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chisox06
07-26-2004, 11:16 PM
Dont know about you guys but I lost some respect for Ozzie tonight. Let your catcher get drilled like that, which was a complete cheap shot. Then with first base open and the game pretty much outa hand you dont drill Hunter back?!! Thats just terrible, you gotta back up your teamates, discusting. What do you guys think was drillin Hunter the right thing to do?

eurotrash35
07-26-2004, 11:17 PM
Should have earholed his punk ***.

Mots09
07-26-2004, 11:17 PM
He said on the postgame, that he wants his team to play just as hard as that. He want's his players to play hard, and if you go clip someone you clip someone....

JDub35
07-26-2004, 11:19 PM
It sure looked like Davis set up WAY inside, I think Michael Jackson just missed his spot.

Mots09
07-26-2004, 11:20 PM
I don't mind not hitting him tonight, simply because I am going to be at the game tommorrow and I want to see some fireworks. Would much rather see a hardthrower (Garcia) drill THunt....:dtroll:

Irishsox1
07-26-2004, 11:22 PM
The Sox will get back at Hunter for that. If I know Ozzie, Hunter will pay and it won't be with the Sox down big, it will come at the worst possible time for the Twins and it will be off Hunter's knee or head.

Nick@Nite
07-26-2004, 11:22 PM
I prefer the phrase, "knock him on his ass".

Mots09
07-26-2004, 11:23 PM
Did you hear Hawk make some comments towards Hunter

"Go ahead and try to climb that wall.."

"I know what the hell I would do, but I can't say it on TV"


Hawk was very pissed about this incident!

bluestar
07-26-2004, 11:25 PM
I want to see Hunter drilled, but not at the expense of getting Freddie ejected.

I would rather see the Sox come out with some fire and heart and take these last two games from the Twins.

chisox06
07-26-2004, 11:25 PM
The Sox will get back at Hunter for that. If I know Ozzie, Hunter will pay and it won't be with the Sox down big, it will come at the worst possible time for the Twins and it will be off Hunter's knee or head.
Sorry but the time to get him back was tonight, when it happened. I wonder how Burke feels right now? It was cool havin him with the mic tonight. He went back in the clubhouse and said it was a cheap shot. Hey Sox grow some marbles, Torri disrespected your whole team tonight, and you let him get away with it. By the way props to the fans givin him flak tonight at least they showed some heart.

JDub35
07-26-2004, 11:26 PM
Yeah, I heard Hawk's comments. He was pretty fired up. Good thing they didnt let him out of the booth :tongue:

Mots09
07-26-2004, 11:27 PM
I completely agree I don't want to cost a W by losing Garcia, but I think if he drills him, he will probably only get a warning.

oeo
07-26-2004, 11:28 PM
Don't do it unless we are leading by a lot. These next two games mean too much to go out and intentionally put runners on the basepaths.

Wealz
07-26-2004, 11:31 PM
Sorry but the time to get him back was tonight, when it happened. I wonder how Burke feels right now? It was cool havin him with the mic tonight. He went back in the clubhouse and said it was a cheap shot. Hey Sox grow some marbles, Torri disrespected your whole team tonight, and you let him get away with it. By the way props to the fans givin him flak tonight at least they showed some heart.
Hunter swung at the first pitch.

Palehose13
07-26-2004, 11:31 PM
Did you hear DJ's comments when they showed Torii getting it from the fans? It was something like "We sure have some knowledgable fans. They know what's going on."

HomeFish
07-26-2004, 11:32 PM
No thanks. We don't need to give away any more free baserunners to the Twins.

chisox06
07-26-2004, 11:32 PM
Hunter swung at the first pitch.
Yea and for some reason, that pitch wasn't aimed right at him.

Uncle_Patrick
07-26-2004, 11:37 PM
What the Sox need to do is either hit Torii hard next time there's a close play at the plate or take a hard shot at the Twins catcher. Melton seems to think we might see the 2nd option in the next game.

Wealz
07-26-2004, 11:43 PM
Yea and for some reason, that pitch wasn't aimed right at him.It doesn't mean they aren't going to exact some sort of revenge. What Hunter did was beyond stupid. If I'm not mistaking the Twins have a catcher by the name of Joe Mauer . . .

Dice
07-26-2004, 11:47 PM
I don't mind not hitting him tonight, simply because I am going to be at the game tommorrow and I want to see some fireworks. Would much rather see a hardthrower (Garcia) drill THunt....:dtroll:
I don't want to see an ejection and suspension for Garcia. Monday's game was the perfect time, with the perfect player. Who cares if Mike Jackson get suspened. Hope he got suspended for the year.

Kogs35
07-26-2004, 11:48 PM
It doesn't mean they aren't going to exact some sort of revenge. What Hunter did was beyond stupid. If I'm not mistaking the Twins have a catcher by the name of Joe Mauer . . .
hes on the dl

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2004, 11:50 PM
Dont know about you guys but I lost some respect for Ozzie tonight.
I just got back from the game - I was one of the folks giving it to Hunter in the on deck circle.

I think your above quote says it all. I definitely lost respect for Ozzie. Cliff was the perfect guy to have out there at that time. He should have put the next guy in the hospital.

It was obvious that Ozzie had pretty much written off winning tonight (by bringing in Cotts and Jackson) - so why not fire the team up by clearing the benches?

Ozzie needs to figure out that standing up for your players goes along with playing the game hard and right....

Wealz
07-26-2004, 11:52 PM
hes on the dl
He'll be off it soon enough.

jackbrohamer
07-26-2004, 11:58 PM
Look nobody wants to retalliate against him in a situation that jeopardizes a win. But not every play is a game situation, and Ozzie's a total wuss if he lets his catcher get drilled like that, from behind, when he doesn't have the ball, by a guy who isn't even trying to touch the plate, who plays for a team that's been kicking the Sox out of the playoffs for the past couple of years.

Kogs35
07-27-2004, 12:02 AM
ok lets say he drilled him tonight benches clear and everything. warnings r issued for tomrow garcia hits some1 by accident garcia is gone. id rather drill him when no brawl happened no warning issued. u do it tomrow in the 3rd inning when lorrie hunter or martha stewart comes up with a 2-1 count

medlaker24
07-27-2004, 12:03 AM
Look nobody wants to retalliate against him in a situation that jeopardizes a win. But not every play is a game situation, and Ozzie's a total wuss if he lets his catcher get drilled like that, from behind, when he doesn't have the ball, by a guy who isn't even trying to touch the plate, who plays for a team that's been kicking the Sox out of the playoffs for the past couple of years.
Did you see the play? He was not drilled from behind. It was dead on.

voodoochile
07-27-2004, 12:07 AM
Did you see the play? He was not drilled from behind. It was dead on.
I'm starting to get the impression you are a Twinkie fan. None of your posts have anything positive to say about the Sox at all and you seem to be all about the Twinkie offense and the Twinkie trades.

