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View Full Version : Memo To Kenny Williams: Our Offense Stinks, Get Carlos Beltran Right Now!!!!!


SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2004, 09:59 PM
If KW and Reinsdorf have any desire to get to the playoffs this year, we are going to need another bat in the lineup. It's becoming more and more clear that Maggs won't be back next year, so we should persue Beltran and try to sign him to an extention. I love Maggs, but its pretty obvious that the younger Beltran has more talent and will be more of a big time player than Maggs. We are beginning to see the season slip away at the hand of the ****ing Twinkies YET AGAIN. I can't stand it....we know you want to win as much as the fans do, KW...MAKE THE MOVE!!!!!!

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:00 PM
Memo To Spartan:

It's NOT going to happen...get over it.

Lip

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2004, 10:03 PM
Memo To Spartan:

It's NOT going to happen...get over it.

Lip
Alrighty then, Lip, what do you suggest we do??? Throw in the towel for the season? Pull off White Flag trade part II??? I appreciate your grand optimism.

ndgt10
07-27-2004, 10:04 PM
I would have absolutely no problem shipping Borchard and Diaz over to Houston for Beltran.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:07 PM
White Flagging it or being 'optimistic' has NOTHING to do with it. What HAS to do with it are:

1. Scott Boras is Beltran's agent and Uncle Jerry and Scott do NOT get along...

2. The Astros can still take the 'wild card' do you think they are going to 'White Flag' it just to make you happy?

Lip

munchman33
07-27-2004, 10:07 PM
Memo To Spartan:

It's NOT going to happen...get over it.

Lip
Do you have any basis to make this assumption, i.e. Kenny Williams personally telling you that he won't at least try and make a trade for Beltran?

Didn't think so.

If there's anything I've learned about Kenny Williams the last few years is that he isn't willing to throw in the towel, and will definately try and make a huge splash in the trade market.

With Andy Pettite looking at the possibility of season-ending surgery, you'd have to think the Astros will be moving Beltran, as well as Jeff Kent.

samram
07-27-2004, 10:08 PM
I would have absolutely no problem shipping Borchard and Diaz over to Houston for Beltran.
Me neither. Houston may have a problem taking them though, especially since they've got themselves back in the race with a nice stretch against the Brewers (who are back to sucking) and D-Backs.

DickAllen72
07-27-2004, 10:09 PM
I would have absolutely no problem shipping Borchard and Diaz over to Houston for Beltran.

Then ship Crede & Cotts over to Arizona for Randy Johnson.

Flight #24
07-27-2004, 10:10 PM
Let's all calm down and remember - the season wasn't over when we swept the Twins in Minny, and it isn't over now. We have a much easier schedule than they do, and if we beat the Royals, Indians, & co (easier than beatng the Twins), we'll be fine and in good shape.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear around here, but it's the truth.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:13 PM
Flight:

With respect...your assumption is that the Twins are going to get handled by the better teams left on their schedule...what if they aren't?

Lip

munchman33
07-27-2004, 10:16 PM
Flight:

With respect...your assumption is that the Twins are going to get handled by the better teams left on their schedule...what if they aren't?

Lip
The last few years, the Twins have had trouble with better teams, and destroyed the bad ones. Sure, they could go out and rout the Bosox and Yankees, but I wouldn't bet on it.

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2004, 10:19 PM
White Flagging it or being 'optimistic' has NOTHING to do with it. What HAS to do with it are:

1. Scott Boras is Beltran's agent and Uncle Jerry and Scott do NOT get along...

2. The Astros can still take the 'wild card' do you think they are going to 'White Flag' it just to make you happy?

Lip
Wild Card??? I don't know if you pay much attention to the standings there, Lipman, but Houston is 50-50 and 5.5 games back in the Wild Card, not to mention 5 teams are ahead of them. I don't see them catching teams like the Padres or the Giants anytime soon. Thanks for playing, though...

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:20 PM
Munch:

You are also assuming that without Maggs and Frank the Sox can continute to do well against Anaheim, Boston, Detroit and Cleveland who are left on their schedule.

All of them are pretty decent teams.

Lip

munchman33
07-27-2004, 10:29 PM
Munch:

You are also assuming that without Maggs and Frank the Sox can continute to do well against Anaheim, Boston, Detroit and Cleveland who are left on their schedule.

All of them are pretty decent teams.

Lip
Detroit and Cleveland are both under .500. I'd much rather play them a bunch instead of other teams.

Anaheim will be tough, but Minnesota will have to play them twice as much as we do. They also play Texas twice as often as we do the rest of the way. Throw six Yankees games in their (Against whom Minnesota went 0-6 last year) and Bosox, and you've got a schedule no one would be envious of.

