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View Full Version : Breaking Sox Trade Rumors! - Corey Lidle?


habibharu
07-26-2004, 11:25 AM
Three things according to offman: 1. the sox are not looking to spend a lot of money at the deadline(big surprise!) 2. they are looking for a cheap SP, corey lidle has been the name most brought up 3. they are looking for a bat, probably to come of the bench and add depth.

SoxxoS
07-26-2004, 11:30 AM
Bring on Lidle, another 3/4 pitcher can't hurt, as long as we don't give up too much.

I wish they would speculate on who the bat was.

I wish Borchard would get hot so he would up his trade value to SOMEWHAT respectable.

kittle42
07-26-2004, 11:52 AM
Ahh, yet another team built to be "happy to make the playoffs."

BearSox
07-26-2004, 11:53 AM
KW's watched the debacle yesterday and isn't addressing the bullpen?

habibharu
07-26-2004, 11:54 AM
KW's watched the debacle yesterday and isn't addressing the bullpen? offman didnt mention anything about the bullpen

WSox8404
07-26-2004, 11:55 AM
KW's watched the debacle yesterday and isn't addressing the bullpen?
If we get another starter, someone will have to be put in the pen, most likely Shoenweis. This will help that problem out a little. And we have a few minor leaguers who should be able to do a better job than Cotts or Jackson.

Royle Stillman
07-26-2004, 11:57 AM
Also, if we got another starter who could go seven plus innings it would take pressure off the bullpen.

Soxzilla
07-26-2004, 11:58 AM
If we get another starter, someone will have to be put in the pen, most likely Shoenweis. This will help that problem out a little. And we have a few minor leaguers who should be able to do a better job than Cotts or Jackson.
Schoe and diaz in the pen for cotts and jackson.

They can't AND won't be any worse.

habibharu
07-26-2004, 12:00 PM
Schoe and diaz in the pen for cotts and jackson.

They can't AND won't be any worse. yes but corey lidle is not gonna get the job done as the 5th starter! he is probably worse than sho. his ERA was about 7 last year! i dont know what KW sees in this guy!

rmusacch
07-26-2004, 12:00 PM
Bring on Lidle, another 3/4 pitcher can't hurt, as long as we don't give up too much.

I wish they would speculate on who the bat was.

I wish Borchard would get hot so he would up his trade value to SOMEWHAT respectable.
Can't get hot if they do not play him.

Soxzilla
07-26-2004, 12:01 PM
Can't get hot if they do not play him.
Yeah I don't want him either. When your in a pennant race, you have to go with someone that can prove he can pitch where he is placed in the rotation

Like benson:smile:

jabrch
07-26-2004, 12:02 PM
Ahh, yet another team built to be "happy to make the playoffs."

Yeah - cuz it was built with the expectation that after both the Garcia trade and the Everett trade, Ordonez and Thomas would end up being shelved, possibly for the entire season.

That's nonsense Kittle. This team was not built "happy to make the playoffs" and you know it.

habibharu
07-26-2004, 12:03 PM
Yeah I don't want him either. When your in a pennant race, you have to go with someone that can prove he can pitch where he is placed in the rotation

Like benson:smile: no way we can get benson. we would have to give up crede or rowand and some prospects. we cant afford that

habibharu
07-26-2004, 12:04 PM
Yeah - cuz it was built with the expectation that after both the Garcia trade and the Everett trade, Ordonez and Thomas would end up being shelved, possibly for the entire season.

That's nonsense Kittle. This team was not built "happy to make the playoffs" and you know it. i dont know. we got questions at 3b, 2b, 4th and 5th starter, the bullpen. KW has to do something to address those things

PaleHoseGeorge
07-26-2004, 12:04 PM
The only "debacle" yesterday was our lineup looking sick for nearly 4 innings against a B-grade relief pitcher from Detroit's bullpen. That's the reason we lost. You don't expect to win when you only score 2 runs.

If you're looking for a lesser "debacle," consider what Ozzie said about his starting pitcher. Garland was nibbling and apparently doesn't care that his manager is upset with him for nibbling. As someone who watched the game live, I think Garland was damn lucky to only get nailed for 4 runs charged in six innings worked. He wasn't even coming close with a lot of his pitches.

Garland is only 24, but sometimes he acts like he's 19 out there. And as for his post-game comments, sometimes he sounds like a 12 year-old.

Aidan
07-26-2004, 12:08 PM
Boers and Bernstein on WSCR 670 The Score say the White Sox want an inexpensive starting pitcher and another bat off the bench before the deadline. They said that the Sox may be looking into Cory Lidle from the Reds.

They also said that the Twins are working on a deal for Kris Benson with Doug Mientkiewicz. :o:

jabrch
07-26-2004, 12:12 PM
i dont know. we got questions at 3b, 2b, 4th and 5th starter, the bullpen. KW has to do something to address those things

I don't think we have questions at any of those spots. We have answers that you may not like - but that's different than questions. Crede is the 3B on this team. Uribe and Harris play 2B. 4 is Garland, 5 is Scho. If they improve - great. But they are not questions at all.

