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Win1ForMe
07-28-2004, 11:36 AM
Is White Sox general manager Kenny Williams planning to be active before Saturday's nonwaiver trade deadline?

On Tuesday, it sure sounded like he was planning to make a move or two.

"I've been holed up in this conference room (at U.S. Cellular Field) the last few days trying to assess where we're at and talking on the phone,'' Williams said. "I've been talking to quite a few clubs.''

Williams already has parted with catcher Miguel Olivo and four minor-league prospects to acquire starting pitcher Freddy Garcia and designated hitter Carl Everett in separate deals.

Williams balked at the perception the Sox are tapped out of prospects and no longer able to make trades.

"I've heard that from some people out there and that's not the case,'' Williams said. "If you'd look at the moves that have been made, you'd see it's been more a case of us trading quantity instead of quality. That's not to say Miguel Olivo was quantity. But to get Freddy Garcia, we had to give something up.''

With Magglio Ordonez and Frank Thomas on the disabled list, the White Sox could obviously use another bat in the lineup. Adding a catcher and middle relief pitcher wouldn't hurt, either.

Outfielders Joe Borchard and Brian Anderson and starting pitcher Felix Diaz appear to be the only three young players Williams is unwilling to trade.I don't get it. Why wouldn't Joe Borchard be available? It doesn't seem like there's any room for him in our outfield next year, why have him play another season at AAA?

Maybe it's just posturing (wasn't Reed described as an untouchable at one point?) to drive up his value.
:dunno:

EDIT- Oops. Forgot the link: http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38196128

fledgedrallycap
07-28-2004, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't believe everything you here. If Borchard was part of a deal to improve our club, and not just for the next two months, he would be out of here.

soxtalker
07-28-2004, 12:14 PM
I don't get it. Why wouldn't Joe Borchard be available? It doesn't seem like there's any room for him in our outfield next year, why have him play another season at AAA?

Maybe it's just posturing (wasn't Reed described as an untouchable at one point?) to drive up his value.
:dunno:

EDIT- Oops. Forgot the link: http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=38196128
Why do you say that there is no room in our outfield for him next year? I'm not trying to argue with you (at least at this point), but, rather, I'm asking what your underlying assumptions are. For example, are you assuming that we'll be signing Maggs?

SoxxoS
07-28-2004, 12:17 PM
Borchard and Diaz should be the prime trade bait, IMO.

Just don't touch Honel, Sweeney, Anderson. That's all.

Gammons Peter
07-28-2004, 12:21 PM
of course Borchard is available.....who would want him

soxtalker
07-28-2004, 12:33 PM
of course Borchard is available.....who would want him
While KW's statement may just be a ploy to either drive up Borchard's price or cover up some secret negotiations, it is also very consistent with earlier statements and actions. The organization and KW, in particular, have been very patient with Borchard, and it seems quite likely they consider him a central piece in their future. He has improved in his approach at the plate since he was brought up (way too early). And his defense appears to be pretty good. Last night, I think that he made a couple of nice plays.

SoxxoS
07-28-2004, 12:37 PM
While KW's statement may just be a ploy to either drive up Borchard's price or cover up some secret negotiations, it is also very consistent with earlier statements and actions. The organization and KW, in particular, have been very patient with Borchard, and it seems quite likely they consider him a central piece in their future. He has improved in his approach at the plate since he was brought up (way too early). And his defense appears to be pretty good. Last night, I think that he made a couple of nice plays.
Last I checked, the internet is a tool everyone can use...so talking up Borchard isn't going to work too well.

Win1ForMe
07-28-2004, 12:45 PM
Why do you say that there is no room in our outfield for him next year? I'm not trying to argue with you (at least at this point), but, rather, I'm asking what your underlying assumptions are. For example, are you assuming that we'll be signing Maggs?
I'm assuming they'll have an outfield of Lee/Rowand/Everett, could be wrong of course. Unless they do something crazy like trade Frank and keep Carl at DH, there appears to be no room for him. Maybe in '06, but by then Anderson should be ahead of Borchard anyway.

soxtalker
07-28-2004, 01:00 PM
I'm assuming they'll have an outfield of Lee/Rowand/Everett, could be wrong of course. Unless they do something crazy like trade Frank and keep Carl at DH, there appears to be no room for him. Maybe in '06, but by then Anderson should be ahead of Borchard anyway.
This brings up an interesting point. I've been wondering what the implication of Everett's presence next year means. I've heard a number of complaints about his fielding, so it might be that KW does indeed intend to use Borchard instead. But what does that mean for Everett? If it is DH, then does this mean that they don't intend to sign Frank? Something doesn't make sense.

Mickster
07-28-2004, 01:03 PM
This brings up an interesting point. I've been wondering what the implication of Everett's presence next year means. I've heard a number of complaints about his fielding, so it might be that KW does indeed intend to use Borchard instead. But what does that mean for Everett? If it is DH, then does this mean that they don't intend to sign Frank? Something doesn't make sense.
Frank has a player option for $8m next year and $10m in 2006. Frank will be on the sox next year. Count on it.

soxtalker
07-28-2004, 02:17 PM
Frank has a player option for $8m next year and $10m in 2006. Frank will be on the sox next year. Count on it.
OK, if you assume that (and after Frank's first half, I can't disagree), what happens to the outfield? There seems to be an odd man out. I'm trying to probe what KW is thinking.

munchman33
07-28-2004, 02:36 PM
More than likely, Borchard will be patrolling centerfield next year, when we trade Rowand in the Beltran deal and he leaves in the offseason.