Meanwhile, we've still have 14 games with Kansas City, 16 more with under .500 detroit, and 8 more games with under .500 Cleveland. I don't understand your argument that this doesn't work tremendously in our favor.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:33 PM
Spartan:

Tell you what, here my e-mail. Care to wager that the Astros don't trade Beltran to the Sox?

I'll go up to fifty.

mliptak1@ida.net

Five and a half games with two months left in the season isn't that much of a problem as you think for an Astros team that still has a load of talent.

Learn your history my friend, the Sox blew a 4 1/2 game wild card lead down the stretch in 1996.

Thanks for playing and take some lovely parting gifts with you...

Lip

munchman33
07-27-2004, 10:36 PM
Lip

Do you realize that Andy Pettite has torn a tendon and is hitting only 74 with his fastball? He's likely to have season ending surgery. The 'stros are done, and management is starting to realize it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1847660

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2004, 10:37 PM
Detroit and Cleveland are both under .500. I'd much rather play them a bunch instead of other teams.

Anaheim will be tough, but Minnesota will have to play them twice as much as we do. They also play Texas twice as often as we do the rest of the way. Throw six Yankees games in their (Against whom Minnesota went 0-6 last year) and Bosox, and you've got a schedule no one would be envious of.

Meanwhile, we've still have 14 games with Kansas City, 16 more with under .500 detroit, and 8 more games with under .500 Cleveland. I don't understand your argument that this doesn't work tremendously in our favor.
I agree with Munchman that on paper we have a tremendously favorable schedule compared to the Twinkies. However, I just don't know how we will fare without Maggs and Frank unless a trade is made to provide more offense. Without them in the lineup, those games against Cleveland and Detroit could become more competitive than they were earlier in the season. I still think Detroit is dangerous with Pudge and Guillen.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2004, 10:43 PM
Munch:

I do understand that and I also understand that the Astros are packing them in this year and may not want to alienate their fans like Sox ownership did in 1997 by White Flagging it.

A lot will also depend on where the Astros are on the 31st and is someone willing to give up something of value for a guy they are only going to have for two months since Boras' M.O. is that his players go through free agency.

Lip

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2004, 10:44 PM
Spartan:

Tell you what, here my e-mail. Care to wager that the Astros don't trade Beltran to the Sox?

I'll go up to fifty.

mliptak1@ida.net

Five and a half games with two months left in the season isn't that much of a problem as you think for an Astros team that still has a load of talent.

Learn your history my friend, the Sox blew a 4 1/2 game wild card lead down the stretch in 1996.

Thanks for playing and take some lovely parting gifts with you...

Lip
I'm not saying it will happen for sure, but the conditions are right for a trade to happen. As Munchman mentioned, Pettite is likely done for the season. As long as Biggio and Bagwell continue to put up sub-par numbers, the Astros won't win the wild card.

Viva Magglio
07-27-2004, 11:31 PM
I'd love to get Carlos Beltrán, but things that good just don't happen to us.

Bisco Stu
07-27-2004, 11:46 PM
The next few days will define KW as a GM. Add an offensive weapon or watch the Twinkees win a 3rd straight title.

bluestar
07-27-2004, 11:59 PM
The Astros were contacted by a few MLB GM's today and they said Beltran was definitely NOT available. Of course, that could change by the 31st...Oh, and even if the Astros were willing to trade Beltran, the thinking is they are going to ask for -- you guessed it -- a young catcher in return.

SpartanSoxFan
07-28-2004, 12:16 AM
The Astros were contacted by a few MLB GM's today and they said Beltran was definitely NOT available. Of course, that could change by the 31st...Oh, and even if the Astros were willing to trade Beltran, the thinking is they are going to ask for -- you guessed it -- a young catcher in return.
If you are right, and I am skeptical because you haven't revealed how you came about this information, then KW needs to go after Jason Kendall. Kendall isn't Carlos Beltran, but he is a decent second in terms of finding another bat for the lineup.

bluestar
07-28-2004, 12:21 AM
If you are right, and I am skeptical because you haven't revealed how you came about this information, then KW needs to go after Jason Kendall. Kendall isn't Carlos Beltran, but he is a decent second in terms of finding another bat for the lineup.My source is Ken Rosenthal of The Sporting News. He also reports that the Twins might get Benson, but not for Mientkiewicz.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2611108

I would like for KW to go after Kendall, too, but I don't think he will agree to a trade to the Sox.

OEO Magglio
07-28-2004, 12:24 AM
Alrighty then, Lip, what do you suggest we do??? Throw in the towel for the season? Pull off White Flag trade part II??? I appreciate your grand optimism.Yup, if we don't beef up the offense we'll just throw in the towel.:rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
07-28-2004, 12:27 AM
ESPN is reporting that the Braves are now interested in Benson.

Lip

bluestar
07-28-2004, 12:30 AM
ESPN is reporting that the Braves are now interested in Benson.