Why exactly are you here? :dtroll:

Mohoney
07-27-2004, 12:08 AM
Did you hear DJ's comments when they showed Torii getting it from the fans? It was something like "We sure have some knowledgable fans. They know what's going on."

I can't wait for Baseball Tonight to crucify our fanbase and sanctify Torii Hunter.

Grobber33
07-27-2004, 12:08 AM
I just got back from the Club Houses(both of them)and Ozzie Guillen said he admired Hunter's play and wants the Sox to play like that. None of the Sox players we talked to called it a dirty play.

Also,Hunter said some Fans that were yelling at him in the On Deck Circle in the 9th inning threatened to "take my life,so do it now,why be scared.Dont wait till we get outside. Do it now! I'm from the Hodd Playa!" That's a direct quote.
He said he was not rying to hurt Jamie Burke,but was simply trying to score another run.

Also,Buehrle took Burke to the Hospital after the game. Darn it's pouring rain hard here now!!!

JGarlandrules20
07-27-2004, 12:11 AM
Just watching the replays...after Hunter plows Burke down.. he just stands up and steps on the plate...and just the way he did that...how evil can you be? Did the sox do anything for Burke to deserve that? :angry:

but...I voted no. Sox should just retaliate with their bats tomorrow.

Mohoney
07-27-2004, 12:11 AM
Did you see the play? He was not drilled from behind. It was dead on.

Did YOU see the play? Hunter is a tool.

Spikes up for the rest of the series.

South Side
07-27-2004, 12:12 AM
I just got back from the Club Houses(both of them)and Ozzie Guillen said he admired Hunter's play and wants the Sox to play like that. None of the Sox players we talked to called it a dirty play.

Also,Hunter said some Fans that were yelling at him in the On Deck Circle in the 9th inning threatened to "take my life,so do it now,why be scared.Dont wait till we get outside. Do it now! I'm from the Hodd Playa!" That's a direct quote.
He said he was not rying to hurt Jamie Burke,but was simply trying to score another run.

Also,Buehrle took Burke to the Hospital after the game. Darn it's pouring rain hard here now!!!
There is a difference between playing hard and playing dirty, and Hunter played dirty... I don't know how much I believe that the players didn't find anything wrong with it... but if that is true then I feel bad for Burke... what happened to protecting your team?

Grobber33
07-27-2004, 12:26 AM
There is a difference between playing hard and playing dirty, and Hunter played dirty... I don't know how much I believe that the players didn't find anything wrong with it... but if that is true then I feel bad for Burke... what happened to protecting your team?

Dont believe the Player?? Then how about the Manager? Here is what Ozzie said "I know if it happened for MY side,I'd be High-Fiving my Players. If they dont like it,that's a message. That's the way I learned the game,that's the way I played the game. That's the way I want them to play the game,play the game hard."
Look,you're all pissed they lost the game,but if the Sox Players and Manager say it was'nt dirty,then............

Flight #24
07-27-2004, 12:30 AM
Dont believe the Player?? Then how about the Manager? Here is what Ozzie said "I know if it happened for MY side,I'd be High-Fiving my Players. If they dont like it,that's a message. That's the way I learned the game,that's the way I played the game. That's the way I want them to play the game,play the game hard."
Look,you're all pissed they lost the game,but if the Sox Players and Manager say it was'nt dirty,then............
Grobber - I'm sorry, but Burke said it was dirty on the broadcast (part of the "miked up" comments). Based on that and the replay, I have to believe that Ozzie's comments are more a part of making sure that when they retaliate they minimize the damage from suspensions and ejections.

We'll see tomorrow if guys are heading into second spikes up, or if Timo barrels in on the Twins catcher. I'd say Carlos, but I don't want to risk any injury to him.

Frankfan4life
07-27-2004, 12:37 AM
I just got back from the Club Houses(both of them)and Ozzie Guillen said he admired Hunter's play and wants the Sox to play like that. None of the Sox players we talked to called it a dirty play.

Also,Hunter said some Fans that were yelling at him in the On Deck Circle in the 9th inning threatened to "take my life,so do it now,why be scared.Dont wait till we get outside. Do it now! I'm from the Hodd Playa!" That's a direct quote.
He said he was not rying to hurt Jamie Burke,but was simply trying to score another run.

Also,Buehrle took Burke to the Hospital after the game. Darn it's pouring rain hard here now!!!What is Ozzie talking about? We should just admire other teams plunking our players and tackling them? If we win the next two games, then I'll concede that this team doesn't like being pushed around. But, if this loss doesn't fire this team up, we can kiss the post season goodbye.

OEO Magglio
07-27-2004, 12:40 AM
Dont believe the Player?? Then how about the Manager? Here is what Ozzie said "I know if it happened for MY side,I'd be High-Fiving my Players. If they dont like it,that's a message. That's the way I learned the game,that's the way I played the game. That's the way I want them to play the game,play the game hard."
Look,you're all pissed they lost the game,but if the Sox Players and Manager say it was'nt dirty,then............Grobber, Jamie is in the hospital, he was 5 feet from the plate, torrii could have walked right around him. I hope Torrii gets a fastball under his chin before this series ends but I think weds is the right time to do so, not tomorrow.

doublem23
07-27-2004, 12:40 AM
Uh, we're in a pennant race, let's avoid giving them extra baserunners.

Yeah, it was a cheap shot, but let's not stoop to their level and just go out and beat them. ****in' plunk Hunter in the last game of the year with Minnesota.

medlaker24
07-27-2004, 12:41 AM
Did YOU see the play? Hunter is a tool.

Spikes up for the rest of the series.
I never said it was the right thing to do. I said the hit was dead on. He was NOT hit from behind. Was Burke checking out someone in the stands behind home plate?

Grobber33
07-27-2004, 12:43 AM
Grobber, Jamie is in the hospital, he was 5 feet from the plate, torrii could have walked right around him. I hope Torrii gets a fastball under his chin before this series ends but I think weds is the right time to do so, not tomorrow.
Dont tell me,,,,,tell Ozzie!

Flight #24
07-27-2004, 12:46 AM
Dont believe the Player?? Then how about the Manager? Here is what Ozzie said "I know if it happened for MY side,I'd be High-Fiving my Players. If they dont like it,that's a message. That's the way I learned the game,that's the way I played the game. That's the way I want them to play the game,play the game hard."
Look,you're all pissed they lost the game,but if the Sox Players and Manager say it was'nt dirty,then............
Grobber - obviously I wasn't in the dugout, but here's some quotes from Paul posted on ESPN in the game recap:


"I know he went out of his way," said Chicago's Paul Konerko (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5908), who hit his 27th homer.
"He went to the left so he probably made up his mind when he tagged that he was going to do that. Whether that's bad or cheap, I don't know the unwritten rule."