Excluding the Yankees, who would love to have our problems at 2B, what team doesn't have players in the lineup who aren't all-stars? I don't know what you want - stars at every position? That's called the Yankees. We have guys everywhere who are contributing, even the questions that you talk about. Could we improve? sure - who cant? But to say we are "built happy to make the playoffs is not accurate"

dickallen15
07-26-2004, 12:14 PM
This is all according to George Offman, and the Score. I wouldn't put too much weight into these rumors.

CPditka
07-26-2004, 12:16 PM
I dont see why KW doesnt make the move that makes sense.....

Needs:

SP
Catcher (long term)
3B bat

Sox Pride....


hmmm, look no further than the MLB farm system aka the Pirates

Benson (can be had if we pick up Kendall's contract)
Kendall
Mackowiak (from Nortwest Indiana, grew up Sox Fan)



we give up

Diaz/Cotts
Jackson
Ben Davis
Crede

thoughts?

habibharu
07-26-2004, 12:17 PM
I dont see why KW doesnt make the move that makes sense.....

Needs:

SP
Catcher (long term)
3B bat

Sox Pride....


hmmm, look no further than the MLB farm system aka the Pirates

Benson (can be had if we pick up Kendall's contract)
Kendall
Mackowiak (from Nortwest Indiana, grew up Sox Fan)



we give up

Diaz/Cotts
Jackson
Ben Davis
Crede

thoughts? who plays 3b?

WSox8404
07-26-2004, 12:18 PM
yes but corey lidle is not gonna get the job done as the 5th starter! he is probably worse than sho. his ERA was about 7 last year! i dont know what KW sees in this guy!
RERHRBBSO2001OAK 13 6 3.59 29 29 1 0 0 0 188.0 170 84 75 23 47 118 2002OAK 8 10 3.89 31 30 2 2 0 0 192.0 191 90 83 17 39 111 2003TOR 12 15 5.75 31 31 2 0 0 0 192.2 216 133 123 24 60 112


His ERA wasn't even 6. But I don't think this would be that bad of a pickup. He had some good years with Oakland. Maybe we can work with him and get him back to where he used to be.

IlliniSoxFan
07-26-2004, 12:18 PM
Mackowiak would play 3rd.


And no thank you to Cory Lidle.

CPditka
07-26-2004, 12:24 PM
Yes Mackowiak would play third, he played for Lake Central and is from Scheriville. (sp?)

Any his D would only be a minor downgrade, plus he is young, and batting like .280 I think.

bigdommer
07-26-2004, 12:25 PM
If we get another starter, someone will have to be put in the pen, most likely Shoenweis. This will help that problem out a little. And we have a few minor leaguers who should be able to do a better job than Cotts or Jackson.
I don't like Shoney in the pen. He wasn't that good out of the pen last year, and he has not been shy about stating his displeasure in pitching out of the pen.

I would hate to see an unhappy, lame duck pitcher in our pen. Because if he moves to the pen, there is no chance of him returning next year.

gosox41
07-26-2004, 12:25 PM
KW's watched the debacle yesterday and isn't addressing the bullpen?
If the Sox get another starter then Schoenweis goes to the bullpen. He is a better option then Jackson even if he is a little crybaby who thinkgs he deserves a spot in the rotation.


Bob

3Peater
07-26-2004, 12:26 PM
Boers and Bernstein on WSCR 670 The Score say the White Sox want an inexpensive starting pitcher and another bat off the bench before the deadline. They said that the Sox may be looking into Cory Lidle from the Reds.

They also said that the Twins are working on a deal for Kris Benson with Doug Mientkiewicz. :o:
Minneapolis beat writer(huge Bears fan btw) reported the Twins have already told Mienktiewicz he'll be traded. Boston is supposedly after him for his defense. Pittsburgh had Pete Vukovich, special assistant, in Baltimore this weeken.d

Evman5
07-26-2004, 12:27 PM
I don't thing Lidle is a big improvement over Schoeneweis. However, this move would maybe kill two birds with one stone by giving us some help in the pen with Schoeneweis being moved there. Is Schoeneweis really that good from the pen though? I thought he struggled in the bullpen when he was with the Angels.

If we made this move would we be giving up less than what it would take to get some bullpen help?

Aidan
07-26-2004, 12:27 PM
Cory Lidle would make sense. He's cheap ($2,750,000) and may be able to turn it around on a better team. He's played for some crappy teams in his career (Mets, Devil Rays, Blue Jays, and Reds). His career numbers aren't great but they aren't horrible either...

Cory Lidle (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5806)
51 Wins
47 Losses
4.53 ERA

It would bump Schoeneweis to the bullpen where he belongs. Cotts may be involved in the trade or another one before the deadline anyways so Schoeneweis would replace him. Lidle would be a decent #4 or #5 starter.

