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View Full Version : Otis, are your there???


WSox8404
07-28-2004, 12:49 PM
I am getting ancy otis and wanted to see if you heard anything.

otis
07-28-2004, 01:57 PM
Things are quiet on the White Sox front. From what I hear, don't expect them to get a big name unless they are willing to trade Crede. Unfortunately it is a seller's market, ironically set by Kenny Williams. Based on the Garcia package (young ml future star, top prospect, and midlevel prospect), the Sox don't have a lot to offer right now. Two month's ago , both Borchard & Cotts were considered prime trading pieces, but that is not the case now. KW is trying hard to add another hitter and bullpen arm to this team and even has the Reinsdorf OK to add money. My source doesn't expect many trades before the July 31st deadline, but expects more trades before the waiver deadline when more teams are out. I asked him what it would take to get Beltran and his response was Crede, Rowand, and a pitching prospect. OUCH!!

Kogs35
07-28-2004, 02:00 PM
Things are quiet on the White Sox front. From what I hear, don't expect them to get a big name unless they are willing to trade Crede. Unfortunately it is a seller's market, ironically set by Kenny Williams. Based on the Garcia package (young ml future star, top prospect, and midlevel prospect), the Sox don't have a lot to offer right now. Two month's ago , both Borchard & Cotts were considered prime trading pieces, but that is not the case now. KW is trying hard to add another hitter and bullpen arm to this team and even has the Reinsdorf OK to add money. My source doesn't expect many trades before the July 31st deadline, but expects more trades before the waiver deadline when more teams are out. I asked him what it would take to get Beltran and his response was Crede, Rowand, and a pitching prospect. OUCH!!
doesnt houston have ensberg at 3rd?

Foulke29
07-28-2004, 02:20 PM
doesnt houston have ensberg at 3rd?
Yes, but Ensberg has been hitting like a tool, and is really more of a 1B. Bagwell's not going to have many more years in a Houston uniform, and they'll be ready to put Ensberg right there.

SoxxoS
07-28-2004, 02:23 PM
Yes, but Ensberg has been hitting like a tool, and is really more of a 1B. Bagwell's not going to have many more years in a Houston uniform, and they'll be ready to put Ensberg right there.
I think Ensburg is taking the Willie Harris guide to Home Runs...which Im sure makes Houston want to

:chunks

Foulke29
07-28-2004, 02:24 PM
I think Ensburg is taking the Willie Harris guide to Home Runs...which Im sure makes Houston want to

:chunks
Dear Lord... now that's gross. :gulp:

munchman33
07-28-2004, 02:31 PM
Things are quiet on the White Sox front. From what I hear, don't expect them to get a big name unless they are willing to trade Crede. Unfortunately it is a seller's market, ironically set by Kenny Williams. Based on the Garcia package (young ml future star, top prospect, and midlevel prospect), the Sox don't have a lot to offer right now. Two month's ago , both Borchard & Cotts were considered prime trading pieces, but that is not the case now. KW is trying hard to add another hitter and bullpen arm to this team and even has the Reinsdorf OK to add money. My source doesn't expect many trades before the July 31st deadline, but expects more trades before the waiver deadline when more teams are out. I asked him what it would take to get Beltran and his response was Crede, Rowand, and a pitching prospect. OUCH!!
I'd still make that deal for Beltran, moving Uribe to third. He's a very special talent.

I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is for this team to win this year. We don't have a ton of ready talent in the minor leagues, and our current roster is getting more expensive. If we have a shot at it this year, we better take it. Next year might be too late.

SoxxoS
07-28-2004, 02:41 PM
I'd still make that deal for Beltran, moving Uribe to third. He's a very special talent.

I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is for this team to win this year. We don't have a ton of ready talent in the minor leagues, and our current roster is getting more expensive. If we have a shot at it this year, we better take it. Next year might be too late.
If KW can anticipate a 3B signing in FA (b/c Uribe isn't going to cut it full time) then I would pull the trigger for Beltran. Then I would give the Maggs money for Beltran.

Put its not going to happen b/c of Scott Boras, so know sense thinking about it.

soxtalker
07-28-2004, 02:53 PM
...

I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is for this team to win this year. We don't have a ton of ready talent in the minor leagues, and our current roster is getting more expensive. If we have a shot at it this year, we better take it. Next year might be too late.
This argument has been repeated many times. While I understand it as a fan, it strikes me as a potential disaster for the franchise. KW can completely clean out the farm system to acquire top talent, and we won't be assured of winning. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't try. Just that chance is always involved. Nothing is guaranteed.) But, say that it works out, and we win it all this year. Then the next few years, as our stars age, we become a very mediocre team. Attendance goes down -- fast -- based on White Sox history. I'm not trying to be negative here, but, if you're the GM, you've got to also keep an eye out for the future.