Mickster
07-27-2004, 12:47 AM
Dont tell me,,,,,tell Ozzie!
Grobber,

Don't get defensive. Did you even see the play? Did you see where Burke was set up before the hit? If you had, there is no way that you could possibly defend Torii's hit. No way.

OEO Magglio
07-27-2004, 12:49 AM
Uh, we're in a pennant race, let's avoid giving them extra baserunners.

Yeah, it was a cheap shot, but let's not stoop to their level and just go out and beat them. ****in' plunk Hunter in the last game of the year with Minnesota.See that's the problem and that's where ozzie has to think of the best way to handle this. Tomorrow I'm afraid the sox aren't going to score many runs, so giving the twins baserunners wouldn't be to smart. Weds, I think the sox will score some but it still comes down to the situation if it's a close game don't drill him, if it's a blow out, nail him.

OEO Magglio
07-27-2004, 12:50 AM
Dont tell me,,,,,tell Ozzie!I can't, wanna tell him for me?:cool:

voodoochile
07-27-2004, 12:53 AM
"I don't know the unwritten rule."
Well why the **** not? Isn't that part of your job? I mean come on. How the **** are the fans supposed to know if you don't even know?

Also, can't Ozzie's comments be interpreted two ways?

Way 1 (the nice way): TorIIIIIIII plays hard. I wish my team would play hard too.

Way 2: The (not so) nice way: TorIIIIIII is a lowlife bitch. He is a cheap dirty player who sent one of ours to the hospital. I wish I had some lowlife bitches on my team who would send TorIIIIII there too...

Of course I didn't hear the post game interview nor see Ozzie's face when he said it.

Freddie, Ozzie's best friend, pitches tomorrow. If anyone levels TorIIII its going to be him. I figure in about 2 hours, Freddie's phone is going to ring...

idseer
07-27-2004, 12:53 AM
I just got back from the game - I was one of the folks giving it to Hunter in the on deck circle.

I think your above quote says it all. I definitely lost respect for Ozzie. Cliff was the perfect guy to have out there at that time. He should have put the next guy in the hospital.

It was obvious that Ozzie had pretty much written off winning tonight (by bringing in Cotts and Jackson) - so why not fire the team up by clearing the benches?

Ozzie needs to figure out that standing up for your players goes along with playing the game hard and right....
it's obvious to me that oz doesn't agree with most of you. and i agree with ozzie.

idseer
07-27-2004, 12:57 AM
Grobber - I'm sorry, but Burke said it was dirty on the broadcast (part of the "miked up" comments).
how would burke know it was dirty. between he and hunter only HE knew he didn't have a play. he wasn't looking at hunter according to a guy i've been arguing with the last hour, so pardon my saying so but burke has no clue wether it wasdirty or not.

dcb33
07-27-2004, 12:57 AM
See that's the problem and that's where ozzie has to think of the best way to handle this. Tomorrow I'm afraid the sox aren't going to score many runs, so giving the twins baserunners wouldn't be to smart. Weds, I think the sox will score some but it still comes down to the situation if it's a close game don't drill him, if it's a blow out, nail him.
The best message we can send to Hunter and the Twins is making sure they are watching the Sox beating the A's, Yankees, or whoever else come October while they are sitting at home on the couch.... We don't need to retaliate directly agaisnt Hunter this series. The best way to handle the situation is to beat the living crap out of them the next two days....

Now, come late September if we are out of it and the Twins are a lock on the division, I sure hope we throw a pitch at that worthless piece of crap's earhole to make sure he won't be able to help the Twins in the playoffs....

HebrewHammer
07-27-2004, 01:03 AM
:ozzie

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send on of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way."

:KW

"Isn't that just like a Twin? Brings a knife to a gun fight."

Flight #24
07-27-2004, 01:05 AM
how would burke know it was dirty. between he and hunter only HE knew he didn't have a play. he wasn't looking at hunter according to a guy i've been arguing with the last hour, so pardon my saying so but burke has no clue wether it wasdirty or not.
I'm paraphrasing here, but Burke basically said "I gave him the plate" when asked about the play and whether or not it was dirty. Translation: I wasn't blocking so there was no reason to barrel into me.

To me, that's dirty. FWIW, Konerko said it was unecessary and that Hunter looked like he'd decided to run into Burke regardless of where the ball or Jamie was or wasn't.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 01:07 AM
how would burke know it was dirty. between he and hunter only HE knew he didn't have a play. he wasn't looking at hunter according to a guy i've been arguing with the last hour, so pardon my saying so but burke has no clue wether it wasdirty or not.
Burke knew it was dirty based upon where he lined up on the play. He was clearly inside of the 3rd base line.

Watch the play closely on sportscenter. Then try to make the same statement.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-27-2004, 01:07 AM
it's obvious to me that oz doesn't agree with most of you. and i agree with ozzie.
I wasn't making death threats either, but I was on him.

Hell, my favorite non-White Sox player of all time is Pete Rose (the player - I despise what he did as a manager). I loved his balls out play all the time, and his running over Fosse was to be applauded, but this was different.

Burke wasn't up the line or even blocking the plate. It was dirty plain and simple. I had an angle where I could see exactly where Burke was in relation to the plate.

It is obvious that Ozzie doesn't agree with putting the next guy on the ground because there have been many opportunities to do it this year, and they haven't been taken.

I have no problem with the idea that we are going to get revenge by winning, but we had better damn well do it then. I don't like sending the message that our players are fair game to hit or take cheap shots on.

There has to be a happy medium.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 01:10 AM
it's obvious to me that oz doesn't agree with most of you. and i agree with ozzie.
How so? Explain your statement.....

ma-gaga
07-27-2004, 01:42 AM
It was pretty obvious that Hunter was trying to send a message. That leveling was probably the most vicious hit I've seen in... a long time. Certainly the most vicious by a Twin in ... 5 years. I couldn't stop yelling at the TV. My poor wife thought I was crazy. (maybe I am, AHAHA)

It looked like Burke was inside the line, but just barely. Hunter could have slid in safely wide, but that was a message shot. We'll see who it fires up more.

Drill him? yeah, if I were Garcia I probably would...

jabrch
07-27-2004, 01:47 AM
There is plenty of time to get Hunter. You can get him later - when it won't be immediate cause for ejection. Hunter, or Stewart, or SOMEONE is gonna get drilled later.

AnkleSox
07-27-2004, 03:13 AM
If the sox are up by a big margin in the late innings, especially maybe if politte is in there with one or two outs and hunter is up to bat, drill him somewhere that its gonna hurt. Otherwise, play it safe.... we have 8 games to get back at this cheap piece of crap.

