Jr, but if Kenny is going to pull something, it's really being kept quite...this may be our team guys and gals!
I have no iota of doubt that pitt wants to deal kendall faster than a cocaine pedler wants to dish out the smack. Seriously, and who blames them? That contract is huge.

What boils down to, is whether Jerry really wants to win a world series or not.

Apparently not.:(:

OEO Magglio
07-29-2004, 04:23 PM
Guys.. I don't think he was talking about the dawg...Your right, I'm pretty sure he was talking about paco.

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 04:35 PM
Your right, I'm pretty sure he was talking about paco.
Yep Paco is the one. I mean come on. He has nine total posts and all are NEGATIVE. He just became a member and he has said nothing but bleak stuff. IMO someone shouldn't just join out of the blue to trash talk the Sox' organization. But again, thats just my opinion. If you were a Sox fan, why would you join just as the Sox are doing bad? Most join when they are doing good. Oh well, just my opinion again.

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 04:38 PM
Here is Paco's greatest work in which a few church elders call him a troll. But I guess I get criticized for calling THAT SAME PERSON a troll. Wow I am beginning type like HANGAR.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37875

Erik The Red
07-29-2004, 04:40 PM
Yep Paco is the one. I mean come on. He has nine total posts and all are NEGATIVE. He just became a member and he has said nothing but bleak stuff. IMO someone shouldn't just join out of the blue to trash talk the Sox' organization. But again, thats just my opinion. If you were a Sox fan, why would you join just as the Sox are doing bad? Most join when they are doing good. Oh well, just my opinion again. Maybe he felt the need to vent, and was looking for a place to do so.

Questioning how much of a fan someone is by when they join is beyond weak, man.

CHISOXFAN13
07-29-2004, 04:44 PM
Maybe he felt the need to vent, and was looking for a place to do so.

Questioning how much of a fan someone is by when they join is beyond weak, man.
Nine posts about throwing in the white flag, the lack of hall of famers and the last five years being a waste is a bit beyond venting, IMO.

WSox8404
07-29-2004, 04:46 PM
Nine posts about throwing in the white flag, the lack of hall of famers and the last five years being a waste is a bit beyond venting, IMO.Thank you. Here is one more of his interesting posts.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37952

And again someone else calls him a troll. So get off my back.

StepsInSC
07-29-2004, 05:14 PM
I have no iota of doubt that pitt wants to deal kendall faster than a cocaine pedler wants to dish out the smack. Seriously, and who blames them? That contract is huge.

What boils down to, is whether Jerry really wants to win a world series or not.

Apparently not.:(:To play the devil's advocate. I don't see how you can just insinuate that because he might not be willing to take on Kendell's huge contract he doesn't want a World Series. That's going from point A to point C without even brushing by point B.

You said it all yourself:

Seriously, and who blames them? That contract is huge.

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 05:24 PM
I have no iota of doubt that pitt wants to deal kendall faster than a cocaine pedler wants to dish out the smack. Seriously, and who blames them? That contract is huge.

What boils down to, is whether Jerry really wants to win a world series or not.

Apparently not.:(:
That's really not fair. First, it's not like Kendall makes the Sox a sure fire WS winner (or even a sure fire playoff team). Plus, it would be beyond stupid to take on that entire contract. It you take on that entire contract there's NO WAY you can re-sign Maggs, there's no way you can get a top quality FA starter next off season, etc. If you're suggesting that JR should open his checkbook without any restraints whatsoever, well, then you're being entirely unrealistic, as there's only one owner in all of baseball with that philosophy or ability.

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 05:27 PM
There are several solid reason for people to be pessimistic about this team. Instead of calling someone a cubs fan, why not point out reason to have optimism for this team.
But the problem with Paco is that he doesn't really give any reasons for his pessimism - his posts are all hysterical doomsday rantings (not at all like a typical Cubs fan, by the way). There's no balance in his posts, no reason. That's why people have such an adverse reaction to him.

dickallen15
07-29-2004, 05:30 PM
A couple things. Levineline just said the Sox had NO interest in Hairston. Frank Cat. is hurt, some groin-like issue which requires postseason surgery and will keep him at about 60% speed the rest of the season. No thank you to him. Also, for everyone with a Jason Kendall obsesssion. Nobody wants to pay him the contract he is currently playing on. No one wants to pay him half of it. If they did, he would be wearing another uniform. All that, and he has a no trade, and would prefer to be on the west coast.

ndgt10
07-29-2004, 05:37 PM
A couple things. Levineline just said the Sox had NO interest in Hairston. Frank Cat. is hurt, some groin-like issue which requires postseason surgery and will keep him at about 60% speed the rest of the season. No thank you to him. Also, for everyone with a Jason Kendall obsesssion. Nobody wants to pay him the contract he is currently playing on. No one wants to pay him half of it. If they did, he would be wearing another uniform. All that, and he has a no trade, and would prefer to be on the west coast.
I guess what we have now then will have to suffice for the rest of the season.