Tekijawa
07-28-2004, 02:53 PM
I'd still make that deal for Beltran, moving Uribe to third. He's a very special talent.

I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is for this team to win this year. We don't have a ton of ready talent in the minor leagues, and our current roster is getting more expensive. If we have a shot at it this year, we better take it. Next year might be too late.
I don't know if many of you realize it but the team that ends up with beltran at the end of the season will the the only team GUARANTEED NOT TO GET HIM NEXT YEAR. Boras loves to got to FA, and that will essentially lock the team that has him into waiting until may 15th, see Carl Everett for this, to sign him again, by then he'll be brining in milions for another team. And Crede, Roand and Pitching prospects for 2 months of beltran is WAY TO STEEP! Kenny's already given to much away for what we've gotten back and now you want to give up a quality thirbaseman and go into next season with everet, lee, borchard, sweeney, timo all battling for 3 outfield spots..... that last thought alone is enough to keep me up late at night trying to figure out who my new favorite team would be!

Man Soo Lee
07-28-2004, 02:59 PM
I don't know if many of you realize it but the team that ends up with beltran at the end of the season will the the only team GUARANTEED NOT TO GET HIM NEXT YEAR. Boras loves to got to FA, and that will essentially lock the team that has him into waiting until may 15th, see Carl Everett for this, to sign him again, by then he'll be brining in milions for another team.
We couldn't negotiate with Everett because we did not offer arbitration. The team that has Beltran will.

Foulke29
07-28-2004, 03:10 PM
Why don't we go for Larry Walker?

habibharu
07-28-2004, 06:34 PM
I'd still make that deal for Beltran, moving Uribe to third. He's a very special talent.

I don't think a lot of people realize how important it is for this team to win this year. We don't have a ton of ready talent in the minor leagues, and our current roster is getting more expensive. If we have a shot at it this year, we better take it. Next year might be too late. the only way that we do this deal is if we can somehow guarantee that beltran will sign here, which is not gonna happen.

dickallen15
07-28-2004, 06:47 PM
We couldn't negotiate with Everett because we did not offer arbitration. The team that has Beltran will.
The Sox were able to negotiate with Carl up to the deadline for offerring arbitration. Carl could have re signed here for any amount.They then could have offered him arbitration, with an understanding he would decline it, which would have bought them another week or more of negotiating. This happened with David Wells and the Yankees.

WHarris13
07-28-2004, 08:05 PM
Things are quiet on the White Sox front. From what I hear, don't expect them to get a big name unless they are willing to trade Crede. Unfortunately it is a seller's market, ironically set by Kenny Williams. Based on the Garcia package (young ml future star, top prospect, and midlevel prospect), the Sox don't have a lot to offer right now. Two month's ago , both Borchard & Cotts were considered prime trading pieces, but that is not the case now. KW is trying hard to add another hitter and bullpen arm to this team and even has the Reinsdorf OK to add money. My source doesn't expect many trades before the July 31st deadline, but expects more trades before the waiver deadline when more teams are out. I asked him what it would take to get Beltran and his response was Crede, Rowand, and a pitching prospect. OUCH!!Ugh, don't like the sounds of this. I hope we can get at least a pen arm and a decent bat. I guess we alrady made our 2 big trades...

Thanks for the info Otis!

habibharu
07-28-2004, 08:09 PM
we shouldnt make any trades. we have already KILLED our farm system! just keep the team we have and see where it takes us! if we dont make the playoffs, then KW is gone, and we start fresh next year

AnkleSox
07-28-2004, 08:20 PM
The way I see it, this year is our best chance to win it all for a while. With the core players eventually getting free agency and likely to walk, we're going to have to be in a rebuilding stage anyways, much like the indians and tigers of the past few years.

So either the Sox become a mediocre team for a few years after this with their decent minor leaguers, or become a really crappy team for a while which will get them a better place in the draft eventually.

Lip Man 1
07-28-2004, 08:23 PM
Unless Kenny Williams resigns for personal reasons or unless the Sox get new ownership he'll be the G.M. as long as he wishes.


Lip

habibharu
07-28-2004, 08:59 PM
Unless Kenny Williams resigns for personal reasons or unless the Sox get new ownership he'll be the G.M. as long as he wishes.


Lip why do you say that?