Aidan
07-27-2004, 03:16 AM
Win the next to games and drill Torii in his last at bat in the Wednesday game. :tongue:

WhiteSox = Life
07-27-2004, 03:38 AM
Win the next to games and drill Torii in his last at bat in the Wednesday game. :tongue:I attended the infamous Paniagua Affair and the LF crowd was yelling "Martha Stewart" at you can guess who. He was due up the next half-inning (the top of the 9th), but Gardenhire subbed him.

In other words, if the Sox are to have a sizable lead, don't expect Torri to be in. Plus, there's no reason to drill him if the Sox have a lead. That's petty and does nothing but infuriate the Twins.

I didn't see the play, but via imagination, yeah, it's a pretty bad hit, and has led to some bad repercussions.

However, I just feel there are better routes in which to channel the pain and anger: complete and utter destruction of the Twins.

medlaker24
07-27-2004, 04:13 AM
Why would we hit Stewart? There are only 2 possible ways to retaliate. Get Hunter, or do the same thing to their catcher. This isn't a retaliation on a pitcher where you just pick a guy to get. You have to retaliate against Hunter, or their player that is in Burkes position.

faneidde
07-27-2004, 08:12 AM
Hunter went out of his way to drill a catcher who didn't have the ball and wasn't blocking the plate. There is no way he needed to do that to score. This was not about breaking up a double play or trying to run over a catcher who has the ball to score a run. This was quite plainly being a punk.

I hope one of the next two games is a blowout, because the pennant race is too important to jeopardize because of a punk like Hunter. He deserves a pitch in the middle of his back. And if Burke is out for any amount of time, he deserves a fastball in the earhole.

I am also amazed at the reaction to this play. The only thing I can see close to this is Albert Belle running over Vina. But even that was more defensible than this, Vina was blocking the basepath and Belle broke up a double play. All Hunter did was show what a complete punk he is by getting a full head of steam and then hitting someone who wasn't even looking from the side.

SOXSINCE'70
07-27-2004, 08:24 AM
I want to see Hunter drilled, but not at the expense of getting Freddie ejected.

I would rather see the Sox come out with some fire and heart and take these last two games from the Twins.
Agreed.The team was flatter than day old soda last night.Let's see if they listen to Ozzie.Hunter's play was a "message".Let's hope the message sinks in.:angry: :angry: :angry:

SaltyPretzel
07-27-2004, 08:41 AM
Does anyone have a link to the play?

illiniwhitesox
07-27-2004, 08:41 AM
how would burke know it was dirty. between he and hunter only HE knew he didn't have a play. he wasn't looking at hunter according to a guy i've been arguing with the last hour, so pardon my saying so but burke has no clue wether it wasdirty or not.
It's posts like this that flat-out piss me off. If you are a catcher and you set up purposefully to give the plate up for a slide and get bowled over - do you not think you know that is a cheap shot? Burke set up inside the line and Hunter moved in to get him. Hunter easily could have gone outside.
Use your brain! Learn the game!

Dadawg_77
07-27-2004, 09:17 AM
Hunter swung at the first pitch.
True but Mike should have put that first pitch in his ear not on the outside corner.

jackbrohamer
07-27-2004, 09:18 AM
Did you see the play? He was not drilled from behind. It was dead on.
Yes I was at the game. He drilled Burke from the side, Burke was not facing his direction.

bobj4400
07-27-2004, 09:22 AM
I can't wait for Baseball Tonight to crucify our fanbase and sanctify Torii Hunter.
Kruk and Reynolds both said it was 'hard-nosed baseball' and loved it.

idseer
07-27-2004, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by idseer
it's obvious to me that oz doesn't agree with most of you. and i agree with ozzie

How so? Explain your statement.....ok. first, i didn't see the play. if that is your only criteria for having an opinion then there is no discussion. however, i've seen where people who DID see it disagree on whether it was 'dirty' or not, so let me take it from there.

there are 2 reasons to take the catcher out on that play.
one ... the runner, who is NOT watching where the ball may be, wants to avoid a decoy move where the catcher pretends there is no play then at the last second catches the ball and makes a sweeping tag. i'm sure most of you have seen this play.
so the safe thing to do there is take the catcher out IF he is close enough to the plate to do this. i've seen his distance from the plate described as anywhere from 2 to 5 feet from the plate. the person i talked to last night said 2 feet and he was sure! i would guess that here the distance keeps getting farther away. :smile:

two ... if there IS a throw coming and you take the catcher out there is a good chance the batter get's an extra base.

it all boils down to where the catcher was. the umpire apparently felt burke was fair game as there was no discussion, no warning, no 'out of the baseline' call and no bench clearing brawl. burke made a stupid and careless decision by not getting out of the way. tori plays hardball and did nothing wrong based on all these pieces of evidence.
throw in that grobber33 spoke of his first-hand talks with players and no one that he saw had a problem with the play.

what burke may have said is of no matter. playing 3rd once i got my bell rung because i was watching the field of play knowing i had no play on a guy coming in to third. thinking it was a cheap shot also my own players said that even tho i wasn't directly blocking the bag i WAS in the path because of the angle the runner had taken. the fact is burke didn't know WHAT had happened.

also, let's face it, sox fans were angry before that play ever happened. they were getting their asses handed to them by our biggest rival AT HOME yet!
it wouldn't take much for you all to see something the way you wanted to see it just to have something else to bitch about.

again ... i didn't see the play, so if that's you're only retort then i have nothing further to say on the subject.

let's win the next 2. :smile:

DaveIsHere
07-27-2004, 09:41 AM
I say we go ut and beat them, and as Hawk said "we file this one" We beat the snot out of them and dont do anything until laster in the year, this way they are always thinking about it when they are at the plate or we are coming in hard. I saw Guzman last night get the hell out of the way in the bottom of the 8th when aaron slid in, he tagged the base and scooted at least 5 feet away from second(what a wuss)

Anyway I thought it was great with the fans givng it to Hunter, I have never liked the guy, and later in the game he made a catch in center and people were still screaming at him, on TV he looked uncomfortable out there.

We have them thinking boys, lets keep it that way

:hawk
"You know what you do with this one you file it away"

Mickster
07-27-2004, 09:44 AM
True but Mike should have put that first pitch in his ear not on the outside corner.
Especially when Davis was set up way inside.....