I could see this going down. Kenny Williams has made trades with the Reds in the past (Scott Sullivan and D'Angelo Jimenez). I wouldn't mind getting Willy Mo Pena from the Reds as well, but I don't see that happening.

kittle545feet
07-26-2004, 12:29 PM
Three things according to offman: 1. the sox are not looking to spend a lot of money at the deadline(big surprise!) 2. they are looking for a cheap SP, corey lidle has been the name most brought up 3. they are looking for a bat, probably to come of the bench and add depth.i know this is only a report but i think maybe this should quiet those of you who have argued bigger crowds means the sox will spend more money. i have argued forever that crowds don't mean nothing with jerry in charge. also, wouldn't olerud have been the veteran bat off the bench the report is looking for? for only $300,000 we could have had him and if they are looking to spend nearly nothing, tell me a better option.:mad:

Evman5
07-26-2004, 12:33 PM
Cory Lidle would make sense. He's cheap ($2,750,000) and may be able to turn it around on a better team. He's played for some crappy teams in his career (Mets, Devil Rays, Blue Jays, and Reds). His career numbers aren't great but they aren't horrible either...

Cory Lidle (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5806)
51 Wins
47 Losses
4.53 ERA

It would bump Schoeneweis to the bullpen where he belongs. Cotts may be involved in the trade or another one before the deadline anyways so Schoeneweis would replace him.

I could see this going down. Kenny Williams has made trades with the Reds in the past (Scott Sullivan and D'Angelo Jimenez). I wouldn't mind getting Willy Mo Pena from the Reds as well, but I don't see that happening.

I mean basically Lidle was good in Oakland but over the last couple of years he has sucked. Also do you guys remember that there were rumors a year or two ago that we were going to trade Rowand to Oakland for Lidle? I am glad that one never happened.:smile:

Aidan
07-26-2004, 12:34 PM
i know this is only a report but i think maybe this should quiet those of you who have argued bigger crowds means the sox will spend more money. i have argued forever that crowds don't mean nothing with jerry in charge. also, wouldn't olerud have been the veteran bat off the bench the report is looking for? for only $300,000 we could have had him and if they are looking to spend nearly nothing, tell me a better option.:mad:Olerud would be a nice base-clogger. Maybe KW is looking for something better. Also, I've read that Olerud only wants to play on the West Coast. Otherwise, he will retire.

Aidan
07-26-2004, 12:36 PM
I mean basically Lidle was good in Oakland but over the last couple of years he has sucked. Also do you guys remember that there were rumors a year or two ago that we were going to trade Rowand to Oakland for Lidle? I am glad that one never happened.:smile:I faintly remember that. Thank God that didn't happen.

JRIG
07-26-2004, 12:37 PM
I don't like Shoney in the pen. He wasn't that good out of the pen last year, and he has not been shy about stating his displeasure in pitching out of the pen.

I would hate to see an unhappy, lame duck pitcher in our pen. Because if he moves to the pen, there is no chance of him returning next year.
But wait, wouldn't that be good news?

Schoney has been much better out of the pen in his career than in the rotation. It's where he belongs.

samram
07-26-2004, 12:37 PM
Apparently Cincinatti wants to give up because I heard last week that neither Lidle nor Wilson was being traded this season. If that's the case, I would try to get Wilson instead.

Soxzilla
07-26-2004, 12:38 PM
i know this is only a report but i think maybe this should quiet those of you who have argued bigger crowds means the sox will spend more money. i have argued forever that crowds don't mean nothing with jerry in charge. also, wouldn't olerud have been the veteran bat off the bench the report is looking for? for only $300,000 we could have had him and if they are looking to spend nearly nothing, tell me a better option.:mad:
Not picking up olerud is a better option than picking him up. Seriously, he is having a terrible year, and we don't NEED another first baseman. That's probably our strongest position.

Paulwny
07-26-2004, 12:38 PM
i know this is only a report but i think maybe this should quiet those of you who have argued bigger crowds means the sox will spend more money. i have argued forever that crowds don't mean nothing with jerry in charge. also, wouldn't olerud have been the veteran bat off the bench the report is looking for? for only $300,000 we could have had him and if they are looking to spend nearly nothing, tell me a better option.:mad:
Maybe KW was in touch with Olerud, we don't know. All indications are that Olerud has family considerations and would prefer to play on the west coast.

Evman5
07-26-2004, 12:43 PM
Maybe KW was in touch with Olerud, we don't know. All indications are that Olerud has family considerations and would prefer to play on the west coast.
IMO Olerud is done. We should not want him. We do not need him. And hopefully We will not get him.

There is nothing left in the tank.

BTW I see the twins are trying to unload Doug Mientkiewicz how funny would it be if we somehow traded for him. I realize this is a stupid thihg to say because they would never trade him to us, but I was just fantasizing.