Lip
Rosenthal confirms this, too:

"The Braves made contact with the Pirates on Tuesday, but likely are unwilling to pay a steep price for Benson."

Iron Dragon
07-28-2004, 12:31 AM
I think that maybe the most probable situation is that the Sox don't make any significant moves the rest of the way. There's not a lot left in our farm system, and there are a lot of buyers with fewer sellers this season, so prices will be high. These injuries are killin us. Go Sox!

SpartanSoxFan
07-28-2004, 12:40 AM
I think that maybe the most probable situation is that the Sox don't make any significant moves the rest of the way. There's not a lot left in our farm system, and there are a lot of buyers with fewer sellers this season, so prices will be high. These injuries are killin us. Go Sox!
If the Twins land Benson and KW doesn't make anymore moves, consider us dead in the water.

Mickster
07-28-2004, 08:36 AM
If the Twins land Benson and KW doesn't make anymore moves, consider us dead in the water.
Yep. The Twins were thinking that last year when we got Everett and Alomar. Relax.

bobj4400
07-28-2004, 08:38 AM
Memo To Spartan:

It's NOT going to happen...get over it.

Lip
Lip this is one time I agree with your pessimistic view of all things Sox.

Beltran = Boras = no chance in hell

Beltran in Chicago is the definition of a pipe dream.

wdelaney72
07-28-2004, 08:40 AM
Let's all calm down and remember - the season wasn't over when we swept the Twins in Minny, and it isn't over now. We have a much easier schedule than they do, and if we beat the Royals, Indians, & co (easier than beatng the Twins), we'll be fine and in good shape.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear around here, but it's the truth.
You can't win the division if you can't beat the team in front of you. We can beat Detroit and KC, but so can the Twins.

Dadawg_77
07-28-2004, 08:45 AM
Alrighty then, Lip, what do you suggest we do??? Throw in the towel for the season? Pull off White Flag trade part II??? I appreciate your grand optimism.That could be the best option. With out Frank or Mags, this team is going no where unless something major happens to cause the bats to come out. Why give up prospects for Beltran, he won't push this team over the top, to do that the Sox would need to land a Helton, Bonds.

LongLiveFisk
07-28-2004, 09:02 AM
Oh, and even if the Astros were willing to trade Beltran, the thinking is they are going to ask for -- you guessed it -- a young catcher in return.
No problem, I'm willing to part with Ben Davis! :D:

bluestar
07-28-2004, 10:31 AM
No problem, I'm willing to part with Ben Davis! :D:
Shouldn't that be in teal?:smile:

Frater Perdurabo
07-28-2004, 10:55 AM
If you are right, and I am skeptical because you haven't revealed how you came about this information, then KW needs to go after Jason Kendall. Kendall isn't Carlos Beltran, but he is a decent second in terms of finding another bat for the lineup.DING DING DING DING

Kendall is the best option at this point. Increased attendance should be good for a temporary increase in payroll. Next year, that may mean that Maggs is gone for sure, but that's likely anyway. Kendall can lead off, hit .300, get on base for the rest of the sluggers like Lee, Everett, Konerko (and Frank in 2005) and replace Maggs OBP (if not his power). Yes, I will miss Maggs, but Kendall helps the Sox THIS YEAR and for the NEXT SEVERAL YEARS. Furthermore, Pittsburgh won't expect much in return. They were willing to pay part of his contract and GIVE him to San Diego for FREE during the offseason. We could get him AND cash for, say, Neal Cotts.

Foulke29
07-28-2004, 10:56 AM
Spartan:

Tell you what, here my e-mail. Care to wager that the Astros don't trade Beltran to the Sox?

I'll go up to fifty.

mliptak1@ida.net

Five and a half games with two months left in the season isn't that much of a problem as you think for an Astros team that still has a load of talent.

Learn your history my friend, the Sox blew a 4 1/2 game wild card lead down the stretch in 1996.

Thanks for playing and take some lovely parting gifts with you...

Lip
Stop and think for a second Lippy. The Sox blew that. You're right, but here's the scoop on Houston. They have to catch: San Diego, San Francisco & Los Angeles in the west, Milwaulkee, Chicago and St. Louis in the Central and Atlanta, New York and Florida in the East. Granted, one team of every division that I named will win the division, but that's still six different teams that they're behind.

If you want to really put your money where your mouth is - I'll go fifty on at least four of the aforementioned teams finishing ahead of them in the wildcard race. It's one thing to say the Sox blew a 4 1/2 game lead. It's another to assume that six teams will play badly enough to fall beneath a dinged up Houston team.

By the way, the Beltran trade was just hella stupid for the Astros to do - unless it was to keep him out of pinstripes - in that case, I applaud their heart and not their brains.

Gammons Peter
07-28-2004, 10:57 AM
Beltran is hitting .257 with Houston and .272 overall. He does have nice HR/RBI numbers but he is way over rated. We need guys that can get on base