Mickster
07-27-2004, 09:46 AM
again ... i didn't see the play, so if that's you're only retort then i have nothing further to say on the subject.
See it first, then see if you'll answer the same way.

hawkjt
07-27-2004, 09:46 AM
Anyone that did not see the play should not even comment. When you watched it live and on replay it was clear that Hunter had to veer left to make contact. That is what makes it even worse is he did the last second heat seeking missile veer that Burke could never have imagined was coming. This was as dirty as it gets and I say tonite it should be basebrawl.

idseer
07-27-2004, 09:50 AM
Anyone that did not see the play should not even comment. When you watched it live and on replay it was clear that Hunter had to veer left to make contact. That is what makes it even worse is he did the last second heat seeking missile veer that Burke could never have imagined was coming. This was as dirty as it gets and I say tonite it should be basebrawl.
yeah well i JUST saw it on espn and burke was ABOUT TO CATCH THE BALL!
of COURSE he veered into him!

you babies can whine and cry all you want, but hunter did exactly what ANY smart player does.
holy cow you had me thinking burke was 5 feet in front of the plate holding his mask in his HAND for god's sake!

what wussie fans the sox have!

idseer
07-27-2004, 09:54 AM
just wanted you to know i finally saw the play.

............. and you are so wrong!

i stand by everything i said last night. you tried to make it sound like burke was conceding the run and was out of the play. that wasn't the case at ALL! he was in the process of cathing the ball when hunter did EXACTLY what any good ball player would have done. took him out of the play.

Cubbiesuck13
07-27-2004, 09:59 AM
just wanted you to know i finally saw the play.

............. and you are so wrong!

i stand by everything i said last night. you tried to make it sound like burke was conceding the run and was out of the play. that wasn't the case at ALL! he was in the process of cathing the ball when hunter did EXACTLY what any good ball player would have done. took him out of the play.

correct. just good baseball.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 10:04 AM
yeah well i JUST saw it on espn and burke was ABOUT TO CATCH THE BALL!
of COURSE he veered into him!

you babies can whine and cry all you want, but hunter did exactly what ANY smart player does.
holy cow you had me thinking burke was 5 feet in front of the plate holding his mask in his HAND for god's sake!

what wussie fans the sox have!
Going in hard is one thing. Going at one's head with both arms as opposed to one's shoulder is another.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2004/0726/photo/a_hunter_ft.jpg

GET A CLUE.

idseer
07-27-2004, 10:09 AM
Going in hard is one thing. Going at one's head with both arms as opposed to one's shoulder is another.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2004/0726/photo/a_hunter_ft.jpg

GET A CLUE.get your own clue, mick. i'd rather be hit with an arm than a shoulder.
ANY DAY!

SoxFan78
07-27-2004, 10:10 AM
just wanted you to know i finally saw the play.

............. and you are so wrong!

i stand by everything i said last night. you tried to make it sound like burke was conceding the run and was out of the play. that wasn't the case at ALL! he was in the process of cathing the ball when hunter did EXACTLY what any good ball player would have done. took him out of the play.
Burke was a foot and a half to two feet from the plate. Hunter could of slid away from Burke and easily could of got in for the run. Burke was NOT blocking the plate, and it could of been avoided.

Hunter showed no class last night, and I hope at some point one of the Sox pitchers puts a ball in his ear.

3Peater
07-27-2004, 10:13 AM
Burke was a foot and a half to two feet from the plate. Hunter could of slid away from Burke and easily could of got in for the run. Burke was NOT blocking the plate, and it could of been avoided.

Hunter showed no class last night, and I hope at some point one of the Sox pitchers puts a ball in his ear.
What if Burke had fielded the ball, swept for Hunter and broken his hand, ala Molina last year? That would be much worse!

idseer
07-27-2004, 10:13 AM
Burke was a foot and a half to two feet from the plate. Hunter could of slid away from Burke and easily could of got in for the run. Burke was NOT blocking the plate, and it could of been avoided.

Hunter showed no class last night, and I hope at some point one of the Sox pitchers puts a ball in his ear.yes, it could have been avoided. actualy ALL physical contact in baseball can be avoided. is that how YOU play?

i already gave my explanations as to why you take the catcher out there. if you choose to ignore that argument that's your problem.

where you see no class and where i see it are 2 different places. no class to me is whinning about a good play and crying for revenge. THAT is no class imo.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 10:15 AM
yes, it could have been avoided. actualy ALL physical contact in baseball can be avoided. is that how YOU play?

i already gave my explanations as to why you take the catcher out there. if you choose to ignore that argument that's your problem.

where you see no class and where i see it are 2 different places. no class to me is whinning about a good play and crying for revenge. THAT is no class imo.
No class is getting drilled, applauding the opponents play, and rolling over. Plain and simple.

idseer
07-27-2004, 10:18 AM
No class is getting drilled, applauding the opponents play, and rolling over. Plain and simple.
getting drilled is part of a catcher's lot. and the sox only roll over if they don't try to emulate hunter's game.

you are crying about the wrong thing mick.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 10:19 AM
getting drilled is part of a catcher's lot. and the sox only roll over if they don't try to emulate hunter's game.

you are crying about the wrong thing mick.
:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

SoxFan76
07-27-2004, 10:21 AM
I call that a cheap shot. A baseball play would be like what I-Rod and Valentin did during that series. Ivan slid hard into 2nd trying to break up a DP. Both of them got tangled, and after the play was over Ivan helped up Jose, gave a pat on the ass and were on their way. Torii was gunning for Burke. He had to leave the baseline to hit him. That's BS. And it's not like it was the go ahead run. That run made the score 5-1.

Sox-on-TV44
07-27-2004, 10:22 AM
:angry: Hell yeah!

DRILL HIM!!!!!!!!

If he wants to play with "Intensity".He'll get "intensity"!Drill Torii "Spelling" Hunter:angry: .

:notwinks
CRUSH THE TWINKIES!!!!!!!!!!

idseer
07-27-2004, 10:22 AM
I call that a cheap shot. A baseball play would be like what I-Rod and Valentin did during that series. Ivan slid hard into 2nd trying to break up a DP. Both of them got tangled, and after the play was over Ivan helped up Jose, gave a pat on the ass and were on their way. Torii was gunning for Burke. He had to leave the baseline to hit him. That's BS. And it's not like it was the go ahead run. That run made the score 5-1.
if he'd left the baseline the ump would have called him out.

nice try tho.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-27-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by idseer
two ... if there IS a throw coming and you take the catcher out there is a good chance the batter get's an extra base.
This is the only explanation I will take for the hit, but Hunter didn't make it.

That did cross my mind as I was thinking about the play while falling asleep last night.

I have been informed by people who were watching on TV last night that Hawk went nuts over the play and is obviously on our side of this argument. Also, they had a mic on Burke last night and he was quite upset in the dugout after the play.

I still think it is poor on the Sox part to not stick up for one of their own - you have to defend your teammates. The Sox look like they are playing scared/intimidated right now, and that needs to change.

idseer
07-27-2004, 10:34 AM
This is the only explanation I will take for the hit, but Hunter didn't make it.

That did cross my mind as I was thinking about the play while falling asleep last night.