Aidan
07-26-2004, 12:44 PM
Apparently Cincinatti wants to give up because I heard last week that neither Lidle nor Wilson was being traded this season. If that's the case, I would try to get Wilson instead.I heard that BOTH Paul Wilson and Cory Lidle were going to be shopped before the deadline.
BTW I see the twins are trying to unload Doug Mientkiewicz how funny would it be if we somehow traded for him. I realize this is a stupid thihg to say because they would never trade him to us, but I was just fantasizing.If you're fantasizing about a scrub like Mientkiewicz, you have problems. Would you nut in your pants if we traded for Brian Daubach? :tongue:

JRIG
07-26-2004, 12:47 PM
IMO Olerud is done. We should not want him. We do not need him. And hopefully We will not get him.

There is nothing left in the tank.

BTW I see the twins are trying to unload Doug Mientkiewicz how funny would it be if we somehow traded for him. I realize this is a stupid thihg to say because they would never trade him to us, but I was just fantasizing.
Fantasizing about a guy whose stats this year are worse than the player you say is "done"?

Mientkiewicz: .238/.334/.356
Olerud: .245/.354/.360

Soxzilla
07-26-2004, 12:48 PM
BTW I see the twins are trying to unload Doug Mientkiewicz how funny would it be if we somehow traded for him. I realize this is a stupid thihg to say because they would never trade him to us, but I was just fantasizing.
:KW
"Who?"

Evman5
07-26-2004, 12:48 PM
I heard that BOTH Paul Wilson and Cory Lidle were going to be shopped before the deadline.
If you're fantasizing about a scrub like Mientkiewicz, you have problems. Would you nut in your pants if we traded for Brian Daubach? :tongue:

I don't really want him on our team I just thought with his extreme hatred for us it would be funny if he somehow wound up on our team and felt extremely salty that the Twins traded him away.

samram
07-26-2004, 12:49 PM
I heard that BOTH Paul Wilson and Cory Lidle were going to be shopped before the deadline.
If that's true, then forget Lidle and get Wilson, who I think is much better. He's only making 3.5 this year and is a free agent after the season.

Evman5
07-26-2004, 12:50 PM
I in know way shape or form would actually like to see that sorry excuse for a baseball player on the White SOx.

princek
07-26-2004, 12:57 PM
Lidle Blows!!!! would be a bad message sent in my opinion to the fanbase, your team starts selling out or getting near capacity everygame and your a half game out of first and your deadline move is to go out and get a #5 type pitcher if even that when you have glaring holes elsewhere, that would be a slap in the face to the fans imo.

guillen4life13
07-26-2004, 01:16 PM
sidenote to soxzilla, re: his signature.


Mariotti writes for the sun-times, not the trib.

CWSGuy406
07-26-2004, 01:34 PM
Lidle's numbers this year aren't very good, but his numbers vs. Minny, KC, Detroit, and Cleveland, as well as his numbers pitching at US Cellular, are very good. Take it FWIW.

Mohoney
07-26-2004, 01:34 PM
The only "debacle" yesterday was our lineup looking sick for nearly 4 innings against a B-grade relief pitcher from Detroit's bullpen. That's the reason we lost. You don't expect to win when you only score 2 runs.

If you're looking for a lesser "debacle," consider what Ozzie said about his starting pitcher. Garland was nibbling and apparently doesn't care that his manager is upset with him for nibbling. As someone who watched the game live, I think Garland was damn lucky to only get nailed for 4 runs charged in six innings worked. He wasn't even coming close with a lot of his pitches.

Garland is only 24, but sometimes he acts like he's 19 out there. And as for his post-game comments, sometimes he sounds like a 12 year-old.

That's why I say TRADE HIM! Package Garland with some other pieces for Randy Johnson.

CWSGuy406
07-26-2004, 01:42 PM
i know this is only a report but i think maybe this should quiet those of you who have argued bigger crowds means the sox will spend more money. i have argued forever that crowds don't mean nothing with jerry in charge. also, wouldn't olerud have been the veteran bat off the bench the report is looking for? for only $300,000 we could have had him and if they are looking to spend nearly nothing, tell me a better option.:mad:
I had that feeling at first too, but then again, it is George Offman reporting this. Kenny likes to fly under the radar, and usually the Score is the least reliable place that reports info...

CWSGuy406
07-26-2004, 01:47 PM
(Coming from stats on another board.)

Since 2001:

Lidle in US Cellular-- 1.69 ERA

Lidle vs Clev -- 3-3, 2.23 ERA, Opp BA .172

Lidle vs KC -- 2-1, 3.03 ERA, Opp BA .230

Lidle vs Minn -- 1-3, 3.93 ERA, Opp Ba .246

Lidle vs. Det -- 2-1, 3.96 ERA, Opp BA .225

IlliniSoxFan
07-26-2004, 01:53 PM
(Coming from stats on another board.)