SoxxoS
07-28-2004, 02:42 PM
More than likely, Borchard will be patrolling centerfield next year, when we trade Rowand in the Beltran deal and he leaves in the offseason.
If Borchard, Harris and/or Uribe are full time players next year, we are in dire straits.

DickAllen72
07-28-2004, 05:44 PM
This brings up an interesting point. I've been wondering what the implication of Everett's presence next year means. I've heard a number of complaints about his fielding, so it might be that KW does indeed intend to use Borchard instead. But what does that mean for Everett? If it is DH, then does this mean that they don't intend to sign Frank? Something doesn't make sense.

I heard a few times last season and offseasin that some in the Sox organization think Carlos Lee would be a good first baseman. If that's the case, next season the Sox may trade Konerko, let Ordonez and Valentin go and start out with an infield of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Lee with an outfield of Everett in Left, Rowand in Right and a new acquisition in CF.

OEO Magglio
07-28-2004, 05:47 PM
Borchard and Diaz should be the prime trade bait, IMO.

Just don't touch Honel, Sweeney, Anderson. That's all.I agree with you about Borch and Diaz. Honel is injured so who knows how he's going to come back but no one would take him as the centerpiece of a deal right now anyways. I'd also like Kenny to hold on to Bmac.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2004, 05:57 PM
The only kind of trade K-Dub should consider making at this point is a deal that will improve the Sox for the present and the next several years. With injuries to Frank and Maggs, this team is not World Series caliber. The price of two impact players with reasonable contracts is beyond the ability of the Sox to pay in terms of prospects.

Standing pat, they still can compete for the division this year.

I sound like a broken record, but a trade for Jason Kendall gives the Sox a leadoff hitter who can play catcher for this year and the next several years. If Maggs comes back this year, so much the better. If Maggs leaves as a free agent, Kendall can reproduce Maggs' batting average, only as a #1 or #2 hitter, at a lower cost in 2005 and 2006. The difference in payroll will allow Valentin and Loaiza to return.

Of course I would prefer Carl Crawford or Juan Pierre, but the starting price for each would be Mark Buehrle. No deal. Kendall is the best option for now and tomorrow.

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2004, 06:02 PM
I heard a few times last season and offseasin that some in the Sox organization think Carlos Lee would be a good first baseman. If that's the case, next season the Sox may trade Konerko, let Ordonez and Valentin go and start out with an infield of Crede, Uribe, Harris and Lee with an outfield of Everett in Left, Rowand in Right and a new acquisition in CF.
If Konerko continues to hit homers this year, coupled with 2005 being the last year of his contract, his trade value should be high enough that the Sox could get pitching in return, move Lee to first and re-sign Maggs and Valentin. Then the infield of Lee, Harris/Uribe, Valentin, Crede would be enhanced by an outfield of Everett, Maggs and Borchard/Rowand, with Frank at DH.

Buehrle, Garcia, young #3 gained in Konerko deal, Garland, Loaiza is a very strong rotation as well.

Win1ForMe
07-28-2004, 06:11 PM
Buehrle, Garcia, young #3 gained in Konerko deal, Garland, Loaiza is a very strong rotation as well.
I'm pretty sure this is it for Loaiza as far as being in a Sox uniform. We'll probably see Diaz in the rotation. The Sox should go after Wilson Alvarez in the off-season, provided the asking price isn't much over the $1.5 M he's making this year. Come to think of it, he would have been a much better investment than Schoe.

Mohoney
07-28-2004, 10:35 PM
Borchard and Diaz should be the prime trade bait, IMO.

Just don't touch Honel, Sweeney, Anderson. That's all.

I would rather trade Cotts than Diaz. Diaz at least casts the illusion that he might someday have 3 quality pitches. Diaz doesn't throw fastball after fastball after fastball until he either walks the bases loaded or gets tattooed.

If I had to keep one of these two, I would keep Diaz over Cotts.

If the deal makes sense, I would trade Borchard. I would trade Cotts, too. Maybe Borchard, Cotts, and a lower level throw-in like Ruddy Yan, will appease Pittsburgh more than Meintkiewicz and Restovich, and we could land Kris Benson?

Then maybe package Garland and Benson for the Big Unit?

If we had assurances that Arizona would say yes to a Garland and Benson package deal for Randy Johnson, and, most importantly, that Randy would waive his no trade clause to come here, why not do it?

We get Unit, AND the Twins don't get Benson. Plus, if Garland ever does become something more than a below average #3/above average #4 starter, He will be doing it in the NL, where he won't affect us. Same for Cotts and Borchard.

I'm just worried that Garland will get something ridiculous like $5 million bucks next year, and go even farther up the price ladder in '06. I would rather see the Diamondbacks overpay him than see us do it.

JB98
07-28-2004, 11:02 PM
As per AM-1000, RJ said he will not accept a deal to Los Angeles. This, in spite of the fact that the Dodgers are in first place and close to his Arizona home.

How could anyone possibly think he would approve a deal to Chicago? It's not happening guys. Get your heads out of the clouds.