OEO Magglio
07-28-2004, 09:06 PM
we shouldnt make any trades. we have already KILLED our farm system! just keep the team we have and see where it takes us! if we dont make the playoffs, then KW is gone, and we start fresh next year
NO. Are farm system isn't KILLED and in no way should kenny be fired, would you like him to predict injuries also?

Win1ForMe
07-28-2004, 09:06 PM
why do you say that?
Common sense perhaps?

Lip Man 1
07-28-2004, 09:10 PM
When the Sox were going to sign Williams to a baseball deal, Uncle Jerry himself, personally flew out to visit Williams' family. He gave his personal guarantee to Williams' Dad that he would take care of his son.

The Williams family and Uncle Jerry have had a close personal friendship for almost twenty years. Uncle Jerry is loyal to a fault (remember Jerry Krause?) unless Williams commits a crime or assults a player or fan, he'll have his position as long as Uncle Jerry owns the club.

Lip

OzzieBall2004
07-28-2004, 09:48 PM
Everyone talks about how we gave away the future...blah...blah...friggin' blah.

We gave away Royce Ring (who might be a good closer) Edwin Almonte (who wont do crap), Andrew Salvo (a crummy infielder), Jon Rauch (tall and crummy, one solid yet shaky ML outing), Gary Majewski (Big whoop), Frankie Francisco (Average stuff in TX) , Josh Rupe, Anthony Webster (More average outfielders anyone?), Tim Hummel (3rd base, Reds, Crummy), Gary Glover (I was far from impressed), Scott Dunn (good stuff, but hardly a stud), Tim Bittner (far off from major league caliber) and....

Olivo, Reed, and Michael Morse. Olivo's play while here speaks for itself, while Reed is still probably a year away from being a productive major leaguer. Morse has good potential, but he's nothing to lose sleep over.

If anyone thinks we lost major league ready, impact players in the past two years they're nuts. Quite simply, we didn't have any to lose with the exception of Olivo and Reed. If we don't win this year, yeah the future is bleak, but there wasn't exactly an influx of young ML talent just waiting to throw on a Sox uniform and make a difference.

The fact is we got Freddy and signed him to a 3 yr deal, we got Carl cause we were (are) desperate for a bat, and we didn't lose anyone with star potentional except Reed and Olivo.

So stop whining about the poor, depleted, farm system, if we don't win anything this year and we're bad next year, it has little away with trading away quality young talent.

DickAllen72
07-28-2004, 10:40 PM
Unless Kenny Williams resigns for personal reasons or unless the Sox get new ownership he'll be the G.M. as long as he wishes.


Lip

That's the best news I've heard all day!

And to those who think ke "killed" our farm system, give me a break! Jeremy Reed was the only really highly touted prospect we traded away. Today the Tribune had a good review of all the guys we've traded in the past few years and what they're doing now. We haven't given up much in quality only quantity.

mmmmmbeeer
07-28-2004, 10:48 PM
The way I see it, this year is our best chance to win it all for a while. With the core players eventually getting free agency and likely to walk, we're going to have to be in a rebuilding stage anyways, much like the indians and tigers of the past few years.

So either the Sox become a mediocre team for a few years after this with their decent minor leaguers, or become a really crappy team for a while which will get them a better place in the draft eventually.
Our best chance to win it all? With no Frank or Maggs????? You're nuts. This is not a do or die year. We've got Freddy, Mark, Carlos, Paulie, Frank, Everett, A-Row, Damaso, Shingo, Garland, etc. all returning for atleast next season. Our core, minus Maggs (who's $ will be available for another pickup) will still be here atleast next year. This is NOT the best year to trade the farm and count on winning, not with our TWO BEST HITTERS GONE!!!!! Wait until next season when we've hopefully got health on our side. We can win the division with what we've got, we don't have enough money/talent to trade to get enough to win us a WS, no way.

mmmmmbeeer
07-28-2004, 10:49 PM
and KW won't be fired if we don't win this division. He cannot and should not be held accountable for our 2 best hitters being out for half the season.

DrCrawdad
07-29-2004, 12:08 AM
When the Sox were going to sign Williams to a baseball deal, Uncle Jerry himself, personally flew out to visit Williams' family. He gave his personal guarantee to Williams' Dad that he would take care of his son.

The Williams family and Uncle Jerry have had a close personal friendship for almost twenty years. Uncle Jerry is loyal to a fault (remember Jerry Krause?) unless Williams commits a crime or assults a player or fan, he'll have his position as long as Uncle Jerry owns the club.

Lip

I admire Reinsdorf's loyalty. I wish I were employed by a person with such loyalty.