Since 2001:

Lidle in US Cellular-- 1.69 ERA

Lidle vs Clev -- 3-3, 2.23 ERA, Opp BA .172

Lidle vs KC -- 2-1, 3.03 ERA, Opp BA .230

Lidle vs Minn -- 1-3, 3.93 ERA, Opp Ba .246

Lidle vs. Det -- 2-1, 3.96 ERA, Opp BA .225
When was the last time he faced these teams, or pitched in US Cell? Any since being with the Reds? Any this year?

Last year, ELo had a 2.90 ERA. This year, that's not the case. Same deal with Lidle?

longshot7
07-26-2004, 01:55 PM
RERHRBBSO2001OAK 13 6 3.59 29 29 1 0 0 0 188.0 170 84 75 23 47 118 2002OAK 8 10 3.89 31 30 2 2 0 0 192.0 191 90 83 17 39 111 2003TOR 12 15 5.75 31 31 2 0 0 0 192.2 216 133 123 24 60 112


His ERA wasn't even 6. But I don't think this would be that bad of a pickup. He had some good years with Oakland. Maybe we can work with him and get him back to where he used to be.

How am I supposed to read this??

hawkjt
07-26-2004, 01:56 PM
Did you see Lidle pitch against the cubs last week? He has nothing left-believe me. The hapless cubs clubbed him to death. Schoeny is better. Wilson would be a very good pickup. Bullpen is the most pressing need. Time to call it a day Mike jack.

samram
07-26-2004, 01:58 PM
When was the last time he faced these teams, or pitched in US Cell? Any since being with the Reds? Any this year?

Last year, ELo had a 2.90 ERA. This year, that's not the case. Same deal with Lidle?
Well, I don't want Lidle, but he was with Toronto last year, so he probably faced those teams in the recent past, and he probably faced Cleveland this year in the Battle of Ohio, or whatever they call it.

Soxzilla
07-26-2004, 02:05 PM
sidenote to soxzilla, re: his signature.


Mariotti writes for the sun-times, not the trib.
Thanks sorry about that. I don't normally read the acutal newspaper I just flip it over to the sports section and I always seem to find something written by moronatti.:tongue:

The news is too depressing.

Yomarei
07-26-2004, 02:18 PM
Three things according to offman: 1. the sox are not looking to spend a lot of money at the deadline(big surprise!) 2. they are looking for a cheap SP, corey lidle has been the name most brought up 3. they are looking for a bat, probably to come of the bench and add depth.****ing great!

This franchise is at the crossroads, just starting to re-build its fanbase.....And they're looking to weasel their way to WS with Corey Lidles and Ross Gloads instead.

JR/Sox will find a way to **** things up even when he is actually NOT trying.

:angry:

CWSGuy406
07-26-2004, 02:26 PM
****ing great!

This franchise is at the crossroads, just starting to re-build its fanbase.....And they're looking to weasel their way to WS with Corey Lidles and Ross Gloads instead.

JR/Sox will find a way to **** things up even when he is actually NOT trying.

:angry:
Yeah - JR and Kenny must be in this against us, the fans! He must have planned it so the fans got their hopes up when Maggs came back, to have Thomas go down, and then a week later to have Maggs go down again! Haha, fools! :rolleyes:

hold2dibber
07-26-2004, 02:41 PM
****ing great!

This franchise is at the crossroads, just starting to re-build its fanbase.....And they're looking to weasel their way to WS with Corey Lidles and Ross Gloads instead.

JR/Sox will find a way to **** things up even when he is actually NOT trying.

:angry:
Gimme a break. Which SP do you think the Sox should be going after? Johnson? No way he's going to approve a trade here. Forget about it. That leaves a truly weak corps of potential starters to trade for. Most people rate Benson as the best of the rest, but (1) he's not much better than Lidle or Wilson (if at all); and (2) Pittsburgh is apparently insisting on a king's ransom for him. You can't trade without a willing partner. KW already got the best starting pitcher available to him on the market (Garcia) and got a suitable replacement for Frank (Everett). Right now, anyone who complains about "just" adding small, complimentary pieces between now and the deadline needs to get his out of his arse. There's just not much out there.

SoxxoS
07-26-2004, 02:45 PM
I am a huge KW advocate, but the one thing I wish he would have done, if possible, was sign Miguel Batista in the offseason. He would be a great addition to the 3rd/4th spot in the rotation. Plus, he is playoff/World Series tested.

hold2dibber
07-26-2004, 02:47 PM
I am a huge KW advocate, but the one thing I wish he would have done, if possible, was sign Miguel Batista in the offseason. He would be a great addition to the 3rd/4th spot in the rotation. Plus, he is playoff/World Series tested.
I really wanted KW to go after Batista in the offseason. Of course, I also thought Hentgen and/or Ponson would be great pick-ups and that the Sox should trade Konerko for a bag of balls, so I can't really do the old "I told you so" with respect to Batista.

Yomarei
07-26-2004, 03:31 PM
Gimme a break..No, I won't give you a break on this one.