Soxzilla
07-29-2004, 05:39 PM
To play the devil's advocate. I don't see how you can just insinuate that because he might not be willing to take on Kendell's huge contract he doesn't want a World Series. That's going from point A to point C without even brushing by point B.

You said it all yourself:
I'm sure we have someone in our organization that we could give to pitt for them to eat half that contract. I mean, Neil Cotts and Jamie Burke?

Come on now, to say you wouldn't give up something like that to have a kendall on your team.....your crazy, JR is crazy, and I'm gonna GO crazy if the SOX spoil another chance at a playoff appearance.:rolleyes:

On the other hand, would you rather pay magglio 10mm next year and take your chance with him playing up to par, or take on the kendall contract? Personally, if kendall gets here now, I say we make pitt eat some of that contract, dump some trash on pitt and ride jason's pine for the next few years and drop magglio at the yankee doorstep.

But that's just my wish.

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 05:49 PM
I'm sure we have someone in our organization that we could give to pitt for them to eat half that contract. I mean, Neil Cotts and Jamie Burke?

Come on now, to say you wouldn't give up something like that to have a kendall on your team.....your crazy, JR is crazy, and I'm gonna GO crazy if the SOX spoil another chance at a playoff appearance.:rolleyes:

On the other hand, would you rather pay magglio 10mm next year and take your chance with him playing up to par, or take on the kendall contract? Personally, if kendall gets here now, I say we make pitt eat some of that contract, dump some trash on pitt and ride jason's pine for the next few years and drop magglio at the yankee doorstep.

But that's just my wish.
Jamie Burke and "Neal" Cotts is not going to get Jason Kendall, especially if Pittsburgh is eating half of his contract. Jamie Burke is a good backup catcher, at best. He has little to no trade value.

Soxzilla
07-29-2004, 05:55 PM
Jamie Burke and "Neal" Cotts is not going to get Jason Kendall, especially if Pittsburgh is eating half of his contract. Jamie Burke is a good backup catcher, at best. He has little to no trade value.
Pittsburgh doesn't know that.

And Neal Cotts is still a young highly talented pitcher...c'mon!:rolleyes:

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 05:57 PM
Pittsburgh doesn't know that.

And Neal Cotts is still a young highly talented pitcher...c'mon!:rolleyes:
You're joking, right? I can't tell if your being sarcastic with the :rolleyes: .

doublem23
07-29-2004, 05:58 PM
You're joking, right? I can't tell if your being sarcastic with the :rolleyes: .
Maybe Soxzilla works at the park and has been given specific instructions not to let any Pirate scouts in. :tongue:

DrCrawdad
07-29-2004, 06:05 PM
Jerry Sr. & Essie would be thrilled if Jerry Jr. were on the Sox. Essie was really hoping that the Sox would draft Scottie. I guess the Sox had an eye on drafting Scottie but were looking to get him a couple rounds later.

I'm sure Jerry Jr. would love to play for the Sox. Jerry Jr. grew up a Sox fan (big surprise there). Jerry Jr. has always done well at Comiskey (The Cell). Of course, if Jerry Jr. gets traded to the Sox he won't have the luxury of facing Sox pitching.

I believe that Jerry Jr. would fit KW's description of a "grinder." Jerry Jr. is certainly a fiery little guy.

DrCrawdad
07-29-2004, 06:07 PM
Jerry Hairston Jr. is in tonight's line-up for Baltimore vs. the Yankees.

Mohoney
07-29-2004, 06:07 PM
I have no iota of doubt that pitt wants to deal kendall faster than a cocaine pedler wants to dish out the smack. Seriously, and who blames them? That contract is huge.

Didn't a previous thread here a couple of weeks ago say that Pittsburgh would give Oliver Perez to anybody who took on Kendall's contract?

If that's true, this deal MUST be made. Oliver Perez is the kind of guy that could really compliment Buehrle and Freddy and give us a very solid rotation in '05, '06, and '07.

PorkChopExpress
07-29-2004, 06:19 PM
Didn't a previous thread here a couple of weeks ago say that Pittsburgh would give Oliver Perez to anybody who took on Kendall's contract?

If that's true, this deal MUST be made. Oliver Perez is the kind of guy that could really compliment Buehrle and Freddy and give us a very solid rotation in '05, '06, and '07.
I like it. KW, get it done.