I have been informed by people who were watching on TV last night that Hawk went nuts over the play and is obviously on our side of this argument. Also, they had a mic on Burke last night and he was quite upset in the dugout after the play.

I still think it is poor on the Sox part to not stick up for one of their own - you have to defend your teammates. The Sox look like they are playing scared/intimidated right now, and that needs to change.
you're right in that this is not a tough team. thomas (and don't give me crap for this sox fans ... you know it's true) and crew will usually try to avoid anything that might hurt. baseball is a lot more than pure talent.
oz really has his work cut out for him.

MushMouth
07-27-2004, 10:35 AM
I call that a cheap shot. A baseball play would be like what I-Rod and Valentin did during that series. Ivan slid hard into 2nd trying to break up a DP. Both of them got tangled, and after the play was over Ivan helped up Jose, gave a pat on the ass and were on their way. Torii was gunning for Burke. He had to leave the baseline to hit him. That's BS. And it's not like it was the go ahead run. That run made the score 5-1.

DEFINITELY

Sometimes in baseball, especially in a pennant race, you have to make a point as a team. If we don't plug someone tonight I think we're sending the wrong message about our team to the Twins, a team that has beaten us with less talent for 3 years now. Ozzie is the guy that should make that decision.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-27-2004, 10:42 AM
you're right in that this is not a tough team. thomas (and don't give me crap for this sox fans ... you know it's true) and crew will usually try to avoid anything that might hurt. baseball is a lot more than pure talent.
oz really has his work cut out for him.I agree. Frank is my favorite player and has been since I saw his first game with the Sox in 1989, but he has had many an opportunity over the years to absolutely crush some catchers and never has. I would like to see him or Borchard take someone out at some point; he could do some serious damage.

Grobber33
07-27-2004, 12:10 PM
Grobber,

Don't get defensive. Did you even see the play? Did you see where Burke was set up before the hit? If you had, there is no way that you could possibly defend Torii's hit. No way.
I saw the play, I was there. I'm not defending or trashing him. I deferred to Sox People like Guillen,and others including certain Front Office people. Yelp all you want, hell that's about being a fan, but the Sox own Manager said he would high five any of his own Players that would have done the same thing that Hunter did. If a Sox player did the same thing, you would all be ready to High Five him as well.

ma-gaga
07-27-2004, 01:34 PM
Where were Burke's feet when he got crushed?

I thought that on the first base side replay, that his body was setup outside the basepaths, but his legs were still straddling the line. IMO if his foot was in foul territory and his body was in fair territory, he is fair game despite Torii having a 'clear path to the bag' around him.

But I only saw THAT replay once. The others were from CF/homeplate or the picture from the dugout cameras, and from those angles it is hard to see where Burke was setup from.

Fungo
07-27-2004, 02:38 PM
This is the same clown that was hit by a pitch a few years ago and then threw the ball back at the pitcher full force. He has a history and a temper.

habibharu
07-27-2004, 02:39 PM
nail him!

idseer
07-27-2004, 02:41 PM
This is the same clown that was hit by a pitch a few years ago and then threw the ball back at the pitcher full force. He has a history and a temper.
the fact he may have a temper is not the issue tho, is it? he may be the biggest jerk in the game for all i know, but he did nothing wrong on that play.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 02:44 PM
the fact he may have a temper is not the issue tho, is it? he may be the biggest jerk in the game for all i know, but he did nothing wrong on that play.
That is your opinion.

Fungo
07-27-2004, 02:48 PM
the fact he may have a temper is not the issue tho, is it? he may be the biggest jerk in the game for all i know, but he did nothing wrong on that play.Mariotti is that you? Are you arguing the opposite just for the sake of arguement? That play was as dirty as it gets.
With Pierzynski gone & Mientkiewicz on the trading block apparently the twins are taking applications for "new team jagoff" and that was Hunter's submission.

illiniwhitesox
07-27-2004, 02:48 PM
if he'd left the baseline the ump would have called him out.

nice try tho.
Very laughable response. The ump would have called it. I've never known an ump to miss a call or not make a call in any sport at any time. PLEAAAAAASE!! Unfortunately, your attempt is as lame as I have seen on this board.

The legality of the collission is not in question. It's not against the rules. It's the unwritten rule that matters in this case. Hunter had an angle at the plate, where he could have avoided the collission. Instead, he went at Burke, risking his own ability to touch home-plate.

Of course Guillen wants his players to play this way. His response to his players is, "What are you going to do about it?" or "Can you match their intensity?"

I'll defer to Hawk and Burke on this one. It's a cheap shot and I hope the Sox go in spikes up the next two games.

Mickster
07-27-2004, 02:49 PM
Very laughable response. The ump would have called it. I've never known an ump to miss a call or not make a call in any sport at any time. PLEAAAAAASE!! Unfortunately, your attempt is as lame as I have seen on this board.

The legality of the collission is not in question. It's not against the rules. It's the unwritten rule that matters in this case. Hunter had an angle at the plate, where he could have avoided the collission. Instead, he went at Burke, risking his own ability to touch home-plate.

Of course Guillen wants his players to play this way. His response to his players is, "What are you going to do about it?" or "Can you match their intensity?"

I'll defer to Hawk and Burke on this one. It's a cheap shot and I hope the Sox go in spikes up the next two games.
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Brian26
07-27-2004, 03:17 PM
Just a quick point-

It's possible many of the Sox players commented on the play before seeing the tv replays, Ozzie included. From the dugout, maybe it was hard to tell how far off the plate Burke was. From the tv replay, it was very conclusive that Hunter went OUT OF HIS WAY to nail Burke, then had to get up and make a ****ing 90-degree turn to walk over to the plate. My ASS that's a clean play.

Second, I can't make up my mind if it's super cool or utterly pathetic that Mark Buehrle had to drive Burke to the hospital last night.

idseer
07-27-2004, 03:21 PM
Just a quick point-

It's possible many of the Sox players commented on the play before seeing the tv replays, Ozzie included. From the dugout, maybe it was hard to tell how far off the plate Burke was. From the tv replay, it was very conclusive that Hunter went OUT OF HIS WAY to nail Burke, then had to get up and make a ****ing 90-degree turn to walk over to the plate. My ASS that's a clean play.

Second, I can't make up my mind if it's super cool or utterly pathetic that Mark Buehrle had to drive Burke to the hospital last night.
if you REALLY saw the play, then you saw that hunter TOUCHED THE PLATE ON THAT PLAY! he didn't have to go back to hit it. he did that to be sure, which is something players do all the time when there is a collision at home.

Brian26
07-27-2004, 03:28 PM
if you REALLY saw the play, then you saw that hunter TOUCHED THE PLATE ON THAT PLAY! he didn't have to go back to hit it. he did that to be sure, which is something players do all the time when there is a collision at home.