At some point JR has to make a decision whether or not the Sox become a 1st rate organization/major market team....or not. Division is within a leper's reach; crowds and ratings are up; Cubs are a having a surprisingly disappointing season. NOW is the time to go for the KILL - that is if JR even gives a damn at this point.

Sure, the new marketing strategy is nice and further park renovations will provide some boost....But without the team going on a huge streak and then doing some major damage in the playoffs, it won't be enough.

Will you quit with the "Randy Johnson won't come here" makarkey. He sure as hell ain't staying in Arizona, and White Sox are as good an option for him and for Colangelo as it gets for many reasons already discussed. As long as Sox out-bid everybody else, it's possible alright.

And even if he is not coming here....fine. Make a move for Pavano, Leiter, Glavine, etc, etc. Be creative.

And if no ace pitchers are available, THEN set your sights on Beltran or Catalonato, etc.

I could live with Lidle IF Sox were willing to spend a LOT on upgrading the offense. But by the looks of things, they want to do neither. And that is unacceptable.

Brian26
07-26-2004, 03:33 PM
yes but corey lidle is not gonna get the job done as the 5th starter! he is probably worse than sho. his ERA was about 7 last year! i dont know what KW sees in this guy!

KW & friends have been coveting this guy for 3 years.

SoxOnTop
07-26-2004, 03:39 PM
i dont know. we got questions at 3b, 2b, 4th and 5th starter, the bullpen. KW has to do something to address those things
I'm pretty sure the Yanks have questions at 1b, 2b, 4th and 5th starter. Wow, I guess they were built to be just "happy to be in the playoffs" too.

OzzieBall2004
07-26-2004, 03:41 PM
RERHRBBSO2001OAK 13 6 3.59 29 29 1 0 0 0 188.0 170 84 75 23 47 118 2002OAK 8 10 3.89 31 30 2 2 0 0 192.0 191 90 83 17 39 111 2003TOR 12 15 5.75 31 31 2 0 0 0 192.2 216 133 123 24 60 112


His ERA wasn't even 6. But I don't think this would be that bad of a pickup. He had some good years with Oakland. Maybe we can work with him and get him back to where he used to be.

Wasn't even 6???? You say that like 5.75 is respectable. Thats gross. Cory Lidle doesn't do anything for me. I'd just the same stick with the status quo then bring in another ho-hum starter. He hasnt even won a game in a month.

HebrewHammer
07-26-2004, 03:44 PM
I get the same feeling about the Lidle trade that I had about the Todd Ritchie deal, just don't do it, I'd rather add another bat or some bullpen help, basically anyone who isn't Ben Davis or Mike Jackson, anything that leads to these two pus-filled sores off the roster the better.

Yomarei
07-26-2004, 03:49 PM
If you're looking for a lesser "debacle," consider what Ozzie said about his starting pitcher. Garland was nibbling and apparently doesn't care that his manager is upset with him for nibbling. As someone who watched the game live, I think Garland was damn lucky to only get nailed for 4 runs charged in six innings worked. He wasn't even coming close with a lot of his pitches.

.I think it's time to admit that Garland is, um....not very talented.

He doesn't have exceptional arm speed. His release point is erratic, with him bouncing the curveball and telegraphing the change-up half the time. His low-90's fastball is straight and he lacks pinpoint control with it. And to top that all off, he lacks a bulldog's mentality and totally unravels when things don't go his way.

The only reason why he doesn't flat-out SUCK is because of that quality sinker that gets him out of jams. But as everyone knows, you CANNOT live and die with inducing a DP; sooner or later, all those baserunners and all those balls put into play are gonna hurt you BIG-TIME.

If Garland wasn't 6'6'', he wouldn't even be in the bigs. Sure, as a #4-5 starter, he is more than capable, but if THIS is the guy Sox are pinning their future on, if THIS is the guy we want starting in Game 3 of ALDS.....we're in trouble.

Win1ForMe
07-26-2004, 03:50 PM
Wow. That's a rather depressing report. Attendance seems to finally be on the upswing and Reinsdorf wants to go on the cheap again. What happened with all that "KW finally has money to spend at the deadline" talk we've heard so much about? Truly sad...

PS - Corey Lidle sucks. Why bother?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-26-2004, 03:57 PM
I think it's time to admit that Garland is, um....not very talented.... The only reason why he doesn't flat-out SUCK is because of that quality sinker that gets him out of jams. .... If Garland wasn't 6'6'', he wouldn't even be in the bigs. Sure, as a #4-5 starter, he is more than capable, but if THIS is the guy Sox are pinning their future on, if THIS is the guy we want starting in Game 3 of ALDS.....we're in trouble.
He's still only 24, so he's worth holding onto even if we have to pound lumps into his hard-as-a-rock skull as though he were an immature teenager.

He'll grow up. And he is still infinitely more valuable than the piece of **** we traded to the Flubbies to get him, Matt Karchner.

Isn't that right, Y-me?

