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mealfred13
07-29-2004, 03:37 AM
Very interesting Ozzie quotes, and stats. Here's an excerpt:


"We are going to find a leadoff guy," Guillen said. "If what we have is not doing the job, I will tell Kenny
Williams to get me someone to get on base. That's what we need. We need some people to get on base. We
lead the nation, we lead the history of baseball, in solo home runs.

"I don't see any team in baseball, ever, hit so many solo home runs. That's what we are doing right now."

Guillen's supposition is supported in fact. The White Sox lead baseball with 90 solo home runs, including Ben Davis' blast in the fifth inning Wednesday, and rank 28th in the amount of at-bats with runners in scoring position.

A missing perfect combination at the top of the order certainly hasn't developed from a lack of searching by
Guillen. Rowand, getting a rest Wednesday, figures to belong in one of those first two
spots with a .360 average (18-for-50) hitting second and a .357 average (42-for-115) leading off. Perez is hitting .326 as a leadoff hitter but only .125 in the No. 2 spot."
The thing that bothers me most is the 28th rank for at-bats with RISP. That's pretty bad. Looks like we need to work on moving runners along and driving in runs. It's hard to score if you don't leave first.

Granted, we have a powerful lineup and alot of times we may score from first on a double, but I don't think we do that enough to put us in 28th place, especially with our lack of speed.

Here's the full article: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040728&content_id=812452&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

EDIT:

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 90 solo homeruns over HALF of our homerun total? That's pretty sad. And IIRC, most of the multiple run homers we've had were from Magglio, who is no longer in the lineup.

And, it looks like our lineup should be starting Timo, Rowand for the foreseeable future, until Ozzie starts begging KW for a leadoff man.

idseer
07-29-2004, 08:11 AM
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 90 solo homeruns over HALF of our homerun total? That's pretty sad. And IIRC, most of the multiple run homers we've had were from Magglio, who is no longer in the lineup.

And, it looks like our lineup should be starting Timo, Rowand for the foreseeable future, until Ozzie starts begging KW for a leadoff man.
i'd reserve judgement on whether that's sad or not. first i'd like to know what the average situation is for any batter coming to the plate. is it more likely to be with 0, 1, 2, or 3 men on? if, in fact a batter is expected to come to the plate with no one on more than 50% of the time then no .... it's not sad. it's to be expected.
it seems to me that thomas has ALWAYS hit more solo homers than any other kind, whether or not we've had good on-base guys in front of him.
maybe a better question is .... how many homeruns with men on base do we have compared to all the other teams? are we in last place there? if we're somewhere in the middle then the problem isn't as bad as you think.

Iguana775
07-29-2004, 08:34 AM
Sox need to get Kendell and let him and Rowand hit at the top of the order.

gosox41
07-29-2004, 08:39 AM
Very interesting Ozzie quotes, and stats. Here's an excerpt:

The thing that bothers me most is the 28th rank for at-bats with RISP. That's pretty bad. Looks like we need to work on moving runners along and driving in runs. It's hard to score if you don't leave first.

Granted, we have a powerful lineup and alot of times we may score from first on a double, but I don't think we do that enough to put us in 28th place, especially with our lack of speed.

Here's the full article: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040728&content_id=812452&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

EDIT:

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 90 solo homeruns over HALF of our homerun total? That's pretty sad. And IIRC, most of the multiple run homers we've had were from Magglio, who is no longer in the lineup.

And, it looks like our lineup should be starting Timo, Rowand for the foreseeable future, until Ozzie starts begging KW for a leadoff man.

But Beane has it all wrong. OBP doesn't matter a lick What's he ever won?

Oh yeah, to state a fact, the Sox are now 3 games behind Oakland for the Wild Card spot.


Bob

mealfred13
07-29-2004, 11:25 PM
i'd reserve judgement on whether that's sad or not. first i'd like to know what the average situation is for any batter coming to the plate. is it more likely to be with 0, 1, 2, or 3 men on? if, in fact a batter is expected to come to the plate with no one on more than 50% of the time then no .... it's not sad. it's to be expected.
it seems to me that thomas has ALWAYS hit more solo homers than any other kind, whether or not we've had good on-base guys in front of him.
maybe a better question is .... how many homeruns with men on base do we have compared to all the other teams? are we in last place there? if we're somewhere in the middle then the problem isn't as bad as you think.
Well the problem is the two taken hand-in-hand. The fact that we lead the league in solo homeruns alone is not a major issue. The big problem is that we are also essentially at the bottom of the majors at 28th in number of at-bats WITHOUT runners in scoring position. The solo homeruns alone aren't the biggest issue, it's the fact that the guys hitting them are more than likely coming up to bat with no one on, therefore only being able to hit a solo homerun.

Found some more stats as well. We are LAST in the majors in runners left on base, but we have the third highest average with runners in scoring position, behind only the Tigers and Angels. And, like you thought, idseer, we are 5th in the majors in homeruns with runners in scoring postion and 7th in the majors in homeruns with men on 1st.

So, no, it's still not sad that we have 90 solo homeruns in and of itself. But taken with the fact that we have the lowest LOB total with one of the highest team averages with RISP, one of 2 things is apparent: Either we aren't getting enough people on base, or this team has little to no clutch. Judging from our 12th place in OBP, and 8th place total bases, I have to think we have no clutch.

Also, our team stats and splits are better than the Twins in nearly every category offensively. We also have higher average fielding percentage and less errors than the Twins; in both cases we are nearly in the middle of the pack, give or a take a team. As far as Runs Allowed and Earned Runs Allowed, we're again at the middle of the pack and better than the Twins.