I guess you and I were watching different games last night. I was watching the Fox Sports Net broadcast out of Chicago? What were you watching in Pennsylvania?

Mickster
07-27-2004, 03:33 PM
I guess you and I were watching different games last night. I was watching the Fox Sports Net broadcast out of Chicago? What were you watching in Pennsylvania?
He formed his opinion before even seeing the play.

idseer
07-27-2004, 03:48 PM
I guess you and I were watching different games last night. I was watching the Fox Sports Net broadcast out of Chicago? What were you watching in Pennsylvania?
brian, i saw the replay on sports center today. clearly, the camera from behind home plate showed his foot drag the plate DURING the play.
are you saying this isn't so?

idseer
07-27-2004, 03:51 PM
He formed his opinion before even seeing the play.
and my opinion you you, mickster, is dropping rapidly. i explained fully WHY it was my opinion.

what was the reason you threw this little tidbit out there?

Mickster
07-27-2004, 03:52 PM
and my opinion you you, mickster, is dropping rapidly. i explained fully WHY it was my opinion.

what was the reason you threw this little tidbit out there?
Is my "tidbit" factually inaccurate?

Brian26
07-27-2004, 05:42 PM
brian, i saw the replay on sports center today. clearly, the camera from behind home plate showed his foot drag the plate DURING the play.
are you saying this isn't so?

USE COMMON SENSE!

Who in the HELL rounds third base and ends up sliding into home plate 4-ft on the inside part of the line? Do you even have a clue how much Hunter had to go out of his way to nail Burke? After rounding third, Hunter was 15-ft towards the Sox dugout. As he was coming towards the plate, obviously he had to cut that down. WHY don't you understand that Hunter actually crossed the thirdbase line from the dugout side to the infield side and went at least 4 or 5 feet out of his way to completely coldcock Burke, who didn't even have his knees bent to catch the ball?

If Hunter actually dragged 1 centimeter of his foot across the plate is completely irrelevant to this argument. The INTENT was a cheapshot. The fact that he had to go back and touch the base afterwards speaks volumes, as he had a clear path to the plate, but instead chose to cheapshot Burke and then go back and get the plate in case he didn't touch it the first time. It was a no-good cheapshot. You're trying to make it sound like Burke was close enough to block the plate. But, he WASN'T. Hunter took an angle that was completely moving away from the plate. After the cheapshot collusion, he got up, turned 90 ****ing degrees, and walked over and touched the plate.

:angry:

And you're going to tell me a ****ing Sportscenter replay tells the whole story?

soxwon
07-27-2004, 05:45 PM
The Sox will get back at Hunter for that. If I know Ozzie, Hunter will pay and it won't be with the Sox down big, it will come at the worst possible time for the Twins and it will be off Hunter's knee or head.


we dont need garcia suspended!!! or tossed
the umps will warn both teams tonight.
if someone gets tossed be it jackson or adkins

Foulke29
07-27-2004, 05:46 PM
You know what bums me. A classy ball player like Kirby Puckett is hit in the face and goes blind in one eye - losing the ability to play ball. Moreso, he's hit by his best friend in life - Dennis Martinez.

Here we have a chump like Hunter roaming CF these days - who deserves to be hit in the face - but we're not even going to see a plunk to the butt. :angry:

nasox
07-27-2004, 06:03 PM
I want to hit hunter so much more, because, per ESPN Radio, Torii hunter is complaining about security at the cell. What the **** happened to initiate this?

Still, I don't think we should hit hunter because of the repercutions (garcia being tossed, benches clearing, etc.)

nasox
07-27-2004, 06:08 PM
He just said, sox fans come to the park to "drink a beer" What a jagoff. Also said, "he's from the hood, and got shot at ever day." Let's kick this guy's ass and show him what an assclown he is. I hate this guy. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

italiancee
07-27-2004, 06:14 PM
everyone on here cryign about what hunter did sounds like a bunch of cub fans.


you are ignoring the fact that burlee sucked last night,.and that we lost

and if hunter didnt knock burke we still would have lost.yeah hunters a punk.but ohwell thats baseball.people need to stop expecting everyone to be reasonable and polite all the time.


now can we please win these next 2?!

Foulke29
07-27-2004, 06:15 PM
everyone on here cryign about what hunter did sounds like a bunch of cub fans.


you are ignoring the fact that burlee sucked last night,.and that we lost

and if hunter didnt knock burke we still would have lost.yeah hunters a punk.but ohwell thats baseball.people need to stop expecting everyone to be reasonable and polite all the time.


now can we please win these next 2?!
Who's Burlee?

nasox
07-27-2004, 06:31 PM
everyone on here cryign about what hunter did sounds like a bunch of cub fans.


you are ignoring the fact that burlee sucked last night,.and that we lost

and if hunter didnt knock burke we still would have lost.yeah hunters a punk.but ohwell thats baseball.people need to stop expecting everyone to be reasonable and polite all the time.


now can we please win these next 2?!
Buehrle did not suck. He was not great, not bad, just....mediocre. He left the game with us down 3 runs. Gave up hits, but didn't do a bad job.

Blob
07-27-2004, 06:40 PM
I know I'm in the minority but what would drilling Hunter do? i know the game was out of hand but if Ozzie's not mad why should anyone else? It is all a part of the game. No one though Carlos should have been drilled after he took out the Tigger at second on Sunday. That was a hard slide he went out of his way to make.


Ozzie was right, come back tonight and look for your opportunity to get even!!!

idseer
07-27-2004, 07:05 PM
USE COMMON SENSE!

Who in the HELL rounds third base and ends up sliding into home plate 4-ft on the inside part of the line? Do you even have a clue how much Hunter had to go out of his way to nail Burke? After rounding third, Hunter was 15-ft towards the Sox dugout. As he was coming towards the plate, obviously he had to cut that down. WHY don't you understand that Hunter actually crossed the thirdbase line from the dugout side to the infield side and went at least 4 or 5 feet out of his way to completely coldcock Burke, who didn't even have his knees bent to catch the ball?

If Hunter actually dragged 1 centimeter of his foot across the plate is completely irrelevant to this argument. The INTENT was a cheapshot. The fact that he had to go back and touch the base afterwards speaks volumes, as he had a clear path to the plate, but instead chose to cheapshot Burke and then go back and get the plate in case he didn't touch it the first time. It was a no-good cheapshot. You're trying to make it sound like Burke was close enough to block the plate. But, he WASN'T. Hunter took an angle that was completely moving away from the plate. After the cheapshot collusion, he got up, turned 90 ****ing degrees, and walked over and touched the plate.