Win1ForMe
07-26-2004, 04:20 PM
He's still only 24, so he's worth holding onto even if we have to pound lumps into his hard-as-a-rock skull as though he were an immature teenager.
I posted this last week; next year Garland will probably make close to $5 M in arbitration. Now, given that we're on a mid-market payroll, is it worth holding on to a .500 pitcher with a 4.50 ERA? Think about it, if he were just a free agent and asked for that money, there's no way the Sox would give him that type of offer. It just wouldn't make financial sense.

kittle42
07-26-2004, 04:35 PM
Yeah - cuz it was built with the expectation that after both the Garcia trade and the Everett trade, Ordonez and Thomas would end up being shelved, possibly for the entire season.

That's nonsense Kittle. This team was not built "happy to make the playoffs" and you know it.
It will turn out that way if we don't get yet another stick.

SoxxoS
07-26-2004, 04:39 PM
I posted this last week; next year Garland will probably make close to $5 M in arbitration. Now, given that we're on a mid-market payroll, is it worth holding on to a .500 pitcher with a 4.50 ERA? Think about it, if he were just a free agent and asked for that money, there's no way the Sox would give him that type of offer. It just wouldn't make financial sense.
What makes you think he is going to get 5 million...the arbitrators see the same numbers as we do.

jeremyb1
07-26-2004, 04:44 PM
He doesn't have exceptional arm speed. His release point is erratic, with him bouncing the curveball and telegraphing the change-up half the time. His low-90's fastball is straight and he lacks pinpoint control with it. And to top that all off, he lacks a bulldog's mentality and totally unravels when things don't go his way.

Garland's an above average starter any way you cut it. His ERA is above the league average, his support neutral won loss record is above .500, he's 2 wins above replacement level two thirds of the way through the season. He's certainly not perfect and it can be frustrating he doesn't pitch better but he's still quite young and therefore has room for improvement. He's certainly a bargain at 2 million and I disagree with the notion that he'll earn five million in arbitration next season. Guys don't more than double their earnings by more or less duplicating their previous season.

Furthermore, I think parts of your scouting report are laughably inaccurate. Garland's fastball is straight? That's his best pitch and the one he throws 80% of the time. It's a sinker that like most sinkers breaks across and down as though it's a cutter. He routinely starts the pitch on the outside or inside corner so that it breaks back over the plate. His changeup is not a good pitch but while it may sometimes be inconsisent, he gets more swings and misses with his knuckle curve than any other pitch. It's a pretty solid offering.

Brian26
07-26-2004, 04:47 PM
****ing great!

This franchise is at the crossroads, just starting to re-build its fanbase.....And they're looking to weasel their way to WS with Corey Lidles and Ross Gloads instead.

JR/Sox will find a way to **** things up even when he is actually NOT trying.

:angry:

What an ignorant post. They've ALREADY made two of the three most prolific moves of the season by acquiring Everett and Garcia. What the hell do you expect?

Win1ForMe
07-26-2004, 04:54 PM
He's certainly a bargain at 2 million and I disagree with the notion that he'll earn five million in arbitration next season. Guys don't more than double their earnings by more or less duplicating their previous season.
That's not true at all. Freddy Garcia declined in production from 2001 to 2002 yet received a sizeable increase in salary (IIRC, from $3M to $7M). He was in the same position as Garland - 2nd year arbitration eligible.

pearso66
07-26-2004, 04:56 PM
What an ignorant post. They've ALREADY made two of the three most prolific moves of the season by acquiring Everett and Garcia. What the hell do you expect?
He expects us to do whatever possible to get Randy Johnson. If we are doing anything, May I suggest, Konerko, Valentin, Crede, Lee and Shingo for RJ. We'll win for sure, and there is no way anyone can top that.

Win1ForMe
07-26-2004, 04:58 PM
What an ignorant post. They've ALREADY made two of the three most prolific moves of the season by acquiring Everett and Garcia. What the hell do you expect?
I think Yomarei is trying to point out that in both cases the other team ended up assuming the player's remaining salary for the year. I thought the point of this was to allow us to add another piece at the deadline.

hold2dibber
07-26-2004, 05:08 PM
No, I won't give you a break on this one.

At some point JR has to make a decision whether or not the Sox become a 1st rate organization/major market team....or not. Division is within a leper's reach; crowds and ratings are up; Cubs are a having a surprisingly disappointing season. NOW is the time to go for the KILL - that is if JR even gives a damn at this point.
I completely agree - but the fact is, they are going for the kill; they've made two of the biggest trades already, acquiring the best starting pitcher on the market (other than Johnson) and a proven run producing bat.