I guess we just don't get the job done when it counts, because statistically, we should be beating the crap out of the Twins by several games. This past series just proved that fact that we can't hit when we need to, and the season on the whole has shown that we can get tons of hits and runs when we don't need them in blowouts. THAT is sad.

quakeroats
07-29-2004, 11:50 PM
The problem is earlier in the season we had Uribe, Harris and Perez all getting on base ALOT more, and we also had Frank and Maggs. The loss of our two big guys is HUGE. It didn't become apparent til early July when we started to see the early season hitting turning into solo homeruns and then Frank out and then Maggs back and again out. It would be like the Cardinals losing Pujols and Rolen... its that huge. Frank and Maggs not only hit alot of homeruns but they were also our best hitters. Lee and Konerko are good, but Maggs and Thomas were just better (when healthy).

oh well.

:supernana: :bandance: :)

Deadguy
07-29-2004, 11:55 PM
I miss Tony Phillips. He was the last legitimate lead off hitter we've had. The man was just full of intensity and did whatever it took to get on base.

Since then we've just stuck speedsters who have poor OBPs and/or uppercut swnigs. Jason Kendall could provide us with a things we haven't seen from a leadoff hitter since Phillips was traded. It may be too little, too late for this season, but he would be a tremendous addition for the next few years.

mealfred13
07-30-2004, 12:04 AM
The problem is earlier in the season we had Uribe, Harris and Perez all getting on base ALOT more, and we also had Frank and Maggs. The loss of our two big guys is HUGE. It didn't become apparent til early July when we started to see the early season hitting turning into solo homeruns and then Frank out and then Maggs back and again out. It would be like the Cardinals losing Pujols and Rolen... its that huge. Frank and Maggs not only hit alot of homeruns but they were also our best hitters. Lee and Konerko are good, but Maggs and Thomas were just better (when healthy).

oh well.

:supernana: :bandance: :)

The weird thing is, having runners on base doesn't seem to be the problem! We have a middling to decent OBP at 12th in the majors, and we're 4th in OPS. Obviously we get guys on base, but the problem is we do it all in a small amount of games, while we do nothing in other games. Streakiest team in baseball. Either we're on or off, and when we're on it's ridiculous and quickly dies out.

jordan23ventura
07-30-2004, 12:07 AM
I miss Tony Phillips. He was the last legitimate lead off hitter we've had. The man was just full of intensity and did whatever it took to get on base.

Since then we've just stuck speedsters who have poor OBPs and/or uppercut swnigs. Jason Kendall could provide us with a things we haven't seen from a leadoff hitter since Phillips was traded. It may be too little, too late for this season, but he would be a tremendous addition for the next few years.
I miss Tony Phillips, too. And Tim Raines. And basically the whole team that the Sox had before the strike. That was the best all-around team this city has seen in a while - a long while.

TornLabrum
07-30-2004, 12:14 AM
The problem is earlier in the season we had Uribe, Harris and Perez all getting on base ALOT more, and we also had Frank and Maggs. The loss of our two big guys is HUGE. It didn't become apparent til early July when we started to see the early season hitting turning into solo homeruns and then Frank out and then Maggs back and again out. It would be like the Cardinals losing Pujols and Rolen... its that huge. Frank and Maggs not only hit alot of homeruns but they were also our best hitters. Lee and Konerko are good, but Maggs and Thomas were just better (when healthy).

oh well.

:supernana: :bandance: :)
I don't see how you can say the loss of Maggs and/or Frank didn't show up until early July. IIRC our record while Maggs was on the DL the first time was below .500. And it hasn't been pretty since they've both been out....

JRIG
07-30-2004, 12:50 AM
But Beane has it all wrong. OBP doesn't matter a lick What's he ever won?

Oh yeah, to state a fact, the Sox are now 3 games behind Oakland for the Wild Card spot.


Bob
Yeah, but how many World Series has he won?

milrtyme28
07-30-2004, 02:21 AM
it seems like we get plenty of guys on base but we seem to leave them there - then, the next inning when the bases are clear we get a grounder to short, a solo homer, followed up by an infield pop up and a strikeout.

This is not supported by any stats, but It is just the feeling iam getting over the last 2 weeks or so - why cant we get anyone in?!?!? This has been an unbelievable frustrating team to watch lately.

I am wallowing in self pity and not answering my phone tonight as my flubbie fan friends are calling to razz me :angry: :whiner:


sorry about the spelling - it is off because i am drowning my sorrows. :gulp:

gosox41
07-30-2004, 09:29 AM
Yeah, but how many World Series has he won?
Same number as KW. But how many many playoff appearances has he made? We can through all this garbage about he's never won a series, etc. But he's building teams that are at least making the playoffs. You've got go be in it to win it and they're at least playing meaningful games in October. Whath ave we got? A 2003 team that would be tough to beat in a short series....if only they could get to the playoffs?

Come on. You can't be telling me that you're happier now finishing in second place for the last 3 (hopefully not 4) years then you would be making the playoffs 3 years in a row to give yourself a chance. It's only all or nothing, World Series champ or Bust for one team a year Doesn't mean all the other teams are bad.


Bob

fquaye149
07-30-2004, 01:43 PM
Same number as KW. But how many many playoff appearances has he made? We can through all this garbage about he's never won a series, etc. But he's building teams that are at least making the playoffs. You've got go be in it to win it and they're at least playing meaningful games in October. Whath ave we got? A 2003 team that would be tough to beat in a short series....if only they could get to the playoffs?

Come on. You can't be telling me that you're happier now finishing in second place for the last 3 (hopefully not 4) years then you would be making the playoffs 3 years in a row to give yourself a chance. It's only all or nothing, World Series champ or Bust for one team a year Doesn't mean all the other teams are bad.


Bob

NO! don't turn this thread into this. both of you.