Jjav829
07-29-2004, 06:20 PM
Didn't a previous thread here a couple of weeks ago say that Pittsburgh would give Oliver Perez to anybody who took on Kendall's contract?

If that's true, this deal MUST be made. Oliver Perez is the kind of guy that could really compliment Buehrle and Freddy and give us a very solid rotation in '05, '06, and '07.
No way in hell will they part with Oliver Perez. It's not an option. They might give up Kip Wells if anyone takes on Kendall's contract, but there is no way they give away Perez. Perez and Sean Burnett will be the basis of their rotation for a few years (until they can't afford them anymore).

maurice
07-29-2004, 06:22 PM
You could get Kendall straight up for Burke. Kendall's contract gives him negative trade value. (If they put him on waivers, nobody would claim him . . . which means he might be dealt in August.) The question is how much are you willing to give to get X amount of salary relief from the Bucks. Given the Sox artificial payroll constraints, this usually is the central issue in KW's deadline deals. It's the modern day equivalent of selling players for cash.

Jerome
07-29-2004, 06:24 PM
Cat=Grinder. SI called him the supreme moneyball guy or something before the season because he gets on base a lot. And I recall Hairston Jr being very highly touted as a minor leaguer, but now they have no postition for him.

I would love either one of them but where in the order would they bat?

Chisoxfn
07-29-2004, 06:25 PM
Pittsburgh doesn't know that.

And Neal Cotts is still a young highly talented pitcher...c'mon!:rolleyes:
I think Pitt is more desperate then some think when it comes to unloading Kendalls contract and I, for one, would be exstatic if I were Gm of the PIrates and able to get rid of that contract (paying just a bit of it) while getting a very good young pitcher in Neal Cotts.

Cotts has a bright future, regardless of what some may think of him. He has a very deceptive fastball and really hitters are always behind him. He still has some work to do, but he's made good strides with his curveball and also has a solid changeup, plus the cutter he is honing.

He should be in AAA though, starting, but this experience at the major league level, is still invaluable.

Jerome
07-29-2004, 06:26 PM
You could get Kendall straight up for Burke. Kendall's contract gives him negative trade value. (If they put him on waivers, nobody would claim him . . . which means he might be dealt in August.) The question is how much are you willing to give to get X amount of salary relief from the Bucks. Given the Sox artificial payroll constraints, this usually is the central issue in KW's deadline deals. It's the modern day equivalent of selling players for cash.


huh? Kendall straight up for Burke? Is Pittsburgh really that desperate to lose his contract?

Chisoxfn
07-29-2004, 06:27 PM
No way in hell will they part with Oliver Perez. It's not an option. They might give up Kip Wells if anyone takes on Kendall's contract, but there is no way they give away Perez. Perez and Sean Burnett will be the basis of their rotation for a few years (until they can't afford them anymore). I'm wtih you on this jjav. I think I saw where they would give away Benson if someone took on Kendalls contract, but nothing in regards to Oliver Perez. IF they were willing to do that, then Kendalls contract is more then worth eating to get Perez.

Pipedream though..pipedream cause they ain't dealing Oliver Perez.

RKMeibalane
07-29-2004, 08:34 PM
Yep Paco is the one. I mean come on. He has nine total posts and all are NEGATIVE. He just became a member and he has said nothing but bleak stuff. IMO someone shouldn't just join out of the blue to trash talk the Sox' organization. But again, thats just my opinion. If you were a Sox fan, why would you join just as the Sox are doing bad? Most join when they are doing good. Oh well, just my opinion again.
Thanks for clearing that up. I actually called Paco a troll in another thread earlier today. The man just can't find anything positive to say about the Sox.

Soxzilla
07-29-2004, 08:56 PM
You're joking, right? I can't tell if your being sarcastic with the :rolleyes: .
Cotts definitely has a future in the major leagues.

And it was benson that they wanted to package with kendall. But then your more than likely eating up all of that salary. I'd personally forget benson, let pirates eat half the salary in any offer we make with them, then grab hairston and a reliever (Julio or ryan) in another trade, that or urbina from detroit and hairston.

I should have put that in teal though, your right:).

Lip Man 1
07-29-2004, 09:26 PM
Unless Neil Cotts learnes to stop walking people he's going to have a hard time in the big leagues.


Lip

pczarapa
07-29-2004, 09:41 PM
Unless Neil Cotts learnes to stop walking people he's going to have a hard time in the big leagues.


Lip
At least he threw well tonight, only an inning, but it was a good one

steff
07-30-2004, 05:38 AM
I'm sure Jerry Jr. would love to play for the Sox.


I got mixed messages from him when they were here earlier. I'm not so sure he wants to play here...