Mohoney
07-29-2004, 01:44 AM
Two month's ago , both Borchard & Cotts were considered prime trading pieces, but that is not the case now.

What exactly is Cotts' value right now? Is there any way a package centered around Cotts, with possibly 1 or 2 other mid level throw-ins, could get us a pitcher like, say, Victor Zambrano or Jamie Moyer?

Do you know anything regarding asking prices for Zambrano or Moyer?

Will Moyer be willing to waive his no trade clause?

hold2dibber
07-29-2004, 08:23 AM
Our best chance to win it all? With no Frank or Maggs????? You're nuts. This is not a do or die year. We've got Freddy, Mark, Carlos, Paulie, Frank, Everett, A-Row, Damaso, Shingo, Garland, etc. all returning for atleast next season. Our core, minus Maggs (who's $ will be available for another pickup) will still be here atleast next year. This is NOT the best year to trade the farm and count on winning, not with our TWO BEST HITTERS GONE!!!!! Wait until next season when we've hopefully got health on our side. We can win the division with what we've got, we don't have enough money/talent to trade to get enough to win us a WS, no way.
Great post - I completely agree. I think the Sox would be foolish to make a knee jerk trade at this point, overpaying to try to win this year. They still might win, and I would love to see them pull of a trade or two still, but not at the expense of gutting the team. As you note, there is going to be a very good core still in place next year. With attendance up and a lot of money being cleared from the payroll, KW will be in an excellent position next off season to add a few pieces (e.g., Pavano? Clement? a lead off hitter?) that will make the team a serious contender. The Sox lost their 2 best players. Under those circumstances, you simply can't go for broke.

gosox41
07-29-2004, 08:49 AM
When the Sox were going to sign Williams to a baseball deal, Uncle Jerry himself, personally flew out to visit Williams' family. He gave his personal guarantee to Williams' Dad that he would take care of his son.

The Williams family and Uncle Jerry have had a close personal friendship for almost twenty years. Uncle Jerry is loyal to a fault (remember Jerry Krause?) unless Williams commits a crime or assults a player or fan, he'll have his position as long as Uncle Jerry owns the club.

Lip
I have to agree with Lip here. Unless KW resigns he isn't going anywhere.

And that's too bad, because outside of being aggressive (which is something the Sox need more of) he hasn't brought much to the team.

And while KW can't predict injury to his 2 best hitters (I will point out that if it were up to him these guys wouldn't even be here right now...will you agree to that?) this club was flat out embarassed this week. It's one thing to lose in good games. But to get outhustled, outmuscled and outplayed in every facet of the game is just humiliating.


Bob

gosox41
07-29-2004, 08:53 AM
Everyone talks about how we gave away the future...blah...blah...friggin' blah.

We gave away Royce Ring (who might be a good closer) Edwin Almonte (who wont do crap), Andrew Salvo (a crummy infielder), Jon Rauch (tall and crummy, one solid yet shaky ML outing), Gary Majewski (Big whoop), Frankie Francisco (Average stuff in TX) , Josh Rupe, Anthony Webster (More average outfielders anyone?), Tim Hummel (3rd base, Reds, Crummy), Gary Glover (I was far from impressed), Scott Dunn (good stuff, but hardly a stud), Tim Bittner (far off from major league caliber) and....

Olivo, Reed, and Michael Morse. Olivo's play while here speaks for itself, while Reed is still probably a year away from being a productive major leaguer. Morse has good potential, but he's nothing to lose sleep over.

If anyone thinks we lost major league ready, impact players in the past two years they're nuts. Quite simply, we didn't have any to lose with the exception of Olivo and Reed. If we don't win this year, yeah the future is bleak, but there wasn't exactly an influx of young ML talent just waiting to throw on a Sox uniform and make a difference.

The fact is we got Freddy and signed him to a 3 yr deal, we got Carl cause we were (are) desperate for a bat, and we didn't lose anyone with star potentional except Reed and Olivo.

So stop whining about the poor, depleted, farm system, if we don't win anything this year and we're bad next year, it has little away with trading away quality young talent.
THe only 2 players I will miss is Rauch and Reed. But you're right I won't miss a reliever like Ring or Webster. Morse may be good but he is a longer shot.

Outside of losing Rauch and Reed I don't think the Sox depleted their farm system. I think it was already depleted way before that. The Sox didn't give up much talent over the last couple of years in these trades. But now other scouts are saying KW has no more talent to give up. Not even mediocre guys? I'm not talking abouty giving up the farm for Beltran but making other trades that can improve this team.


Bob