Will you quit with the "Randy Johnson won't come here" makarkey. He sure as hell ain't staying in Arizona, and White Sox are as good an option for him and for Colangelo as it gets for many reasons already discussed. As long as Sox out-bid everybody else, it's possible alright.
Well, I admit I haven't personally talked to Randy Johnson about the situation, but I'm guessing you haven't either. The fact is, virtually every single media report on the situation suggests that he only wants to go to a team that is a virtual lock for the post season. You have to admit that the South Side hasn't exactly been the preferred destination for big time free agents over the years (with a few exceptions, I'll admit). The point is, there is little reason to believe that Johnson would waive his no trade to come here, and lots of reasons to believe he wouldn't. More importantly, however, to your point, is the fact that many outlets have reported (repeatedly) than KW has inquired about Johnson and has let it be known that it Johnson's available, the Sox are a player. So in the unlikely (IMHO) event that Johnson would be amenable to coming here, it sure sounds like KW would go for broke trying to get him here.

And even if he is not coming here....fine. Make a move for Pavano, Leiter, Glavine, etc, etc. Be creative.

And if no ace pitchers are available, THEN set your sights on Beltran or Catalonato, etc.
Pavano, Leiter, Glavine, Catalonato, Beltran, those guys would all be great - but I think it is highly unlikely that any of those guys are available. Hell, why don't you through Schilling and A-Rod in there, they'd be great to have! Again, the point is that you can only trade if there's a willing partner.

I could live with Lidle IF Sox were willing to spend a LOT on upgrading the offense. But by the looks of things, they want to do neither. And that is unacceptable.
From the looks of things, the Sox have substantially upgraded their starting staff and their line-up already this trading season. They also went for broke last year, acquiring two bats and bullpen reinforcements. I'm with you, I'd love to see them add more. But to jump to the conclusion that they're not trying or are done trying is preposterous. How about we wait and see (1) who the Sox actually pick up; and (2) who actually gets traded/is available, before we decide that they're half-assing it? If the Sox trade for Lidle but it turns out they could have had Pavano, I'd be pissed. But to just say "we should have made great trades and gotten better" is unrealistic and doesn't take the other half of the equation (i.e., the other teams) into consideration at all.

habibharu
07-26-2004, 05:32 PM
That's why I say TRADE HIM! Package Garland with some other pieces for Randy Johnson. RJ doesnt want to come here

WHarris13
07-26-2004, 05:33 PM
JMO but who knows.

You never know what to expect from KW he always flies under the radar.
Just beacuse Offman reported this doesn't mean it's true.
It's not like KW himself saying we are after Lidle and we are gonna go cheap.

habibharu
07-26-2004, 05:33 PM
What an ignorant post. They've ALREADY made two of the three most prolific moves of the season by acquiring Everett and Garcia. What the hell do you expect? getting everret is not a prolific move.

habibharu
07-26-2004, 05:35 PM
I'm pretty sure the Yanks have questions at 1b, 2b, 4th and 5th starter. Wow, I guess they were built to be just "happy to be in the playoffs" too. uh, no because the yanks have like 15 more wins than us!

MisterB
07-26-2004, 05:44 PM
That's not true at all. Freddy Garcia declined in production from 2001 to 2002 yet received a sizeable increase in salary (IIRC, from $3M to $7M). He was in the same position as Garland - 2nd year arbitration eligible.

---

I think Yomarei is trying to point out that in both cases the other team ended up assuming the player's remaining salary for the year. I thought the point of this was to allow us to add another piece at the deadline.1) Garcia also had 3 seasons with 16+ wins under his belt when he got that, Garland's never broken .500. Even an arbitrator can see they're nowhere near the same quality.

2) The Sox are paying full price for Garcia (@ $3M+). Seattle paid for Ben Davis.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-26-2004, 05:46 PM
I think Yomarei is trying to point out that in both cases the other team ended up assuming the player's remaining salary for the year. I thought the point of this was to allow us to add another piece at the deadline.Actually Yomarei's point was to make unsubstantiated claims, name call, and troll the board.

Don't worry. It won't happen again.

:smokin:

pearso66
07-26-2004, 08:31 PM
uh, no because the yanks have like 15 more wins than us!
He was stating that they have holes to, so in the same aspect as was stated because we have holes, we are only playing to get into the post season. It had nothin to do with our record.

fuzzy_patters
07-27-2004, 12:23 AM
This whole Corey Lidle thing cannot be true. The Cincinatti Reds are playing decent baseball and have a solid shot at the Wild Card. I think they are more likely looking to add players rather than subtract. This does not make much sense. Let's not get our panties in a bunch over a report from WSuCkieR until we have a more reliable source.

gosox41
07-27-2004, 09:05 AM
KW & friends have been coveting this guy for 3 years.
Pretty scary. Didn't they covet Schoenweis for 3 years also? I'm so glad some deals don't actually get done by KW. If it were up to him we'd have Lidle and Schoenweis in the rotation, Erstad as our CF, no Frank Thomas, Bartolo Colon to a 4 year contracr and no Magglio.



Bob

BearSox
07-27-2004, 06:34 PM
To those whom it may concern, Lidle is pitching right now against the Cardinals. If he is being coveted by the Sox this would be a good game to gauge hime against top teams. I'll be watching on mlbtv up to the sox game.