:angry:

And you're going to tell me a ****ing Sportscenter replay tells the whole story?
god ... some people keep spewing out the same crap over and over.
you want to ignore the facts go right ahead. too bad you don't understand how the game is played. you can call it a cheap shot till hell freezes over ... that doesn't make it so. all you want is something to cry about. well, go ahead and cry if it helps.

Wealz
07-27-2004, 07:14 PM
Hunter plastered Burke when Burke a.) wasn't blocking the plate and b.) wasn't in posession of the ball. In fact, he interfered with Burke's ability to catch the ball and could have (should have) been called out.

idseer
07-27-2004, 07:27 PM
Hunter plastered Burke when Burke a.) wasn't blocking the plate and b.) wasn't in posession of the ball. In fact, he interfered with Burke's ability to catch the ball and could have (should have) been called out.
apparently some of you were taught the game by your grandmothers.

Wealz
07-27-2004, 07:29 PM
apparently some of you were taught the game by your grandmothers.
What do you mean?

idseer
07-27-2004, 07:32 PM
What do you mean?
i mean you don't know what you're talking about.

the catcher doesn't have to have the ball to be hit within the rules. was the ump standing right there or not? did he call hunter out for interference or not?

and while he wasn't directly between the plate and hunter he was within swiping distance, the whole reason hunter was allowed to take him out.

Wealz
07-27-2004, 07:43 PM
the catcher doesn't have to have the ball to be hit within the rules..
Source?

and while he wasn't directly between the plate and hunter he was within swiping distance, the whole reason hunter was allowed to take him out.
Source?

idseer
07-27-2004, 07:46 PM
Source?


Source?
the baseball rulebook! look it up. if you think i'm going to give you page numbers you're mistaken. would i also need to provide a source to show you 4 balls is a walk?

Wealz
07-27-2004, 07:49 PM
the baseball rulebook! look it up. if you think i'm going to give you page numbers you're mistaken. would i also need to provide a source to show you 4 balls is a walk?
Give me a page number, should not be difficult.

idseer
07-27-2004, 07:53 PM
Give me a page number, should not be difficult.
nice talkin' to ya weaz.

Brian26
07-27-2004, 08:19 PM
god ... some people keep spewing out the same crap over and over.
you want to ignore the facts go right ahead. too bad you don't understand how the game is played. you can call it a cheap shot till hell freezes over ... that doesn't make it so. all you want is something to cry about. well, go ahead and cry if it helps.
Actually, cheap shots like that aren't "playing the game".


"Playing the game" means taking the plate when the catcher gives it to you. "Playing the game" means colliding with the catcher when he's in the process of catching the ball and/or blocking the plate. Neither of these things happened.

idseer
07-27-2004, 08:23 PM
Actually, cheap shots like that aren't "playing the game".


"Playing the game" means taking the plate when the catcher gives it to you. "Playing the game" means colliding with the catcher when he's in the process of catching the ball and/or blocking the plate. Neither of these things happened.
burke WAS in the process of catching the ball. i thought you said you saw it?

Wealz
07-27-2004, 08:44 PM
burke WAS in the process of catching the ball. i thought you said you saw it?
He wasn't blocking the plate though.

idseer
07-27-2004, 08:45 PM
He wasn't blocking the plate though.
but he WAS in the lane .... fair game. not knowing just where the ball was i'd have gone for him too.

Wealz
07-27-2004, 08:54 PM
but he WAS in the lane .... fair game. not knowing just where the ball was i'd have gone for him too.
"In the lane" doesn't mean anything. He was not blocking the plate. Hunter interfered with Burke's ability to field the ball.

idseer
07-27-2004, 08:55 PM
"In the lane" doesn't mean anything. He was not blocking the plate. Hunter interfered with Burke's ability to field the ball.
yes he did. legally. and wisely.

Acid
07-27-2004, 09:15 PM
This is the 3rd series in a row where we have been made to look like little girls, we get hit, knocked down and now run over and we have done nothing about it! I feel winning is better then any revenge but were not doing that as much as I would like right now either. Ozzie, you have to back your boys pu or they wont play their hearts for you, just look at last years manager.


Go Sox!

Brian26
07-27-2004, 09:18 PM
yes he did. legally. and wisely.
And it was a cheapshot. Case closed.

idseer
07-27-2004, 09:19 PM
And it was a cheapshot. Case closed.
:rolleyes:

BlackAndWhite
07-28-2004, 12:27 AM
In case anyone cares what the applicable rulings are (from MLB.com):

7.06
The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.
and

7.08
Any runner is out when_ (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball
These are the only relevant texts I can find in the rulebook. I've seen the play, and comparing it to these rules, I can't find any technical fault with what Hunter did. I'd be interested if anyone read a different rule that they considered relevant.

Brian26
07-28-2004, 12:44 AM
These are the only relevant texts I can find in the rulebook. I've seen the play, and comparing it to these rules, I can't find any technical fault with what Hunter did. I'd be interested if anyone read a different rule that they considered relevant.
Nice job, thanks for the post.

Did Hunter stray more than 3 feet from the baseline when he nailed Burke? It was probably pretty close, but the baseline isn't just the chalk line- but rather the three-foot path centered over it. So, did Hunter stray 1.5-ft plus another three feet? Eh, it's borderline.

Bottom line is this- and we may have to agree to disagree on this whole issue, but Hunter, last night, probably barely got away with doing something within the rules (borderline), but there's no questioning that it was cheap. He did it within the context of the rulebook, but it can still be defined as a cheapshot.
That's my take.

Just because it was legal, doesn't make it sportsmanlike or right. It was a cheapshot. Burke wasn't blocking the plate like Ray Fosse.

mealfred13
07-28-2004, 05:56 AM
Nice job, thanks for the post.

Did Hunter stray more than 3 feet from the baseline when he nailed Burke? It was probably pretty close, but the baseline isn't just the chalk line- but rather the three-foot path centered over it. So, did Hunter stray 1.5-ft plus another three feet? Eh, it's borderline.

Bottom line is this- and we may have to agree to disagree on this whole issue, but Hunter, last night, probably barely got away with doing something within the rules (borderline), but there's no questioning that it was cheap. He did it within the context of the rulebook, but it can still be defined as a cheapshot.
That's my take.

Just because it was legal, doesn't make it sportsmanlike or right. It was a cheapshot. Burke wasn't blocking the plate like Ray Fosse.The most sensible post I've read, and I agree 100%. The issue of such heated debate was never whether what Hunter did was legal according to the rules of baseball. It was whether or not it was necessary, and as such, a cheapshot. He had a clear path to the plate, but seeing as he was withing 3 feet, Burke was fair game for a hit, even though Hunter had to change his path of movement to hit him. It was this intentional and unnecessary change in direction away from the plate, coupled with his arms aiming directly at Burke's head, that made it an obvious cheapshot, regardless of legality according to the rules.